Michael Vick Leaves U.S. Federal Prison for Home Confinement

[Scurrilous]

Source: Bloomberg

<snip>

"Michael Vick was released from a federal prison and will spend much of the next two months under home confinement in Virginia as the former National Football League quarterback completes a 23-month sentence for helping to run a dogfighting ring.

Vick, 28, was released from the prison in Leavenworth, Kansas, today, according to the U.S. Federal Bureau of Prisons Web site.

Vick will wear an electronic monitoring device at his home in Hampton, Virginia, until his time in federal custody ends in July. He’ll be permitted to leave home detention for a $10-an- hour construction job and other court-approved events.

Vick was sentenced in December 2007 after pleading guilty to conspiracy charges related to an interstate dogfighting ring."

Read more: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601079&sid=aM1EwsR_Ci3Y&refer=home

[hlthe2b]

1. F_k him... He's shown no true remorse

Another spoiled celebrity sociopath IMO

[WillParkinson]

3. And yet...

People want him back in the game.

Never mind what he did to those poor dogs. People at work were saying he deserved another chance. I said he deserved as much a chance as all the dogs he killed.

I'm not real popular at work. :-)

[Hepburn]

10. Hey, you are popular with me!

I feel the same way. Let the SOB sweep up soiled cages in an Animal Rehab.

Fuck him.

[kirby]

4. He did his time...

He broke the law and did his time. It is time for him to start fresh.

[joeybee12]

6. No, he needs a lot of public mea culpas...the punishment probably

should have been more severe, but the law's the law...what he did was totally reprehensible.

[BonnieJW]

13. No.

He should never be forgiven for what he did. It was inhumane. An animal would not have done what he did. I hope his life resembles that of OJ Simpson. Wandering around trying to find anyone who will accept him and failing. I hope his life is spent in misery.

[qazplm]

31. it's one thing to think he needs more time

but quite another to wish him misery for the rest of his life. That's just completely ridiculous.

[WillParkinson]

15. No.

He served time for interstate crimes for running the dog fighting ring. He did not serve time for the lives of the animals he cruelly took.

If the man wants to make amends, great. But just because he served time for a crime related to what he did does not mean he gets a fresh start.

[Winterblues]

7. Just think if he would have only tortured Muslims instead he would not be there.

:shrug: Get dogs to fight for money and go to jail for years, Torture human beings and skip off into the sunset counting your wealth..

[Arkana]

63. Has the guy even spoken since he entered prison?

And besides--there's not a team in the NFL that would want the media circus that comes with Vick.

Still, the Bills were dumb enough to sign T.O., so I don't know...

[roody]

2. I hope he reads about the rehabilitation of many of his dogs.

Some are now spoiled rotten and dearly loved.

[able1]

5. Okay to shoot Bambi?

What's the difference between a hunter shooting/killing an animal and "running a dogfighting ring?"

[Akoto]

12. Well, if you must honestly know the difference ...

A good hunter will shoot a deer the minimum number of times necessary to end the animal's life. There is no deliberately prolonged mutilation, suffering, or torture. Hopefully, the hunter will then use the meat to feed himself and/or his family (my aunt hunts once for the winter and it feeds her for some time). Even among people who hunt for sport, I'd bet that 99% of the time, the act is not so twisted as what was witnessed in this case.

Running a dogfighting ring involves brutalizing and traumatizing dogs. They are conditioned to tear each other to shreds as a matter of survival, all for the enjoyment of their keepers. Most of them are kept in deplorable conditions on top of the treatment. The ones who don't shape up to be savage enough are killed (often in very cruel ways, see Vick) or used as bait for other dogs.

There's your difference.

[superduperfarleft]

14. Dogs are cuter and they don't taste as good. n/t

[Rebubula]

35. Well...

...I think that you know the answer to that and are just being obtuse.

Anyway...I do not think that it is OK to kill Bambi either...

[superduperfarleft]

45. I don't think he/she is being obtuse, I think you're ducking the issue he/she raised.

If I may speak for the OP of this subthread, though, I think the point of that post was to ask those of you who do think it's different to clarify exactly why you think so. Why is it okay to employ people who make a living butchering animals in all kinds of cruel ways (you can't say a slaughterhouse is a nice place to be) because we like to eat them, and yet Vick is practically second only to Hitler for doing pretty much the same thing?

I would say it's a result of the moral schizophrenia we as a society have regarding animals, some being "food" and some (usually the cute ones) being "pets" and all that, but I'd prefer to let you speak for yourself.

[mitchum]

57. Do you know that you are defending a dead man?

That dear poster is dearly departed

[superduperfarleft]

58. I don't care. Doesn't make his point any less valid. n/t

[mitchum]

70. Doesn't make his point any less hysterical

There: I fixed it for you

[superduperfarleft]

98. Hurr durr durr durr. n/t

[mitchum]

56. Because Bambi is a...cartoon?

Disingenuous meets disingenuous. See how that works?

[Arkana]

64. Hunting for sport isn't torture.

You shoot the animal the absolute minimum number of times to kill it and you don't shoot more than you'll eat.

And you're a jackass.

[Blue_Tires]

8. hopefully he gets a second chance

and hopefully there will be this kind of collective outrage whenever a pro or college athlete: 1. fathers 7 kids and doesn't pay child support 2. kills someone drunk driving 3. runs a drug-dealing ring 4. rapes/beats women 5. commits assorted general fuckwittery....

[WillParkinson]

16. A second chance to what?

Destroy more lives?

BTW, yes, we can be outraged at more than one thing.

Would you be asking for a second chance for someone who did most of the things you have listed?

[Blue_Tires]

21. the point i was trying to make is everyone

who has done the above things have gotten second chances...

[cindyfaulkner]

17. I hope he gets no chance

he doesn't deserve it. I have had two dogs whom I love dearly. One was a Rottweiler who lived 12 wonderful years. He was my pal and has been gone three years and I miss him every day. One is a rescue Pit Bull Terrier who is a silly little goof ball. I look(ed) in those eyes everyday and think"how could someone not love somebody back who only wants love and kindness in return?" Mr. Vick can rot for all I care.

[Blue_Tires]

24. one of the things I really wish happened

when this all started was that the general public would start kicking over rocks and paying more attention to how widespread a problem this is in many communities...Dogfighting is a HUGE underground industry in almost every state involving our friends and neighbors, pillars of the community, and yes, other pro athletes...I absolve Vick of nothing (but I do think he deserves the second chance other perps of more ghastly crimes get), but I think it is foolish to make him the lightning rod, thinking that continuing to punish him while the industry skates is counterproductive...just imo

[Hepburn]

9. Hope his probation officer looks like this:

Good, doggie...go get 'em!

[LanternWaste]

11. Hopefully he'll never play the game again...

Hopefully he'll never play the game again. Hopefully he'll wind up flipping burgers, or as a register jockey at the local Quicky-Mart, or-- relegated to a realty series on television.

That should be the best of his second chance-- damnable shame many of the dogs never received shot at a a second chance like he's getting.

[truebrit71]

23. He will. I guarantee it..don't you think some shit NFL team wouldn't pick him up?

They will be falling all over themselves to pick him up (all on the QT of course...)

[LanternWaste]

25. I don't think he will...

I don't think he will. I think that slowly, the NFL is learning to balance PR vs. "must-have" players.

[Renew Deal]

29. He will play in the NFL again.

And he will play pro-ball this year.

[WriteDown]

27. I take it you've never heard of...

Al Davis or Jerry Jones?

[LanternWaste]

38. I believe the NFL is beginning...

Yes. I've heard of them. And others that would suit your position. However, I believe the NFL is beginning to take the PR game more seriously than it had in the past.

Thank you for your opinions. Rest assured I will allow them all the consideration they are due.

[WriteDown]

46. I'm curious...

What are my opinions? :shrug:

[Ishoutandscream2]

73. Possibly Al Davis, but I doubt Jerry. Don't count out Lil Danny Snyder

I could see him doing this.

[hamsterjill]

49. Agree totally

His "second chance" is the fact that he doesn't have to spend the rest of his life in prison. That's what he's earned by serving his time. He's earned the right to be out of prison. Nothing more.

Let him flip burgers...earn an honest day's pay. He's no better than anyone else who needs to do that for a living.

[liberal N proud]

18. Did anyone warn the dogs in his neighborhood?

[WillParkinson]

19. The worst thing about all this....

The dogs would probably forgive him.

They're just better than I am, I guess. I honestly hope from this day forward his life is a living hell, mostly of his own making.

[Hepburn]

20. Amen...n/t

[truebrit71]

22. ..to spend the next 10 years working in an animal rescue shelter? No? Well I'm sure he learned his..

...lesson in the joint...:sarcasm: :eyes:

[Oregone]

26. Poor guy. Confined in his home. He needs something to keep him company

Like a friend. Or a best friend. Something that can be there with him always, cuddle with him. Hmmm, just can't put my finger on it.

[jberryhill]

30. Had the same thought here /nt

[Hepburn]

32. Hmmmmmmmmmm.....

....looks like this would be a good pet:



It even opens to the door to go in and out! :hi:

[Oregone]

37. I wouldn't advocate taking that out of nature though

Perhaps we should look for abused pets at shelters that need good homes

[Hepburn]

39. I would not want that animal abuser within 10 miles of ANYTHING...

...that does not have a ton of nasty teeth.

Would you allow that POS to babysit or tend to YOUR pets???

:scared:

[Oregone]

41. My pets, being cats, are totally lovable

No one, except my clumsy daughter, would bring them harm, despite how terrible the person is.

[Hepburn]

42. Huh?

I am not sure what you are saying here ~~ but it came across like it is OK to abuse unlovable pets. I am sure you did not mean that, right?

:hi:

[Oregone]

43. No, not what I meant

Rather, my pets, being cats, are just so lovable that the most abusive abuser couldn't bear to harm them. So, ya know, even Hitler would be a valid pet sitter. Thats all. I don't fear them being in discomfort from monsters

[Hepburn]

44. OK....

...I thought I just was not understanding!

Same for Maggie, my Scottie....but only on some days and those are the days she is in charge.

:hi:

[Arkana]

65. Well, I won't be sleeping tonight.

Goddamn alligators can open doors now.

[rvablue]

48. I get your sarcasm, but this actually brings up a good point that I'm not sure about.

At his sentencing, was he barred from every owning a dog ever again?

I certainly hope so -- and I hope that it would extend to all animals.

[Oregone]

52. I don't know how I feel about that...

You know, for whatever reason, he saw dogs as objects for entertainment (entertainment as gruesome as bull fighting, which remains popular and acceptable in Spain). He could not have fully seen them as creatures with feelings.

But if anything, this entire ordeal may have exposed him to views that contradict these core notions. And he may of recollected all the positive experiences he may have had with animals and their feelings.

If he has reached some point (big "if"), he could be a huge advocate for animal rights, you know, in a national campaign. People do change, you know.

[rvablue]

53. I wouldn't want any dog near this man for quite a while and until he proves himself.

Because while what you wrote might have some merit, there is a flip to all of this.

He also might harbor resentment towards dogs (no matter what he says publicly) that even he himself does not fully realize for "having put him in prison." (not quoting him, putting it in quotes to emphasize that it's an idea and not necessarily a fact)

What happens then when he gets frustrated or mad or thwarted in his efforts to restore his past life and money and fame and comes home to an innocent doggie that might have chewed a shoe that day?

I shudder to think about it. He needs to do A LOT, and I'm not sure what would satisfy me personally, before he is let anywhere near another animal, never mind being the primary care giver and protector of one.

I just saw one of the rehabbed dogs on CNN the other night and it was sweet and gentle as could be. The idea that Vick could ever get his hands on that dog again disgusts me and if my feelings apply to that poor dog, then it should apply to ALL dogs.

[Critters2]

59. I think he's incapable of empathizing with any living creature.

Being in prison isn't likely to have changed that.

[Oregone]

62. Oh BS. I bet he had a pet Rat to keep him company!

:)

Yeah, prisons aren't great at reforming people. Thats why we need to keep our Al Queda detainees out of prison. How can we ever help these people if we lock them up with all those terrible criminals.

[primavera]

68. How about a pack of mad pitt bulls

... to reduce him to hamburger?

[Renew Deal]

28. He'll play pro-football this year.

Though most people will be surprised where.

[Hepburn]

33. In hell?

That works for me.

[Critters2]

61. I'd be good with that, too. nt

[RoadRage]

34. Let him play football for the NFL..

Whatever team signs him is going to have a PR nightmare on their hands.. with PETA protesters lined up outside of their stadium every game.

If the team is smart - they will sign him to say a $10,000,000 contract, with $9,000,000 of it going to the city's local humane society.

Not sure if any team is smart enough to do something like that.. but it would be some sort of a win-win.

[Renew Deal]

36. Some people think bad publicity is better than no publicity at all.

And that's the thinking with Vick.

[Seedersandleechers]

40. IMO I think some "light" team will take him at the end of July,

or a larger team will take him on their 2nd team. (Sorry, don't know much sport lingo). I believe next year will be different with possibly a different team, AND, I believe winning is more important then PR. PETA, may actually help if they can make them out to be the enemy.

[Solomon]

47. America just doesn't exist anymore. We used to allow people

to rehabilitate once they have done their time. I find most of the reponses on this thread sickening. If you don't agree with the sentence, then complain to the judge who did it, but he did serve his time and should be allowed to sell his services just like anyone else.

Why let him work even a $10 job? Why didn't we just execute the fucker and be done with it?

The vitriol on this thread is over the top. I hear people talking and actually saying he got a pass. It's ridiculous. Why let him work at all if he can't play football, what's the difference? Oh I see, you don't want him making more than $10 an hour. Would $11 be too much?

[ShortnFiery]

51. Oh but we will allow Athletes and other rich elites to commit unspeakable crimes with little to NO

ATONEMENT.

After all, they are "the privileged few."

The celebrities and wealthy always can PAY THEIR WAY out of any CRIME and/or sins. :puke:

[Critters2]

60. He's proven himself dangerous and untrustworthy.

Any employer would be perfectly justified in not hiring him. I can't see why anyone would. That's just the consequence of behaving as he has.

[WillParkinson]

66. "Execute the fucker"

Oooh, is that option still open? Can we exercise it?

If Mr. Vick had done to a human what he did to the dogs he likely would never have seen the light of day again. Unfortunately, due to the fact that dogs are not considered important in a court of law, he gets off with basically a slap on the wrist.

Yeah, some of us are a little peevish. I hope you can understand why.

[Solomon]

67. You call that a slap on the wrist? Rich athletes getting away

with something? You guys don't have a clue. Let me say this clearer. HE DIDN'T GET AWAY WITH IT.

What is it about the concept of serving your time and paying for your crime that you folks don't understand?

You say if it had a been a person instead of a dog... WELL IT WASN'T A HUMAN. Why would you make that argument. Suppose I step on an ant. Does it make sense for anybody to say, "well if the ant had a been human..."

It's ridiculous. There's a big old stinking elephant in this room and I won't bring it up because people here will explode. Hide behind your rich athlete excuse but if you dig a little deeper the damn might bust. There's plenty of convicted people making awhole lot more money after the conviction than before and for some curious reason, they seem to have one thing more in common than anything else.

Continue to flame away on this nonsense.

[WillParkinson]

69. Why would I make the argument?

Because the dogs lives had value. Apparently to most people other than this "man". You don't snuff out something because it loses a fight, or refuses to fight.

It's not like this man bilked money. It's not like this man bet on sporting events. He killed innocent animals for his amusement and the entertainment of others.

You might consider them worthless, I do not.

[bitchkitty]

90. Who says we have to forgive him?

Do you think that once someone has served time for a heinous crime, that their guilt is somehow magically absolved when they get paroled?

The idea that he should be allowed to be a role model for children, and that's what professional athletes are, role models, is ridiculous and extremely offensive to any decent human being.

I don't care if he makes $10 or $100 - he threw away a chance that millions of poor kids will never get when he tortured innocent animals. Fuck compassion. I reserve my compassion for his canine victims.

[grantcart]

97. I agree completely

Good luck Michael, I hope that you bounce back regain your life and inspire kids with your background to do well and stay above the law.



He has already signed to do work with the ASPCA, regardless of how contrived is a good thing.

[ShortnFiery]

50. What many people don't realize is that one of the biggest "tell" to an anti-social persona is how

they treat SMALL ANIMALS who are dependent and totally defenseless to manipulation. :(

[cindyfaulkner]

54. Three very pretty babies...

made me smile . Mine is black with uncropped ears. Rescued her and she is such a goofy girl.

[ShortnFiery]

55. Oh, thanks, I got those pics from others. I rescued my baby girl (Pointer mix) in Okinawa Japan.

Miss Taro was found next to a drainage ditch, newly birthed and abandoned. Yet she was standing close to her dead brother.



We enjoyed 15 wonderful years with Miss Taro until, I put her to sleep (end her pain) last month.

I've cried a river of tears. Didn't think I could cry anymore but the tears still come.

I guess that's why, for the life of me, I don't understand the "mind" of anyone who would harm a defenseless small animal. They bring so much joy and ask for little. :cry:

I want to see Michael Vick SHOW some genuine contrition but I fear he doesn't have it in his character.

I hope and pray I'm wrong ... we need more compassion and understanding in this world ... for all defenseless creatures.

[underpants]

72. The Frank Deford test

"You can judge a society by how they treat their animals and their beaches"

DeFord is a legendary sports reporter.

[underpants]

71. Damn I'll bet there was some kind of party at Mike's last night

[ShortnFiery]

74. Damn, Sorry! I can't believe this thread is still alive.

:wow:

[ProudDad]

75. It's always amazing to me ...

that on a discussion board that's alleged to be rational and (at least slightly) to the left of Attila the Hun...

There are SO MANY PEOPLE who cannot believe that a human being can change...

There are SO MANY who deny the possibility of human redemption...

There are SO MANY who are SO SHALLOW as to be unable to view any "criminal" as being anything but an irredeemable, one-dimensional character but will blow your fucking head off if you question THEIR flexibility, morality or ability to learn and change...

Very depressing...


I'm willing to allow Mr. Vick to prove that he has changed, that he has realized that what he did was wrong on so many levels. I'm more than willing to allow him to redeem himself by acting differently now that the state has exacted their mindless, unproductive penalty by treating him just as the dogs he fought were treated.


I'm also saddened that this thread has so much activity while the news of last night's state murder of a redeemed human being is almost silent...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3887879

On Edit: You know, the thread about the state murder of Dennis Skillicorn does have more recommends so I partially withdraw my last statement...

[ShortnFiery]

77. People who demonstrate antisocial behavior are the most DIFFICULT people to treat.

Like Sex Offenders, the vast majority of them remain SICK and, therefore do not change.

I would have more faith some addicted to Meth to recover than a person clinically diagnosable as Antisocial Personality Disorder.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/antisocial-personality-disorder/ds00829

[Zavulon]

76. He got a lot more jail time than Leonard Little for what I personally consider a lesser offense.

Vick didn't drive drunk and kill a 15 year-old's mother, get only 90 days in jail plus some probation and a thousand hours of community service, and then get nabbed drunk behind the wheel again. Little did, and should have received at least twenty years in jail. I'df have given him life if I were the judge and a life sentence was on the table.

I never could stand Vick, but he's paid his dues for what he did, whether he shows remorse or not. I am not one of those "right to make a living" types who thinks the NFL is obligated to reinstate him (a right to make a living does not guarantee whatever job someone wants, otherwise I'd be playing for the Montreal Canadiens), but some of the hatred I see in this thread is really disturbing. I don't wish him luck or misery - if anything, I wish him the sort of quiet life that keeps his name out of the papers.

[ShortnFiery]

78. "Lesser Offense?" Maiming and harming INNOCENT DEPENDENT CREATURES? Lesser Offense?

In addition to killing, here's the FRUITS of Michael Vick's "Lesser Offense:

[Zavulon]

79. Repeat: "...WHAT I PERSONALLY CONSIDER a lesser offense."

Your mileage may vary, but did you honestly think your hypersensitive, hysterical reaction would make me say "Well, shucks, that's right, by golly?"

Yes, I PERSONALLY CONSIDER killing a wife and mother while behind the wheel drunk a far more grave offense than being involved in a dogfighting ring.

Your call, but you might want to grab a drink, a box of Kleenex and calm the fuck down.

[ShortnFiery]

80. You may wish to take another LONG look at the photo above?

Or have you checked your empathy for defenseless creatures at the door?

IF someone is so callous as to maim and kill small animals who are defenseless to challenge them, WHAT do you think they may be capable of if truly backed against a wall.

Working the mid-shift at some bowling alley would be, IMO, too good for Michael Vick.

No, he served his time in jail but he's still a poor excuse for a HUMAN being.

[Zavulon]

81. I saw all I needed to see, and the first thing which came to mind was

how I now understand why so many Loungers say they never venture into LBN, GD and GD / P. It seems you can't even have a difference of opinion around here without some hysterical, snide, condescending person lecturing you as to how you should feel and making stupid cracks like "Or have you checked your empathy for defenseless creatures at the door?"

Just because I have more empathy for an innocent wife and mother than I do for dogs does not mean I am completely without empathy for the dogs, as you so condescendingly suggest, it just means that in this discussion they come in second to the wife / mother.

Are you so morally superior that you feel you have to fly off the handle at everyone who doesn't agree with you? Regardless of your answer, I have a suggestion as to where you can take your snide condescension and your hyper attitude towards anyone who doesn't agree with you, but you'd be well advised to consult a proctologist before taking me up on the advice.

[ShortnFiery]

82. No, I'm far from superior. However, you are the one throwing out motive

and flatly passing judgment on this other "more important charge."

We disagree, but you MUST be right.

No, I think you are playing a tough-guy role because you like football and want to see Vick play.

At least consider the remote possibility that you might be wrong ... if you have that basic capacity? ;)

[Zavulon]

83. It's amazing how you interpret the posts of others.

I never said I MUST be right, I said your mileage (that means "opinion") may vary from mine.

I consider and accept the possibility that I others might disagree with me, which is why I said "WHICH I PERSONALLY CONSIDER" in my first post. This is the second time I've had to remind you of what I wrote in my first post, and you still take everything wrong.

Nowhere did I say that my stance is uequivocally and demonstrably correct, I said that it was what I PERSONALLY CONSIDER.

For the record, what you inexplicably consider to be me playing what you refer to as a "tough-guy role" is merely me thinking the life of a wife and mother is more important - to ME, anyway (try to focus on that the next time you overreact to / misinterpret my posts) - than the lives of the Bad Newz Kennels dogs. I'm bettng that I'm not the only one who feels that way (not even including the deceased's husband and son).

Also, I was referred to DU by a user who goes by the username of Ron Mexico, which is a direct shot at Michael Vick because he was stupid enough to pass that off as a real name at a VD clinic. I share that user's disdain of Vick for far more reasons than the dogs (running around and infecting women with herpes without warning them, "allegedly," his demands that nobody ever criticize him for anything, and a lot more stupidity on his part). Although you are correct in that I like football (the only thing, in my view, that you've gotten right in this entire discussion), I said I don't think he's entitled to play in the NFL - and, going further, I have no desire whatsoever to see him play. Aside from me not liking him or thinking he's automatically entitled to return to a league in which playing is not a right, he was a one-dimensional player - a quarterback who could run as well as anyone but couldn't throw worth a shit. He wasn't a good quarterback then, and I doubt he's improved in jail. So no, I don't want to see him play.

Now if you can prove, unequivocally and to the satisfaction of everyone, that I am demonstrably wrong in what I PERSONALLY CONSIDER (as opposed to merely having a different opinion and set of priorities than you have), go ahead. Do it. If not, make sure you add your stupid and snide "basic capacity" crack to the list when you go see the proctologist.

Now if you'll excuse me, I think I'll go get a soda and wait for you to overreact and misinterpret THIS post.

[ShortnFiery]

84. Wow, I must have really hit a nerve.

No, perhaps you should consider your over-reation above?

Admit it, that picture above got to you? ... pulled at your heartstrings?

Have a nice evening. :hi:

[Zavulon]

85. 'Tis to laugh. Once again, you misinterpret one of my posts. Wow, I'm stunned.

The only way you hit a nerve was with your ridiculously hyper reaction to a simple difference of opinion. Your condescension was annoying, but predictable. I honestly don't care if you or anyone else agrees with me. I thought I'd explain in a little more detail in my last post so that you'd understand my stance and how you were wrong about things you said, but you found yet another way to take me wrong - this time, by overestimating the importance I put on what you write.

The picture didn't "pull at my heartstrings," it disgusted me - but I don't consider what happened to that dog to be as bad as what happened to Susan Gutwelier or her family.

Since you've obviously figured out a way to misinterpret everything I write, I decided to go another route: I put up what I believe was a fairly-worded poll in GD: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5700511 .

As of this writing, the score is tied 3-3. You may very well get more respondents on your side than I get on mine, but even after five minutes I've proven that I'm not the only one who feels the way I do. If the poll winds up 200-3 in your favor, I'm still going to think what I think because my opinions aren't formed by what others think - I just wanted you to see that if you were as right as you think you are, NOBODY except me would have opted for Little in the poll.

The bottom line is this: there is no definite right or wrong on either side, it's what WE PERSONALLY CONSIDER. This is a point I've labored repeatedly to make in this thread, but I've finally gotten it through my head that your contempt of those who don't agree with you is so massive that you can't understand that people can have different opinions. For my part, I know - and admitted early - that not everyone is going to agree with me, and unlike you, I'm fine with it.

Have fun following the poll. Feel free to track down those who agreed with me and treat them to your laughably hyper screeds.

[ShortnFiery]

86. Wow, you are a super competitive person, aren't you?

Forgive me if I don't follow the poll in the other thread.

We differ in so many ways that I don't know where to begin.

I just lost my beloved dog of 15 years last month. Unlike you, I'm not 100% analytical ... I admit to compassion and feelings.

Hey, you want to think "you win"? YOU WIN. :eyes:

Good-night.

[Zavulon]

87. Wow, you really don't understand what I'm saying, do you?

You came in with snot-coated guns blazing as I were unequivocally wrong, even suggesting that I needed to take another look at a picture that speaks a thousand words with one glance, and even asked "At least consider the remote possibility that you might be wrong ... if you have that basic capacity?"

I said from the outset that my opinion was, and I've had to point this out repeatedly to you, WHAT I PERSONALLY CONSIDER.

You treated it as if it was a right-wrong, black-and-white issue, and I was trying to cut through your hypersensitivity to show you that it wasn't. I merely expressed an opinion in a thread on a board where opinions are freely exchanged, and you came in with a bunch of snide and condescending shit as if you had all the answers.

Competitive? You may very well get more to agree with you in the poll, and I won't give a flying fuck. I wasn't trying to prove you wrong (which, obviously, would be impossible in a strictly opinion-based disagreement), beat you in a poll or compete with you, I simply wanted to cut through your hysterical reactions long enough to show you that people can disagree on the issue and that you didn't have the magic answer.

I didn't try to change you. YOU tried to change ME with your suggestion that I take a longer look at the photo you posted. That's not being competitive on my part, it's being cometitive on YOURS. Your accusation of me being competitive is baseless and absurd, as many of your conclusions have been (especially the idea that I was taking a "tough-guy" stance because I wanted to see Vick play, which was wrong on both counts).

I never had a desire to see you say that I "win" - the only thing I really wanted was to show you that others disagree with you and that maybe, just maybe, your shrieking reaction to my first and subsequent posts was a bit silly. I doubt you'd ever admit the latter, but now that you finally seem to realize the former I wonder if you'll give the people who agreed with me the same snide shit, condescension, hasty / incorrect conclusions and so on that you gave me.

Go after them. They had the gall, audacity and temerity to disagree with you. Clearly, they deserve it. :rofl:

[ShortnFiery]

89. Again, I hit a nerve. You really do need to lighten up ...

tiger. :evilgrin:

[Zavulon]

92. Don't confuse "hitting a nerve" with simply amazing someone with your

absolute inability to understand any point other than your own.

Kitten. :evilgrin:

[Zavulon]

91. BTW,

I really enjoyed your accusation of me being 100% analytical. It was consistent with what I've seen from you so far (baseless accusations).

For what it's worth, I really am sorry to hear about your dog. Further, as I've alluded to before, I am not without compassion towards the Bad Newz Kennels dogs. I simply have more sympathy for the wife / mother who was killed by some asshole who decided to get behind the wheel of a tank drunk.

Naturally, to you that's me being "100% analytical." Not surprising from you, yet amazing nonetheless.

[ShortnFiery]

93. BTW. Not only are you demonstrating hyper-competitiveness but you also ...

seemingly always have to have the last word? :shrug:

[Zavulon]

94. It's incredible what you think of as competition.

You made a baseless accusation towards me. I responded. To you, that's me having to have the last word because I wasn't going to let your stupid, uninformed accusation pass without comment. :rofl:

[ShortnFiery]

95. I accept your apology.

Have a good evening. ;)

[Zavulon]

96. I'd have to apologize first for you to accept my apology.

However, thanks to you, I've had a GREAT evening, as have four others. See my most recent post in the other thread.

:hi:

[1]

88. you really can't hate on michael vick here. dude served his time. hate the sentence, not the perp.

if our laws should be changed to keep the michael vick's of the world in prison longer, or maybe give them a death sentence for their crimes, then that is a different discussion.

dude served his time.

should we not let him vote? or possess a gun? or pursue a livelihood?