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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 12:16 AM
Original message
Architects plan tunnel to free landlocked Bolivia
Source: Financial Times

Architects plan tunnel to free landlocked Bolivia
By Jude Webber in Buenos Aires and Naomi Mapstone in Lima

Published: May 15 2009 03:00 | Last updated: May 15 2009 03:00

Three Chilean architects say they have come up with a way to restore Bolivia's lamented access to the Pacific Ocean without treading on Chile's toes - a 150km tunnel running underneath the Peru-Chile border and ending at an artificial island built with waste from the tunnel about half a mile offshore.

Landlocked Bolivia has been lamenting the loss of its Pacific Ocean coast since a war with Chile 130 years ago and the issue remains fiercely contested today. As well as blocking diplomatic relations between the two nations, it is hampering the development of Pacific markets for Bolivia's natural gas and mineral wealth. However, the Chilean architects say they have now come up with a way to restore Bolivia's maritime access without treading on Chile's toes.

~snip~
The tunnel would be one of the longest in the world, but Mr Eliash says it would be technically less demanding than the Channel tunnel linking England and France, as it would have only a short sub-sea stretch. Although Chile and Peru are highly seismic, he says tunnels have been successfully constructed in equally earthquake-prone Japan.

~snip~
Under the architects' proposal, the island - which, like the tunnel, would be Bolivian territory - would lie at the apex of the triangle. The waters in dispute would become international, no country would lose territory, and time and money would be saved dropping litigation.



Read more: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/fbfe4d14-40e7-11de-8f18-00144feabdc0.html?nclick_check=1
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 12:31 AM
Response to Original message
1. I lived around that area and quite honestly I'm at a loss as to why
the Bolivians would want this. They have always had free access across the borders to visit relatives and find work in Chile. Trains travel from the coast to La Paz with no problem delivering people and goods. The Bolivians have always been upset that they lost their coast in the War of the Americas, so their navy (yes, Bolivia has a navy) haven't had a port since then. I think maybe some diplomacy and port access between the Bolivian government and the Chilean government might be a better solution to tunnels. Although, maybe access to the ingredients of dynamite from the Atacama Desert and cheap labor could make the tunnel project into something that creates wealth for the already wealthy and although it creates jobs...eh, it still keeps the indigenous people poor even though employed.
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DCKit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 01:13 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. I think it's simply the best idea they've come up with to date...
on how to dispose of all that pesky gas, oil and mineral wealth.

Dog knows they can't spend it on infrastructure, education, health care or other quality of life issues within Bolivia - it's rightful owners are the already wealthy, not so brown people of European descent.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 01:31 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. LOL! You know it!
Maybe Morales will try a different approach. I hope he does.
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DCKit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 02:34 AM
Response to Reply #5
10. Eh, Morales is not going to fall for this pie-in-the-sky shit.
If he even gave a hint of thinking seriously about it, Hugo (and the other lefties) would kick his ass right back in line. They're becoming a united front against colonialism, and a huge, wasteful, incredibly expensive public works project just reeks of a colonial agenda.

From tea, slaves, bananas, spices, timber, silk and opium to oil, gas and mineral exploitation to the World Bank, USAID and the IMF directing huge publics works projects that benefit the contractors and those who hold the paper while strangling the people and any chance of democracy. Yeah, that's progress for humanity. The wealthy minority, anyway.

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dbmk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 03:34 AM
Response to Reply #4
11. In all fairness
Edited on Fri May-15-09 03:34 AM by dbmk
As the story states, it is a problem for them to turn the wealth of possession of those goods into financial wealth, given the lack of a coastline.

Financial wealth that might or might not be turned into the things you suggest, ofc.
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DCKit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #11
22. They can trade with their neighbors and still receive a fair price.
The cost to import gas, oil and minerals from overseas will cost more for everyone involved, not to mention the risk of being held economically hostage. The cost of pipelines to neighboring countries would be an infinitesimal fraction of what a company like Bechtel - as famous for their cost over-runs and "unexpected" costs as for their high profile projects - would charge to build a tunnel. Further, removing the influence of predatory investors, the World Bank, the IMF, USAID as well as all the other NGO parasites and vultures can't be a bad thing. Why do you think the leaders all got together and formed their own regional economic support system? They KNOW what these agencies are about.

My argument is that this project would eat up innumerable years of profit from the sale of these products, with the only beneficiaries being the companies building and financing the project. The people of Bolivia can neither afford nor do they deserve the crushing national debt this project would generate.

Besides, if anything, South and Central American countries need to learn to share and cooperate better if they are to win against the great Satan to the north. It's long past time they kicked our empire building, colonial asses to the curb and showed us all what it means to be a good neighbor.
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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 05:29 AM
Response to Reply #1
14. Did you see that CBS 60 Minutes segment about lithium mining in Bolivia?
It has nothing to do with this tunnel, but you would have found it interesting. Lithium can be used in batteries in electric cars. Morales only wants the lithium extraction from the desert if it aids the people.
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Johnyawl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 12:37 AM
Response to Original message
2. Jesus H Christ!

It'd be so much simpler, and cheaper to just cede part of the coast back to Bolivia! Chili has so much of it's national pride wrapped around a barren piece of coast, they can't even give PART of it back??!! For god's sake, they could give Bolivia part of the land they took from Peru!
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 12:59 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. That's pretty ignorant of you to say that.
Chile is a country not a pepper (chili) to begin with. That coast is very important to the fishermen who make their living there and they and their decedents haven't changed that since before the Spaniards arrived and created Bolivia and Chile and then they had wars of independence and territorial wars etc.. The fishermen still fished. The ports that are controlled by Chile still import and export goods and particularly ores and minerals, by rail to and from Bolivia. Considering how rich that barren desert is, there is no chance of Chile giving anything back, however, if it's just coast access that the Bolivians want, it can be negotiated for.
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rabs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 01:36 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. Bolivia/Peru relations have taken a dramatic turn this week


Yesterday Evo Morales said Bolivia was "seriously analyzing" breaking diplomatic relations with Lima.

The spark was this week's granting of political asylum by Alan Garcia's government to three former Bolivian ministers who have been ordered to stand trial in La Paz for a massacre during the Sanchez de Lozada presidency in 2003. The three ministers bugged out to Peru earlier this month. Bolivia is also seeking the extradition of Sanchez de Lozada, who is safely living in the Washington, D.C. area.

But Bolivia's relations with Peru have been festering for several months over the matter of an outlet to the Pacific. Morales and Michelle Bachelet met early this year and for the first time since the War of the Pacific (1879) were making progress to grant Bolivia an outlet to the Pacific.

But several weeks ago, Garcia's government presented a demand at the World Court in The Hague against Chile, seeking several thousand square kilometers that had once belonged to Peru. Bolivia's outlet is in the same general area that Peru is demanding.

Morales was incensed that Garcia had thrown a monkey wrench into Bolivia's negotations with Santiago and this political asylum business has made matters much worse.

So that is where things stand now.

(Cleita, Tengo ganas de comer una empanada de pino con un vinito tinto. :-)



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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 02:16 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. Yo quiero un pastel de choclo con un vinito tambien.
Edited on Fri May-15-09 02:24 AM by Cleita
:-)Muchas gracias.
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KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #8
23. !Ahora yo tengo hambre!
:hi:
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Hola!
:hi:
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KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. ?Que tal?
:hi:
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #6
21. Since Morales is one of the most popular leaders in S/A and Garcia one of the least popular,
and since leftists now dominate trade organizations, the new S/A common market, UNASUR, and all economic and political negotiations, I expect Morales to win both points: access to the sea for Bolivia and eventual extradition of the Lozada ministers (accused of being responsible for the massacre) from Peru back to Bolivia.

Alan Garcia, president of Peru, is a Bush crony, and a very corrupt advocate of the very unpopular U.S./Peru "free trade" agreement. A leftist, Ollanta Humala, coming of nowhere, nearly beat him in the last election, and probably will beat him in the next election. Under Garcia, Peru has been going the way of Venezuela prior to Chavez--that is, creation of a rich, privileged, corrupt, urban elite, to the extreme detriment of the rest of the country and of good government policy. The country is roiled with protests and strikes, and it is no surprise at all, with Garcia as president, that killers of protesters and strikers from Bolivia are welcome in Peru, just as it is no surprise that Lozada himself, the one ultimately responsible for the the massacre in Bolivia, gets safe haven in the U.S., where we are unable to prosecute the Bushwhack principles for a list of the gravest "high crimes and misdemeanors" ever committed by a U.S. regime--including the slaughter of a hundred thousand innocent Iraqis to steal their oil, the torture of prisoners, massive domestic spying and massive theft of billions and billions of dollars from our federal coffers.

U.S. complicity in violent oppression of the poor in South America could not be clearer in the sorts of asylums that our government grants. Miama is full of "Lozadas." The question is, will this wrongful, anti-democratic U.S. policy continue under Obama, whose interests will the Obama administration be serving in South America, as to both overt and covert policy, and whether South American democracy can survive Obama policy, if it is bad policy, as has always been the case in U.S. history with very few exceptions (FDR, JFK)?

Access to the sea for Bolivia is a critically important issue for the success of the new, cooperative, leftist leadership of South America. They have strongly resisted U.S. "divide and conquer" tactics thus far, over the last half decade or so. This is a revolutionary development all by itself. Issues like this have always been to the advantage of U.S. global corporate predators, who control our government policy and activities, and have successfully used issues like this to stir up trouble, weaken and destabilize countries and impose an exploitative agenda, by force or by guile. Michele Batchelet, president of Chile--an increasingly strong leftist--has made settlement of this Chile/Bolivia dispute a high priority. She was also perhaps the most important player in South American resistance to the U.S./Bushwhack funded and organized white separatist riots and murders, and coup attempt, in Bolivia, this last September. The presidents of Brazil and Argentina were also important to that successful effort, but Batchelet was key. She has been more a center-leftist than leftist, and fell prey to some Bushwhack arm-twisting back when they were furiously trying to topple Chavez, but she has come a long way especially in understanding and promoting the sovereignty of Latin American countries, no doubt because of her personal history as a victim of the U.S.-imposed Pinochet regime in Chile. When she called the first formal meeting of UNASUR, to deal with the Bushwhack plot in Bolivia, she took the country representatives on a tour of the government's Pinochet torture museum, as a reminder of what happens when South American leaders permit such interference. She is a peacemaker and a brilliant negotiator. (She even got Colombia to vote with the majority on the Bolivia issue, to make it unanimous--a rather amazing diplomatic success.) She is determined to settle this issue, and to grant Bolivia access to the sea.

Bolivian access to the sea is not a stand-alone issue. It is combined with Brazil's, Argentina's and Venezuela's plan for a new highway from Brazil's Atlantic coast, through Bolivia, to the Pacific, which will turn Bolivia into a major trade route for the "Global South" (Africa, South America, Asia/Pacific). Whether it's done with a tunnel, ceding of land or sharing of land, or some other way, doesn't really matter, politically--but of course has issues of expense, danger (esp. a tunnel), and environmental impacts. Peru is very isolated in this situation, under Garcia, who may be taking orders from Clinton/Obama, to disrupt negotiations. I cannot say. That is traditionally what the U.S. has done, and it certainly would be what the Bushwhacks would do. Disrupt, destroy, destabilize, "divide and conquer" in the interests of the rich and the corporate. It is notable that Peru, under Garcia, was the ONLY member of UNASUR who did NOT participate in the emergency meeting of UNASUR that Batchelet called to support Morales' government when it was under attack by the Bushwhacks. That was clearly on orders from "the Empire." But that was then (September '08). Who or what is prompting Garcia now, to throw a 'monkey wrench' into this important diplomatic/economic effort? Again, I really don't know. Obama policy in Latin America is still very hard to read. I still hope, and have some faith, that Obama means well. But it's become increasingly clear that his hands are tied in many respects, as to restoring democracy here, and putting our government back into the service of our people, as well as undoing Bushwhack horrors around the world and restoring the rule of national and international law. And I would have to say that it would not surprise me to find out the U.S. is trying to disrupt this important diplomatic effort among the leftist leaders of South America to work together to solve this and other problems.
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Bacchus39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 07:41 AM
Response to Reply #3
16. actually Chile is a pepper and a country, chili is a more of a stew
that contains chile peppers.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 02:02 AM
Response to Reply #2
7. Oh, stop making sense!!! Hell, even if Chile just leased a road and a sea outlet
to Bolivia, that would do the trick without building a stupid tunnel. They could make some money AND help out a neighbor!
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 02:21 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. That would be nice. Which road do you have in mind?
Edited on Fri May-15-09 02:22 AM by Cleita
Perhaps it's the one that would have to be built, BECAUSE IN THE ATACAMA DESERT THERE IS NO ROAD THAT IS ANYTHING LIKE OUR HWYS THAT CAN TRANSPORT SEMI TYPE TRUCKS! I think that it's possible that such highways could probably built much more cheaply than a ridiculous tunnel.

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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #9
18. Of course it would have to be built. But this could be a moneymaker for both nations.
If they can build roads in the Iranian desert that connect the major cities (the Germans did most of that a long, long, time ago--they did a good job, too) then they can certainly do it in South America. It would be much, much cheaper to do than building a tunnel--even if they built the best possible road (the gold standard is a road at least two tank-lengths wide in each direction).

Tunnels take years, they require ventilation, they're dangerous if they're not maintained religiously, and if you get a vehicle on fire in them, it can spell BIG TROUBLE for every vehicle in the tunnel if you don't have your bomberos standing by to take care of business immediately.
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AlphaCentauri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #7
19. The three countries can build a highway along the border of Chile and Peru
and share the cost, Bolivia can sing a lease agreement or it can work just like the Panama Canal.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. That's probably the best bet. They can put old hurts behind them, and they can all make
some money.
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 05:00 AM
Response to Original message
12. All 3 countries are associate members of Mercosur
I really would have thought a bit of diplomatic negotiation on tariffs, customs and so on would be simpler, and cheaper.
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sledgehammer Donating Member (774 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 05:16 AM
Response to Original message
13. The Czechs planned to do something similar back in the 1970s
I wonder if it's just a coincidence that this news item was released a couple of days ago. Maybe it inspired the Bolivians:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8047128.stm
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 07:07 AM
Response to Original message
15. LOL idiotic! Never happen.
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Bacchus39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 07:43 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. correct!, n.t
l
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