Autopsy shows Gaza activists were hit 30 times: report

[DJ13]

Source: Reuters


1 hr 17 mins ago

LONDON (Reuters) – Nine Turkish activists killed in an Israeli raid on a Gaza-bound aid ship were shot a total of 30 times and five died of gunshot wounds to the head, Britain's Guardian newspaper reported on Friday.

Autopsy results showed the men were hit mostly with 9mm bullets, many fired at close range, the Guardian said, quoting Yalcin Buyuk, vice-chairman of the Turkish council of forensic medicine which carried out the autopsies on Friday.

Israeli commandos stormed a flotilla of aid ships planning to break the Israeli sea blockade of Gaza on Monday. The deaths, which all took place on one ship, the Mavi Marmara, drew widespread condemnation.

Israel said the marines who rappelled onto the Mavi Marmara fired in self-defense after activists attacked them with clubs and knives as well as two pistols snatched from the commandos.

The autopsy results showed that a 60-year-old man, Ibrahim Bilgen, was shot four times in the temple, chest, hip and back, the Guardian said.

A 19-year-old, named as Fulkan Dogan, who also has U.S. citizenship, was shot five times from less than 45 cm (18 inches) away, in the face, the back of the head, twice in the leg and once in the back, it said.

Two other men were shot four times. Five of those killed were shot either in the back of the head or in the back, the Guardian quoted Buyuk as saying.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100604/wl_nm/us_israel_flotilla_autopsies

[Poll_Blind]

1. And per THIS article at DU, 6 of the 9 hostages were killed by a SINGLE Israeli:

Israeli commando who shot six passengers in aid convoy in line for medal

No, they're not joking about him possibly getting a medal. How incredibly wrong and sick is that, BTW?

PB

[DJ13]

2. Thats disgusting

:-(

[classysassy]

20. With those bloody medals

he should also get a free trip to the Hague.

[glitch]

27. Several activists still not accounted for, the body count will probably go up.

This guy will run for office and probably win. And in 40 years when he's feeling old and tired he'll send another team out to massacre unarmed civilians, all to relive his glorious youth. Count on it.

There is no lather, there is no rinse, there is only filthy repeat.

[peacebird]

3. I cannot begin to express how DISGUSTED i am with the actions of the IDF.

I swear - if Israel WANTED to convince people that they no longer deserved a country they really could not be doing a better job.

[murray hill farm]

4. Well...let us take a look at this....

a ship taking food to a people who were starving to death was attacked by soldiers with automatic weapons who borded the ship and started shooting and killing people on the ship. Those who survived the initial attack, took up chairs and metal poles to fight back against those who were killing them with much more deadly weapons. Now...someone will try to make us interpret this as the victims are the terrorists? This needs no discussion. Humanitarian people taking food to starving fellow humans were attacked and killed for their attempty to save their starving fellow human beings. Those who will tell me I am wrong about this can kiss my ass.

[Poll_Blind]

5. Don't forget it occurred in international waters. Also, and less spoken about, is the fact...

...that this flotilla had been a subject of huge media coverage in Turkey. The "terrorist" organization Israel is referring to is the IHH and not only are they a big aid organization in Turkey they have close ties with the current Turkish government.

So, when Israel accuses IHH of being terrorist, the Turks hear Israel calling them terrorists.

Here is a great article from the Christian Science Monitor (from today) which gives a quick rundown of what the IHH is and just how closely it is affiliated with the Turkish government.

PB

[EFerrari]

15. And this vessel was shadowed for over four hours before the initial firing.

So, those people on board had four hours to reflect on their mortality. :grr:

[readmoreoften]

68. +1

But they had sticks! It was all a Mooslin plot aginst dimocrisy!

[SILVER__FOX52]

6. Shot in the back of the head......

sorta like an execution. Israeli Bastards.

[murray hill farm]

8. I wonder...

If americans were all of the passengers on the next ship, if this would change everything.

[regnaD kciN]

9. Yep, because that worked so well for the U.S.S. Liberty...

:sarcasm:

[The abyss]

7. Anything new on the Furkan Dogan execution?

Furkan Dogan, U.S. citizen , shot multiple times in the head

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/Media/american-killed-gaza-aid-flotilla/story?id=10814848

US tax dollars at work!

[Tripmann]

11. Yep

Shot at an 18 inch range multiple times in the head and face.

In self defence of course :sarcasm:

Oh, and 5 of those killed in 'self defense' were shot in the back and backs of the head. Obviously while executing that lethal terrorist move of trying to push you overboard with their arse. :eyes:

[kas125]

14. The only thing new as far as I can tell, is that once it became

known that one of the victims was a US citizen and that the helicopters had fired on the ship before boarding, the television news stopped talking about it altogether and now it's all oil, all the time.

[The abyss]

65. Fascinating lack of US coverage on the execution of a US citizen by a foreign nation.

Found this
http://www.imemc.org/article/58862

This
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Middle-East/2010/0603/Israeli-raid-on-Gaza-Freedom-Flotilla-killed-US-citizen-Furkan-Dogan

And this
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/josh-ruebner/justice-for-all-a-tale-of_b_601067.html

So proud to see US tax dollars at work!:sarcasm:

[SOS]

74. Imagine

if an Iranian Revolutionary Guard commando team attacked a ship in international waters and
shot a US citizen five times in the head?

McCain and Lieberman would be screaming for war.

The summary execution of Mr. Dogan has not even been mentioned in the New York Times.

[The abyss]

77. I know

You know

We know

We need to push this in the face of those that are still sleeping.

Wake ‘em up!

[New Dawn]

10. Sanctions now!

[defendandprotect]

12. k

[Ignis]

13. "a 60-year-old man, Ibrahim Bilgen, was shot four times"

What a terrifying opponent! No wonder these poor commandos had to shoot him.

And then shoot him again.

And again.

And one last time, to make sure he was really dead.

What else could the IDF commandos possibly have done? :shrug:

[county worker]

16. Funny, I don't see those DUers who told me how legal this all was.

I don't have the words to describe my disgust for you who think this was legal.

[UndertheOcean]

18. They are waiting for a new set of talking points from propaganda headquarters

[UndertheOcean]

19. ....

[Blue_Tires]

55. +1000

[tango-tee]

72. One of them is being a busy little bee farther downthread right now.

Practically frothing at the mouth in defense of the force used.

[Paladin]

73. One Of Our Resident Gun Militants. No Surprise..... (n/t)

[EFerrari]

17. US Teen Executed by Israelis on Gaza Aid Ship

US Teen Executed by Israelis on Gaza Aid Ship



Gaza activists on flotilla executed with gunshot wounds to the head at close range

By Brenda Norrell

A US teen with a video camera, Furkan Dogan, 19, was executed by Israeli commandos during Israel's bloody massacre of human rights activists on the Freedom Flotilla. Furkan was shot five times, including in the face at close range, from 18 inches away. The nine victims on the Freedom Flotilla were shot 30 times. Five died from gunshot wounds to the head, according to the autopsy report.

The Guardian and the Wall Street Journal reported the horrifying details of Israel's bloody massacre and from the funeral of Furkan, a 19-year-old humanitarian who liked to play chest.

Ahmet Dogan, 49, an assistant professor of accounting at Kayseri University, said no one has been able to shed light on his son's final moments. He thinks Furkan may have drawn the Israelis soldiers' attention with the video camera he took with him to document the voyage, the Wall Street Journal reported.

"He thought his American passport would protect him-he thought the Israelis wouldn't harm an American," said Mr. Dogan.

http://narcosphere.narconews.com/notebook/brenda-norrell/2010/06/us-teen-executed-israelis-gaza-aid-ship

:puke:

[Tripmann]

21. Jesus Christ

Its easy to forget just how young a 19 year old is. Poor kid.

[Old Vet]

22. Five Killed from behind.......................

I thought one brave man fought off all the attackers?? They were shot dead running away or at 18in EXECUTED. Period, end of discussion. Theres no explanation or excuses on this one. Thats fucked up!

[burnsei sensei]

23. By no means is it a fair fight

that's indicated here.
I remember Lebanon about two years ago. It seems to me that the IDF and Israeli army turn quite pale when confronted with a fair fight and the possibility of meaningful sacrifice of life and limb.

[Pavulon]

26. Yep they have a history of being weak. Thats how they got the occupied territory

and that desert they gave back to egypt.

[burnsei sensei]

64. If they fought such

that they did make such sacrifices for territory.
If they fought such that they did not confront, threaten and hurt the unarmed, they might have garnered the respect of their adversaries.
As it is, force elicits only fear.
And we Americans, I regret, have been too much the same in our own confrontations. Only in Afghanistan, over the last year, have we been forced to fight against people almost as armed with advantage as we are.

[mainer]

24. It also says six activists are missing -- presumed tossed overboard.

So now the death toll is up to 15.

[mainer]

25. Activists hit 30 times. OUt of how many HUNDREDS of bullets fired?

Those are just the bullets in the nine dead. What about the missing six who were thrown overboard? What about the wounded? There may have been hundreds of shots fired.

[kpete]

28. Autopsy shows Gaza activists were hit 30 times: report

Source: Reuters

Autopsy shows Gaza activists were hit 30 times: report
LONDON
Fri Jun 4, 2010 7:00pm EDT


LONDON (Reuters) - Nine Turkish activists killed in an Israeli raid on a Gaza-bound aid ship were shot a total of 30 times and five died of gunshot wounds to the head, Britain's Guardian newspaper reported on Friday.

Autopsy results showed the men were hit mostly with 9mm bullets, many fired at close range, the Guardian said, quoting Yalcin Buyuk, vice-chairman of the Turkish council of forensic medicine which carried out the autopsies on Friday.

.......................

The autopsy results showed that a 60-year-old man, Ibrahim Bilgen, was shot four times in the temple, chest, hip and back, the Guardian said.

A 19-year-old, named as Fulkan Dogan, who also has U.S. citizenship, was shot five times from less than 45 cm (18 inches) away, in the face, the back of the head, twice in the leg and once in the back, it said.

Read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6536MF20100604

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Enrique]

30. they had no choice

the activists were armed with scissors! And marbles! :sarcasm:

[Pavulon]

32. And pipes. Their own closed circuit cameras showed them getting ready

with pipes and gas masks. Sounds peaceful to me. BTW if someone swings a pipe at you the law allows you to kill them.

[n2doc]

33. What law? They were in international waters

The law of Pirates?

[Pavulon]

37. The same law that lets us splatter guys in yemen and blockade cuba

the law has been around for hundreds of years and was used to blockade the confederacy in the civil war.

[n2doc]

44. Doesn't make it lawful. Just means they won't be prosecuted.

And I could say the same about our present efforts.

I would take exception with the civil war example- in that case the blockade was in US waters to prevent unlawful activity. Secession is not a constitutionally allowed activity. And the south was still part of the USA, in spite of their efforts, as no treaty was ever signed to give them their independence. Gaza was never given to Israel. It was appropriated, but no treaty has ever been signed giving it to them.

[Pavulon]

49. YOu dont blockade your coast in a war, you blockade the other guy.

thats how blockades work. Now, people are free to join the war on hamas' side.

[bitchkitty]

56. What, the biggest kid on the block law?

What the hell are you talking about?

[Pavulon]

57. Blockades are a very old thing. This is not the first one

it just gets attention because "zionists" are involved.

[bitchkitty]

58. That's bullshit. Zionists?

Who the fuck cares? Murdering IDF soldiers illegally boarding a ship and killing civilians, that's what gets people's attention.

[Pavulon]

59. No they boarded legally, shot people who attacked them (seen the video?)

and left the rest of the boats alone. If it were a greek raid on a turkish ship no one would give a shit. Except for the greeks and Turks of course.

[Enrique]

35. they should have backed off

when they started getting beaten with the pipes, the commandos should have retreated from the boat and tried a non-lethal approach.

[Pavulon]

38. Oh it was a political and tactical disaster

they should have left them be then come back with proper gear. CS gas, rubber bullets, and other riot gear.

[glitch]

36. BTW if someone boards your ship masked and armed and shooting your friends... oh forget it

Beyond reason.

Shots to the back of the head are not defensive by any standard.

[Pavulon]

39. Sure if the USCG announces they are boarding and zip on to my vessel

i will be sure to start swinging a pipe at them.

[glitch]

43. Wearing masks, shooting your friends, off the coast of Mexico? Any claim of authority works for you?

Just keep your head permanently bowed down, you'll be fine.

[Pavulon]

50. See If I receive an order from the Mexican coast Guard or USCG

I am going to follow it, so I dont have a problem. They choose to fight and here we are.

[ArcticFox]

41. Also not defensive . . .

The second, third and fourth shot to the head, maybe?

I mean, does a person still have a head after being shot a few times in the head?

I've never shot anyone in the head (or anywhere else), so if anyone knows what happens to a person's head after being shot a few times, please fill me in.

[glitch]

46. Small cailbre, rattles around in the head, doesn't blast off chunks. Just as dead, less messy.

Every bit a massacre.

[Pavulon]

51. 9 MM ball does not expand. It would penetrate the head

without they typical movie fanfare. It makes a hole 1/3 of an inch on the way in and maybe a bit larger on the way out.

Military forces use 9mm ball.

[Pavulon]

31. 9mm is fired from pistols (or subguns).

since there were no subguns in use consider the following. pistols are backup weapons and are NEVER used as a primary weapon. In military terms if you are shooting a pistol you are in deep shit.

[mainer]

34. In. The. Back. Of. The. Head.

Does that sound like self-defense? it sounds like these victims were either on the ground, kneeling, or fleeing.

"A 19-year-old, named as Fulkan Dogan, who also has U.S. citizenship, was shot five times from less than 45 cm (18 inches) away, in the face, the back of the head, twice in the leg and once in the back, it said.

Two other men were shot four times. Five of those killed were shot either in the back of the head or in the back, the Guardian quoted Buyuk as saying."

[Pavulon]

40. That jives with them saying they tried legs first.

if he was still on the attack who cares. As long as he was not on his knees in custody its fair. I wonder where on the vessel he was shot. In his bunk? Drinking coffee in the mess? Or on the fantail...

[w4rma]

42. I read that the soldiers sniped some guy in the head *before* boarding. (nt)

[Pavulon]

47. Would need to see a source. That pipe beating scene justifies

any use of force. Any us leo agency or military unit would fire in that scenario. I am surprised the door gunner did not open fire.

[frustrated_lefty]

70. How much does AIPAC pay you?

[EFerrari]

66. You read right. More than one witness account but here's one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cQ69oKFtVg&feature=player_embedded

[ArcticFox]

45. submachine guns might actually provide a better story

With a handgun, everybody knows that that american citizen was DELIBERATELY shot four times in the head. What I just read was the shots were from 18 inches or less.

It was an execution.

[Pavulon]

48. Execution like murder is a legal term. Unless he was in custody and in their control

ie ziptied or on his knees its not an execution. They were using pistols as the video shows.

[crim son]

52. You know how it is;

live by sending aid, armed with pipes and gas masks, die by the sword. :sarcasm: I don't know the laws here and I don't have a source confirming anything other than that there are six dead with thirty shots identified. Legal or not, something is very wrong with this picture and how anybody can defend the Iraeli position mystifies and concerns me. Hell, I have Jewish relatives who don't believe the action was justified.

[indio55555]

53. But ,but, but

They had sling shots, sticks, and kitchen knives. We had to shoot them at point blank range and in the back.

[Pavulon]

54. Go get someone to hit you in the head with a half inch steel pipe

3 feet long. It will change you life. THose guys prepared for a fight (on tape), attacked guys on a zip line who were not hitting them (on tape), and were shot dead (on tape). Pretty much normal.

If you swing a pipe at a person in the US it justifies the use of lethal force.

[DJ13]

60. Lets see an armed para-military force repel onto the roof of your house

in the middle of the night, and see if you wouldnt grab the first thing available to you to defend yourself.

[Pavulon]

61. Oh, when the coast guard boarded my boat I did not feel the need

to attack them with a pipe. Consequently they did not feel the need to shoot me with a shotgun. Pretty simple stuff here.

[DJ13]

62. Did they repel down from a helicopter?

[Pavulon]

63. Not possible on a 40' vessel. They did have a coax mounted weapon

on their vessel and they were armed. They did search my boat for 30 minutes and look for some bullshit infraction to charge me with. Still I did not hit them with a pipe, if they had chosen to zip line on to my boat that would not be a factor in my decision not to attack an armed man with a pipe.

They do board with helicopters BTW.

[druidity33]

67. were you in

International waters? Or in the waters off the coast of the Territorial US? See, the US coast guard has a right to guard US TERRITORY. Israel had NO RIGHT to do what they did WHERE THEY DID. They should've waited until the ship was less than 20 miles away from Israel's territory. You might've had an argument then, but what you're spewing in this thread is straight up BULLSHIT. They were over 90 nautical miles from Israels waters when this happened... turned toward the ocean when this happened. Any other group/gov't would be charged with Piracy and Kidnapping.

:shrug:

[Pavulon]

69. Off bahamas. more than 12 miles from us. But i did not come out swinging a pipe

so they did not shoot me with a shotgun.

[druidity33]

71. yeah

the US and the Bahamas have really strained relations. :eyes: I'm sure there would've been helicopters dropping commando units on your boat too. Especially if you were bringing wheelchairs and cement illegally into the country. If you were within 20 miles of Territorial borders, they had every right to do what they wanted to you. But the Mavi Marvara was nearly 90 nmiles from Gaza! They were facing the other direction! Israel forced the confrontation because they wanted the cover of night. Plain and simple. Not only were they wrong morally, but what they did is Illegal on so many levels.

The more you continue to insist Israel did nothing wrong here and that the "metal-pipe" swinging terraists were at fault, the more everyone here will ignore you as just another apologist. I already have.

[Lagomorph]

75. And here in the US you...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_SmQN_LOQA

[Lagomorph]

76. This is what you get for running a stop sign in the US...

..let alone a naval blockade...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyIXgH4qTT4&feature=related

[Xavyman]

78. That's overkill

How are you going to shot someone 4 times in the head in self-defense? Something does not smell good here.

[Lagomorph]

79. They train to shoot...

until the target goes down. That's why they use pistols with 15-20 round magazines.