Costs soar for individual health insurance

[Scuba]

Source: Milwaukee Journal Sentinel Online

Premiums for Berniece Masanz's health insurance went up nearly 30% this year. Last year, the increase was 24%.

Her experience isn't atypical. People who buy their own insurance faced premium increases that averaged 20% for their most recent renewals, according to a national survey by the Kaiser Family Foundation, a health policy research organization.

Read more: http://www.jsonline.com/business/96854979.html

---

The "zero value added" health insurance industry is mad we almost regulated them.

[Lasher]

1. Employer provided health care costs are going up too.

Just as they have for many years. We're all headed for expensive, shitty insurance we can't afford to use. And some of us are there already.

[wordpix]

15. +1, seems with employer I'm paying 50% & if you select a doc out of network

because he/she has an outstanding reputation with friends/family/other docs you know, you're paying 100% or maybe the insurance co. will pay a small part.

The system sucks. For 20+ years of my working life, I paid in thousands each year and received nothing but a checkup and regular "maintenance" care (vision care, for example), which cost the insurance co. maybe $100-$200/yr. Now I'm older and have a minor health issue, and it's costing me more thousands while the insurance co. balks at paying out more than they did before.

This is how they profit in billions each year---on our backs at at the expense of our health.

[Lost4words]

16. +1 nt

[superconnected]

48. And a good portion of Americans want to keep it just the same and not regulated.

[AllyCat]

55. Got my annual letter from employer

Our healthy family of four pays $2400 out of my paycheck each year. Not bad. Employer pays $13,600! No wonder they can't compete. Employer-provided health care is a joke.

[Lasher]

73. I'll bet that $2400 is just for premiums, not copays and deductible.

Am I right?

My annual premiums (not including copays and deductible) for myself and spouse are $1734, up from $727 last year. Copays and deductible went up too.

You and I are lucky to have this insurance. But employer-provided insurance used to be much better, on average, and it's going to get worse as time goes by.

[AllyCat]

104. You are right. Copays and dedcutibles come to about $150/mo extra

on average. With little kids, the cold season hit us bad and the little guy ended up with ear tubes in and adenoids out. Just finished paying the extra bills for that surgery that were over $500. And that is a BARGAIN compared to most people. My union negotiates this "pretty-good plan" and it is still not as good as what I had loading UPS trucks in college as a Teamster. Heck, my supervisor insurance with UPS was better. And I frickin' work in health care!

[Lasher]

116. So for you that's $2400 + $1800 = $4200 per year.

I worked for a large company for a little over 3 decades. Up until the 80s my employee medical insurance cost me nothing whatever. No premiums, no copays, no deductibles. All I had to do was show my Blue Cross card and that was it. I miss the simplicity as much as anything else.

Median family income has degraded over the past 10 years. Health care costs are not included in historical income statistics. When we reflect on the plight of the middle class we should keep in mind that your real income is probably $4200 lower than it would have been in 1980.

[flyarm]

121. husband and I pay almost that much per month for 2 of us!! eom

[AllyCat]

129. I can believe it flyarm. It's a crock. I know that what we pay is a pittance

compared to most folks. What was amazing to me was how much my employer pays. $16K a year for a family of 4. Healthy folks for the most part. This whole thing is absurd.

I'm so sorry you have those kind of bills. I hope something changes for all of us soon, but especially people in your position or those with nothing.

[burnsei sensei]

57. No employer deserves this.

When will their needs be considered?
When will they be treated as well as AHIP and its members?

[stubtoe]

68. Yep.

[Dr.Phool]

2. Thank Gawd it passed.

Fuck that single-payer pony shit!

[Warren Stupidity]

6. Little effect until 2014.

So it is a bit premature to blame the lame health care reform for the continuation of the health insurance crisis.

[pattmarty]

9. Yeah, I just can't wait until 2014 for the "reform".

:sarcasm:

[zipplewrath]

10. This was suppose to be the target

The "blame" is that we needed health care reform, because the costs of health care, even for the insured, is expensive and the costs are escalating faster than the rate of inflation. It has been for a couple of decades. Instead, we got the Health Insurance Industry Stimulus Package, that did little if anything to address the underlying problem of escalating health care costs. It was an attempt to reduce the rate of increase in cost of health insurance to the federal government. They were slightly successful in doing that. Unfortunately, the rate of increase is still going up, it is still going to become too expensive for many real soon, and with the mandates, there will be a steadily increasing population of people being coerced into purchasing health insurance who won't be able to afford to use it. And as those insurance premiums increase, they'll increase at 3 times that rate for those with pre-existing conditions. So soon many of those will be exempt from the mandate because the premium costs will be too high to be subsidized by the government, so they'll just "legally" go with out it.

Within 10 years we'll be discussing HCR in the same manner we discuss NAFTA, DOMA, and DADT. And by then it will probably be the GOP that brings us nationalized health care. I can't wait to see what the GOP version of that looks like. I wonder what mandates it will contain?

[burnsei sensei]

59. Ironic indeed.

Quote:

The "blame" is that we needed health care reform, because the costs of health care, even for the insured, are expensive and the costs are escalating faster than the rate of inflation.

end quote.

The costs and measures for controlling them were never considered.
Problem unsolved.

[Flatulo]

13. I think the increases are to slip 'under the wire' before the new provisions take effect. nt

[superconnected]

49. That's what I gathered. I'm amazed at the people against the health care bill - as if the way it is

right now is acceptable...

[zipplewrath]

65. Cost wise, it isn't changing

In terms of health CARE costs, it isn't particularly changing after the Health Insurance Industry Stimulus Package goes into full force in 2014. The costs will still be rising at roughly the rate they are now, and insurance rates will climb to reflect them. The regulators won't be able to stop the rate increases because they will be based upon the health care costs increases which will make them "reasonable".

[superconnected]

72. Price caps need to come. The nice thing about the rising health care cost

is even though it wasn't affordable some people still could afford it, now a lot less can so there can be demand for price regulation.

[liberation]

79. Yeah, that makes perfect sense:

Create a legislation which puts people under such duress and stress which forces them to force congress to do what they should have done to begin with.

Of course, doing the right thing the first time around and thus saving a lot of grief to a lot of family, and who knows... saving a lot of people's lives and peace of mind made no sense at all, right?

You do realize you guys are basically making a case for black mail as a policy, right?

[zipplewrath]

100. A demand with no ability

Obama promised not to ring out too much savings from Big Pharma. And all of the regulation authority the got in HCR was over the INSURANCE industry. He did get the cadillac tax to encourage companies not to give too good of benefits to their employees. So we'll get cost containment via self imposed rationing of care, unfortunately mostly on the preventative side.

[lark]

90. No problem

Our president is bringing them to his office and asking them to forego the huge increases. They'll be nice, take it under consideration, walk out and laugh all the way to their cars because they aren't doing jack for him. They got most of what they wanted and none of what they really didn't want - competition.

Thanks a lot for nothing.

[ixion]

52. if you have a 'crisis' and you don't do anything about it for 4 years AFTER you've 'fixed' it

then
a) There is no crisis, or;

b) You haven't fixed anything, because you don't know what the landscape will look like in 4 years.

[liberation]

80. See, the problem is that you are using old 2D Chess rules, those are passe now...

[burnsei sensei]

58. The reform

did not cause the crisis.
It did not continue the crisis.
This crisis is continuing because the health care system, in structure, remains the same.

[dflprincess]

75. The health care system is not the problem - it's the parasitc insurance companies

that drive up costs in the name of profit. Their increases get lumped in with increases for actual care and that explains why our costs are higher and go up faster than those in civilized countries where the populace actually has access to care. They also contribute the rise in care costs because so many Americans put off seeing a doctor until a situation becomes dire and costs more to correct.

Nothing in the Health Insurance Profit (and campaign contribution) Protection Act is going to change this. And, by digging the vultures in deeper, it may make the situation worse. There will be a short term drop in the number of uninsured but that will climb again and the number of underinsured will grow. More and more of us will find ourselves paying mandated premiums for a shoddy product we can't afford to use.

[burnsei sensei]

78. True, but please note

that you have called health insurance companies parasites.
So have I.
I have yet to hear any member of Congress or of the MSM call them parasites.
To the extent that our characterizations of them are ignored, we can safely say that the media and Congress are creatures of the elite, designed to protect their interests and not ours.
If anything laid bare the elitist nature of the state and its enablers, the health insurance reform debate did.
In spite of the name: Democrat, they still did not represent the people.

[lark]

92. Exactly!

No real changes = no real reform, just more entitlement for the insurance companies with a few new regulations which they will probably find ways around. Sounds like more of the same to me. I'd love it if the "regulators" actually required real proof to raise rates. For example, the no pre-existing clause, what will they charge to make up the extra expense - you know we'll pay out the wazoo for this and the coverage for children up to 26 and I really didn't see anything else about the bill that was a control on insurance/big pharma. The main thrust of the bill is that the insurance co's will soon have millions of captive new customers and the co-opts will be so expensive that they will be totally worthless - just as they now are in ND and MA.

No hope, no real change for the good.

[liberation]

76. Wait, some posters were crooning about how greatly reduced their premiums are now...

So what is it? It seems the reform is instantaneous when it comes to praise it, but we still have to wait until 2014 to cast criticism.

[Skittles]

123. same as with Obama

[Skittles]

122. HELLO

that's just another reason it SUCKS

[Warren Stupidity]

126. It is indeed another reason why it is lame.

I have no issue with that. I do have an issue with blaming health insurance reform that does not take effect until 2014 for the continuing egregious price increases imposed by the insurance industry. These increases preceded this legislation and are continuing with this legislation that does not take effect for another 3+ years. It is a false argument (and it is not entirely clear that the OP actually made the argument) that HCR should be blamed for the increases.

[Skittles]

130. so basically

the system is still broken and the "fix" won't occur until, well, until the insurance companies have been given enough time to jack the rates sky high......niiiiiiiiiice

[Warren Stupidity]

136. The insurance companies were already doing that

- your attack is exactly what I think is a false argument. Yes it is very unfortunate that the legislation will not take effect for years, no there is no evidence that insurance rates are being 'jacked sky high' because of this legislation. And finally without this legislation three years from now the current lack of control over rates would be the status quo then. This is not a great reform at all, it is a minor one, but it will eventually help make insurance and coverage affordable and available to more people.

[Skittles]

142. "there is no evidence"

:rofl: please, do tell me WHY so-called "reform" has to wait until 2014

on second thought, never mind, I am DONE here

[Warren Stupidity]

143. no evidence and no argument

I think perhaps you "are done here" because you in fact have no evidence that rate increases are caused by this legislation.

As to your other complaint, I have agreed several times that the delayed implementation is yet another bad feature.

Now tell me why we would be better off in 2014, with respect to insurance premium costs, with no legislation, with 2014's rates being just as unregulated as 2010s?

Oh, I forgot, you are done here, and you have proven the validity of your case with a rofl.

[asjr]

3. "Health" insurance companies and

pharmaceuticals own us. If I did not have Medicare I would have been dead a couple of years ago. Every time I see something about privatizing Medicare I cringe. Perhaps it would occur for future recipients but even that should not happen. We have definitely become a nation of haves and have nots.

[bluethruandthru]

30. and that's the way the pubs want it.

The last thing they want is for the serfs (us) to have quality healthcare, decent wages, education, etc. If we're healthy, secure and educated...we just might vote them all out of office and demand that they quit handing over the country to corporations.

[SammyWinstonJack]

113. +1. nt

[xchrom]

4. Recommend

[mdmc]

5. still fully insured, still lacking access to medical treatment

[niceypoo]

43. Same here

Ive been sick since the first week of April, I have 'insurance' and I cant afford to go.

[mdmc]

69. I earn very little and am very sick

So I either need to make more money or become healthier..

[Enthusiast]

91. Kind of hard to earn

more when you are sick. I know. I hope you find your condition (whatever it is) to be improving.

[mdmc]

139. thanks for the kind thoughts

:pals:

[onpatrol98]

93. ditto

[h9socialist]

7. Solution

Forget all the wrangling -- we should nationalize all the hospitals and draft all doctors into the
Army, and pay them on a civil servant's pay scale. As to the insurance companies: Put 'em out of business! Accept a driver's license, passport or Social Security card at admittance and finance the health care system through heavily progressive taxation!

[RC]

8. Do what Canada is doing.

Hospitial, clinics and doctors are private. Government pays the bills.
Another thing, we need to stop restricting the number of people getting into medical schools. If they think they have what it takes, let them in. Those that don't will get weeded out. Maybe we would then have less bad doctors that bought their way in.

At any rate get rid of the parasitic health insurance companies that are killing us for money.
Single Payer, Universal Health Care.

[Vinca]

11. And Canada's economy is the envy of the world to boot!

[wordpix]

18. well, I'm pretty damn envious- they get subsidized college, child care, health care, unemployment

And BTW, it's not "free." Canadians and visitors to Canada pay very high sales tax on everything but food to cover the social safety net costs. It varies from province to province but as I recall, last time I visited BC, the sales tax was something like 20%.

I know a young Canadian considering grad school. He has worked in the environmental non-profit area during college and right after, so I know he can't have a pile of money saved up. I asked him how he would be able to pay for grad school and he said it's only about $1500 per semester for tuition. (He also said he doesn't mind paying the high sales tax, since it pays for health care, etc.).

With that kind of low college cost, you can afford to go to college and with a part-time job and living with friends or family, pay for everything without going into heavy debt.

[Heywood J]

60. 15% on booze, 12% on just about everything else.

The federal GST is 5%, the provinces impose from 0-8% themselves (just like the individual states do).

[wordpix]

67. Not bad considering what you get for it & are Canadian provinces/fed gov in the same debt we are?

Seems to me they're better off

[Flatulo]

84. Don't forget, they don't have a $.5T defense budget. That is what's killing us. nt

[wordpix]

102. I know that so tell me again, why are we building war machinery & nukes we can't use?

:shrug:

Yes we need to defend the country but we could certainly cut back on expensive weaponry that never gets used.

[Heywood J]

103. Actually, the entire federal budget for the country is less than

that $500B figure...

Total expenditures C$280.5 billion
Deficit C$49.2. billion
Debt (2009) C$492.4 billion

2002:
Total revenue C$177.6 billion
Total expenditures C$170.6 billion
Program Spending C$133.3 billion
Debt payment C$37.3 billion
Surplus C$7.0 billion
Debt C$510.6 billion

http://www.fin.gov.on.ca/en/budget/ontariobudgets/2010/ch2a.html#c2_secA_table1
Province of Ontario:
2010–11 Revenue Plan $106.9 billion
2010–11 Expense Plan $125.9 billion

[ProudDad]

105. The war budget actually tops out at over $1.2 Trillion... (nt/)

[Flatulo]

107. I think that's additional spending on top of the annual defense allocation...?

[ProudDad]

109. Yep...

The DOD war budget is just the tip of the iceberg of the Permanent War Economy...

It's all war shit to me...

[ProudDad]

110. And the actual direct war budget for DOD only

is $668 million...and rising...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget_of_the_United_States

[burnsei sensei]

119. If I could secure concrete

social and personal benefits by paying such taxes, I would pay them IN A HEARTBEAT.
As it is, I pay high prices and secure very, very little that is lasting or committed to service.

[h9socialist]

88. I understand your position . . .

. . . I used to be an advocate and activist for single payer. The problem is that the
British model is better, and gets capitalism out of medicine completely!

[bvar22]

95. No.

We had to have "A Uniquely American Solution."
None of the 37 Universal Health Care Systems in every other civilized country in the WORLD was good enough for us.
Even our own Single Payer System, Medicare was not good enough.

Americans would just have to settle for Far LESS than the rest of the civilized WORLD takes for granted because we needed a "Uniquely American Solution."
To full realize how BAD our system is, and how BAD the "reform" is, simply compare it to what is available in the Rest of the WORLD where Health Care is a guaranteed RIGHT.

The "reform" does NOT give us a "Guaranteed right to Health Care".
It only FORCES us to BUY Health Insurance which most will not be able to use due to High Co-Pays and Deductibles.

The Best Health Care in the World....for the very RICH.
That remains unchanged.
THAT is the "Uniquely American Solution".

[Mimosa]

140. That's the solution

Even Australia has public option. Did we get that?

[Flatulo]

14. Yeah, forcing doctors at gunpoint to work for slave wages should really improve the quality of care.

[fasttense]

23. Who is holding doctors at gunpoint?

The only doctors at gunpoint are those who provide abortion services.

No one has to become a doctor. They can choose another profession if they want to make loads of money, like banking. You know, just like pilots and computer programmers had to choose another profession when the federal government attacked their Unions and when their jobs were shipped out of the country. Remember when pilots use to make big salaries? Remember when programmers were bringing home six figure salaries? I do.

Doctors allowed this to happen by putting up little to no resistance when the health insurance corporations were consolidating control. They love the money. They were co-opted by the insurance corporations. They could have fought it but they didn't.


Have you ever wondered why there are so many doctors going into politics? Because they have the money and work well with corporations.

[Flatulo]

26. I was responding to this poster here, who suggested that Drs be drafted.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4436849&mesg_id=4436885

Sorry for ommiting the sarcasm icon. I obviously think that drafting doctors is a terrible idea. Sorry if this wasn't clear.

Personally, I'd much rather be treated by a greedy doctor who was highly skilled than a butcher with good intentions and a love of his fellow man.

[fasttense]

28. Oh, thanks for clarifying.

But is that our only choice? A highly skilled money hungry greedy SOB, or a criminally negligent butcher with love for his fellow man? Seems to me there is a happy medium and that the price tag of your skills does not determine your expertise.

Seems we are able to get good pilots and programmers and still pay them $30,000 a year or less.

[Flatulo]

36. Depends on where you live... in the Northeast, Administrative Assistants

make $45K per year, and programmers easily pull in $100K. Nurses make $85K and more. PCPs are around $150K or so, which is not at all ridiculous when you factor in the 12 years of study required to practice.

FWIW, I don't think the ridiculous relentless increases we see in health care premiums is driven largely by the salaries of the providers. I think their salaries are about as stagnant as everyone elses.

[liberation]

82. Well, they do that all over in Europe... (without the "gunpoint" hyperbole)

And pretty much all their health care systems come far higher in quality ratings, and cheaper price.

Also since when working for the government equals "slave wages?"

[Flatulo]

85. But they do not force anyone to practice medicine. The poster I

was responding to suggested drafting all doctors into the army.

[Vinca]

86. Did you know that primary care doctors in other countries

often make more money that their U.S. counterparts? And they have less of a hassle doing business.

[h9socialist]

87. Sorry, didn't mean to go so soft on the SOBs!

[mwooldri]

127. Nationalizing hospitals and their staff... can work.

Drafting doctors into the army? Nope.

It's crazy that the UK's National Health Service is the 3rd or 4th worlds' largest employer and the NHS can get economies of scale that only the likes of Wal-Mart can this way. (no I am not advocating Wal-Martizing medical care in the USA, or the UK or anywhere for that matter). Doctors can then choose... they can contract and do work for the nationalized health system at a "reasonable" salary - or try and create their own market. Doctors who actually want to practice medicine and aren't so worried about the $$$'s in their pocket as long as their bills are paid for will most likely go in with the national system because they'd have less paperwork and less insurance companies to fight with and if they say a patient should get X treatment and the patient agrees, then the patient gets X treatment. We could also add on an incentive - sign up for the national system, work with us X years, your medical student loans are eliminated - AND are in forebearance whilst you are working in the system. Doctors usually come out of medical school with massive debts and usually demand a high level of monetary compensation to compensate for the fact the student loans people are eating them alive.

[SHRED]

12. And people are blaming Obama

That is what I am hearing.
That premiums are rising because of the health "reform" bill.

Of course I live in red San Diego County so I take it with a grain of salt but many here are saying this.


---

[Lost4words]

17. cause,... like its the TRUTH! maybe,...

[zipplewrath]

42. Not directly

There will always be two underlying implications in these stories, one from the left and one from the right.

The left is pointing out that HCR did little to nothing to control health care costs.

The right will be suggesting that HCR is causing costs and rates to go up.

[burnsei sensei]

61. Obama is not responsible for this.

Karen Ignagni and big pharma are.
If there is any blame to be placed here, let it be on them.

[liberation]

83. The buck stops at his desk...

... he and his Dem pals botched the reform.

The sad part is that they screwed up the reform in order to cater to the right, who will use the negative mindshare created by the botching of the reform as PR against Obama et al. We were told Obama was playing a mean game of 3D chess, when in reality he is a rather pedestrian checkers player.

He threw significant chunks of the Dem base under the bus, in order to gain the validation of those who hate his guts. Good luck...

[burnsei sensei]

96. He and Rahm let Karen in the room,

and Karen took out her castrating knife and did the rest, according to a friend of mine.
They allowed her so much power because they feared another "Harry and Louise" campaign.
I think AHIP should have been left out in the cold.
I would love to have them launch another "Harry and Louise" campaign in light of the number of people who have died due to lack of health insurance and the families left behind. I don't think it would get as far.
In fact, such an approach would produce diminishing returns if they kept it up because as time goes on, more people are going to die as a result of the system itself.
They will leave behind mourners who understand these deaths as being due to the unjust system created by Ignagni and her friends.
A system endorsed and even strengthened by the current "reform".
Still, she and her organization are 100% responsible for mass voluntary manslaughter.
As responsible for the 45,000+ deaths each year as Timothy McVeigh was for the deaths at the Oklahoma City bombing.
Both are voluntary manslaughter or 1st degree murder.
I compare Karen to Tim because they both come from Niagara County, New York.

[girl gone mad]

115. The reason Edwards was popular here early on..

is because he promised he wouldn't even let them sit at the table.

[burnsei sensei]

118. I don't think Obama knew who he was dealing with.

AHIP is the infernal serpent. They'll do anything, stoop to any level to preserve medicine and health insurance for profit.
They have so much blood on their hands, and such terrible arrogance. If anyone wants to see sin walking upright, just take a look at Ignagni.

[laughingliberal]

120. Don't leave out the hospital industry. That was, actually, the first domino that fell...

in the destruction of our health care system. Remember? The free markets would create competition and drive costs down and quality up. Next thing you knew, for profit, publicly traded corps were buying up our hospitals and costs have skyrocketed and quality has plunged ever since. Let us not forget this as we hear arguments for turning more of our public services over to private, for profit companies. (Hint: education).

[nradisic]

19. No shit Sherlock...

Without a single payer system, this country will go bankrupt...

I own a small business in NJ and our health insurance rates went up 30% this year vs. last. One more increase like that and we will be another business and family that can no longer afford what coverage we have...I am not sure the country can wait until 2014 for real reform...

[Flatulo]

24. I'm currently spending 50% of my net pay on health insurance. Thank heavens

my house is paid for or I'd be living in my car.

I don't know how on earth anyone with even half a brain thinks that people can afford this.

This is in Massachusetts, where we've had the mandate for a few years now.

[SocialistLez]

53. ::jaw drops::

50??

Good grief.

[Flatulo]

54. We make too much to qualify for the subsidies...

[AngryAmish]

20. This is unexpected.

[berni_mccoy]

21. Interesting, I just got the notice for my health insurance rate change...

it's up $15 over last year. I pay my own premiums by the way and this is the smallest increase I've seen in a decade.

[mdmc]

70. a silver lining

[raccoon]

22. Not only that, individual health insurance policies can have "riders" saying they won't

pay jacksquat on pre-existing condition(s) you have. NOT EVER, EVER, EVER.

[bluethruandthru]

25. Maybe if they go up high enough

we, in this country, can start to have a real, honest discussion about Universal Single Payer. I guess that would mean that we'd have to put duct tape over the mouths of all the faux news and right wing radio talking heads.

[scentopine]

29. Not as long as "centrists" keep obstructing progress...

the defenders of the "free" market (corporations subsidized by your wages) will kill real reform. Health "reform" was an aspirin for the cancer that is killing us.

Unfortunately as long as we keep voting for the same people, nothing will change.

[Lorien]

35. Yep, and that free market is literally killing some of us

I could no longer afford my premiums and I could never afford my 12k deductible, so no more health insurance. I need a slew of tests including an MRI, plus surgery, yet there's no way that I'll ever be able to afford any of it. Thanks free market, you've priced me out of any kind of care at all, but my health "insurance" company made over 80k from my payments over the years while only paying out $200.00 worth a benefits. What a deal! Now I'm trying to find something to sell for another fund raiser for yet another former colleague who needs life saving cancer surgery and can't afford it. Third such fund raiser in a year. Your life is only worth as much as your friends can get for it at an auction. :mad:

[fasttense]

27. Remember when people use to buy car insurance

and then not report accidents because they didn't want their premiums to go up? Remember when car insurance was first made mandatory in most states and the price sky rocketed? Remember back then when people never used their car insurance because it wouldn't pay for anything? Slowly but surely, most states started regulating the hell out of most car insurance companies. So, now, if you look carefully, you can find a decent car insurance corporation that will do what it says.

Maybe in another 20 years or so, health insurance will become as reliable as car insurance.

[Dr.Phool]

34. Yep, right about the time I'll be dead!

[Flatulo]

39. That's a very good analogy. Here in Massachusetts, my car

insurance literally tripled back in the late '70s when they passed reform. My insurance was twice the cost of my car!

It took two decades of careful tweaking, but I now pay a reasonable rate and get excellent service. Last year my car was heavily damaged by hail, and the company promptly paid what was required to get it fixed right and didn't raise my rates afterwards.

I think most people understand how insurance is supposed to work - everyone pays in, and only some take out, and the company can make reasonable profit. Nowadays, the health insurance companies seem to have forgotten (on purpose) the principle. If you use the insurance, they kill you with rate increases or drop you altogether.

[Fearless]

40. +1

[Lydia Leftcoast]

47. If I ever, God forbid, need to be hospitalized, I hope it's for a car accident,

not for an illness.

I was suffered injuries in a car accident in 1999 (not in my own car, and someone else was driving), and I never paid a bill. The driver simply told me to mail the bills to his insurance company, and that was the end.

[ProudDad]

106. Not likely. You don't HAVE to own a car... (n/t)

[derby378]

31. Yep, our insurance rates are going up, too

We're not getting any raises this year, as the money is being used to offset the higher premiums.

Who was it on DU that said we'd be cheering this whole "healthcare reform" deal within a year? I'm not seeing that.

[Deep13]

32. But insurance corporations are pure and noble creatures...

...who are only looking out for us. They would never act out of avarice or malice.

:sarcasm:

[obxhead]

33. This will continue as well. Guarantee 20% and the first thing

a capitalist system will do is make that same 20% translate to a higher profit.

Once 2014 rolls around I fully expect to see ins cos negotiate higher pay for procedures with hospitals and doctors. It's a win win for them. They are Guaranteed their 20%. Paying more out is the only way to increase profit when they get locked into a cap based on a percentage.

This Health insurance reform bill is going to cost a LOT more than any of the projected numbers we got while it was "debated."

[KansDem]

37. Of course it is! Without a public option to offer competition...

...where's the incentive to contain costs?

Once the "robust public option" proved to be nothing but claptrap, the insurance company CEOs popped their champagne corks and slapped each other on the backs.

The sky's the limit!!!

[alfredo]

38. We need to frame these increases as punitive. They are

designed to punish us for supporting reform.

[Crowman1979]

41. You see, this is what bi-partisanship get you.

A raw deal!

[grahamhgreen]

44. The bill MUST be fixed. As promised.

[bvar22]

97. LOL.

They are going to "fix" it right after they fix NAFTA and the Patriot Act.

Anytime you hear any Politician say they are going to "fix it later", you are being scammed.
Hide your wallet.

[grahamhgreen]

101. Too right!

[YOY]

133. Damn straight.

n.t.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

45. I dropped my insurance in protest after I ended up having to pay

for the entire treatment of an injury out-of-pocket, during a time when my business was in a deep slump. I'm still paying off the bills, six months later.

That was AFTER I'd paid thousands and thousands of dollars to an insurance company in what is supposed to be a "good" state for health insurance.

I suspected this would happen, and I actually had to think about whether I wanted the injury treated.

(Ironically, the doctor who charged the most, the orthopedist, actually did the least.)

While I was home recuperating, unable to do very much, I realized that if I had taken those six years worth of insurance premiums and put them in the bank, I would have had more than enough to pay for all the medical care I haven't received. I also knew that my "milestone" birthday this month push my premiums into another price tier in addition to the double-digit increases that have occurred every year.

While my business is returning, it got worse before it got better, and a couple of months ago, I was extremely relieved not to have those hundreds of dollars automatically deducted (the only way the ins. co. would accept payment) from my account on the 5th of the month.

All this for the "privilege" of having the insurance company mail me statements of how they were NOT covering such-and-such an expense because I hadn't met my deductible. That's literally all they did for me during those six years.

I think people with individual policies should look at their situations and do some math. One of my online friends from another forum is paying $1000 a month for a policy for a family of three with a $10,000 deductible. In other words, they're paying $12,000 a year for the "privilege" of paying the first $10,000 of their medical expenses.

Every situation is different, of course. For some people on expensive medications, insurance is a bargain.

But the rest of us need to think carefully.

Yes, a catastrophic illness would bankrupt me, but having to use up my $5,000 deductible ($25,000 if out of network) would have bankrupted me anyway. Besides, as a self-employed person, I've gone through bankruptcy before, and while it's a huge hassle, embarrassing, ironically expensive, and not something I want to repeat, it's not the end of the world.

Far from being frightening, it feels good. I'm free of one of the greatest vultures in this country, one that takes in barrels of money from individuals and (unlike my experience with car insurance companies), goes into contortions to keep from paying.

Right now, I know an insured family whose teen-age son has cancer. Recently the parents wrote in their blog that they've had to take out a second mortgage on their house to pay for treatment. (That's WITH insurance.) They wondered what happens to kids whose parents don't have a house to take out a second mortgage on.

That case is a great one for opponents of single-payer health care, because even in systems with rationing (e.g. the UK), a teenager with his whole life ahead of him would receive treatment, no questions asked.

[pitohui]

112. i don't understand this post

even if you had a high deductible policy, say $10K, what injury only costs $10K to treat these days?

i just talked to a man who broke his ankle and his insurance had lapsed, the cost of that treatment was $20K!!! if he had realized his insurance had lapsed, yes, he would have had to pay the deductible, but it would have been like $500 or something not $20K

i've known people who had hundreds of thousands of dollars in treatments (for serious injury and/or cancer) -- yah, one of them did go bankrupt, but there's a big difference between going bankrupt and still getting hundreds of thousands of dollars of chemo and surviving, and being dead now because he didn't have any money for treatment

if you had an injury that cost less than the deductible, well, to be honest, i'd be glad i had such a minor injury, that isn't what my insurance is for, it's for injuries and diseases that would take everything i've worked for, such as my house, car, a lifetime of work in the form of my puny savings...

i don't need insurance to pay for things i can save up and pay for in six years, who does? but most people can't just save up and pay for health care, it doesn't cost a few thousand dollars, which in theory any middle-aged adult might be able to save (other than the very poorest) it costs HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS, more than my husband & i both of us have ever been able to save in a lifetime of working

remember, they don't HAVE to treat you, they ONLY have to stabilize you, if you can't pay

the guy i knew with hodgkin's disease would be dead now, of a curable cancer, if he had not been able to get treatment thru his insurer, there is no way that by working hard and saving his money he would have ever had the hundreds of thousands of dollars saved up, he was too young when he got it

and some of us would never have that much money in savings if we worked our whole lives...

i guess i'm saying i don't see the relevance of your apparently minor injury that didn't cost enough to meet a deductible, if costs were usually or often less than the deductible, sure, who would need insurance? but costs are frequently sky high, more money than most of us make after taxes in our lifetime

i believe there should be a cap on costs/premiums and that health insurance should be non profit ONLY, never for profit, but baby steps...we live in a country that has so much hysteria about "communism" and "socialism" that we're having trouble getting there from here

[Lydia Leftcoast]

117. I thought about all those things, but the cost of the insurance was

getting in the way of my having ANY kind of treatment at all. I hadn't had any of my diagnostic tests, only emergency treatment.

I decided that I would refuse to give in to fear. The insurance companies count on us being scared so that we'll pay anything they charge and accept any terms they require. In turn, the health providers feel that they can charge any old thing they want.

I think if EVERYONE dropped their insurance, the system would collapse, and that would be a GOOD thing.

I'm not married, no children, don't own a house. My business took a hit for a year, and by the time I suffered the injury, I was nearly broke. And what did the insurance company do for me? The same big fat ZERO that they've done for the past six years, just kept deducting that monthly premium from my rapidly dwindling bank account, sending me glossy pamphlets telling how much they "cared" about my health, and increasing my rates by double digits every year, even though I had never used up my deductible.

If I could get a policy like the one I had in the 1990s, with affordable premiums, NO DEDUCTIBLES, and modest co-pays, I'd jump at the chance.

But I refuse to feed the greedheads any longer.

By the way, all three insurance companies that sell individual policies in Minnesota are allegedly "non-profit," but they sure aren't charities. The executives earn lavish salaries, the buildings are luxurious, and they still have employees whose job it is to figure out how NOT to pay out. That's not to mention all their brochures and advertising. While remaining non-profit on paper, they have adopted most of the evil practices of the for-profit industry.

[Name removed]

46. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dotymed]

50. I know many people dying now

because they cannot afford (for profit) insurance and the "safety nets" won't cover them either, no matter how poor they are. They will be dead before 2014. I will soon join the great mass of the uninsurable due to my heart failure and having used up my "banked hours" from my Union, to keep insurance. At least I had enough hours saved up to last me 5 years. Hell, I take 20 meds a day to live and medicaid refused me because SS disability said I can work. All of my Dr.'s disagree with their strip mall, no patients or receptionist Dr. however.

[burnsei sensei]

62. Because dead people tell no tales,

it's important for you to talk about these people, their suffering and their deaths to others. Don't let the fact that people are dying because of this system be a deep dark secret.
And above all, don't resign yourself to it. It isn't right. Not here, not in the next world either.

[tjwash]

51. Really? And the article writer went to college for how many years to figure that one out?

:eyes:

I know that the attention span of the average American voter has actually been reduced to what can fit on a fucking bumper sticker or a t-shirt, but this is absolutely pathetic.

Anthem-blue-cross (who has the absolute WORST coverage for the money), started raising their premiums months before the bill even got into committee, and then after it looked like it may actually have a chance of passing, they tried raising them in 30 percent chunks. The CA state legislature had to get involved in that.

It's known as stripping the pictures from the walls, and stealing all the silverware on the way out the door.

[burnsei sensei]

56. In the health insurance reform debate,

cost was never mentioned.
Yet it was always the costs that needed to be controlled.
The health insurance racket is just a cover for extortion.

[SOS]

63. The system is on the road to collapse

$2.5 trillion now
$4.5 trillion in 2018

The day is soon coming when employers and individuals will no longer be able to pay these premiums.

Will the federal government bail out these miserable, crooked companies (like the banks in 2008)?
Or will they let it collapse and go to single payer?

Time will tell.

[stubtoe]

71. They're already trying to get blood out of rocks.

Either Big Insurance goes bankrupt or the rest of us do.

[burnsei sensei]

99. Blood out of rocks

is an excellent metaphor.
I would probably add blood out of gravestones to it.

[burnsei sensei]

98. The health insurance and health care

industries are playing a game of diminishing returns.
They are asking for things they cannot have.
The balances have been tipping away from for-profit sustainability since the 1970s-- and what we see here is the near-end of a process.

[lynne]

64. Can't say it wasn't discussed and, frankly, I'm not surprised -

- and actually anticipated rate increases. The ability to underwrite has been removed as companies will soon have to accept all applicants and pre-existing conditions. I imagine the rate increases are to offset those factors. Not sure how it plays in all states, but in many a rate increase by a company has to be approved by the states Bureau of Insurance or State Corporation Commission, the company can't just arbitrarily increase rates.

The possibility of rate increases was being discussed October 2009:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/10/11/AR2009101102207.html

[DesertDiamond]

66. Faced with the prospect of universal health care, they increasingly make the case for

their own demise. I don't get it. Unless they are expecting universal to become law soon and they are scraping up every penny of profit they can before it happens.

[OllieLotte]

74. Of course....this was expected. n/t

[humbled_opinion]

77. And what did everyone expect? LOL....

Without a public option the insurance industry is going to continue to rape the American people but thanks to Obama and our chicken shit leaders in Congress we upped the ante we will now mandate that Americans purchase unaffordable health insurance as the corporations continue to rape us the government will come in behind to apply the lube....

[DRex]

81. Entirely predictable outcome....

This is why half-steps are no steps at all.

The very principle on which these companies operate is wrong.

[Enthusiast]

89. All the more reason to

move to a more efficient single payer system. How many will have to die or be bankrupted before we shove the greedy aside and create a 'good' health care system?

[Stinky The Clown]

94. Man We sure dodged a bullet with that fucked up single payer notion that was being touted.

Yep. Glad we chose not to go down THAT path.
















Extreme sarcasm (in case it might not have been obvious)

[femrap]

108. Anthem Blue Cross

raised mine 27% this year.

I hate Corporations....and those that make money off illnesses...well, I really hate those.

[bvar22]

138. I hate Corporations....and those that make money off illnesses...

...AND the politicians that do their dirty work...Democrat OR Republican.

[femrap]

141. Exactly! nt

[Mimosa]

111. I'm scared because I may have to drop it. n/t

[Greyhound]

114. K&R for more of that "change".

[senseandsensibility]

124. k and r

eom

[NorthCarolina]

125. Ever increasing Insurance Rates. Now THAT'S change you CAN believe in. eom

[MrsCorleone]

128. It's awfully nice of the fine folks at Kaiser to conduct these helpful little surveys.

I mean, it's not as if this nonprofit, tax exempt insurer doesn't jack up their own members' premiums every single solitary year.

It also makes me feel so much better to see that the money that I shell out for Kaiser prescriptions go to charity. At least that's how it's categorized on my credit card statement.

:sarcasm:

[eridani]

135. If non-profits are on the same playing fields as for-profits, they play the same game--

--or go out of business. Otherwise known as the race to the bottom.

[DollyM]

131. my new employer doesn't even offer health insurance. . .

After finding only a part time job and being grateful for that, I found a full time job recently. I was excited that I would be able to get health insurance. WRONG! They don't even offer it. This is a professional organization too and a professional position. I was so shocked that the don't even offer it for us to buy. I am grateful for more money and more hours but heading for a knee replacement surgery that I cannot afford without some insurance so I don't know what I am going to do. In this state, the only way you can get health care coverage it seems is to pop out the babies as fast as you. How ridiculous that being irresponsible can get you medical care covered in this state. (I am too old to have more babies so forget that!)

[gorfle]

132. Mine just went up $100

My employer-based insurance just went up $100 a month. And our hospitals our now tiered so that we basically have to go to one hospital or it will cost more.

And people bitch because "The government will dictate your health care terms!"

[area51]

134. It's long past time to start a transition to single-payer health care.

Stop the two wars of choice, bring the soldiers home, offer them training in the health care professions, or working on repairing the crumbling infrastructure in this country.

Each day, 273 people die due to lack of health care in the U.S.

We need single-payer health care, not a welfare bailout for the serial-killer insurance agencies.

[Imagevision]

137. The great American melt down. This began the day Bush stole the election and we'll be

paying for it for the next 50 years. Boomers? no longer a problem with the high numbers losing their medicare they'll be dying off in large numbers. Donut hole, another Bush ingenious idea that he allowed the pharms to write into rule and simply left the paperwork on Bush's desk to sign and put into law then get back to the "yacht races.