Clinton: 'We're not getting through' to Pakistanis

[The abyss]

Source: McClatchy/Yahoo

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan -- After three days of encounters with America-bashing Pakistanis -- who rejected her contention that the U.S. and Pakistan face a common enemy -- Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said Friday that "we're not getting through."



Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/mcclatchy/20091030/wl_mcclatchy/3345550

---

This may need to be combined with other “Hillary” “Pakistan” news breaks, not sure….

[wisteria]

1. It will take time for them to trust our motives.

There are to many factions working against us in that country right now, and there is distrust of the government. But, if we can win the hearts and minds of the common people and give them a reason to turn away from the Taliban, then we will have won more than half the battle. There are no quick solutions to this situation.

[gratuitous]

2. It could be . . .

I dunno, maybe if we quit bombing neighborhoods indiscriminately from aerial drones? But then, those furriners get so touchy about that sort of thing.

[Overseas]

7. Exactly. Do you think those drones got through, though?

They communicated on our behalf. Not at all diplomatic. Accidentally blew up some of those hearts and minds we profess working to win.

[Thrill]

3. Well. Its time to leave that part of the world

If Pakistan isn't going to really go after these guys. The War can't be won. Time to leave.

No one in either of those countries appreciates the sacrifice the US soldiers are going through. So whats the point? We keep sending our soldiers and our money over there and all the Sec of State can say is we're not getting through to them?? This is a waste of time and money.

[Amonester]

21. No one in either those countries appreciates the sacrifice (well said, but)

many in this country (CEOs, shareholders of MIC stocks, pol$ in congre$$, etc.) do appreciate the never-ending profit$...

and all they've got to say to get away with it is, they "support the troops"

wow, that's cheap

just sayin'

[Life Long Dem]

4. How do you put things together...

when you have the CIA doing their own thing? I bet the CIA has no problem getting through to them, I'd say they teamed up to go against anyone who comes in between them and the drug trade. This alone puts us off the team. Just tell the Pakistanis we'll buy all the weed they can grow. They'll be happy farmers then!

[Overseas]

5. But the drones are getting through. Robot aircraft with lots of "collateral damage"

And that deliberately abstract term collateral damage-- is meant to refer to only the bloody bodies of innocent bystanders,

but collateral damage brings with it even more collateral damage-- the hearts and minds of others we say we're in there to win.

Stop all the random bombings, or at least 90%.

I agree with the Pakistani women questioning Secretary Clinton that the off-target drone strikes resemble murdering and torturing people who have not even been indicted, before you can say habeas corpus.

Can we not expand our understanding of the greening concepts to encompass methods of warfare? Brutality is out. Random killing is so counterproductive. We need to win hearts and minds. We really do. That is why so many of us voted for our president. We thought he would do that for us-- and have seen him do many things to further that objective. So this sloppy robot killing just doesn't fit the profile. You don't want to create ten new terrorists with random brutality, when going after 5 in an alleged meeting.

No to the military industrial complex-- is it so cold that it would like us to continue creating enemies to feed the giant war machine? Or may we redeploy?

[alfredo]

6. This is about Pakistan and India.

Pakistan knows as long as we are there, India won't pull any shit. If they can keep us involved in Afghanistan and Pakistan, they won't need to expend troops and money keeping India at bay.

Afghanistan, like Kashmir, is just a pawn in the Afghanistan/India feud.

[EFerrari]

9. Precisely.

Afghanistan is a proxy although it would be very hard to explain that to those burying the dead.

[alfredo]

16. I do not trust Pakistan one bit. Hillary was right in smacking them around a bit.

[cosmicone]

10. This is about Pakistani ego and pipe-dreams of

conquering India like the moguls did back in the 12th century.

Afghanistan is needed for a "strategic depth" paradigm in this Pakistani ego and thus Pakistan created the Taliban to take over control from India friendly and widely popular Ahmad Shah Masood. The latter was killed (and had to be killed) in order to execute 9/11.

We cannot "get through" to Pakistan because Pakistan, Taliban and Al Q'aida are all one and the same. Our mistake was seeing them as different.

If Bush had invaded Pakistan instead of Iraq, the coalition would have been much bigger, American troop losses minimal (because Indian troops would have done the heavy lifting on the ground) and there would be no more Taliban/AlQ'aida/Pakistani army. In the aftermath Pakistan could have been balkanized which resolves the so called Kashmir issue. If there is no Pakistan, there is no Kashmir issue.

It would be far better for the US to join forces with India and get rid of the terrorist swamp that Pakistan is.

[Fumesucker]

13. ROFL.. Christians and Hindus gang up on Muslims..

That will *really* go over well in the Muslim world.

We only _think_ we have problem with Muslim terrorists now, if India and the US invade Pakistan it will trigger a wave of Muslim hate that will make 911 look like nap time at the preschool.

And yes, I know India has a substantial Muslim minority but nevertheless India is seen as a Hindu state, much as America is seen a Christian one.

[alfredo]

18. Opinion piece on Pakistan

http://www.pakspectator.com/like-gaza-muslim-world-wont-help-pakistan-when-india-attacks/

[edwardian]

15. "Terrorist swamp"

armed with nuclear weapons...the lie about Muslims wanting to nuke the West sure rings hollow now...Pakistanis are very good at intrigue and playing both sides of the field at the same time. America is not going to get through, more likely thrown.

[alfredo]

17. The first thing we'd have to do is secure their nukes. Nukes would make

a P/I conflict rather unpleasant.

[karynnj]

19. What about their nuclear weapons?

If attacked by the world, including India, do you think there would have a chance they wouldn't have been used?

[cosmicone]

24. The two or three crude compaction-fission devices Pakistan has?

hahahaha

They are only good for blackmailing the US and Pakistani military is too chicken to use them.

Besides, I am sure India, Israel and the US have plans to take the nukes out if need be.

[Trajan]

8. For those who prefer more than one sentence in a news thread ...

Clinton: 'We're not getting through' to Pakistanis

By Saeed Shah, McClatchy Newspapers Saeed Shah, Mcclatchy Newspapers Fri Oct 30, 6:26 pm ET

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan -- After three days of encounters with America-bashing Pakistanis -- who rejected her contention that the U.S. and Pakistan face a common enemy -- Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said Friday that "we're not getting through."

Prominent women and tribesmen from the North West Frontier Province delivered the same hostile message that she'd heard the two preceding days from students and journalists: Pakistanis aren't ready to endorse American friendship despite an eight-year-old anti-terrorism alliance between the countries and a multi-billion-dollar new U.S. aid package.

Clinton put her case directly to the public Friday in televised appearances in Islamabad , the Pakistani capital, fielding angry questions about the alleged activities of U.S. contractor Blackwater in Pakistan , the tough conditions that came with a $1.5 billion -a-year American aid package and alleged U.S. favoritism toward Pakistan's archenemy, India .

One tribesman bluntly told her: "Your presence in the region is not good for peace."

"We are fighting a war that is imposed on us. It's not our war. It is your war," journalist Asma Shirazi told Clinton during the women's meeting. "You had one 9-11. We are having daily 9-11s in Pakistan ."

-snip-

[tomm2thumbs]

11. your post made me smile

[JCMach1]

12. Zardari probably has lower approval ratings than 'W' at present in Pakistan

It's a total mess.

[Lagomorph]

14. Probably because the Pakistani's, like much of the world...

...are not the least bit interested in American democracy.

There are many who do love us, as they are taught to love everyone, but don't want to be like us or see us moving into the neighborhood.

[JonQ]

20. Their government is in an awkward position

on the one hand they need to back muslim extremists to keep them at bay and provide an outlet for their more enraged subjects, who are rightfully pissed off at how their lives are and need to be directed at external enemies so they don't realize the cause of their own suffering is their own government.

On the other hand they need US support to reign in the radicals so they don't get too powerful and turn the country in to another afghanistan (with the current crop of leaders facing beheadings).

So like many countries they are balancing the necessity of using america as a scapegoat for all their problems with using america as an ally to prop them up.

I expect no progress in this arena in the near future.

[Turborama]

22. Hardly surprising when Faux news is broadcast by around 100 Pakistani satellite & cable operators

As I mentioned in http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4103324">this thread a couple of weeks ago, http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x392974">this one last week & the conclusion of http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Turborama/84">a piece I wrote this week:

Drone attacks being a given, I wouldn't be surprised in the least that Pakistan's "rife anti-Americanism", as described later in the http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4103324">article, is also fomented by Faux being broadcast all over the country. Not exactly the best way to 'win hearts and minds', Can you imagine what Pakistani's image of Americans must be if the only American 'news' they see is from Far Right Christian/Islamaphobic Faux?

Check out how many satellite and cable operators provide it there...
Pakistan

Cable Plus
Video City Cable Network
Cable Network www.hccnp.net.pk
Rousch Power Plant, www.rouschpak.com
City Cable TV Network
Sahar Cable
SM Cable Network
Chiniot Cable Network
Fauji Kabirwala Power Company Ltd
Depalpur Cable Communication,
MB Cable Network
T A Star Cable Network
S.S Cable Network
Five Star
Excel Cable Network
Global Satellite Cable Network
Fox Tel Network
Video Link
Music Zone International
Web Com (Pvt) Ltd
Ain Dice Satellite Cable Network
Nayatel ( Pvt) Ltd www.nayatel.com
Four Star Cable Network
Fox Tel Cable Network,
Candid Associates
Trivision Multi Channel
New Global Communication
Rex Cable Network
S.A Cable Network
Nizari Communication
Tahir Cable Network
Esquire Cable Network
Bismah Cable Network
Seven Friends Cable Network
Tracks Entertainment
Classic Cable Network
Global Cable Network
Luvis Cable Network
Paramount Cable Network
Sky Net Cable Ent Network
Home Entertainment ( K C S )
Star Cable Network
The Citi Communication Reg
WorldCALL Telecom Limited www.worldcall.com.pk
Rana Cable Network
City Cable Gulshan
Mehran Network (Pvt) Ltd
Show Time
Star Cable TV Network
Mian Cable Network
K+ Entertainment cable
New Digital Cable
Kashmir Cable Network
New Hollywood Cable System
WorldCALL Telecom Limited www.worldcall.com.pk
Rana Cable Network
City Cable Gulshan
Mehran Network (Pvt) Ltd
Show Time
Star Cable TV Network
Mian Cable Network
K+ Entertainment cable
New Digital Cable
Kashmir Cable Network
New Hollywood Cable System
WorldCall Telecom Limited www.worldcall.com.pk
Wateen Telecom www.wateeen.com
Al-Saba Cable
Four Star Cable Network
Video White
ABC Cable Network
O.K Video Centre & Cable
Sony Cable Network
Faisal Cable System
Max Cable Network
Sahar Cable Network
Simky Cable Network
Simky Cable Network
Sony Cable Network
5-Signals Battalian
Gandhara Cable Network
Mardan Cable
The View Cable Network
Star Cable

From: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,184837,00.html

[sattahipdeep]

23. The Frontier Post

In an article in the Pakistani newspaper The Frontier Post,
Pakistani writer Zaki Khalid calls the Blackwater private security
firm a Crusader force operating as part of the global Zionist plan to
destabilize Pakistan.

Bush Was Referring to Blackwater When He Said, After 9/11:
"This Is Not a War, But a Crusade"

"This private army was first employed by former U.S. Vice
President and ace neocon Dick Cheney before he later on formed
the JSOC Joint Special Operations Group. The trapped mouse
Hamid Karzai himself has been availing of security and protection
services of both Blackwater and JSOC for quite a while."

Blackwater Is "A Very Disguised Form of the Powerful Totalitarian Elite Forces" Attempting "To Enforce a New World Order"

"Former Pentagon Inspector-General Joseph Edgar Schmidtz quit the Pentagon in 2005 to work for Blackwater. He is a known member of the Opus Dei and the Knights of Malta Masonic cults. It is interesting to note that during his tenure at the Pentagon, about $2 trillion went 'missing!'

"The Malta Star newspaper affirms a report filed in Egypt's Al-Ahram Weekly that historian Jeremy Scahill argued that 'Blackwater's employees share the same religious zeal of ancient Crusaders.' The writer is the author of the book 'Blackwater: The Rise of the World's Most Powerful Mercenary Army' in which he links Blackwater operatives and their tactics to those of the Knights of Malta.

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2009/10/pakistans-top-generals-no-strings-attached-to-aid-please/

:nuke:

[marshall]

25. They don't have a history of listening well to female leaders

Didn't they kill the last one who tried to speak up?