San Jose Mom and Cranky 2-Yr-Old Kicked Off Southwest Flight

[harvey007]

Source: The Oakland Tribune

Pamela Root's 2-year-old son was screaming for the Southwest Airlines plane to "Go! Plane! Go!"
"I want Daddy!" he shouted. Over and over again.
Despite her embarrassment, the stay-at-home mom remained confident that once the plane took off and she fed him, Adam would calm down and take a nap — just as he had on the half-dozen other plane rides with Mom.
However, the flight crew was not willing to find out.

Read more: http://www.insidebayarea.com/news/ci_13674572

[Rosa Luxemburg]

1. I remember those old ladies complaining about my son who had earache on landing

we were flying the Atlantic and he screamed the plane down as we were landing. You should have heard those old women next to us

[Tansy_Gold]

3. I'm an "old lady" who has had to endure flights

with a child literally screaming in my ear for two or three hours. I've had uncontrolled children climbing on me. I've had my elbow kicked by a disruptive child in the seat behind me.

I no longer have any qualms confronting the parents. I wouldn't tolerate that kind of behavior in a restaurant and at least there I can get up and leave. I refuse to put up with it on an airplane.

Good for Southwest.



Tansy Gold

[question everything]

29. Have a "kid section" just as we used to have a smoking section

at least you won't have a kid screaming in your ear, or kicking you or, worse, as happened to me one on a flight practically empty - having smelly diaper change next to you.

[Psephos]

49. The diaper thing is the worst.

By far.

[edwardian]

78. Bunch of pedophobes

and kid-haters on this thread, or what? Children should be permitted the right to be children, which, as any responsible parent should know means having room to be uncomfortable, scared, unhappy, etc. EVEN IN PUBLIC! Children are NOT adults and need to be provided with the space to be free of public expectations. They will have enough pressure to conform as the mature.

[Tansy_Gold]

84. And shall we call you a pedophile?

I don't dislike children. And I agree that they have a right to be happy and scared and active.

But I also have rights. And just as ALL "rights" are limited by the confrontation with opposing "rights" so the rights of screaming disruptive children and their parents have to be balanced with the rights of adults who have also paid to fly.

I've also been on flights with disruptive adults. About a year ago I flew back from Chicago next to a woman who spent the entire 3-hour flight going back and forth to the restroom to throw up. She went through four or five or more barf bags during the flight. She moaned and coughed and choked and groaned from the time she got on the plane until we landed. The flight was overbooked so I knew there were no spare seats I could move to. HAD I KNOWN she was sick when she sat down next to me -- she only appeared tired or a little stressed -- I'd have requested that she be removed. Whether my request would have been honored, I don't know. But at least I'd have had the opportunity to remove myself from the situation. Instead, I spent three horrible hours with her, not to mention being exposed to whatever illness she might have had.

When I got home, I wrote to the airline and got a very terse reply saying that it was the individual flight crew's decision to remove anyone THEY felt might have been a problem.

It's not just children who can be annoying, and a traveler's discomfort at being crammed into a crowded space with one of hte more unpleasant individuals of that species should not be compared to generalized child-hating.



TG

[PassingFair]

112. +1 Cranky people should get private aircraft if LIFE bothers them so much.

You are on a commercial flight.
Not a PRIVATE flight.

Deal.

[edwardian]

131. Thanks.

Guess maturity and self-control are no longer aspects of the average American adult. Replaced by ugly selfishness and lack of compassion, it is funny the child gets called a brat for its behavior... I repeat my charge of pedophobia, and yeah, I love children. Not just the way Tansy Gold implies...

[Darth_Kitten]

198. Oh, I'm sure the little darlings will be compensated...........

their parents will probably cater to their every little whim until they are 30 and beyond.

[NashVegas]

168. Clueless People Should Try It

You don't seem to understand exactly how goodwill and public relations work in instances such as this. I'll try to break it down for you:

One passenger and one screaming child (who may or may not be a paid fare) create a viscerally unpleasant experience for three dozen.

Of those three dozen, the question for Southwest is, "how many will book with Delta or American next time if we risk allowing this unpleasant experience to last 30 minutes or more?"

If they assume, correctly, that losing those three dozen will be more harmful to their business than losing you, you lose.

[Darth_Kitten]

197. NO!!!!!

I and others don't have to get throbbing headaches because some parents don't say one word to their precious darlings to shut up (I like how on the same flight the same parents wouldn't strap their kid into his seat. The attendant threw up his hands in exasperation.)

Yeah, I like SCREAMING for 5 hours.

[Hello_Kitty]

113. Another entitled parent hiding behind their children

Newsflash: You're kids aren't the problem, YOU are. It is your responsibility to make sure your children behave in public and if you can't get them to do that, then you and your children need to go home.

Children are NOT adults and need to be provided with the space to be free of public expectations. They will have enough pressure to conform as the mature.

But parents ARE adults (or they're supposed to be anyway) and need to use discretion about their child's development level and ability to handle certain situations. Deliberately subjecting your child to a prolonged uncomfortable situation, and annoying other people, so YOU can enjoy something is the height of selfishness.

Once again, it's not about your kid. It's about YOU. You are not your children. They are separate people and I have to say I find the way some parents identify themselves so thoroughly through their offspring to be rather unhealthy.

[Loge23]

187. "responsible parent(s)" are the key here

Whatever happened to public behavior anyway?
Let me tell you straight off here - I'm not fearful of children but I resent the notion that the world has become an extended play-box for children. Fact is, there is acceptable public behavior and that is behavior that does not intentionally disrupt others.
Since when has it become acceptable for children to run amok - on public transportation, in stores, and even on "Bring your problem child to work day"? Just yesterday, some out of control banshee child ran right into me in a store. The parent was nearby. No apology, no admonishment - just a "be careful" to the kid: he might have hurt himself after all!
And don't even get me started about kids on cruise ships! Save that for cruisecritic.com!
I was brought up to, yes, act like an adult in public situations. This did not impede my growth nor make me neurotic, psychotic, or put any pressure on me whatsoever to GROW UP! Growing up was the objective back then. But back then, we didn't talk in theatres or libraries - another quaint relic of the past long gone.
Everyone of us who has flown has encountered the dreaded infant in the seat or aisle next to us. Remember when our parents used to think that infants (even us) were too young to travel? In most cases a little crying is to be accepted; but it's when the kid starts climbing over the seat, running down the aisles, or screaming like bloody murder that it becomes all too familiar.
The sad reality is that many parents these days just don't have any discernible parenting skills. Letting your offspring behave like chimps in public can't be a good thing for their eventual task of coping in an adult society. But I guess we can water down that concept also.

[Patchuli]

202. Spot on. Thanks!

Some of us were raised to believe that children had to behave acceptably and that was the norm, not the dysfunctional situations we see these days. If we acted up, we had consequences. Too many parents want to be their child's 'friend' and forget that their job is to be PARENT. Your kid will love you even when you punish them.

[Darth_Kitten]

196. Not if I'm spending 600 bucks on my flight.....

n/t

[NYC Liberal]

60. How would that work? Should airlines build soundproof walls between sections?

:shrug:

[question everything]

106. No, just as there were no walls to block the smoke from whiffing

into the rest of the cabin. But it gave a bit of a reprieve.

This means you don't have a screaming, kicking kid next to you but several rows back.

But, of course, you knew that.

[NYC Liberal]

134. I'm not trying to attack you, I'm just wondering how that would work.

Because we all know how loud a lot of babies can scream. Smoke particles can be blocked, to at least some extent, by a curtain. Sound is harder to block.

It's a tough issue because unlike, say restaurants, where you can simply go to another restaurant if one doesn't allow babies or kids, flights are scheduled and for many people necessary.

[XemaSab]

160. There's a big difference between a kid screaming because he's bored

and screaming because his ears haven't popped.

[Hepburn]

85. I am an old lady who wears hearing aids.

Do you have any idea of what it is like to have a wailing child causing a hearing aid to do a high pitched whine smack inside both ears next to the eardrum? For two fucking hours...

Should I just take them off and not hear emergency instructions instead so your screaming child can disturb me and everyone else?

Sheesh....I am soooooooo fucking sick of bullshit like this being thrown at the eldery.

If your child bothers me ~~ YOU and the WHINING SCREAMING child are the problem ~~ not me. PS ~~ if your child has an earache ~~ he should NOT be flying at all. The pressure can rupture the drum and he can end up with hearing aids just like me.

Duh....

[Rosa Luxemburg]

149. I'm old too

and my child at the time did not have an ear infection - just the pressure or the motion

[Lorien]

172. Did you give him something to drink or chew so that his ears wouldn't hurt

during the landing? I'm always shocked that parents don't even think to bring a sippy cup of gum for their kids so their ears don't pop painfully.

[Politicub]

2. A modest proposal to check kids as baggage for passenger peace

Perhaps someone in CA could put an initiative on the ballot requiring two year olds to be checked as baggage.

Why not? Californians seem to be comfortable with people being able way to take away civil rights by popular vote. And this would indeed be a popular measure, since no one likes to be on a plane with a screaming kid. I bet it would get approved. Maybe the mormons will back it, too.

Yes, an amendment to the CA constitution would be a great way to deal with this inconvenience.

[itsrobert]

10. DU by-laws must say

Never waste a moment to bash California. Funny, the right bashes California too. I don't know why it is the most populous state with all the hate shown toward it?

[Politicub]

14. Let the people vote! How is that bashing?

Put in on the ballot and let the people decide if kids should be checked as baggage.

But FWIW, I love Calif. It's my favorite state, and I miss living there. It's a hundred times better than GA, where I live now. And because of that, it stings more when the people of Calif. get something like Prop 8 on the ballot and then amend the constitution to strip away rights with a simple popular vote.

I'm just feeling angry this evening about all of the anti gay stuff that will be voted on by whims of the people across the country on Tuesday. I'm sick of having my rights be something that people can vote away at will, like some high school student council election.

[parasearchers]

53. I kinda like the idea of caging the children down in cargo.

Something really appeal about putting the little animals down out of sound and smell. No screaming, no poop, damn I would vote for that.

(No I am not a parent)

[Hepburn]

86. +1...

...or just keep them off flights PERIOD.

[Bette Noir]

38. They're just jealous. It was 75 in LA today.

[Le Taz Hot]

69. Yeah.

77 in Fresburg today. I worked in the garden (year-round garden, I might add -- no perma-frost here).

[Patchuli]

23. Edit

Edited due to a misunderstanding. I misread your post but please understand that I am/was/will always be opposed to Prop 8 and worked against it in the campaign in the last election.

As far as two year olds that mothers cannot control, they should not fly with the general public until said mother can control the child. It's not fair to the other paying passengers. Period. NO ON 8!!!! Yes on parents getting a clue on how to teach children to behave in public!

[Politicub]

35. Hmmmm

I didn't see your original post, so I don't know what you said.

I didn't mean to offend anyone... it was a crude attempt at satire.

The upcoming votes on Tuesday in Maine, Washington and Michigan about stripping away civil unions and marriage rights just has me a little on edge. It was a shitty epiphany that I came to this evening that my right to happiness can be voted away on a whim. And, there are people that relish the opportunity to do that.

[BR_Parkway]

75. I know what you mean - it gets pretty damn old keeping up with these

campaigns to see how your rights are going to be affected depending on which states you travel to with your loved ones.

[katkat]

33. parents in first class, noxious kids in coach with their nanny

That's what happened on a flight I was on. The little monsters were in the seats in front of me, kicking the seats and screaming through the whole flight.

Someone in coach should have gone into first class and pitched the parents out the door in flight.

[Le Taz Hot]

68. Uh, no,

"Californians" are not "comfortable with people being able to take away civil rights by popular vote." SOME Californians are. The rest of us continue to overturn that bit of offal. But other than that, I LOVE your "check kids as baggage for passenger peace" idea! :evilgrin:

[Politicub]

94. Yeah, I shouldn't have lumped everyone in together

Because I know that fairness wins out in the big cities there. It's the central parts of the state that are more conservative, I think.

But I still think gay rights shouldn't be something that people can vote on taking away. The only thing that will stop it is a decree by the Supreme Court, but I'm afraid which way they would go with the conservative tilt of the court.

[UpInArms]

4. maybe that "stay at home mom" needs to stay at home?

n/t

[Patchuli]

26. Actually maybe she needs parenting lessons

and a babysitter for those lessons. Honestly, why should children not be expected to behave anymore???????

[edwardian]

79. Child was behaving...

like a child. Duh. Bunch of kid-haters.

[Hello_Kitty]

130. And parent was behaving like an entitled asshat. eom

[Codeine]

139. Contrary to your beliefs,

children are not savages without a speck of self-control unless they have parents that allow and encourage that behavior. My mother would not have tolerated me acting out in public, and no other parent should either.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

158. Child was behaving like a child behaving badly.

You common sense hater.

[edwardian]

170. Wrong.

Child was acting like a normal child. You are hardly fit to call me a common sense hater. The mirror in your room needs cleaning, I bet.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

188. You calling anyone who objected a child hater clearly identifies you as lacking common sense.

[Darth_Kitten]

200. Love kids. Great on toast.

n/t

[Hello_Kitty]

120. I blame the psycho-babble and pharmaceutical industries myself

Every child is a Special Gifted Miracle, and if your little Snowflake acts up it's because s/he has ADHD or Oppositional Defiance Disorder or is bipolar and oh looky...we happen to have just the pill for it!

I predict that 50 years from now we're going to look back on this era of drugging children with the same level of horror as we regard electro-shock and lobotomies from the first part of the 20th century.

[hoboken123]

135. I'm curious to your magical methods

...of quieting 2-year-olds...

[boppers]

152. Feeding/nap works.

That's how the mother handled the second flight.

[JNelson6563]

173. It starts at the beginning.

I run a chocolate shop and we get all kinds. It is really easy to see which parents do a good job and which don't. Poorly raised children behave badly, well raised children don't. Sure, even the well raised ones have trouble sometimes, teething, illness, being tired can all cause a child to behave badly. How the parent reacts determines how the child continues.

Some parents are so helpless, it's quite sad really. Last summer there was a little family of three in. The toddler was in a stroller. He got bored, put on a petulant face and let out a grunt. The parents were on it instantly. "What? What is it???" It was plain as day to see who was running that family. Darling little tyrant.

I've raised two kids. If they didn't behave as was expected in public then they didn't get to go anywhere for a while, until they were willing to behave out in the world. Sure, when they're babies you can't reason with them but when they're toddlers they get it.

Julie

[Patchuli]

194. There's nothing "magical" about good parenting

The kid wasn't screaming for the fun of it.

[itsrobert]

5. Mom doesn't know about Benadryl ?

:shrug:

[Donnachaidh]

20. benedryl wouldn't work -- give them gum if they are old enough

or a bottle if they are too young -- they scream because the eardrums are popping. This usually frightens the kids. But if they have gum they can keep the popping from happening.

I've traveled with my son on flights and never had a problem, because I prepared beforehand to keep him from going apeshit over something he has no control over. I remembered having to deal with little monsters on flights, and I did the research necessary to avoid the problems.

[itsrobert]

27. The flight hadn't taken off yet

So it wouldn't be eardrums in this case.

[Le Taz Hot]

70. I'm not a parent

but somehow gum + 2-year-old = not a good outcome?

[Ilsa]

156. Benadryl makes alot of kids hyperactive, including my kids.

It is a very typical paradoxical reaction.

[smirkymonkey]

205. Morphine, however, is quite effective.

Use it myself on long trips.

[bluestateguy]

6. I cannot tolerate screaming infants on airplanes

I just can't.

if that makes me an intolerant bigot, fine. Then I guess I am.

[davidpdx]

67. I agree with you

I take long flights as I live overseas and on a 10-11 hour flight you don't want to be cooped up with a screaming kid. Thankfully I now have a PMP (portable media player) I take with me everywhere which I fill with videos and music so if there is nothing provided on the flight I can use it. It at least gives me the chance to completely check out and ignore what's going on.

[KamaAina]

7. I'm well over two. And male. I swear.

:-)

[kwassa]

8. My daughter says "Faster, daddy, faster!"

and gets upset at red lights.

I think I'll take her on Southwest.

[NCDem60]

9. My wife says the same thing. :)

[madeline_con]

12. It had to be said, for the sake of the thread. n/t

[Extend a Hand]

148. at red lights?

:rofl:
:hi:

[itsrobert]

11. I use to tell my son to yell, "We are going down!"

in mid flight. And than we both would fake like we were holding on for dear life. I don't know why people got upset.

[MisterP]

13. can they do something about gum chewers? it sounds like f%lching but it goes on for hours... n/t

[valerief]

15. Why don't parents tranquilize their rowdy kids? I realize small children have a hard time

controlling their little kid energy, but with all the drugs being dumped down kids's throats nowadays, aren't there some mild sedatives for them? This would be easier on the kids, too. I mean, we do it for pets in cages while traveling.

[Honeycombe8]

176. My thoughts exactly. There are mild kid-friendly drugs to make kids calmer. I've gotten them

for my pets who didn't travel well. They are very safe, and actually help the pet or child who is SO anxious with travel that they work themselves up into a tither. With a mild drug, it helps the pet or child not to be so anxious, and ensures they won't be kicked off a plane. It also helps everyone else who is forced to be locked into a small compartment with the anxious child or pet.

[tomm2thumbs]

16. now I know what those tiny little pillows are for...

[Le Taz Hot]

71. ROFLMAO!!!!!

You owe me a hit . . . I just lost that one. :rofl:

[carlyhippy]

136. LOL that was terrible!

for shame LOL

[peace13]

17. After reading the comments here, I wonder how folks think people with little ones should travel?

Not every trip is a vacation. The intolerance has really gotten out of hand. I suggests the people who can't handle little kids for a flight should take an extra happy pill and visualize arriving at their destination. Really, what did the pioneers do?

[2Design]

19. kids were more well behaved in the past - now they are all princes and princes

with outrageous temper tantrums because they have not been trained how to be out in the society

[liquid diamond]

21. We shouldn't be subject to a kid screaming for hours.

If people with kids want to travel they can drive.

[MrsMatt]

97. Or, perhaps you can drive

that way you won't be subjected to children.

[WolverineDG]

22. I expect parents to make *some* effort to keep their child under control

Sitting around waiting for take-off while the kid drives everyone nuts is not doing that. Small wonder the flight crew didn't believe she would do anything once they got in the air.

dg

[MrsMatt]

100. I agree - the mother was incredibly stupid to

hold off dealing with her son's unacceptable behavior.

Whenever we've traveled with our kids, I always made damned sure to have enough distractions packed in my carry on to entertain them. Books, small toys, crayons, even a portable dvd player & movies. We also let our children know well ahead of time what they could expect and that we expected them to behave.

The important thing to do is to pay attention to your kids when traveling and to immediately attend to any unacceptable behavior.

[Lorien]

174. i travel with a portable DVD player, two sets of headphones and a pack of

G and PG rated family films (thank goodness for all those freebies I got while working for the mouse). Sometimes I bring mini children's books with me too. If the parent's aren't prepared at least I am, though it shouldn't have to be my responsibility. I've been thanked by other passengers many times for calming down obnoxious kids of all ages.

[OhioBlue]

28. no kidding.

Personally, I wouldn't have a problem at all sitting next to a parent and 2 yr old - no matter how unruly the kid was. I would try to help.

[enlightenment]

32. They made their kids walk.

They were too tired to misbehave. Seriously.

It isn't all about the kids, honestly, nor is it intolerance. It's a lot of parents who seem to feel that they have to take absolutely no responsibility for their kids - and expect the world to accept every bit of out of control behaviour that their kids' exhibit. Based on the resolution of this story, this woman figured out that if she took control of the situation, she could control her child's behaviour. That, in and of itself, suggests that originally she sat on the plane, allowing her kid to shriek at the top of his lungs - and because he wasn't crying, it wasn't a problem for her and she didn't feel it should be for anyone else.

[davidpdx]

66. Bingo

[WolverineDG]

103. Or in the case of my great-grandmother, made them drive different wagons

My grandfather & his brother fought constantly, so when it came time to haul the family to Texas, Grandpa drove one wagon & Uncle Ralph drove the other & they were responsible for the horses.

Although I suppose nowadays, people would call that child abuse, since both were just shy of being 10 years old. :eyes:

dg

[XemaSab]

162. When my grandpa and his brothers were that age

(we're talking late 20's, early 30's) their dad used to drive them out into the woods with a pile of canned food and leave them there for the summer. :D

[Hello_Kitty]

36. Not every trip is to go see a dying relative either. eom

[Raster]

42. What did the pioneers do? When they were cooped up with screaming children on a plane?

They probably fed the little motherfuckin' bastards to the motherfuckin' snakes on the motherfuckin' plane.

Seriously, I don't think the pioneers flew too much.

[digidigido]

45. If your kid cant behave, then drive you car. Jesus, why should I put up with a

screaming brat and pay $200 for the privilege, If you don't know how to parent
don't make me suffer

[Frank Cannon]

56. The pioneers shot unruly children and buried them trailside

Kids were much better behaved then.

[Hepburn]

87. Try red eye....

...cheaper and usually half full or less. Why take a toddler during the day at the busiest travel times? At night, they usually fall asleep. And if they want to be busy, there is plenty of room for them to move around and the cabin attendants usually have time to amuse them.

Always worked for me.

[WyLoochka]

95. Pioners weren't trapped

in a cramped enclosed space.

[Codeine]

142. What did the pioneers do?

They controlled their children like parents are supposed to do.

[Odin2005]

154. There are a lot of posters that just hate kids.

I have many sensory sensitivities because of my Asperger's Syndrome, and even I give kids a break, I mean, THEY ARE KIDS!!! Geez, some of the kid-haters want to go back to when kids were seen and not heard. :eyes:

[peace13]

157. The responses here make me physically ill.

Lord of the flies on steroids! Real haters.

[Patchuli]

164. I love kids yet I hate when parents allow them to misbehave

and think the rest of us should just deal with it because they are just "kids." Kids from our generation were not allowed to climb all over the rights of adults and it worked fine. Why is it different now?

[Odin2005]

185. This kid is 2 years old, not 5, or 9.

I'm not a parent, but I have taken care of relatives and they call them the Terrible 2s for a reason. If this kid was a couple years older you would be correct.

[Patchuli]

193. I know about the terrible twos

and perhaps as another poster suggested, this child had not had a nap or had some other issue the mother hadn't taken care of. Kids don't scream nonstop for no good reason and if they did, perhaps the parent should figure out an alternative to subjecting them to the public. I can't even imagine how awful a long flight with that situation would be.

[Honeycombe8]

177. Mild kid-friendly drugs are called for, when a child has a temperament that s/he gets herself

all worked up and anxious over travel. Travel is hard enough on adults, much less children.

Expecting others who are locked into a compartment with your little darling for hours, to endure temper tantrums (whether the darling is a child or a pet), is unfair and inconsiderate to the other travelers, who have paid for their fare and are entitled to a somewhat trouble-free, safe flight.

It's not that people hate your child or pet. It's that the child or pet is having some trouble that needs to be attended to immediately, and if not, needs to be removed from the situation until the trouble is attended to. Expecting others to suffer through their trouble for an entire flight is not the answer. Mild drugs actually HELP a child or pet who is getting spasmodic over travel. Things don't bother them as much, their blood pressure stays more constant, and best of all, they probably won't get kicked off the plane.

[onager]

181. The pioneers got massacred, if they went thru Utah.

:rofl:

[GoddessOfGuinness]

195. Pioneers never would have flown with their children.

They would have had the good sense to put them in the back of the wagon, and plan on a 3 month trip to get to Granny's funeral...and smack the crap out of them if they misbehaved, to make sure they had a healthy dose of various neuroses by the time they became adults.


It's hard to make a judgement about the situation without having been there. I wonder if the young mother, frustrated with her child's behavior, didn't inadvertantly make things worse, since children are very sensitive to their parents' emotional states. Or maybe she should have brought more activities for her kid...something to make the wait seem like more of a special mom/child time. I also wonder what might have happened if one passenger who didn't know the family had offered friendly interaction with the child, as this sometimes has a calming effect on both parent and toddler.

It seems like the first response we should have when someone is having difficulty should be an attempt to offer help, rather than getting bent out of shape and making ourselves more miserable.

[liquid diamond]

18. Southwest is my favorite airline.

I'm glad they did something about this unfit parent letting her kid disturb other passengers.

[OhioBlue]

25. oh just check yourself

I hope you forgot the sarcasm tag when calling her an "unfit parent". For goodness sake, a 2 yr old is a 2 yr old... sometimes they act like... well... a 2 yr old.

[liberalhistorian]

31. Oh, don't bother, the DU anti-child

brigade, which is unbelievably strong here, can't be reasoned with at all. In that respect they're like, well, two-year-olds. They have no idea of how difficult even the best-behaved children can be at times and how hard it is to deal with children on trips, especially those where people condemn and hate instead of trying to sympathize and help. And I'd much rather be around screaming children than cranky, self-righteous, mean-spirited selfish know-it-alls who hate children and who think they know everything about them even though they've likely never had any.

You can always count on the DU anti-child faction to come out in full force on these threads to spread their self-righteous intolerant bigotry and ignorance.

[Hello_Kitty]

37. We're not anti-child. We're anti selfish narcissistic entitled PARENTS

It's not your kids we can't stand, it's YOU.

[liberalhistorian]

40. Bullshit that you're not anti-child.

It's very obvious that this particular brigade has no understanding of child development, what's normal for children at certain stages, etc. You also refuse to understand that children will act up for even the best parents and that no child will be perfect in public all the time, especially in stressful situations. To you, any parent is selfish and narcissistic if they don't keep their kids at home 24/7/365 and out of your hair. I mean, how DARE they feel "entitled" to actually be able to take their children places.

You and the brigade have no clue regarding child development, what's normal for children at certain ages and what it's like to be a parent. You have no clue that it's much more difficult and far less pat and simplistic than you think. You demand to go through life being free of exposure to any children, period. You somehow think that people with children are an affront against you. You have no sympathy or understanding for harried, weary parents who are trying to keep frazzled, frightened young children calm; if you'd ever been a parent you'd understand that there are times when children simply cannot be calmed, even by the best parents. YOU are the selfish, entitled ones!

[digidigido]

46. I've been a parent, I've been appalled at the arrogance and entitlement of parents

who think that they have the right to bring a screaming baby into a confined area
for a prolonged period of time. I know parenting is hard, nonetheless, your childs
fear should not be my problem, especially if I'm paying hundreds of dollars to
travel. A little noise is one thing, prolonged screaming is another

[Hello_Kitty]

47. We are the "villagers" who subsidize your family

And who dare not utter a word of criticism of your parenting ability, no matter how bad your children are behaving: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/oct/27/education-teacher-assault-conviction The article is from the UK but my friends who are teachers describe a very similar situation here.

BTW, I don't expect to never have to encounter children. Kids being with their parents at Safeway at 2pm is fine. But a toddler in the BAR at Chili's at 11pm is a different story. I worked nights for several years and saw that ALL THE TIME when my coworkers and I would go on our dinner breaks. It got to the point where we'd make bets on how many little kids would be there.

Sorry, but parenthood doesn't necessarily make you a saint, martyr, or a better and more mature person than someone who hasn't done it.

[Telly Savalas]

Every good or service you consume that was provided by another person

is there for you only because someone else did all the hard work and spent all the money necessary to raise that person into adulthood, so you really need to get over yourself about this "subsidizing".

[Hello_Kitty]

110. Right, because we non-parents aren't people and we don't work.

And we don't pay higher income taxes and property taxes even though we don't have kids in the schools (not that I mind the property taxes, I'm just saying.)

We don't stay late so you can see your kids' games or school plays and we don't pull holiday shifts so you can spend those important days with your family.

We aren't currently supporting anyone's retirement through our SS contributions.

Except that, oh wait, we are doing all those things.

BTW, my own parents died years ago so I'm helping to pay for other peoples' parents and grandparents. I figure by the time I retire I will have earned everything I get. :)

[liberalhistorian]

116. Thank you! I get so tired

of the martydom and hand wringing over the "subsidizing" when those same kids grow up to pay for their health care, social security, public services, or care for them in hospitals, clinics, etc.

[Hello_Kitty]

123. You have no idea how your children will turn out.

They may never work or pay taxes a day in their lives, for a variety of reasons. You don't even know what state this country and our planet will be in years from now. Your kids are not a retirement plan. Not for you and not for anyone else. Matter of fact, of all the reasons to have kids I'd put "sacrifices to the Gods of Commerce to ensure a future tax base" at the top of the list of the most specious and cruel ones. Not that I'm saying you had them for that reason, but still.

[Darth_Kitten]

201. So you give kids kudos for being future contributors, but not any...

for present contributors?

[liberalhistorian]

114. I certainly agree that a bar is NOT the place

for a toddler or young child and that it's sickening to see that. And yes, being a parent is neither a free pass nor a guarantee of sainthood or martydom. I think we can agree that there are a lot of dipshit parents out there.

But a plane is not a bar. Parents have the right to travel as much as anyone else. Yes, they need to keep their kids under control as much as possible, but children WILL be children, especially young ones, and there are times when nothing you do will calm them. It has nothing to do with "bad" parenting. People who've either never had children or who've never had to care for them on an extended basis often don't really understand that. I didn't, either, until I had my son. It was a real wake-up call.

[Hello_Kitty]

125. Apparently, parents have a *right* to be in a bar too.

I've heard tales of little kids being in strip clubs. Hey, if you don't get kicked out I guess you have a right to be there with your kid, wherever it is. So what? The vast majority of plane trips that parents bring babies and toddlers on are non-essential. You don't have to leave your state to take a vacation and people can come to you if they want to see the baby. When you drag a small child on a long uncomfortable flight to go visit family or whatever just know that you are thinking of YOURSELF. Not your child (who will probably not remember the trip but may remember the excruciating pain in her ears during landing*) and definitely not the other paying passengers on the plane. Honestly, it's worse than being in the bar at Chili's because at least the little kids there weren't shrieking in pain the whole time.


*I speak from personal experience. My own inconsiderate parents dragged me on planes from the time I was about 2. I had sensitive, infection-prone ears and remember screaming in agony and being surrounded by concerned flight attendants. I couldn't tell you whom we had gone to visit, though.

[carlyhippy]

143. never mind

[NashVegas]

81. Flying Isn't Normal At Any Age

And there are car trips for people who don't get it. There is delaying plane vacations until a child is old enough to communicate well and learn how to behave around a plane full of adults.

[liberalhistorian]

117. So if there's a family emergency or death hundreds

or thousands of miles away, we're supposed to drive just to keep you and others who don't seem to understand that children are a part of the real world and that parents have the right to travel as well happy? I don't fucking think so.

[WriteDown]

147. A rarity, but generally people leave small children with....

family, friends, neighbors, etc. Are you going to drag a 1.5 year old to a funeral or a wake? Seriously?

[Hepburn]

89. I have a masters in ed psych...

...so you can stop with the bullshit. If the child cannot be claimed, the the child needs to be removed from the situation. Duh...

[kwassa]

155. Claimed? There is a claim check for children?

Interesting.

[NashVegas]

169. Oh Wow. Nice Spelling Flame

You REALLY got her!

[WolverineDG]

104. No I understand child development perfectly

but that's not an excuse for children to be allowed to act like wild animals by parents who feel "entitled" to have everyone else deal with their unruly brats.

dg

[Hepburn]

88. +1....

...the mom who was removed appears to have just sat there and allowed her little prince to scream his spoiled ass off.

[NashVegas]

150. Everyone Claims to Be the Exception

And too many don't get that people who've seen it - over and over and over - need to be allowed to use their own discretion.

[WriteDown]

98. Southwest is now my ABSOLUTE FAVORITE airline....

Contrary to popular belief, 2 year olds can be well behaved.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

159. That's hysterical. You calling other people self righteous. That's priceless. Thanks.

:rofl:

[Honeycombe8]

178. The age is not the point, is it? People will put up with tantrums for a 2 year old for awhile.

Just not for an entire flight. When a child is having that kind of trouble, and is interrupting everyone else's flight, there is a problem there that the parent is apparently unwilling to recognize or unable to resolve. The answer is to remove the child from the stressful situation until the problem is resolved.

The crew probably gave the family some time to get the child settled down and to quieten down, but when it didn't happen (and I suspect, when it was observed that the parent didn't seem to care to quieten the child down), the disruption had to be removed from the plane.

Everyone has paid his fare and has the right to a somewhat peaceful, safe flight.

There are well behaved 2 year olds in the world. Travel is hard on everyone. Mild kid-friendly drugs will help with an excitable 2 year old who is forced to endure travel. It's good for the child and good for everyone else.

[Hawkeye-X]

24. I did a lot of reading, before taking my 6 week old son to NYC from DEN

he was immediately given a pacifier upon takeoff, and again upon landing.

Now he's 8 months old, and he'll be going back to NYC next week with his mom on a solo trip.

That scares me.

And we're taking him to Las Vegas for the first time on Thanksgiving weekend, and I'm looking forward to it.

Hawkeye-X

[GoddessOfGuinness]

199. Why does it scare you?

Did you have difficulties going over?

[riverwalker]

30. I'll take a screaming kid over cell phone blabbers

anyday. I'm sitting in a nearly empty airport lounge last week trying to read the paper and some asshole plunks herself down next to me blabbing away on her phone. Lady, go find a corner for conversation. You are polluting my ears. Your verbal NOISE is as offensive to my ears as a fart would be to my nose. (I spose you do that too...) Forcing me to listen to your banal one way conversation is as repulsive as making me watch you vomit, and just as rude.
I give her a GLARE that would freeze the warts off a toad as I get up and move as far away from her as possible.
Give me a screaming kid anyday.

[SheilaT]

34. I was once on an overseas flight

with my two year old. He was fine until about ninety minutes before landing he woke up from a fitful sleep and started yelling because he did not want to be touched or held, wanted instead to be by himself which was not possible in a full coach section or an airplane. He yelled for a good thirty minutes, until he woke up enough to calm down.

This was a kid who was otherwise a good traveller, but I did feel sorry for anyone within earshot of him. Yes, I know that all the kid haters here on DU think that no one under the age of 16 (or maybe 21) should ever be allowed on an airplane, but they obviously have never been kids themselves. Nor have they ever travelled with a young child in tow. And frankly, those of you who don't have kids are not entitled to an opinion here.

[Zavulon]

39. Oh, yes, we most certainly ARE entitled to an opinion.

If I - as someone who is not a parent - am not entitled to have an opinion on loud kids on an airplane, you're not entitled to criticize Bush / Bush / Reagan unless you've held the office of President of the United States yourself.

The arrogance of your post is almost amusing.

[liberalhistorian]

44. If you've never been a parent, then you don't know what

the fuck you're talking about and need to STFU. I realize those without kids will often feel far more smug, know-it-all and superior to parents, but you're really not. Go stew in your selfish entitlement; that way, you won't have to be bothered by the real world in which children are almost never perfect angels no matter how good the parents and in which parenting isn't nearly as easy and simplistic as you so mistakenly appear to believe it is.

[Psephos]

51. Let me guess...you're a parent. ;) n/t

[Zavulon]

57. No YOU need to

STFU. Your decision to have kids is a choice on your part, and your assumption that we who don't make that choice need to swallow any shit that comes along because of YOUR choice is as arrogant as you are ignorant and inconsiderate.

Respond if you want, but you'll be on ignore before you even read this, which means I won't see your response. Parents like you disgust me.

[Demit]

58. On the other hand, liberalhistorian, if you're not childless, then YOU don't

know what the fuck you're talking about. I wasn't going to post about the crying child in the plane, but reading that being childless is a 'selfish entitlement', and because I'm childless I don't live in the 'real world', well, that does crisp me.

Calling me selfish for not having had children is positioning yourself as selfless and noble simply because you had them. You are the one not living in the real world, if you expect everyone around you to be indulgent of you simply because you have children. Being a parent is not a free pass to put everyone around you in extreme inconvenience. THAT to me is the very definition of selfishness.

[NashVegas]

82. Childless Or Not Has Zero To Do With It, IMO

Social manners are not dependent on the ability to replicate.

That someone would tell a person writing an opinion on a message board to STFU at the same time demanding a planeload of people accept his or her screaming kid, says just how unnecessary it is to be a fully mature individual in order to bear children.

[liberalhistorian]

124. I don't at all consider those who've never had children to

be selfish or entitled, far from it. My own husband has never had children and he's the kindest, most selfless person I know. I think it's a very personal choice that's no one else's business. Having children because of social pressure to do so, and not because you really want to, which is how far too many people become parents, is actually more selfish than recognizing that you don't want children, for whatever reason.

What I was referring to is the notion that some childless people have that THEY are somehow "superior" to parents, and the fact that they are often clueless regarding children, child development, what's normal for children at each age and what parenting involves. Many have a very simplistic view of parenting that bears no relation to reality. And many expect, and feel entitled, to live in a world completely unencumbered by children and feel angry that parents dare to take their children anywhere at all. THAT is the selfishness and entitlement I was referring to and it's as bad as parents who think they should be able to bring their children anywhere they please, no matter how inappropriate.

[Withywindle]

165. Um...anyone sitting in the vicinity of a loud child has a right to an opinion about it.

The noise FORCES people nearby to have an opinion, whether they wanted to originally or not.

I've never been a parent. I've never wanted to be. I don't ever intend to be. I really don't have much of an opinion about children either way in general, because I don't find them very interesting as a "class" of people. The ones I've known--well, they're individuals, just like adults: some are amazingly cool, some are complete turdburgers, most are somewhere on the spectrum in between.

But ANYONE who goes out in public EVER will have opinions drawn about them by strangers, like it or not. And if I'm on, say, an airplane, I GUARANTEE you I will have opinions about anyone being loud and disruptive, whether it's a child or a drunk. And I will express those opinions. My opinions about anyone relentlessly shrieking (and that person's companions who allow it to continue) will be unflattering whether the person in question is 3 or 33.

So yes, noisy children and their frustrated parents will continue to exist on airplanes. And so will the people who think it's a totally vile experience being stuck near one. It's a conundrum. :shrug: Life's like that. YOUR perfect world, in which people who find screaming children offensive will just shut up and go away, doesn't exist either, and YOUR sense of entitlement is in no way superior to ours.

[liberalhistorian]

43. I was on a flight once with a woman

with an infant and a three-year-old. I had my five-year-old with me, who was busy watching the wing and the clouds out the window. The baby was asleep and was fine until about fifteen minutes before landing. Then she started crying and wouldn't stop, then started screaming as her ears began popping. The poor woman did her best to stop it, doing all the "parent" tricks, to no avail. The attendant came up and, instead of being helpful, was very rude, practically yelling that she needed to "do something" when she WAS doing everything she could do. This just upset the baby even more, which flustered the mother even more, which got the three-year-old upset.

Since my own kid was doing okay, I went over and tried to help. I kept the three-year-old busy while she continued to work with the baby, finally getting her to take a pacifier, which helped her ears during landing. I don't know what the hell the damned attendant thought the woman could do, since this was a baby, for God's sake, you can't "tell" it anything and there's only so much you CAN do with them in those situations.

[tomm2thumbs]

61. can't they give them a warm-steam helmet - to loosen their ear wax and gently relieve pressure?

and low and behold - the same device also dulls the screaming - whoa!! two for one benefits

[Rowdyboy]

48. Fuck that shit. Reproducing does not make your opinion a damn bit better than mine....

I'm sick of people assuming I should meekly accept their out-of-control children behaving like demons because they lack basic parenting skills.

I have great sympathies for mothers with uncooperative children but NO sympathy for mothers with your attitude ("...frankly those of you who don't have children are not entitled to an opinion here...". Absolutely infuriating.

The fact that you chose to produce offspring does not give you any special rights. Its a choice, not a requirement. I have rights too, whether you appreciate that fact or not.

[Wizard777]

76. In most states it's against the law to discipline your child. It cuts down on the states jail biz.

If you find a gun in your child's room and beat them within an inch of their life. They will put you in jail. Yet let your child take that gun out of their room and when a cop shoots and kills him. They just pin a medal on him. If Mom and Dad can't beat them within an inch of their life. A cop should not be able to shoot them. He should have to give them a good stern talking to and a time out.

[katkat]

50. Sheila, dear

We're entitled to an opinion because we're the ones you inflict your little badly behaved monsters on for hours in a captive environment.

[Le Taz Hot]

72. Honey,

when you stop taking my tax money to educate your kid(s), THEN you can tell me I'm not entitled to my opinion.

[Cass]

118. If you attended public schools taxpayers paid for your education.

Using that as a cudgel against parents is unfair.

[liberalhistorian]

119. So MY tax money doesn't help pay for your public services,

fire and police, road upkeep, social security, medicare, health care, libraries, public hospitals, etc., etc., etc., etc.? So those same children whose education you resent paying for won't grow up to pay for the same, as well as assist you with services as you get older, etc., etc., etc., etc.? So we don't do the hard work of raising those who will grow up to provide such services and help pay for them? GET. REAL.

Funny how the anti-child brigade here doesn't like the fact that they not only have to breathe the same air as children but help pay for their schooling as well, but they have no problem at all with others, including those same grown children, paying for THEIR services. Interesting. And hypocritical.

[salin]

77. I flew from Copenhagen back to the US... two rows back a chattering 2-3 yr old

about every forty seconds... loud: "Daddy, Daddy..." followed by some request. It was annoying - but after time I was able to tune it out. Not a big deal. Have to admit it was easier to dose off, after the child did so.

Childless traveler here, but clearly a more tolerant one than others.

[EFerrari]

111. I had one take along baby and one super fussy one.

It would later turn out that Nick was ADD but ADD didn't yet exist as a diagnosis. We just didn't use public transportation until he was older. I figured if he annoyed the hell out of me, strangers would be even more annoyed.

[bitchkitty]

133. Whoa there.

I respect the public's right to breed, but I shouldn't have to suffer the consequences of people who refuse to control their children.

That said, if I were sitting next to you on that flight, I would have been sympathetic. But yours was obviously a different situation. In the article, it's obvious that the woman had learned to ignore her bratty kid, and forgot that everyone else around her did not have this ability, and were suffering.

[fishwax]

163. that's a rather revolting attitude

"And frankly, those of you who don't have kids are not entitled to an opinion here."

:eyes:

[Zavulon]

41. Good.

I hope this is a trend that continues. I'd rather endure a flight full of smokers and farters than a kid screaming non-stop.

[maglatinavi]

54. child in airplane

I don't think that commentators read the info well. Mom was waiting for the plane to get off and "feed the child 'confident' he would fall asleep as had been her experience". I think the attendants should have been more understanding and maybe suggest to mom if feeding the infant would help... and any way, what was wrong for a child to want the plane to go? ... it couldn't have been so bad... sorry, I go with the compassionate DUers ... There are so many things that can be done to pacify a child. In this instance, it seems the attendant only made the mother nervous and confused. I have flown many times, and luckily, I have always seen kind, gentle and courteouus attendants, and above all; kind... Kudos to the compassionate understanding DUers... Hope the non impatient DUers are punished with the curse of Medea with screaming intolerable kids or grandchildren ... :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :kick: :kick: :kick: "triple kick their derriers".

[tammywammy]

55. According to this article

The child was screaming so loudly that the other flyers couldn't hear the preflight safety instructions.


http://www.mercurynews.com/travel/ci_13680219

Southwest Airlines has apologized to a San Jose mom who was kicked off a plane along with her unruly 2-year-old son earlier this week.

But Southwest spokeswoman Marilee McInnis told the Mercury News the airline did not regret its decision to yank Pamela Root and her son, Adam, off the plane — which flight attendants made in the interests of safety, she said — just the inconvenience it caused the family.

Root said Friday she accepts Southwest's apology, "and in the future we just hope that children are not separated from their luggage."

The crew bounced Root and her son off a flight in Amarillo, Texas, on her way home to San Jose because passengers could not hear preflight safety announcements, McInnis said.

"We have to abide by FAA policies and be able to deliver safety announcements," she said, adding that the crew tried to soothe the child. "Our flight attendants gave the child juice and coloring books, and we're sorry she was inconvenienced."

-snip-

[tomm2thumbs]

63. unable to issue safety announcements sure seems like a good reason to me

thanks for posting that detail

[Zavulon]

59. Well, you and I don't completely agree on this, but

you managed to avoid arrogance, smugness and just being an overall ass by actually discussing it like an adult. Well done and much appreciated.

[islandmkl]

52. is it possible to:

1) not want to be subjected to a tantrum of whatever nature without being described as a child-hater?

2) expect parents to know all the tricks that some of the posters apparently know BEFORE taking their children on flights?

3) not expect the flight attendants to be ready, let alone prepared, to take 'calming matters' into their own hands, when the parent(s) have not apparently prepared themselves and their child(ren) for some expected, and not unforeseen, experiences? is this really airline employee responsibility, to know how to not only 'take care of your child', but replace the parent in the situation? will the mom or dad involved then get up and see if i need another drink?

4) not have kids, have a boatload of kids, be a kid...whatever...and know what the hell to do in such a circumstance, when one has made NO apparent effort to prevent the situation?

yeah, flying is bad enough, at times...but, if you don't know what to do in a 'personal situation', don't expect the airline to take care of YOUR situation, as they are NOW BUSY taking care of THEIR situation...

[NYC Liberal]

62. I'm an adult. Should I get to be as loud and obnoxious as I want to?

Some will say "But you have the choice, you're an adult."

That is true, but the effect is still the same. If I, an adult, scream at x decibel level, and a child screams at x decibel level, why should one be more tolerated than the other? Both are equally loud and equally annoying.

[tomm2thumbs]

64. screaming can damage others' hearing so the folks on the plane could probably

sue Southwest if they DIDN'T remove the baby. It isn't like folks could ask to be seated in another room like at a restaurant.

I would love to know if anyone has ever tried screaming back at a screaming baby to see if they get punished but the baby's parents don't.

[NYC Liberal]

65. Yep absolutely, I made a similar point upthread

Perhaps designating certain flights as "crybaby flights" (like they do with those crybaby matinees) would work? I don't know. I do know that having screaming babies in a very small, confined space for hours, especially after having paid whatever outrageous ticket prices and baggage fees and everything else, is really not acceptable.

I agree with what SouthWest did here.

[No Elephants]

73. Would this be the official "Get off my plane's lawn!" thread?

[NuttyFluffers]

74. Screaming Baby Airlines seems more and more like the logical compromise...

if we had flights that catered to parents with young children -- and that everyone else could avoid like the plague -- then we could have a more harmonious flying experience.

but then my utopia is festooned with bubbles, glitter, and unicorns as well...

[crim son]

80. Stories like this one really piss me off.

Sometimes you MUST take your two-year-old on that flight, and they are bound to be disruptive at times. Get over it. I'm reasonably sure that most people who have a problem with noisy kids haven't had any, which means they haven't a clue and ought to defer to those who do. My youngest son was a nightmare going anywhere, by whatever means, until he was about four. He isn't spoiled, lazy, stupid, high on sugar or anything like that... he was born with a serious need to express himself. Now he does it with words but as an infant, he cried and screamed and yelled and there was nothing we could do about it. A doctor gave us a sedative for a cross-country flight but it turns out that Henry is one of those kids who gets hyper when most kids would fall asleep, so even though we planned for his misbehavior we still screwed up and were glared at for the whole seven hour flight. Thank God we weren't removed from the plane.

People have no patience or empathy any more. WTF is wrong with us? And by us, I don't mean me. :P

[Hepburn]

90. What empathy did you show for those who had to put up with your child?

Seems you want all the consideration and had none for those who had to endure whatever your child did. What don't you understand about the fact that he was YOUR problem?

[slackmaster]

93. Anyone who MUST take a disruptive child on a plane should provide earplugs for the other passengers

Just to make it fair.

[Demit]

108. Why MUST you take a two year old on a flight?

If you are relocating to another continent, I suppose. But short of that? You posit it as if it were immutable fact.

There are alternatives to flying with your infant, which are possibly even kinder to them & their comfort. But parents these days decide that their own convenience not only trumps everyone else's, it must further be HONORED. As if it is a sacred right parents have to do whatever is most convenient for them. Where are your own manners, for christ's sake, much less YOUR empathy for those around you?

There are limits to rights, as you ought to know, so your right to travel wherever you want with your infant and claim that you MUST, so that everyone around you has to 'get over it,' is limited by others' rights not to suffer your disturbing the peace.

It's amazing the entitlement that people lay claim to when they have small children. Their convenience is an absolute, and everyone around them should be the ones to demonstrate empathy—for THEM. And if they don't, they are the ones called inconsiderate.

Ironically, YOU are the one who doesn't have a clue, with your talk of empathy.

If your child is a screamer when he's small—and it is riotously funny that you call that a 'need to express himself'—there IS something you can do about it. Till he's past that stage, use your head and keep him home. It might be a little inconvenient for a couple of years, but part of being a parent is sacrificing your own convenience sometimes, instead of blithely transferring the inconvenience to others.

[WVRICK13]

83. A No Win Situation

I hate being on flights with unruly children, but there are no easy solutions. A parent can't give them a swat on the fanny or they go to jail under our current laws. A two year old is not at an age where you can reason with them, have you ever tried to do that? So we have a child you can't reason with due to their developmental point in life. A parent who can't use a small amount of physical control (swat to rump) because of the law. A mother who may not have a choice but to fly with the child. All of this combined with a plane full of touchy adults. I don't see an easy solution and I feel sorry for everyone involved, including the airlines. What bothers me is the five or six year old who is just as unruly and the parent can only say things like, "Johnny, stop hitting the nice man on the head" (yes, it happened to me on a flight). I remember pitching a fit in a store at the age of seven. It seems I wanted a toy and was about to bully my way to ownership. My mother, who was never abusive but in control, calmly lowered my pants in a store full of people, bent me over and swatted me on the rump. I can tell you, I never pulled that stunt again. In fact, that is one of two times I think she used physical force with me and it sure got my attention.

[No Elephants]

107. I'e seen parents swat crying tots. I've never seen the tot stop crying after the swat, though.

[WVRICK13]

167. I Agree

where a two year old is concerned. They aren't really able to understand swats either. Sometimes we just have to tolerate things our parents tolerated with us. I have found that distracting two year olds works best. Get their mind on something else.

[liberalhistorian]

121. There was a case a few years ago of a woman who

permanently lost her children because she disciplined them on a flight when they were fighting and the attendant came over and yelled at her to stop. The woman was so tired and frustrated at that point that she threw some tomato juice at the attendant. This resulted in a felony conviction and the children being taken away from her. So you just can't win in these situations.

[marshall]

91. My three year old son has been on seven trips by plane

That's fourteen flights--three of them long international flights. And I was by myself with him in all but two. I prepare ahead of time, adjust his sleep habits so that he is more likely to doze off during flight, have plenty of snacks, toys that don't make noise, a seat by the window so he can look out, and his favorite movies on my iphone for him to watch. I also take plenty of various kinds of medicine in case he gets sick in flight.

Never had a problem. It just takes preparation.

[MrsMatt]

101. +1

my experience as well.

[harun]

207. God bless you :-).

[slackmaster]

92. There are better ways to handle cranky kids

[marshall]

105. I'd much rather pass that out to the cranky passengers

The kids could scream all they want and the passengers will be placid and happy.

[Blandocyte]

132. Totally-- but not for the kids, for me

Screaming kids near me? Great excuse to buy those spendy little bottles of wine SW offers. That's the only time I can justify the splurge. Couple of chards, then put on the noise cancelling headphones and listen to some music. Niiiiice.

[robo50]

96. Ppoorly behaved children, sick children, children under 2

Just should NOT be on airplanes, period!

Airplanes are for well behaved and healthy people, period.

If you have a child of any age that cries and screams uncontrollably, or is sick, keep the kid home.

[Hello_Kitty]

115. Thank you

I don't care what people say, the vast majority of people schlepping babies and toddlers on planes are going on vacation. IOW, a non-essential reason. What on earth is a BABY going to get out of a trip to Dubuque to see Aunt Margie? IMHO no kid under 4 should be on a plane for other than a relocation of the family or an emergency.

[MrsMatt]

140. perhaps the point is that Aunt Margie

gets something out of the visit.

[WriteDown]

99. Contrary to popular belief, 2 years olds CAN BE well behaved...

Southwest is #1 in my book.

[Mariana]

102. Yes they can, and indeed most of them ARE well-behaved.

I agree with Southwest's actions, too.

[NashVegas]

171. By Far, the Majority of Small Children I've Seen On Planes

Were never much trouble at all, any many are a hoot.

[No Elephants]

109. Not 100% of the time, though.

[WriteDown]

122. Pretty much...

My girlfriend is an LPC with a specialization in play therapy. Its amazing how a 2 year can behave when they are parented correctly. The excuse "kids will be kids" is often used by parents that do not have a clue.

[robo50]

126. I often travel to Florida where all families in the Northeast go

for winter vacations. It seems like children who go to Florida with their parents are never well behaved. They cry, the scream, they get sick on the plane, they tie up the restrooms for 20 minutes doing who knows what. They always take seats behind me, next to me, in front of me.

All the well-behaved old folks who hardly can walk and need wheelchair assistance are far away from me...I get the cranky kids who think nothing of dropping their ketchup covered french fries on my light new tan chino pants.

I have an all-airline wide solution for parents who insist upon taking children out of school or day care on mid-week school week flights to Florida: charge TRIPLE for children flying while school should be in session. And by that I mean from 7 AM Monday to 4 PM Friday. This will give adults a running lead on getting a reasonably priced flight that is virtually kid-free. Oh, dear, I think I just gave the airlines something else to charge ME for, a kid free flight premium !

[Cass]

127. I didn't get the impression she was being willfully careless about the other passengers...

I just think she was overwhelmed with it all. I've been there with my son and it is a horrible feeling. Sometimes despite your best preparation and intent things can go south real fast.

One thing I learned early on when my son was a baby was to not take him anywhere if he was hungry or tired if I could avoid it...that can lead to epic meltdowns. From the story it sounds like it might have been what triggered the little boy's outburst. She planned to feed him once they were airborne, probably thinking the meal would keep him occupied and help him settle down to take a nap afterward, but being hungry and maybe tired was a recipe for disaster. On the subsequent flight she fed him before the flight and he was alright so maybe that's what the problem was. Maybe some crackers or juice on the first flight would have helped for those few minutes until she was able to feed him.

I wonder how many on this thread who are unsympathetic to crying babies were perfect angels as children? How many outbursts did you have as a child that annoyed nearby people? I am not making excuses for parents who willfully ignore their children's misbehavior, but I think we should try to cut some slack in certain situations with crying babies.

[Hello_Kitty]

129. I had horrible ear pain when I flew as a toddler

Yet my parents dragged me on trips to see various relatives anyway. I remember screaming in agony but I don't remember the trips themselves at all. I hope my parents had a good time. This was back in the early 70s, before the Cult Of Parenthood took hold and people started thinking they were entitled to special deference because they procreated. My parents were just being selfish jerks.

So to answer your question, I most assuredly was NOT a perfect angel on planes until I was about 5 or so. At that point my folks were putting my sister and me on planes unaccompanied.

[Cass]

138. Ear pain from flying is excruciating. I had it once as an adult and was nearly in tears over it.

I couldn't imagine going through that as a baby. You must have dreaded those trips.

My son first started flying when he was 5 months and thank god he never had an ear pain problem. I kept a bottle or sippy cup handy for takeoffs/landing and that must have done the trick for him.

[Hello_Kitty]

128. Let's not forget that kids fly for FREE on a lot of flights

And parents still have the nerve to act like it's a horrible imposition to have to make them behave.

[carlyhippy]

137. I've had screaming babies on flight, talky toddlers, toddlers who coughed incessantly

I guess I just put on my earphones and turn on my MP3 player and voila, no more sound. I guess being a parent I can understand some situations, these kids are small, if anyone of you has had a small toddler, you know that they have a mind of their own, geeze people. Just pack an MP3 music player and some earphones if it bothers you so much. .....now for the seat kickers, just turn around and ask the parent to stop the kid from kicking or trade seats with the kid, the rowdy kids who are climbing all over people, tell the flight staff, they don't need to be running amuck on a plane anyway for safety's sake.

[pink-o]

141. Since this situation deals with airline travel, I've some knowledge I can impart.

I work as ground staff for an airline in SFO (not Southwest, although I think they're a pretty good airline.) I've been doing this job for 20 years, and I can tell you, it's not fair to demonize the parents, nor is it fair for parents to just assume everyone's gonna love their little treasure and put up with bad behavior. Most parents are very conscious that their toddlers are at a difficult age and are trying their best--it's only a small percent that either act entitled or pay no mind to the kids when said kids are dying for parental attention. But it's that percent that sticks in your mind; you tend not to notice all the well-behaved kids who fly all the time.

When on board, external distractions are really important. You gotta have accrutemounts for your little ones, but remember DVD players and the like can't be used until you've reached 10,000 feet in the air. So picture books and non-electronic distractions are a must.

Also, my heart just breaks when the plane is ready to land, the cabin is being de-pressurized and suddenly every baby on board starts screaming. I used to have horrible problems with my ears when I flew; that's a pain I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy! But there's a solution: EARPLANES are small earplugs that help equalize the pressure during landing. If you have little ones who suffer--or you do yourself--check out this link:

http://www.drugstore.com/products/prod.asp?pid=12444&catid=10&brand=7846&trx=PLST-0-BRAND&trxp1=10&trxp2=12444&trxp3=1&trxp4=0&btrx=BUY-PLST-0-BRAND

Anyway, in defense of toddlers, I've dealt with ADULTS who act a lot worse!! Seriously throwing tantrums because they showed up late for flights and don't understand why we didn't wait for them. Or else having a fit when they're assigned a middle seat on a busy holiday weekend and start screaming about how they made their reservations 2 months ago (Newsflash: Christmas is the same time every year, lots of people fly around that time.) Or else spending 100 dollars in the airport bar and ruining their vacation when they're denied boarding due to intoxication.

At least toddlers still have a chance to learn manners. These 40 year old jerks are beyond redemption!!

[LanternWaste]

144. Guess I won't be taking Southwest anymore.

Guess I won't be taking Southwest anymore.

If I considered a crying/screaming infant as a serious problem to my well-being, I guess that would only mean I'm a pretty pampered adult without any real problems to my well-being.

[architect359]

145. Yup. That about sums it up about you. n/t

[LanternWaste]

146. I afraid I don't really know what that means...

I afraid I don't really know what that means, nor how it really sums anything or anyone up.

[tavalon]

151. They are trying to go after the world's shittiest airline, aren't they?

[Odin2005]

153. Sounds like a typical 2-year old.

This is moronic, give the mom and kid a break, HE IS 2!!! They aren't called the Terrible 2s for nothing!

[Endangered Specie]

161. And the problem is?

[Withywindle]

166. Considering how many flights I've been on that were full of screamers,

seat-back-kickers, aisle-runners, and moms who thought it was perfectly OK to change shit-filled diapers right there in the seat--and the flight crew did nothing about it--this kid must have been an extra-special demon-seed. Probably emitting frequencies that mimicked enemy fire and giving the military-veteran pilots flashbacks.

[Honeycombe8]

175. Everyone should not be made to suffer because a child is not raised properly.

Kids who are raised properly at how to have good manners and behave in public don't scream repeatedly on planes.

I remember my childhood - not a great time, granted - but if we were to scream, that would've been our last scream for a while. We simply weren't allowed to behave like "hooligans" out in public. Manners are for everyone...adults, kids, and even dogs.

Drugs are in order for excitable kids forced to travel. I have gotten them for my traveling pets - those that didn't travel well. And parents can get them for their kids. Not to knock them out. But you can get mild kid-friendly drugs to make them calmer.

If someone is disruptive, they have to be removed from the plane, regardless of their age. Everyone on the plane paid for their fare and deserve a somewhat peaceful, safe flight. On a plane, there is nowhere for the other passengers to get away from a screaming child (or a howling dog).

[junior college]

180. I think you need a lobotomy and also be put on some kind of a watch list.

"Drugs are in order for excitable kids forced to travel. I have gotten them for my traveling pets - those that didn't travel well. And parents can get them for their kids. Not to knock them out. But you can get mild kid-friendly drugs to make them calmer."

[Honeycombe8]

190. The kid was UNRULY, not sick. Hyper, maybe? Ask your pediatrician. It's acceptable

to give a child a mild drug to help keep them from being excitable on a plane trip. In fact, it's GOOD FOR THE CHILD in some instances, in keeping the blood pressure level and the nerves from running amuck. Plane travel for kids can be very irritating and hard. The senses are bombarded, and patience of even the mildest adults is tested. Imagine being a little kid and having to endure it, and expected to be quiet the whole time, to boot.

A mild drug is good for the child, good for the parents, and good for everyone else....IF the child is out of control, as this child obviously was.

The child wasn't sick. The child was UNRULY and YELLING. Do you think the crew just walked up and insisted they leave? I doubt it. I am guessing what happened is that after some time with the child behaving that way, a crew member approached and asked the parent to resolve the problem and control the child. I'm further guessing that the parent copped an attitude and/or failed to control the child. (Remember...the child wasn't sick and crying. The child was UNRULY AND YELLING.)

So they got bumped off the plane. As they should have. And everyone else had a relatively peaceful flight, which is what they paid for. And the parent that was kicked off the plane? I'm guessing she'll learn to control her unruly child, so she won't get kicked off the next plane.

[lonestarnot]

182. Aha ha ha ha ha ha! Drugs for social control group.

:evilgrin:

[Odin2005]

186. The kid is TWO YEARS OLD!!!

If a kid that age was perfectly quiet I'd suspect that the kid was abused and beat into silence, just like kids did were in the old days when they were "disciplined".

[Honeycombe8]

189. I suspect the parent wasn't even trying to quieten the child, so was asked to leave.

For the safety and peace of mind of the other many people.

Again...just because one person (even a two year old) is having a noise issue or temper tantrum, that can't be allowed to disrupt everyone else's peace of mind. Kids will, on occasion, misbehave for certain periods of time. Apparently in this instance, it was going on and on...and the parents weren't resolving it. It wasn't a case of a sick child or a crying child. It was a kid yelling nonsensical stupid stuff.

I agree with the crew and the airline's policy. Parents with UNRULY children (as opposed to SICK children) must be asked to leave if they won't resolve the problem. I've traveled many times with children. NEVER has a parent not been able to prevent a kid from standing on a seat and yelling stupid stuff. Nope. Parents prevent that sort of thing. If they didn't, they'd be removed from the plane, like in this instance.

[junior college]

179. Passengers need to deal with kids when they are screaming on airplanes

Parents generally try to do their best to get their children to calm down on airplanes. If you don't like a kid screaming on your flight then STFU and get off the airplane. If the plane is already in the air then cover your ears and deal with it. I had no idea how many kid hating "progressives" there are out there. Shame.

[Honeycombe8]

192. Ha! No, it doesn't work that way. This parent INTENTIONALLY DID NOT FEED

her kid, so that he'd sleep better later on, after she fed him. She KNEW he'd "be cranky." Cranky? This kid was YELLING, "Go, Plane, Go!" That's not a cranky kid. That is a child with no boundaries or rules. The mother's response? Article says she was "embarrassed." But teh article doesn't state she tried to quieten him.

The result after being kicked off the plane? The mother now handles travel with the child differently, now that she knows others may not put up with her yelling child for hours in close quarters. She now feeds the child BEFORE flight, so he'll be quieter and calm and sleepy at takeoff.

A little behavioral work works wonders (even with mothers).

The parents with unruly children who don't try to teach their children how to behave in public and be considerate of others? They need to STFU and GET OFF THE PLANE. If not, they may be removed from the plane for disruptive behavior.

There are many people on a plane, each one going various trials and tribulations. Some have just gotten off a 15 hour or 24 hour work stint. Some are sick. Some have cancer. Some are sleepy. Some have high blood pressure and are nervous people. Some are in mourning. Some are sad over a recent divorce or breakup or having to leave their city. Traveling kids can be disruptive, but if a parent is doing what s/he should, the disruption is intermittent and doesn't last too long, and most certainly the kid isn't yelling goofy "plane, go, plane" crap.

[Mz Pip]

183. Just flew back from NY

to San Francisco. There was a kid in the opposite aisle one row back that would randomly throughout the flight put out these bloodcurdling piercing screams - maybe every 10 minutes or so. On a 6 hour flight this can get pretty tiresome.

I've never been bothered much by crying babies on planes because I could just sit there and be thankful it wasn't my kid, but this really started to get to me. Even with the headphones on and the sound turned up this kid's scream got through.

I don't know what the solution is. I suppose if it were my kid I would have given him some benadryl but then there would be people who would complain about me drugging my kid. Can't win.

[Honeycombe8]

191. Imagine if that kid on your plane was yelling nonstop, instead of once in a while.

The child was unruly and yelling, nonstop, before takeoff. Can you imagine flying for hours being forced to listen to that?

[mule_train]

184. the crew should have sang 'hit the road, jack' just to finish it out

one time when i was in a bad mood, they sang the 'dont get up before the planse stops' threat to the tune of the flintsones

it was NOT funny

all kidding aside, everyone was a kid once - of course kids should be accomodated

[Tippy]

203. HOLY COW....where did the ADULTS go???????

Any one ever here of somthing called EAR PLUGS??????

[TriMetFan]

204. Rules..

There are rules/laws that need to be follow. Things changed a lot in the Federal Transportation after 9/11. I bet that the mom was asked to take care of her kid and when she couldn't or wouldn't she was told to hit the pavement.

[Taverner]

206. Sigh - why do I feel sorry for all parties involved on this one?

Not that one side is right or wrong - I don't have enough info for that