U.S. blocks Security Council criticism of Israeli raid

[Catherina]

Source: Salt Lake Tribune

U.S. blocks Security Council criticism of Israeli raid
The Salt Lake Tribune

Updated: 05/31/2010 10:17:30 PM MDT


United Nations » Israel faced heavy criticism in an emergency session of the United Nations Security Council on Monday in response to its deadly attack on an aid flotilla trying to breach the Gaza blockade, but attempts to issue a formal statement stalled after the United States rejected the strong condemnation sought by Turkey.

Turkey proposed a statement that would condemn Israel for violating international law, demand a U.N. investigation and demand that Israel prosecute those responsible for the raid and pay compensation to the victims. It also called for the end of the blockade.

The Obama administration refused to endorse a statement that singled out Israel, and proposed a broader condemnation of the violence that would include the assault of the Israeli commandos as they landed on the deck of the ship.


Read more: http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_15200395

[ORDagnabbit]

1. imagine my suprise.....isreal can kill with impunity, terrorize millions and hold nukes enough to

destroy the world and what do we do when they attack unarmed ships and kill humanitarians in international waters?

block any sort of responsibility leveled at them by the world community.

[LakeSamish706]

13. Even when the country that is trying to hold Israel accountable happens to be a

fellow NATO country with the US. I think that Turkey should threaten to drop out of NATO.

[madchick44]

48. We will now focus on Iran to divert attention away from Israel

Obamas Presidency depends on his supporting Israel. That is why his historical Presisency will really be a major failure. Move alnong...nothing new here.

[jaysunb]

166. This will be second term business.

Watch and see.

Now if we can just keep them from doing anything more deadly or stupid for the next 2 years, we will be able to reign in the rouge elements of the Israeli government.

[Confusious]

203. How so?

I see it being swept under the rug, just like everything else israel does.

Hell, we say "can I have some more please sir" when they kill americans.

[jaysunb]

212. Just watch and see.

Israels time as a client state has run it's course w/ the American people and "some" change is going to be a real surprise for some folks.
With no re-election threats, I think Obama will make a course correction in our relationship with them.

[Confusious]

223. Boy what world do you live in?

Obama's been staying the course on everything. Torture, Iraq, Afghanistan, wall street, etc.

He's going to change course on this? What, do you have a psychic connection to the white house?

[laughingliberal]

248. I hope that is correct but it sounds a lot like Nixon's secret plan to get us out of Viet Nam.nt

[Nihil]

284. That's a *major* assumption right there. (n/t)

:shrug:

[Tesha]

71. Turkey should take this directly to the World Court as a criminal action.

Bring it the International Criminal Court as actions against the individual
Israelis involved in the raid and bring it to the International Court of
Justice as an action against the state of Israel.

The USA has no veto power in those venues.

Tesha

[Ian David]

76. 67. Merchant vessels flying the flag of neutral States may not be attacked unless they:

67. Merchant vessels flying the flag of neutral States may not be attacked unless they:

(a) are believed on reasonable grounds to be carrying contraband or breaching a blockade, and after prior warning they intentionally and clearly refuse to stop, or intentionally and clearly resist visit, search or capture;
(b) engage in belligerent acts on behalf of the enemy;
(c) act as auxiliaries to the enemy s armed forces;
(d) are incorporated into or assist the enemy s intelligence system;
(e) sail under convoy of enemy warships or military aircraft; or
(f) otherwise make an effective contribution to the enemy s military action, e.g., by carrying military materials, and it is not feasible for the attacking forces to first place passengers and crew in a place of safety. Unless circumstances do not permit, they are to be given a warning, so that they can re-route, off-load, or take other precautions.

More:
http://www.icrc.org/ihl.nsf/385ec082b509e76c41256739003e636d/7694fe2016f347e1c125641f002d49ce

[The Stranger]

109. That assumes that the blockade is not a genocidal act.

You're sacrificing your credibility here.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

165. his what? ? ?

have you seen his other posts today?

[SnakeEyes]

272. The blockade isn't a genocidal act

There isn't a humanitarian crisis in Gaza. There is no mass starvation in Gaza. They regularly received supplies, food, education, and services via the UNWRA. Israel allows it. The reason Israel stopped the flotilla is because the purpose of the flotilla was to break the blockade not humanitarian relief. Their own spokesman even said so. Israel has the blockade in place to prevent weapons getting to Hamas who is a known terrorist organization that wants to continue it's war with Israel in the eyes of many. Israel said in advance of the flotilla that it would allow the supplies into Gaza if they would just dock first and let Israel make sure there were no weapons. The flotilla was propaganda designed to create an incident so they refused Israels offer. Gaza also shares a boarder with Egypt. Supplies could go through Egypt. Oh wait they can't because Egypt does the same thing for the same reasons.

[Wizard777]

110. They weren't close enough to the blockade to breach it.

It clearly says that they must "breach" or be "breaching" the blockade. The blockade was about another 77 miles away.

[truedelphi]

194. Thank you for posting that.

I had heard they were still forty miles out, but hadn't considered how close they were to the actual border of blockaded area.

[Tesha]

120. And all blockades are legal, right? Just because the blockader says so. (NT)

[laurel46]

124. Yes, the UN knows the laws and they, the world, condemned Israel. n/t

[Tesha]

130. Apparently, even Israeli Jewish lawyers don't agree with your interpretation of the law.

http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?id=177028

[lark]

171. Selective bolding

You bolded "breaching a blockade", but not AFTER PRIOR WARNING.

I have not heard anything about Israel issuing a prior warning, have you?

[LooseWilly]

177. UN Resolution 3314 defines Israel's actions as acts of aggression, making the blockade illegal.

As per: United Nations General Assembly Resolution 3314 (XXIX). Definition of Aggression

The General Assembly,


Basing itself on the fact that one of the fundamental purposes of the United Nations is to maintain international peace and security and to take effective collective measures for the prevention and removal of threats to the peace, and for the suppression of acts of aggression or other breaches of the peace,


Recalling that the Security Council, in accordance with Article 39 of the Charter of the United Nations, shall determine the existence of any threat to the peace, breach of the peace or act of aggression and shall make recommendations, or decide what measures shall be taken in accordance with Articles 41 and 42, to maintain or restore international peace and security,

{...}

Reaffirming the duty of States not to use armed force to deprive peoples of their right to self-determination, freedom and independence, or to disrupt territorial Integrity,

{...}

Any of the following acts, regardless of a declaration of war, shall, subject to and in accordance with the provisions of article 2, qualify as an act of aggression:

{...}

(c) The blockade of the ports or coasts of a State by the armed forces of another State;

{...}

In so far as Israel has explicitly stated that the blockade is in response to the election of Hamas politicians, Israel has clearly stated that they are using "armed force to deprive peoples of their right to self-determination"... they are in violation of the UN resolutions against acts of aggression, and as such, the blockade of Gaza is illegal.

Please feel free to point out that there's nothing anyone in the world can do about it, because the US is backing Israel, and no one (besides the Taliban) dares stand up to the US... but the argument that the blockade is legal and therefore the boarding of humanitarian aid ships is legal and justified... is bullshit. In so far as international law isn't a complete joke, this blockade is illegal.

[Scruffy1]

188. Who has Israel declared war on?

[Ignis]

190. Terra, of course. Aren't we ALL at war on Terra these days?

Wake me when we beat Terra!

[ProudDad]

192. I've already put all my money on Mother Earth... (n/t)

[Ignis]

196. Yeah, talk about truth in advertising for a change, though.

The moment I heard Shrub & Co. spouting this "War on Terra" crap, I thought how very true their statement was. And it looks like the BP Brigade has made great progress in that front!

But I'm still hopefully that the Old Lady wins. :D

[Pavulon]

228. Hamas, you know their friendly rocked shooting neighbors

yepper hamas is independent territory and a state of conflict exists. Blockades are of other peoples waters, not your own.

Sadly when all the drama blows over this will be the important factor in this stunt.

[laughingliberal]

246. I believe that means it's illegal, declared war or not. nt

[RoccoR5955]

251. How do you breach a blockade in INTERNATIONAL WATERS? n/t

[indepat]

88. It's as if the US would jeopardize everything, even the Republic, in its steadfastness

to support Israel's every action, no matter how illegal under international law, how inhumane, how reckless, how ludicrous. :shrug:

[Thornleylv]

132. They did say...

the U.S. supported and "proposed a broader condemnation of the violence that would include the assault of the Israeli commandos as they landed on the deck of the ship. wich is as good sign.

[sabrina 1]

242. The WH must be only reading Israel's version of events.

The IDF fired on the ships and wounded a ship's Captain BEFORE they boarded the ship.

[laughingliberal]

247. +1 nt

[WileEcoyote]

105. When you have a mortal enemy

This is exactly the concept you want ingrained in their minds. What the hell, it works!

[WhoIsNumberNone]

164. Business as usual then...

America is still Israel's bitch.

[pennylane100]

2. the US should be careful

Turkey can tell us to take our toys and leave their country if we fail to support this act of terrorism committed against one of their ships.

[hlthe2b]

5. Exactly... damn, I am tired of the hypocrisy committed in my name

I won't say more so as to avoid inciting those who believe Israel can never be criticized.

[Corrupted Edge]

163. Better said then I could've thought thought of

"damn, I am tired of the hypocrisy committed in my name"

As long as America keeps on supporting actions like this, and Israel does act like an a**hole often(to put it lightly),the other half of the planet will continue to grow hatred for us. And we pay for it, everyone who pays taxes is indirectly responsible for this... and the people don't even do this willingly, it's our government.

All this just sucks, it just sucks on an almost incomprehensible scale.

[bossy22]

78. it wasnt terrorism

The flotilla had the intention (and did attempt) to run a well known maritime blockade. Under international maritime law Israel had the right not only to board the ship- but sink it if it wanted too. In actuality, running a blockade can be considered and act of war.

Now im not saying israel wasnt politically stupid, but this was a political ploy. This flotilla knew exactly what was going to happen and made sure it did. Israel had warned NGO's that gaza was under a blockade and that all ships would be stopped and turned around.

[liquid diamond]

91. The flotilla was prepared alright...with clubs and knives.

[placton]

93. We have always been at war with Eastasia

and Obama will likely appoint a commission to look into this - my god, are you nuts?

[Lars77]

114. Of course it's a political ploy

The point is to point out to the world that the blockade is illegal.

The Israelis are lying through their teeth, using the well known Republican strategy of making claims so outrageous many people 1) Get confused 2) Stop bothering about the issue because no-one seems to tell the truth or 3) makes people think "if just one iota of their claims are correct, they are right to do what they did".


We have heard that this convoy was full of anarchists, rioters, terrorists, and hooligans and that they support, are funded or indeed ARE both Hamas and Al-Quaida put together.

The Israelis are using all the fuzz here to take the spotlight away from the fact that they are slowly killing 1,5 million people (800.000 children) in a bombed out prison of a city. Those people are the descendants of the people etnically clensed from their territory in 1948.

Those are 800.000 future terrorists trained by Hamas, because they are refusing the UN to build secular schools.


The IDF kidnapped one of my friends on a civilian vessel in international waters, he is now in a prison in the Negev desert, and my government has called for his immediate release, but the Israelis don't give a fuck.

I have always had a fairly balanced view, for example i despise Hizbollah and Hamas, and any other loons who use religion to control people, but i understand why people flock to them, i really do.

The Israeli's wants to create more and more muslim terrorists so that they can

1) Feed more money into their military-industrial complex
2) Scare their public opinion into supporting it
3) Make sure their stranglehold on US public opinion keeps American money flowing

And for what? Because a fucking book full of fairytale stories guides them, just like Hamas and Hizbollah. The only difference is that Israel is a state.


And by the way, who the hell believes that the IDF would rappel down on a vessel designated as hostile in the cover of darkness carrying paintball guns?

[Blue_Tires]

137. well said...

[readmoreoften]

153. +1

[Skelly]

162. Is not Egypt

also "slowly killing 1,5 million people (800.000 children) in a bombed out prison of a city."? People seem to forget Egypt also borders Gaza and has access. Why do they not open their border and allow anyone to leave?
They say they are planning to do it (open the border for aid) for a limited time. People are lined up at the gates, suitcases piled on top of cars, waiting. But Hamas gatekeepers, the ruling entity in Gaza, are "on strike" because of the raid. Hence, the people wait.

"Politics" doesn't just happen in the US. People suffering and dying due to 'politics' is a global affair.

[Chulanowa]

176. And people who go "YOU FORGOT EGYPT are themselves forgetting something crucial

Say Egypt does open that border.

Israel still controls that border on the Gaza side.

Israel will bomb the shit out of that border in order to enforce its blockade. Again.

Egypt is not really a participant here, It's just going along because it owes the United States pretty much every cent in the Egyptian economy. Egypt can back off from the whole scheme, and all that will happen is that it will hurt Egypt but not help Gazans.

[Skelly]

211. I don't think so

Hamas controls the Gaza side of the Egyptian border.

"Egypt, which has enforced the blockade with Israel since Hamas militants seized control of Gaza in 2007, said it was opening the border for several days to allow aid into the area as a humanitarian gesture. It was unclear, however, when Hamas guards at the frontier would let people out.

Several thousand Gazans — some in cars with suitcases piled on their roofs, others on foot — rushed to the Egyptian border, hoping to take advantage of a rare chance to escape the blockaded territory.

The Hamas Interior Ministry said authorities were not prepared to open the crossing and noted that government employees were on strike to mourn those killed in Monday's raid. Large crowds of people milled about the crossing, occasionally shouting at border guards, but there was no unrest.

Dozens of Hamas police with automatic weapons patrolled the area to maintain order."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100601/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_israel_palestinians

So again I ask, why hasn't some of the focus on helping the Gazans focused on Egypt?

[Chulanowa]

220. Moot point now

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6502H820100601

(Reuters) - Egypt will open its border with the Gaza Strip to let Palestinians cross, officials said on Tuesday, following a storm of international criticism of Israel's bloody enforcement at sea of its blockade on the enclave.

===

Looks like Israel's supporters are going to have to find another party to deflect blame for Israel's ethnic cleansing onto. Might I suggest Poland? Why? Why not.

[Skelly]

225. It is still very valid

Why did they need to wait for "a storm of international criticism" before opening it's border? Why for only a few days?

Egypt and Hamas control that border. Where is the pressure on them?

[Chulanowa]

267. Why do racists ask rhetorical questions?

Google it, fucker. it might prove harmful to your endless apologetics and Israeli cocksucking, as well as your insistence that it's all the fault of the evil hook-nosed arabushim cockroaches, but I promise you, the answers are all there.

Short version; Egypt depends on the US for pretty much everything. Egypt also depends on kissing Israeli ass in order to keep the US happy. when the Us and israel want egypt to hold a blockade, Egypt will hold the blockade.

Hamas holds the border? Really? So is it Hamas that flies Israeli jets and drops Israeli bombs on that border?

[Lars77]

226. It's because Egypt don't feel capable of dealing with 1,5 million refugees

no-one could absorb that amount of people. It is also worth noticing that Egypt is the largest reciever of US "aid" in the region, a brutal dictatorship who does not give a fuck about human rights. They will dance to the US and Israeli fiddle.

[Zoeisright]

145. Riiiiigght. Attacking an unarmed ship carrying medical supplies is, what exactly?

Being helpful? Good God, grow up.

[liberation]

158. Please point to the actual article of "international maritime law" referring to arbitrary blockades

and their jurisprudence, never mind their inalienable rights.

Cheers.

[abelenkpe]

160. Why is the blockade OK?

[Chulanowa]

183. You're wrong, actually

Israel had no such right, until the ships reached Israeli waters. The Israeli blockade cannot extend into international waters under any stretch of the imagination. Israeli waters were 77 miles away from the assaulted ship.

Israel could have waited three hours, and boarded the ship in Israeli waters with full protection of international law.

What Israel did instead was an act of piracy, murder, and kidnapping of over six hundred people.

It's the international waters thing that makes all the difference. I suppose Israel apologists are imagining that either every legal body in the world is lying, or that all waters actually belong to Israel or something, with how you're circling around pretending that Israel is justified and within its legal rights here.

When Hizbollah kidnapped two Israeli soldiers from occupied territory in Lebanon, Israel responded by basically flattening Tyre and Beirut. Israel considered this a just and legal act, and the United States backed its claim.

Food for thought, huh?

[harkadog]

238. JFK's blockade of Cuba was in international waters.

Was that illegal?

[ProudDad]

193. What part of "illegal blockade" are you too dense to understand? (n/t)

[Confusious]

206. A blockade 77 miles away?

It had the intention? Maybe you've though or said something about killing someone. We should haul you in for murder because you had the INTENTION.

[Pavulon]

269. You dont blockade your coast, you blockade somewhere else.(nt)

[laughingliberal]

249. Funny, they didn't turn them around. They took them to Israel and won't release the passengers. nt

[sabrina 1]

266. No they did not have that right. The world, every civilized

government, disagrees with you. The organizing of this humanitarian effort took months, the Israelis were notified and asked to lift the blockade as it is a violation of human rights, especially since by Israel's own admission it was put in place because the Palestinian people elected a government, democratically, that Israel did not like. That is NOT a legal reason for a blockade as has been known for a long time. You cannot legally enforce a blockade because you don't like the results of another country's elections.

The organizers were prepared to be contacted by Israel, maybe even boarded, they were NOT prepared for a violent, unprovoked attack. They were unarmed, carrying only humanitarian supplies.

Now we are hearing from witnesses that the people who tried to defend themselves were NOT using knives as Israel claimed, nor did they have metal pipes. Witnesses who were on the ship say they saw NO knives, other than kitchen utensils, and the 'pipes' were wooden not metal.

The more witnesses who are released, the worse it will be for Israel and the harder it will be for them to lie. Many of the people on those ships are highly respected individuals whose words mean something. This time, Israel will not be able to control the propaganda. Their best bet, I'll say it again, is to admit they were wrong. That would diffuse the anger, but all their denials, playing the victim which is ludicrous in this case, and lies will do is to increase the world's anger against them. They made a huge blunder from a political pov, best to try to salvage whatever they can and move on.

[New Dawn]

283. Israel is a fascist regime attempting genocide against the Palestinians.

The world has a moral responsibility to stop this by placing sanctions on the Zionist entity.

[SnakeEyes]

285. Hamas is militaristic regime attemping genocide against the Jewish people

The world has a moral responsibility to stop this by placing sanctions on the Islamiscist entity.

And I'm not sure you know what fascism really is and what a true fascist regime actually looks like.

[lark]

173. Hope they do

it would make our presence in Iraq a lot more troublesome, so some good will have come out of it. It's time some country stood up to Israel since the US NEVER will. It's so ridiculous, I think Israel could nuke America and still we'd give them billions every year to continue harassing their neighbors and non-jewish residents.

[EFerrari]

3. Chang-o-ramic.

[ozone_man]

101. Why am I not surprised?

No hope for change with Obama.

[lark]

174. Hope and Change are so yesterday

that it's totally forgotten today by this Administration. Instead they dither and cave in to the Repugs and Israel every time.

[Catherina]

4. a playground, cancer medicine and milk powder

Security Council Debates Criticism of Israeli Raid

by NEIL MacFARQUHAR
The New York Times News Service

UNITED NATIONS — Israel faced heavy criticism in an emergency session of the United Nations Security Council on Monday in response to its deadly attack on an aid flotilla trying to breach the Gaza blockade, but attempts to issue a formal statement stalled after the United States rejected the strong condemnation sought by Turkey.

Turkey proposed a statement that would condemn Israel for violating international law, demand a United Nations investigation and demand that Israel prosecute those responsible for the raid and pay compensation to the victims. It also called for the end of the blockade.

...

Late Monday night, the two countries were trying to work out their differences on the wording, including whether to specify that the investigation should be conducted by outsiders, diplomats said.

While condemnation of Israel in the Security Council is not uncommon, the criticism at the emergency session called by Turkey and Lebanon was notable for both its vehemence and for the broad array of countries demanding an independent investigation into the decision to fire on civilians in what they described as a humanitarian mission.

...

Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu of Turkey, whose country’s once close relations with Israel have deteriorated markedly since Israel’s invasion of Gaza in 2008, called the attack “tantamount to banditry and piracy; it is murder conducted by a state.”

Noting that the ships were carrying items such as a playground, cancer medicine and milk powder, he said that given the history of the Jews the Israelis should be more conscious than others of “the dangers and inhumanity of ghettoes as the one we currently witness in occupied Gaza.”

...
The United States, which habitually defends Israel in the council, said that the attempt to run the blockade by sea was ill advised. “Direct delivery by sea is neither appropriate nor responsible, and certainly not effective, under the circumstances,” said Alejandro Wolff, the deputy permanent representative of the United States. But he also described the situation in Gaza as “unsustainable” and called on Israel to undertake a credible investigation. Daniel Carmon, the deputy Israeli ambassador, scoffed at the idea that the ships were a humanitarian convoy — Israel had offered to bring the goods into Gaza over land — and said Israeli commandos acted in self-defense after being attacked with “life threatening means; live ammunition, knives, clubs, deck furniture and others types of weaponry.”

He described the organizers as linked to a variety of Islamic terrorist organizations, which the Turkish foreign minister called a lie.

...

http://elpasoinc.com/readArticleNYT.aspx?guid=FTP_NYTNS___W-WOR_929878_1.xml

[MindandSoul]

6. In my opinion, this is the biggest error in judgement made by Obama to this day

If this report is true. . .I do believe that Obama doesn't like to "react," but that he prefers to make his own mind based on ALL the information available. . .Once he does that, I hope he will join the rest of the "sane" world in denouncing Israel for this act!

[Catherina]

10. This isn't going to go over well "Muslims livid at Israeli bellicosity"

Obama promised the world change and people expected that. He got the world all fired up and people aren't going to be as complacent as they would have been without that promise.

Muslims livid at Israeli bellicosity

01 June 2010

JEDDAH: The killing of pro-Palestinian activists by Israeli commandos on a flotilla of ships carrying aid and hundreds of civilians, many of them Turkish, to the Gaza Strip has been described as a very sad day, not only for Turkey, but for the international community by Turkey's ambassador to Saudi Arabia, Ahmet Muhtar Gun.

Gun also expressed his sadness and concern at the killings, which have provoked international outrage. The brutal Israeli attack on civilians on the Freedom Boat, said Gun, is a disproportionate aggressive action against all international laws and human values.

"We protest strongly against the use of force against civilians who were just offering humanitarian assistance to the Palestinian people under siege," said Gun, adding that the Israeli deputy foreign minister is lying when he spoke on the news that there were weapons, explosives and arms on the boat.

"What could old men, children and women have as weapons and how could they attack well-trained and armed troops and with what?" he asked.

...

Turkey has in the past taken positive steps in mediating between Syria and Israel which resumed even after the Israeli invasion of Gaza in 2008, he said, adding, "But now frankly with the last incident, bilateral Turkey-Israeli relations are facing irreversible consequences."

...

Solaiman A.M. Solaiman, a member of the Saudi civil society in the Eastern Province, blamed Arab countries for the sorry state of affairs in Palestine. "Since 1970 our countries have done practically nothing to stop the murderous onslaught of the Zionist state. Israel has had a free rein. It continues to kill and maim Palestinians with impunity. And here are our countries playing politics and busy dividing the Palestinians into Fatah and Hamas," he said with an air that reeked of resignation.

"Now is the time to use oil as a weapon. Now is the time to cut off all diplomatic ties with the United States. Now is the time to dictate terms to the supporters of Israel; they are weak economically and we are relatively stronger. We should use our economic clout to force President Obama to stop aiding the murderers," said Solaiman, adding: "It is never too late to make amends and confront the bully."

...

http://www.zawya.com/story.cfm/sidZAWYA20100601033101/Israel's%20Bellicosity

[femrap]

96. If Saudi Arabia cuts

off our oil and China decides to join them and cut off trade with us.....well, the stores will be empty. Of course, you'll have to walk to the empty stores.

No light bulbs, no fans....think of all the products that the Rich White Boyz of the U.S. have sent to China to be manufactured so they could have bigger profit margins and a fearful labor force here.



edit for typo

[Confusious]

209. China gets it's oil from iran

They wouldn't join Saudi. Besides, Saudi needs the money from us to keep the terrorist schools going.

[femrap]

214. China would buy oil

from any country.

[Confusious]

221. Yes, but since they get most of it from Iran

Your theory goes poof.

[femrap]

224. Sudan?

Also Venezuela. They make biz deals with lots of countries.

poof you....you are confused.

[Confusious]

235. and in trying to hurt us for some UNKNOWN reason

They would screw themselves. Really, really smart.

I have something that's even scarier: You in charge of something.

[femrap]

252. Hey

asshole...we'll see who is right.

Go suck your dick....that should help the world just a tad.

[Confusious]

254. Yea, I figured the insults of a 10 year old would show up

Looks like I was right.

[The Stranger]

113. This isn't going to go over well with ANY HUMAN who is "livid at Israeli bellicosity"

[LakeSamish706]

15. Don' t hold your breath! n/t

[depakid]

28. Nothing will be bigger than the drill, baby drill endorsement

That will rank as one of the most ill fated and cynical errors of judgments in all of US history.

[glitch]

234. True. nt

[waronbanks]

45. Not gonna happen.

American politicians cover for Israel...its part of the game. I dont know why...must be the money. But they do and Obama is no different.

This constant suckin up to Israel is sickening and disgusting...when is this crazy shit gonna stop?

[PassingFair]

57. We need them more than they need us.

We need an ally in the Middle East that
we can count on.

Israel acts as an arm of the US in that
region. They are the police that make sure
we get "our" oil.

[27inCali]

180. problem with that is that Israel looks like a mere proxy

for Christian nations to control the Holy Land which Christians and Muslims have been killing each other over for some 1,500 years.

I don't see how that does anything but garantee for Muslim radicals trying to kill Americans

I guess the secret is that our leaders don't want to win the war on terror, they just want to drag it out.

[PassingFair]

184. Bingo. n/t

[glitch]

233. Enormous amounts of money to be made on the WOT. By a few. nt

[Cherchez la Femme]

241. What the

**** are you talking about?
How, and over whom, does Israel have ANY power over who supplies our oil?

As for "allies" in the Middle East, before Israel became a state we had no 'enemies' in the ME whatsoever.
Now... :eyes:

Are you a Christian? Didn't Jesus say something like 'if your right arm offend you, cut it off'? (could be 'eye' and 'pluck', or both).
Besides, we shouldn't need 'arms' in other countries. We should be doing honest business with other countries and not play World Police.
Might doesn't make right.

[PassingFair]

260. I'm not saying it's as it should be.

I'm saying it's as it IS.

Having Israel smack dab in the ME is like
having an arm of OURSELVES in the ME.

[femrap]

92. Google

AIPAC....the strongest lobby EVER. No one goes up against AIPAC and wins. J Street, a new more moderate organization, is trying to reduce AIPAC's power and bring a more sensible platform to the political arena.

By the US standing by Israel, the troops in the Middle East will face much more hostility. Did Obama think about that?

[Selatius]

61. It's a load of crap. If Obama criticized Israel over this, he would blacklist himself with AIPAC.

And they would no-doubt run right wing ads attacking Obama as an appeaser like Neville Chamberlain with Adolf Hitler and somebody who is soft on terrorism and is exposing the US to danger and potential attack by terrorists. He would be utterly destroyed at the polls as being too weak on national security. Labor in Israel could come to his defense, but Labor has been weak for years now.

[Odin2005]

75. Only cowardly, triangulating Centrists worry about that.

One should ALWAYS do the right thing, even if it is not "politically convenient".

[sweettater]

202. So, what are you saying

israel controls our government? Sounds like it. If so,I agree with you.

[Pavulon]

230. This conflict is church to many here. Here is a reality. It is unimportant.

it stopped being important in 1975 to us interest. Less so, after the USSR folded up. The conflict does not drive any US commerce, it is a distraction. In my opinion far less relevant than say the 6 million dead in the Congo.

They dont have the following this conflict does, not quite as popular.

Contrast this with the conflict over Kashmir, between India and Pakistan, that has direct implications on the US.

No one actually stops to use their knoggin and see this through the eyes of the people who set policy. Once you realize the powers are using IP as a wedge for their own means, it takes on a new angle.

Until this stops, there will be no peace for anyone there.

[Poll_Blind]

7. Well, I hope whatever Mr Obama thinks he's going to get from positions like that...

...he gets. Because that position is going to cost him and America, very dearly in the world political arena. Maybe it's cooperation from Israel on Middle-East peace negotiations with the Palestinians. However, that's sort of circular logic because if Israel was interested in peaceful resolutions it would not have gone about things this way.

There's no reason why the rest of the NATO members can't just...form another protection club without the U.S.

Then it'll be just U.S. and Israel against...uh, "the crazy people"?

PB

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Frank Booth]

9. Oh, for fuck's sake.

Giving a free pass to the murder of peace activists.

How ashamed of their son would Obama's parents be if they were alive today?

[Poll_Blind]

14. Well, technically he's not giving them a free pass, he's trying to...

...add wording which implies that the dead may have brought this on, at least partly, themselves.

Which is where for me, and apparently like 185/187ths of the rest of the world, phrases like "international waters", "innocent civilians", "armed commandos", "murder on the high seas" & "kidnapping and detention on foreign soil" are also figured into the mix.

I think it would be an extremely unreasonable position to believe that Turkey, which has something like 80-million people, is going to wake up Tuesday morning, still unsure of exactly who has been killed, who has been injured and how seriously, and which of their citizens is being detained at gunpoint in Israel...that they're all going to wake up Tuesday and just go "You know, maybe Israel's right on this."

Repeat for, shit, like at least 4+ other countries who also have had citizens killed, injured, kidnapped and forcibly detained on Israeli soil and who also have, as yet (to my knowledge), still not been given consular access

This includes 3 German Ministers of Parliament.

! ? (?)

PB

[Frank Booth]

19. I think equating the activists' use of deck chairs to attack commandos with the IDF's storming

of ships in international waters, their abduction of dozens of people, and their killing and wounding of dozens more counts as a free pass.

Throughout the day I've seen this narrative build that the activists brought this upon themselves, that somehow they deserved what they got. Now, the Obama administration is working from this same narrative. It's as if the official Israeli and American responses were coordinated.

[Hardrada]

21. Kind of the same people running it all so I'm not surprised.

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Selatius]

65. You'll be dead before Israel formally issues an apology to the family of Rachel Corrie.

They concluded in their reports that she acted foolishly along with the ISM. Basically, they blamed her for her death, but they try to deaden the blow by asserting her death was "regrettable."

[Ignis]

155. Well stated!

It beggars belief to think that Turkey will just roll over on this issue.

[ProudDad]

197. implies that the dead may have brought this on, at least partly, themselves.

Sort of like the Jewish resistors in the Warsaw Ghetto, hmmmm?

The whole Israeli thing is an example of violence and hatred begetting violence and hatred. Those in power over the Gaza Ghetto are almost indistinguishable from those in power over the Warsaw Ghetto...they learned their lessons well.

[sakabatou]

24. My sentiments exactly.

[bahrbearian]

26. Shhhs

[Purveyor]

11. Well this certainly gives us a preview of Obama's response when israel attacks Iran now doesn't it?

[Catherina]

16. That's a frightening and sobering thought

I couldn't have imagined a worse Memorial Day.

[truedelphi]

195. Or indicates that we may just have to fight that battle on

Israel's behalf.

If we aren't condemning this in the Security Council of the UN, then we citizens can see that our leaders are determined to make Israel's battles ours.

Much like how the very first oil pumped out of Iraq ended up in Israel...

[Chulanowa]

12. Well, it was a nice run while it lasted

Any fragments of validity that the US had in the middle east just evaporated.

Good job, Obama. Enjoy your Israeli olives, it's the only nice thing you're going to see out of the region for a long time. Just gotta ask yourself if those olives are so damn good as to be worth it.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Hardrada]

18. And his great Cairo speech to the Muslim world just went down the dumper.

Obama is such a disappointment that it is almost metaphysical!

[jonnyblitz]

20. and to think he was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize.

what a joke.

[No Elephants]

43. A least he gave it away, I know. Ice cold comfort.

[27inCali]

182. Nobel should ask for the peace prize back after this..

[ProudDad]

200. They should have asked for it back at the ceremony

after hearing his mealy-mouthed saber rattling speech to "accept" the Peace Prize...

Shit, even Henry Kissinger didn't have the gall or lack of taste to do that when he got the prize!

Obama, best Imperial stooge money could buy!

[CLANG]

22. god we suck

[Proletariatprincess]

23. I shouldn't be surprised...but I am.

This was such a blatant act of agression on the high seas against humanitarian activists that I believed that even Israel's client state, the USA, would squirm but go along with the Security council this time.
When it comes to foreign policy, Nader was right. There isn't a dimes worth of difference between the Parties. I'm disgusted with my country on so many levels at this point.

[inna]

25. Agree with pretty much everyone in this thread. K&R

[Catherina]

27. Israel and US Turn the Humanitarians into the "Aggressors" - Glenn Greenwald

Published on Monday, May 31, 2010 by Salon.com

Israel and US Turn the Humanitarians into the "Aggressors" Israel Attacks Aid Ship, Kills at Least 10 Civilians

by Glenn Greenwald

(Updated below - Update II - Update III - Update IV - Update V - Update VI - Update VII)


//snip//

It is appropriate that Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is scheduled to meet with President Obama on Tuesday in Washington, because -- as always -- it is only American protection of Israel that permits the Israelis to engage in conduct like this. Initial reports speculate that Netanyahu would cancel that meeting in order to return to Israel in light of this attack. But there would be something quite symbolically appropriate about having the U.S. stand at the side of Israel in the aftermath of this latest massacre, because it is only the massive amounts of U.S. financial and military aid, and endless diplomatic protection, that enables Israel to act with impunity as a rogue and inhumane state. So complete is the devotion of the U.S. Congress to the mission of serving and protecting Israel that it even overwhelmingly condemned the Goldstone report, which found that Israel and Hamas had both commited war crimes and possibly crimes against humanity during the Israeli attack on Gaza (the U.S. Congress, of course, never condemned the Israeli war crimes themselves -- only the Report which documented those crimes). Israeli actions are a direction reflection on, and by-product of, the U.S. Government, because it is the U.S. which enables and protects the behavior.

The one silver lining from these incidents is that the real face of Israel becomes increasingly revealed and undeniable. Not even the most intense propaganda systems can prettify a lethal military attack on ships carrying civilians and humanitarian aid to people living in some of the most wretched and tragic conditions anywhere in the world. It is crystal clear to anyone who looks what Israel has become, and the only question left is how will the rest of the world -- beginning with their American patrons -- will react.

As Americans suffer extreme cuts in education for their own children and a further deterioration in basic economic security (including Social Security), will they continue to acquiesce to the transfer of billions of dollars every year to the Israelis, who -- unlike Americans -- enjoy full, universal health care coverage? How is the revulsion justifiably provoked by this latest Israeli crime going to impact American efforts in the Muslim world (as but one of many examples to come, Al Jazeera reports that "Moqtada al-Sadr has called for a large anti-Israel rally across from the Green Zone in Baghdad")? How much longer will Americans be willing to pay the extreme prices for its endlessly entangled "alliance" with its prime Middle Eastern client state, whose capacity for criminal and inhumane acts appears limitless?

* * * * *

On a day when the meaning of "heroism" is often discussed, the people on these ships who tried to deliver aid to Gazans, knowing that they could easily find themselves in a confrontation with the Israeli Navy but doing it anyway in order to bring attention to the extraordinary injustice and cruelty of the blockade, are pure, unadulterated heroes.

UPDATE: Regarding the blockade of Gaza itself -- about which "Dov Weisglass, an adviser to Ehud Olmert, the Israeli Prime Minister : 'The idea is to put the Palestinians on a diet, but not to make them die of hunger'" -- this post documents just some of the effects, with ample links to U.N. reports, including:

* since the intensification of the siege in June 2007, "the formal economy in Gaza has collapsed" ( More than 80 UN and aid agencies <.pdf>)

* "61% of people in the Gaza Strip are ... food insecure," of which "65% are children under 18 years" ( UN FAO)

* since June 2007, "the number of Palestine refugees unable to access food and lacking the means to purchase even the most basic items, such as soap, school stationery and safe drinking water, has tripled" ( UNRWA)

* "in February 2009, the level of anemia in babies (9-12 months) was as high as 65.5%" ( UN FAO)

The Washington Post's Jackson Diehl, whose entire political world view is shaped by his devotion to Israel, today criticizes President Obama for rejecting "Bush's conclusion that the promotion of democracy and human rights is inseparable from the tasks of defeating al-Qaeda and establishing a workable international order." That's ironic, because if "human rights" played any role whatsoever in American foreign policy, the massive American aid and other protection for Israel which Diehl cherishes above all else would instantaneously disappear.

UPDATE II: Just ponder what we'd be hearing if Iran had raided a humanitarian ship in international waters and killed 15 or so civilians aboard.

UPDATE III: One of the ships attacked by Israel belonged to a Turkish aid organization, and it's been reported that among the dead are at least two Turks. Turkey today "warned that further supply vessels will be sent to Gaza, escorted by the Turkish Navy." Among other things, Turkey is a NATO member with increasing tensions with Israel. Its Prime Minister today condemned the Israeli action as "state terrorism." Amidst worldwide protests aimed at Israel, along with possible internal unrest if (as has been reported) an Israeli Arab leader was among the wounded or dead, it's possible that this incident could produce some serious unforeseen consequences for the Israelis.

UPDATE IV: So, to recap what seems thus far to be the central claim of Israel apologists: Israel is the official Owner of international waters (which is where the flotilla was when it was attacked). As such, they have the right to issue orders to ships in international waters, and everyone on board those ships is required to obey and submit. Anyone who fails to do so, or anyone in the vicinity of those who fail to do so, can be shot and killed and get what they deserve.

What's so odd about that is that the U.S. has been spending a fair amount of time recently condemning exactly such acts as "piracy" and demanding "that those who commit acts of piracy are held accountable for their crimes." When exactly did Israel acquire the right not only to rule over Gaza and the West Bank, but international waters as well? Their rights as sovereign are expanding faster than the BP oil spill.

UPDATE V: Israel's foreign minister is now actually claiming that attempts to deliver humanitarian aid to Gaza are "an attack on Israel's sovereignty." Is that supposed to be some kind of a joke? The only claim that I can recall that's remotely comparable is when the U.S. General serving as Commander of Guantanamo condemned suicides by three detainees there as an "act of asymmetric warfare waged against us." The U.S. and Israel are very adept at claiming victimhood: even when they're killing large numbers of civilians and locking people up in cages with no charges, they're the ones who are the suffering, wronged parties.

Thus, there are at least 10-20 dead passengers and 50-60 wounded on those ships -- compared to no Israeli fatalities and virtually no wounded -- but it's the passengers, delivering humanitarian aid in international waters when Israel seized their ships, who are the aggressors and were "attacking Israeli sovereignty." The only thing worse than this claim is how many apologists for Israel will start parroting it ( see Andrew Sullivan for more refutation of the claim that it was the passengers who were somehow the "aggressors").

UPDATE VI: Among the countries condemning Israel for its attack are Russia, Turkey, India, China, Brazil, France, Spain and many more. By stark contrast, the White House issued a statement which conspicuously refused to condemn the Israelis (Obama "expressed deep regret at the loss of life in today's incident, and concern for the wounded"), while the U.S. State Department actually hinted at condemning the civilians delivering the aid ("we support expanding the flow of goods to the people of Gaza. But this must be done in a spirit of cooperation, not confrontation").

Obama's call for "learning all the facts and circumstances" is reasonable enough, but all these other countries made clear that this attack could never be justified based on what is already indisputably known: namely, that the ship attacked by Israel was in international waters and it resulted in the deaths and injuries to dozens of civilians, but no Israeli soldiers were killed and a tiny handful injured. In any event, Obama's neutrality will have to give way to a definitive statement one way or the other, and soon.

UPDATE VII: The formal statement submitted to the U.N. by the U.S. Ambassador today rather clearly seeks to blame everyone -- from Hamas to those attempting to deliver the aid -- for what happened: everyone, that is, except for the party which actually did the illegal seizing of the ship and the killing (Israel):

As I stated in the Chamber in December 2008, when we were confronted by a similar situation, mechanisms exist for the transfer of humanitarian assistance to Gaza by member states and groups that want to do so. These non-provocative and non-confrontational mechanisms should be the ones used for the benefit of all those in Gaza. Direct delivery by sea is neither appropriate nor responsible, and certainly not effective, under the circumstances. . . . We will continue to engage the Israelis on a daily basis to expand the scope and type of goods allowed into Gaza to address the full range of the population's humanitarian and recovery needs. Hamas' interference with international assistance shipments and the work of nongovernmental organizations complicates efforts in Gaza. Its continued arms smuggling and commitment to terrorism undermines security and prosperity for Palestinians and Israelis alike.

Given that the Israelis refuse to allow anything other than the most minimal "necessities" to enter Gaza, I'd love to know what "non-provocative and non-confrontational mechanisms" exist to deliver humanitarian assistance? And it's extraordinary that we refuse to condemn a blockade that, as classic "collective punishment," is a clear violation of the Geneva Conventions, and even refuse to condemn today's violent seizure of ships in international water. But, of course, the central rule of American politics is that Israel cannot be criticized, even as the rest of the world condemns it. How do you think the rest of the world will perceive the U.S.'s extreme, out-of-step protection of the Israelis, while subtly (or not-so-subtly) heaping the blame on the victims of its aggression?

[EFerrari]

29. I wish you'd put this in an OP. n/t

[Catherina]

30. Will post it now in GD. Thanks n/t

[Ignis]

189. Please link to it. GD is speeding by today.

And thanks for re-posting it as an OP. :thumbsup:

[EFerrari]

217. It's in the I/P forum, Ignis.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x315087

[Ignis]

218. Thanks.

:hi:

[izquierdista]

97. Update II

Just ponder what we'd be hearing if North Korea had attacked one of our client state's ships in international waters. What, they did? We have? Sanctions? You don't say...

[The Stranger]

115. The blockade is a genocidal act.

There, I said it.

[Cherchez la Femme]

243. + ~

[lark]

179. Regarding Update II

You know exactly what we'd do if Iran was stupid enough to do something similar - we'd nuke them! There would be no commission, just action to "defend" Israel. No wonder the Arab world hates us, we deserve every bit of the loathing.

[readmoreoften]

185. +1

[howard112211]

31. Hmm. Didn't McCrystal say that this type of thing "puts our troops lives at stake"?

Just sayin. :shrug:

[Spheric]

32. Obama is willing to examine all options.

There is only one thing he is absolutely against no matter what and that is "Change."

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[UndertheOcean]

34. not surprised at all n/t

[demoleft]

35. "UN: Impartial probe of flotilla raid". jerusalem post

The UN Security Council on Tuesday called for an impartial investigation of Israel's commando raid on ships taking humanitarian aid to the Gaza Strip and condemning the "acts" that resulted in the loss of at least nine lives.

After an emergency meeting and marathon negotiations, the 15 council members agreed on a presidential statement that was weaker than that initially demanded by the Palestinians, Arabs and Turkey. (my bold)

jpost, http://www.jpost.com/International/Article.aspx?id=177096

[wake.up.america]

36. Does not look good for the USA

[lanlady]

38. coming up next

The US Senate will probably issue a statement of support for Israel and condemning the aid workers. Would not be at all surprised.

[olegramps]

99. Lieberman is typing the condemnation of those dangerous humanitarians threat to Israel's sovereignty...

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Cass]

40. This just disgusts me. I had hoped Obama's policy toward Israel would

be different but its just the same old same old.

The US will pay a price for this. The rest of the world does not wear blinders to Israeli brutality like the US does and the US will suffer the fallout from their blind support of this incident.

[muriel_volestrangler]

41. Full text: "condemns those acts which resulted in the loss of at least ten civilians"

The Security Council deeply regrets the loss of life and injuries resulting from the use of force during the Israeli military operation in international waters against the convoy sailing to Gaza. The Council, in this context, condemns those acts which resulted in the loss of at least ten civilians and many wounded, and expresses its condolences to their families.

The Security Council requests the immediate release of the ships as well as the civilians held by Israel. The Council urges Israel to permit full consular access, to allow the countries concerned to retrieve their deceased and wounded immediately, and to ensure the delivery of humanitarian assistance from the convoy to its destination.

The Security Council takes note of the statement of the UN Secretary-General on the need to have a full investigation into the matter and it calls for a prompt, impartial, credible and transparent investigation conforming to international standards.

The Security Council stresses that the situation in Gaza is not sustainable. The Council re-emphasizes the importance of the full implementation of Resolutions 1850 and 1860. In that context, it reiterates its grave concern at the humanitarian situation in Gaza and stresses the need for sustained and regular flow of goods and people to Gaza as well as unimpeded provision and distribution of humanitarian assistance throughout Gaza.

The Security Council underscores that the only viable solution to Israeli-Palestinian conflict is an agreement negotiated between the parties and re-emphasises that only a two-State solution, with an independent and viable Palestinian State living side by side in peace and security with Israel and its other neighbours, could bring peace to the region.

The Security Council expresses support for the proximity talks and voices concern that this incident took place while the proximity talks are underway and urges the parties to act with restraint, avoiding any unilateral and provocative actions, and all international partners to promote an atmosphere of cooperation between the parties and throughout the region.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/10201202.stm

(mods - I don't think there's a coyright problem on a UN statement)

The BBC reports this as:

The statement was the result of a compromise between Turkey and the United States, with Turkey reluctant to water down its trenchant criticism of Israel while the United States, Israel's closest ally, wanted to temper the language used, says the BBC's UN correspondent Barbara Plett in New York.

Turkey is furious at the commando raid, which targeted a Turkish ship and appeared to have killed mostly Turkish activists, our correspondent says.

The compromise took out direct condemnation of Israel and removed references to an international investigation, our correspondent adds.

It also weakened demands for an end to the economic blockade of Gaza that the activists were trying to break, but the incident has refocused international attention on the siege and many states have renewed calls for it to be lifted, she says.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/10201202.stm

[Lone_Star_Dem]

107. Thanks for the full statement

I knew it had to be in this thread someplace but was beginning to get a frustration headache right about the time I found your post. Thank you!

[pinto]

116. Thanks for the update.

:hi:

[Barack_America]

42. This country shares Israel's shame.

These people's vessel was boarded by pirates in international waters in the dead of night. Why shouldn't they have fought back?

[Enthusiast]

44. Some, right here on DU,

would have you believe that Israel can do no wrong. They bristle at a single criticism of Israel no matter how much it is deserved. Israel is just another U.S. sacred cow - no offense meant toward Hindus.

[Name removed]

46. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[No Elephants]

47. I'm so ashamed.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

49. how could you NOT single out Israel?

now the newsmedia here is saying 'you have to worry what was really on that ship'

evidence?

[Orrex]

59. Well, be reasonable about it:

The people on the ship got their blood all over the deck and the commandos' weapons, after all, so you can see how both parties are equally culpable.

[yellowwood]

50. Did Everyone Postingt Here Contact President and Representatives

Our government believes that we back Israel no matter what it does. They think that supporting Israel will undo the wrongs that were done in Europe sixty years ago. Obviously, subjugating people who had nothing to do with it will not make up for the suffering that was inflicted. By supporting the present Israeli regime, we are committing these crimes of oppression ourselves.

No sense in just venting in places like this. Let the government know what you think.

[On the Road]

139. That is a Good Recommendation

Have not done yet. I think public attitudes are changing.

[crim son]

149. An excellent idea. Done! n/t

[Warren Stupidity]

51. I'm just shocked.

[AngryOldDem]

52. What a surprise.

And so much for the tough talk Hillary Clinton gave Israel a couple of weeks ago.

We are like a bad parent dealing with a spoiled, out-of-control child. The kid can do no wrong.

[gleaner]

53. This is so wrong ....

It is right up there with Bush holding hands with Israel so that he could justify his own brand of force and violence. This is no better. The fact that it is Turkey calling for a thorough investigation has no bearing on what Israel did. This meme of blaming others for what the party who is responsible for atrocities like these has to stop. The people who were murdered were trying to help others who no one else could be bothered to help. They died for showing compassion. Israel was responsible. Nothing else enters into it. Reputations are never, ever as important as human life. Period the end.

[sendero]

54. Obama..

... a disappointment wrapped in Bush-like immorality.

[femrap]

98. Could one say.....

'Obushma?' Isn't that sad? I saw this the other day. The Who were right...New boss is the same as the old boss....but the nation was fooled again.

[liberation]

161. We traded a "decider" for an "orator."

It is a slight improvement I supposed, gotta look for the silver lining some where...

However, I am not naive enough to think any US president would ever think of any policy item for the middle east which did not involve steadfast support for Israel no matter what.

[Turborama]

55. Why? n/t

[MadBadger]

56. Its Fucking Bullshit...but Unsurprising

[Mari333]

58. what credibility could the USA have anyway? they are occupying 2 countries

and have never even brought their own war criminals to trial
the thuggery of our own country is a shining bad example to any other country who decides to behave like thugs.

shame on this country for their war crimes, and shame on Israel for their cruelty.

[Selatius]

60. As long as the US refuses to hold Israel accountable, nobody can really hold Israel accountable.

The US, given its veto power on the UN Security Council, can simply use its power to shield Israel from the consequences of its actions in the West Bank and Gaza, including building and expanding colonial outposts on occupied land.

[City Lights]

62. Same shit, different day.

x(

[AzDar]

63. Let's face it... he sucks.

An absolute disappointment right down the line...

[mdmc]

64. USA!USA!

[orbitalman]

66. I am so sick of U.S. arrogance. nt

[Tesha]

67. Of course. Everyone in the world knew we would. We always do. (NT)

[madrchsod]

68. this is`t going to be pretty...

i read a lot of posts on stormfront yesterday....

[mulsh]

69. Once again covering for the Isreali government's crimes

I know the US ships billions of dollars of aid to Israel I wonder how much the US gets back in return. I mean aside from a couple of very devastating spies turning our info over to the Soviets a few years ago I just can't figure our where we benefit. Stability in the region-hardly.

You'd think that with all the brilliant and resourceful people who have settled in that country plus their vibrant economy that Israel no longer needs much foreign aid.

[NorthCarolina]

89. Some taxpayer funds to Israel do obviously come back to the US

AIPAC is one of the most effective and powerful lobbying groups on Capitol Hill, and they have deep pockets for our legislators. Slickest taxpayer money laundering scheme ever!

[lumpy]

181. The AIPAC web site is disgusting, biased of course. Holding

the humanitarians responsible for the whole debacle. Sickening that these people can claim to be working for the interests of the US.

[Name removed]

70. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[McCamy Taylor]

72. Good luck trying to have a balanced discussion of this topic at DU.

[Raineyb]

73. Absolutely disgusting! Unfortunately it's also unsurprising. n/t

[Odin2005]

74. Obama just shat on his Nobel prize.

:puke:

[katandmoon]

82. It came pre-shat on anyway. He never deserved it from the start.

[katandmoon]

83. Israel's name for U.S.: Ben Dover

[matsovani]

237. So True

[Paper Roses]

77. I will never understand this. No wonder the world is upset with us. n/t

[Shining Jack]

79. Gee what a surprise. n/t

[Name removed]

80. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Catherina]

81. Throwing a party in Tel Aviv, celebrating in front of the Turkish Embassy

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=6a3_1275348204

Israelis celebrating attack on Turkish Aid Ship - in front of Turkish Embassy,Tel Aviv
Footage from 30 minutes ago.

[femrap]

100. I'm shocked by

this video....they seem so bloodthirsty. It's as if Israel must do to Palestine what the Germans did to them. It's absolutely insane.

If only Women in Black could rule Israel and Palestine.

This all seems like groundwork for WW3.

[Catherina]

102. It pains the soul n/t

[Name removed]

282. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[activa8tr]

104. This is more disgusting than radical Islamists doing the same thing

after 9/11. At least we already knew what they were.

[AngryOldDem]

108. There are no words.

What I would LIKE to say would most likely get me a pizza with the works here.

[donco6]

119. Wow. What to even say about that. n/t

[DRex]

121. Barbarism. Hideous.

[Ignis]

186. Winning hearts and minds.

:puke:

[Skelly]

215. It was a protest

Not a celebration.

Hundreds protest outside Turkish embassy against Ankara's involvement in Gaza flotilla, carry signs reading, 'Provocation is not the path to peace.'

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3897091,00.html

[EFerrari]

222. Well, when your government is committing a crime against humanity

people will get involved. To turn around and call that involvement "provocation" is rank dishonesty.

[Skelly]

227. Will it surprise you

that many will not agree?
Is the issue important enough to you to understand why they will not?

[EFerrari]

229. Of course. It goes without saying that the people who profit from this situation

financially or politically cannot agree and that those they manipulate with misinformation ("they attacked us with pipe and deck chairs") will not agree.

So? This movement will not be stopped now. Too many people in too many nations have committed to it. No one government can contain it. Not even a collusion of governments can.

ETA: This is what Richard Falk said today. He's the UN Special Repporteur for the Palestinian Territories.

RICHARD FALK: Good morning, Amy. This was a shocking incident that involved, as your other guests have said, a complete disregard of international law, in several respects. It was an act of naked aggression. It was done on the high seas. It was done in defiance of elementary humanitarian standards. It was known that this flotilla had no weapons. It was not a security issue by the remotest stretch of the imagination. If there was a right of self-defense, it belonged to the people onboard these ships. Israel, as the aggressing state and political actor, had no claim whatsoever of self-defense. It’s an absurdity. And one can only imagine if another country that the United States didn’t like had engaged in this kind of behavior, we would have been denouncing them or, worse, using force. One can only imagine what would happen if Iran had done something of this comparably outrageous character and sought to provide some kind of legal cover for it, while silencing those that actually experienced the incident.

So I feel that we’ve almost never seen such a direct confrontation with the most elementary principles of international law. And it is a disgrace that our government has decided to stand apart from all other countries in the world, including our normal European friends, and withheld a denunciation and a call for lifting the blockade, because one needs to appreciate that underneath this criminal act, which amounts to a crime against humanity, underneath this has been the almost three years of criminal blockade of the people of Gaza. The blockade is a direct violation of Article 33 of the Fourth Geneva Convention that prohibits collective punishment. And this is one of the first examples where a civilian population has been locked inside a zone that has been subjected to this kind of mental and physical threat to subsistence and survival.

[Cherchez la Femme]

245. Decisions, decisions

which to believe: my own eyes
-or-
the fair and balanced ynet...

/sarcasm

[laughingliberal]

258. Inexcusable. nt

[truth2power]

84. I am ashamed of my country. I am ashamed of my Nobel Laureate President...

There is no crime that Israel can commit....NONE....for which they can be held accountable.

Self-defense, my a$$!! All this prattling-on about this or that "existential threat"...if Israel is ever destroyed, it will be by their OWN HAND. Mark my words!

Someone should do a psychological study on why Israel seems bent on their own destruction. Very curious!

[placton]

95. shhhh! be quiet or

the mods will make you sign a loyalty oath!

[sinkingfeeling]

85. Surprise, not. How many times has the US stopped the UN from sanctioning Israel?

[activa8tr]

103. Is this a trick question? Did I miss one in my study of 60+ years of

my life and the history of the Israeli state?

[Name removed]

127. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

205. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RedCloud]

86. There are more deleted messages in this thread than Joe Vialls websites.

Must be some force at work.

[mikita]

87. kick... no words for this n/t

[freddie mertz]

90. Once again, political cowardice trumps international leadership.

Disgusting and predictable.

[Tarc]

94. When we can cut lobbyists out of the equation

Then our lawmakers will be more likely to do what is right for the world rather than do what is right for themselves.

[Wizard777]

106. Take the condemnation to the General Council. No Veto's allowed there.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

111. When I was growing up, we were told that the USSR was the one always

obstructing the majority view of the Security Council with its veto power. We were told that the U.S. had never used its veto power and always went along with the majority and that the Soviets' use of veto power was proof of their disregard for democracy.

Ever since the Reagan administration, the U.S. has used its veto power freely.

Who's showing contempt for democracy now?

[redqueen]

112. Sickening. (nt)

[Ticonderoga]

117. Thanks again,

Mr. One Termer. Disgusting isn't it?

[AlbertCat]

118. Israel is the biggest Foreign Policy mistake of the 20th century.

Iraq is the biggest for the 21st century.... but of course much of that mistake has to do with Israel.... as does all middle eastern crap. Religion is the base.

Remember.... Palestinians are Semites too!

[Dutch]

152. Yet, what a disastrous mistake it was to create the middle east's only free democracy.

I guess all those Jews should have just set up home outside the concentration camp gates. :shrug:

[liberation]

167. Two things:

a) Almost half of the victims of the Holocaust were not Jewish. So it is getting reeeeeeeeal thin as a general excuse for every arbitrary heavy handed action by Israel. I have certainly not seen Poland carrying out similar policies, even though they could technically use the same excuse/justification as Israel does regarding the Holocaust.

b) There were other contemporary democracies in the middle East at the time. Most notably Lebanon predates Israel as a democracy. In fact most of those democracies (Iran, Iraq, etc) were undermined and basically destroyed by the USA and UK, which installed puppet regimes in order to have easier access to the natural resources of the area mainly oil. BTW Israel was instrumental in destabilizing Lebanon, and destroying what was known at the time as the "Switzerland of the Middle East." Among other things, in order to neutralize a possible competitor in commercial and financial venues.

Using the memory of those who perished in one of the darkest moments in human history to excuse particular narratives is one of the most morally bankrupt things I can think of honestly.

[IndianaGreen]

261. Israel is not a free democracy! Israeli Arabs are second class citizens, and...

Palestinians are denied the right to live in freedom in their land.

[FBI_Un_Sub]

268. C8H18

is the true heroin, and our addiction to it is what drives our ME policy,

[Ozymanithrax]

122. If the U.S. condemns Israel, then boarding of ships in international waters...

by the U.S. military to search for contraband such as drugs or smuggled humans would also be condemned. The U.S. military stopping ships in international waters between the U.S. and Cuba to search for people trying to enter the U.S. illegally would be condemned.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

129. how many countries do this?

[Ozymanithrax]

134. Russia, Japan, China, South Korea, England, and any country that has laws against smuggling...

and a military force that allows them to interdict contraband. In a purely technical way, what Israel did may very well be legal. What is legal isn't the same thing is right, moral, or ethical.

But the U.S. and other nations that do have an interest in drug interdiction beyond their own borders or stopping smuggling on the high seas will look closely at any condemnation to make sure they are not crapping on their own sofa.

[readmoreoften]

154. Any state where wheelchairs are contraband, that state is a monster that deserves to be ignored.

[Ignis]

159. +1

...But cue those who'll make the argument that Israel has the sovereign right to slaughter anyone trying to bring wheelchairs to crippled children in Gaza.

:puke:

[FBI_Un_Sub]

274. During my NROTC Cadet Cruise

we stopped, boarded, and inspected ships (including Soviet ships) going to Cuba.

[Ticonderoga]

143. U.S. policy on the high seas

is to contact the country the vessel is flagged under and ask for permission to stop and board outside of U.S. jurisdiction. If no permission is granted then the U.S. will not board the vessel unless they come under fire, or the occurance is during wartime. Outside of those boundries, they will wait untill the ship has entered U.S. waters.

[laughingliberal]

262. Thanks for that clarification. nt

[rhett o rick]

244. Let me guess your point. It is ok for Isreal to do this because the US also wants to be able to do

it? Does that justify this action?

[snappyturtle]

123. I agree with most of what has been said here in the replies. I just want to know

Is the U.S. afraid of Israel?

I have a neighbor who believes Israel is deemed by God to be holy and not to be messed with out of fear of God's wrath. This may be part of the scenario, in which case, the happenings in the ME are today's modern Crusade. Of course, the Israeli lobby probably has more to do with the President's reaction and the official U.S. UN position to the violence. imho

I am in a very sad and depressing time in my personal life and didn't think I had any emotions left. But this 'event' and the suffering in light of the oil 'spill' has proved me wrong. Very sad here today which is remarkable because not long ago I held some hope for change.

[Ozymanithrax]

135. The U.S. regularly runs drug interdiciton on the high seas...

that involves boarding ships flagged from other nations, searching them for contraband, and confiscating the ship if any contraband is found. The U.S. patrols the sea between Cuba and the U.S. and will stop ships that may be smuggling people tyring to sneak into the U.S. That is legal. When the military does it, they go in armed and will shoot people if they resist.

The U.S. is not afraid of Israel but we (as national policy) do the same thing, and would not like to find ourselves condemned by our own words.

[sinkingfeeling]

141. Not the country, just their lobby on the Hill.

[Name removed]

125. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

126. Contact those involved --

and let them know how you feel about this incident and the US's response:

President Obama
http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact
Comments: 202-456-1111.
Fax: [phone]

US Embassador Susan Rice
http://archive.usun.state.gov/Issues/Contact2.html
United States Mission to the United Nations
140 East 45th Street
New York, N.Y. 10017
Opinion & Comment line: 212-415-4062
Fax: [phone]

Israeli Embassador Michael B. Oren
Israeli embassy in DC
3514 International Dr. N.W.
Washington DC 20008
Tel: [phone]
[e-mail]
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Michael-Oren/80233451916

Secretary General Ban Ki-moon
United Nations
New York, NY 10017 USA
212-963-5012 fax: [phone]
Email: [e-mail]

[L0oniX]

128. All UN members need to leave and start another UN without the USA.

Hey military people ...are ya still proud to serve this fucked up country?

[Change Happens]

131. You know we are handing over our superpower status to China as we speak...This will speed things up

What a shame, this is very very wrong.

[On the Road]

140. That Would Probably Work

about as well as the League of Nations. What really needs to be revisited is the Security Council structure and absolute veto power of the five permanent members.

[Change Happens]

133. Israel and the IDF are terrorist organizations, we are now their enablers!

Obama is over to many in the world. WOW, what a reversal...

[Ozymanithrax]

136. Hamas, the authority in Gaza, are a terrorist organization. We have company. n/t

[Rosa Luxemburg]

138. Ireland will have to go over and sort them out

[colsohlibgal]

142. Double Standard

If another nation had done the dame thing we wouldn't block what the UN wanted to do and we'd rip them. We will pay a price for another automatic defense of whatever Israel does or says, it's just a matter of how and when.

[Jester Messiah]

144. Guess we should add ourselves to that list...

You know, that "State Supporters of Terrorism" thing.

[cstanleytech]

146. I shared a similar opinion about this but that was just my intitial reaction

due to the headline used because I thought it was just another vote by the US when it comes to Israel like usual that protects it, once I read it though I think the Obama administration made the right call in that all the violence needs to be condemned not just that done by Israel.
Furthermore I suspect they also voted no because the proposal made by Turkey went to far with asking that the blockade be ended, I am not condemning nor am I supporting the blockade here though just stating my opinion on one of the reasons imo why the US voted no in this case.
What turkey needs to do is resubmit their proposal but edit it so the proposal simply calls for an unbiased investigation to find out what happened and then later on if evidence surfaces israel was in the wrong they can submit for restitution for those harmed.

[mikelgb]

147. Rice is cooked.

if only

[krabigirl]

148. Not in my name...this is disgusting..I am beyond tired of this country and its policies.

[Deadgnome]

150. Well

It is not surprising seeing this country does and has for some time engaged in criminal activities such as what Israel has done. Fuck this country, we deserve what is coming to us, at least our leaders do, it's unfortunate us common folk will suffer the brunt. I'm getting sicker and sicker every day.

[Dutch]

151. Good for the Obama administration for averting another UN anti-Israel lynch mob.

[Better Believe It]

156. How can we force Israel to dismantle their WMD's? They should not be in the hands of an

unstable extremist right-wing regime in Israel.

That's very, very dangerous. At least as dangerous as an Iran armed to the teeth with nuclear bombs .... some think far more dangerous.

[Ignis]

187. Yes, the UN is really a terrorist organization, donchaknow?

But I'm so glad you feel free to make light of African-American history by your casual and hyperbolic reference to lynching.

:puke:

With that kind of tone-deaf bullshit, there's a place in the Israeli government waiting for you!

[readmoreoften]

157. Blockading medical supplies, food, and basic building supplies is not an act of war

it's an act of genocide. Do what you want to Hamas. Leave the people alone.

[proteus_lives]

168. Hamas is fighting a guerrilla war.

It's their tactic to put civilians in the line of fire.

You should be telling Hamas to leave the people alone.

[totodeinhere]

169. This points out the Turks' blatant hypocrisy. They feign outrage over this incident involving Israel

yet to this day they deny the genocide that they committed against the Armenians. Talk about a double standard. Say what you want about the way Israel handled this incident. Regrettably there were some deaths but it was nothing like the massive genocide of more than one million innocent people suffered by the Armenians at the hands of these same Turks who are all hot and bothered over this incident.

[laughingliberal]

264. Well, I guess that proves we're consistent. We won't condemn that, either. nt

[saigon68]

170. `

[TheMadMonk]

172. There is a truly beautiful, if dangerous solution to the Israeli/Palestinian problem.

If Obama and the democrats have the guts to ram it through.

Use the power George arrogated himself to declare Israel a rogue/terrorist state.

AIPAC immediately ceases to be a problem. As an organisation funding terrorism it's funds and accounts are frozen as are those of all the other pro-Israeli lobyists. And a very close look gets taken at the accounts of everyone associated with those lobyists.

Keep ramming and dismantle the entire Right Wing and the corporations owning it. Redefine the current center as the far right AND NAIL IT THERE.

The beautiful part is that the only way to stop the train if Obama had the balls (and enough backing/protection) to do it, is to kick out the entire house of cards supporting the occupations in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Nasty part, it does reinforce a precedent we'd rather see nullified once and for all.

[truedelphi]

198. Obama campaigned on how there needed to be radical

actions that would force Israel to be more accommodating to the Palestinians and to their civil rights

but he backed away from that within three weeks of the election.

[27inCali]

175. nothing but good vibes for the people of Israel and Gaza

but this is NOT GOOD FOR AMERICA to have to rubber stamp every crazy fucking thing the Israeli government/military does. It would be just as bad if we were so myopically obsessed with supporting the other side.

it's NOT GOOD FOR AMERICA to be ANY countries rubber stamp, ANY country.

I don't think blind support for Israel promotes peace at all. It doesn't make us look like an honest broker at all when it comes to peace negotiations, it delegitimizes any efforts we make to move that process along.

It also stokes major anti-Americanism around the Muslim world and feeds terrorism directed at American citizens and our allies.

It feel our leaders would be willing to threaten America's own safety and future merely to protect the right-wing militants running Israel right now and I just don't get any other reason why we would do that other than a creepy Evangelical obsession with trying to fullfill the prophecies of endtimes. WTF? I thought we voted for a sane president not another Evangelical nutjob.

[Wizard777]

178. Gibbs just said the US is "Condemning" Israel's actions.

So our position may be shifting.

[Old Vet]

199. We just went Thur this shit a few months ago............

Remember they built those damn homes on occupied territory, And Hilliary said this was blah,blah,blah. Same old stuff, Lets move on. Hell lieberman is condemning the brutal treatment of israel soldiers....DUH

[totodeinhere]

207. He did not say that. Here is what he really said.

A cautious White House said Tuesday that it supports a U.N. Security Council resolution calling for an investigation into Israel's deadly raid on ships taking humanitarian aid to the Gaza Strip, but stopped short of condemning the actions of Israeli forces.

White House spokesman Robert Gibbs said the predawn raid on international waters, which left at least nine people dead, does nothing to change the "trusted relationship" between the U.S. and Israel.

"We are greatly supportive of their security," Gibbs told reporters Tuesday. "That's not going to change."

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/top/all/7031656.html

The emphasis is mine.

[Catherina]

208. Lol. Hillary, US SOS, is on the phone doing damage control for Israel

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4407342

[Catherina]

191. Update about the investigation

The IDF has more *proof* now. In addition to the grainy video where they tell us what to see, they have a pitch black video, recorded God knows when, telling us what to hear.



Video Release: "They are firing on us with live fire!"

Video shows soldiers on their way to intercepting the Mavi Marmara ship being shot at with live fire.


...

"There were terrorists who wanted to kill us. I cannot explain it any other way. We used every means possible in order that those who shouldn’t get hurt – would not get hurt."

Captain R. was stabbed in the stomach and was wounded in his arm. "After I descended from the helicopter, I was in front of several terrorists and I cocked my weapon when I saw one of them come towards me with a knife. I fired one shot, and at that point, another twenty people started coming at me from every direction. They jumped at me and hurled me to the lower deck. At the same time, I felt intense pain in my stomach. I saw a knife stabbed into my stomach and I pulled it out. I somehow managed to get to the lower level, where there was another mob of people. I, along with other team members, jumped into the water. The third commando that was with us was hit in the head and lost consciousness," he said.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFGuwUGaI9o&feature=player_embedded
...

“We came to speak, they came to fight.”

Another naval soldier, who participated in the interception of the Mavi Marmara ship and sustained a broken arm while under attack by the ship’s passengers, described how the soldiers were shot at from the entrance to the ship’s corridor.

“I saw two from my group lying flat on the ground. From the opening of the corridor they were shooting at them the entire time with live fire, bullets. We identified a gun barrel, and one of us shot at the guy holding it. Afterwards we entered and he wasn’t there. About 30 men, they simply came for war. We came to straighten things out, to speak to those who went downstairs, but each of us who descended was simply attacked.”

...

http://dover.idf.il/IDF/English/News/today/10/06/0105.htm


The poor innocent lambs.

[totodeinhere]

204. Here is a clearer video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYjkLUcbJWo

It is very obvious from this video that the IDF commandos were attacked after they landed on the ship. Now you can say that the passengers on the ship had a right to attack the IDF, and you can say that Israel was wrong to attempt to stop the ships in international waters, but there can be no dispute that for better or worse an attack against the IDF commandos did take place once they tried to board the ship.

I really do think that there is a possibility that this was a setup and that the occupants of that ship knew they would be boarded by the Israelis and had planned this.

If you have an anti Israeli agenda you are going to put one particular spin on this, and if you have an opposite agenda you will have another spin. But after something like this I think we need to strive to get all of the facts first rather than jumping to any conclusions one way or the other. I support the Obama Administration's decision to approach this affair with caution.

[Name removed]

213. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[laughingliberal]

263. Sure, that's credible. More than 24 hours later and not visible. nt

[Greyhound]

201. K&R for more "change"...

[junior college]

210. Israel has lost its military strength

Israel has made a lot of military blunders lately and it is becoming apparent that, militarily, they have become impotent. I hope it never happens, but if another country were to attack Israel, now is the time. Israel will run a dumb rat across the scorched desert after the first shot is fired. I hope Israel can get their act together because I like and support Israel and I am worried about their future.

[lovuian]

216. One wonders does Israel run this country?

Obama seems to be toting the line

[slay]

232. Yes

yes they do. i don't even wonder.

[IndianaGreen]

240. Israel and BP run America!

I am sure there are other corporations as well.

[totodeinhere]

219. If this demonstration is any indication, there seems to be a lot of support for this incident

in Israel itself.

http://bit.ly/dyl8P7

[Raksha]

236. Did you happen to read any of the comments after that YouTube link?

There seems to be a real anti-Semitic backlash developing, which is not unexpected but is absolutely terrifying, especially the way it's excalating. I just sent the link with a sample of the comments to the rabbi of a local Reform synagogue here in SoCal. I hope it shocks him into rethinking his hawkish stance with regard to the occupied territories.

[slay]

231. The United States of Israel

we might as well be... fucking stupid shit related to israel yet again.. seems like this will never end..

[IndianaGreen]

239. We are Israel's bitch!

Haven't we have enough of this BOHICA?

[Pavulon]

250. Got a link from commondreams for that too?

Try the LOC and FIOA documents released by the NSA and writings by General Odom. Lots of info there. Israel and the Palestinians are a side show in us policy. India and Pakistan matter

[IndianaGreen]

253. AIPAC manure!

[Pavulon]

256. Yep, Them elder zionist were running Gen. Odom, NSA officer

in command of the Liberty operation and later the NSA. But hey commondreams say the filthy zionist is running the USA, so be it.

[docxray]

255. You sir seem to know

what you are talking about. In your position at DU could you arrange
for the following story

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/10198003.stm

to be on the American front page? Where it belongs?

Rachel Corrie was after all an American citizen, and a beloved daughter of
Olympia, Washington and Evergreen State College. It is so fitting that a
mercy ship from Ireland sails in her name.
A related article from the Huffington Post asks, will Obama allow
the Israelis to attack this vessel in international waters also? Or,
will he provide an escort from the United States Navy - as undoubtedly
the vast majority of USN naval officers and men would desire?

Irish Gaza aid ship Rachel Corrie 'must finish voyage'
The Irish government has called on Israel to allow an Irish-registered aid ship to continue its voyage to Gaza.
The Rachel Corrie, which left Dundalk about three weeks ago, is still pressing ahead to breach the Israeli blockade.
Nobel Peace Prize winner Mairead Corrigan Maguire is one of five Irish people on board.
At least five Irish citizens from other ships who were detained on Sunday are expected to be deported within days.
Taoiseach Brian Cowen earlier warned of "serious consequences" if any of the Irish citizens detained in Israel were harmed, and called for their immediate and unconditional release..............

[Pavulon]

257. Bet they dont board with paintball guns first

I would expect a different response.

[docxray]

259. They will not board at all

with anything, if this mercy ship is escorted by the loyal United States Navy. Let them try.

[Pavulon]

265. The US navy is not going to break a blockade on hamas

you do realize how unimportant both Israel and Palestinians are to American interests. This has been a sideshow since 1975.

[docxray]

270. Of course Israel and Palestine

are peripheral to American interests. Among the loyal US armed forces other duties are
surveillance and interdiction of Israel, i.e., preventing a pre-emptive Israeli strike on
Iran and causing WW III. Admiral Mullen has been to Israel numerous
times to tell them that's precisely what's happening. And what's going to happen to them.

The United States Navy has historically been in involved in
mercy missions. And the blockade (of Gaza) does not legally exist, except in the distorted
minds of the Israeli far right and their fellow travelers in other countries, who make up their
own rules. The officers and
men of the US Navy would be proud to undertake such a mission. Somebody must
redeem the honor of the former United States.

[Pavulon]

273. NO really, neither mean shit in the big picture.

Israel is a client state that purchases US weapons and palestine is a line item to be negotiated with powerful arab states. None of those states actually care, they just use them to further their interests, and have done so since 46. You will note the giant wall Egypt put in place to keep them the fuck out.

The us navy serves the president and they will receive no order to intervene in any way.

This conflict is a church for people, they are vested and it is part of their lives. View the conflict from the eyes of people who set policy and it is very different.

Hey bet you didn't know 6 million people died in congo recently, world could give a fuck.

However this skirmish, which has been irrelevant since 75, and totally irrelevant since the ussr collapsed is a press magnet. That is no accident.

[docxray]

277. What was today's certainty

is tomorrow's chimera.

The us navy serves the president ---------

-------and they will receive no order to intervene in any way.

It must be pleasant to so certain of such matters.

Time will tell. At the minimum the President and the naval high
command are on moral notice now. The Rachel Corrie will
not arrive for several days. And the whole world will be
watching. Over and out.

[Pavulon]

278. Yep. More stunt blockade runners.

bet they get boarded and if they act violent get shot. over and out. And if they do, the response will be the same.

Children playing adult games are putting themselves and others at risk.

[U4ikLefty]

271. If Israel means nothing to the US, then cutting off aid should be easy.

right?

[Pavulon]

275. When it serves US interests, they will be as irrelevant as the DPRC

or Rwanda. That is how the world works. That is why the turkish military is not going to get involved. They want Israeli weapon systems, and could give two shits about dead guys swinging pipes.

[U4ikLefty]

279. Rwanda doesn't have 200 nukes.

Exactly what "US interests" are being served by Israel?

[Pavulon]

280. They buy US weapon systems and kill people we dont like

like hamas, hizbolla, etc. Who cares about nukes. They also didn;t kill 6 fucking MILLION people in the congo. Ever hear of that, no? Where are the aid ships??

No ships, because the cause has no following of zealots on either side.

They are surrounded by people who want them all to die. Nukes may be helpful in deterring a repeat of the 3 ass kickings handed out in the last real wars in the region.

[U4ikLefty]

281. I can see you are getting angry...have a nice night.

;)

[Tailormyst]

276. This thread is a good measure of character

My ignore list has grown, but then so has my list of people that genuinely care about others.