Voters to decide on California global warming law

[cory777]

Source: AP

An initiative that seeks to suspend California's landmark global warming law until unemployment drops will appear on the November election ballot.

California Secretary of State Debra Bowen certified the initiative on Tuesday. It's the sixth proposition to qualify for the ballot.

The California Jobs Initiative seeks to delay the state's global warming law until the unemployment rate falls from its current rate of 12.4 percent to 5.5 percent or lower and stays there for a year.

<the best part>

Oil companies funded the drive to put the initiative on the ballot. It is backed by business groups who say the law could cost jobs and lead to higher energy prices.

Read more: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hKPBv6ryL27OX8lhnZ0QgZWhXl7QD9GGL1280

[xxqqqzme]

1. bullshit!

They gonna take their drills and go elsewhere? Nope. They extract poison from the ground wherever they find it and sell it on the world market - I repeat bullshit! I hope the voters here do not fall for this crap.

[Cleita]

4. I'm afraid they will. Look at the propositions that were passed in

the primary election. Don't people look for the man behind the curtain on these propositions anymore? :-(

[Auggie]

6. Prop 16 failed, and that was backed by a huge utility company

that spent millions trying to pass it:

LINK: http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/California_Proposition_16_(June_2010)

Proposition 16, the New Two-Thirds Requirement for Local Public Electricity Providers Act was on the June 8, 2010 ballot in California as an initiated constitutional amendment, where it was defeated.

If Proposition 16 had been approved by voters, it would have henceforward taken a two-thirds vote of the electorate before a public agency could enter the retail power business. This would have made it more difficult than it is currently for local entities to form either municipal utilities, or community wide clean electricity districts called Community Choice Aggregators (CCAs). Forming a local municipal utility or a CCA, if Proposition 16 had been approved, would have required the approval, through election, of 2/3rds of the voters who live in the area of the would-be local municipal utility or CCA.

Pacific Gas & Electric was the primary financial sponsor of the initiative, having contributed $46.1 million. That made PG&E the Goliath in a David-v-Goliath battle, since Prop 16's opponents had access to less than $100,000.

[Cleita]

18. At least that one failed and I'm really relieved.

These props, including the open primary one that was approved, are an effort to compromise our voting system. With these propositions and the effort to start intimidating Mexican Americans from going to the polls like they are in Arizona, we will be delivered into the hands of big money Republicans. I don't like what I'm seeing at all.

[MisterP]

16. but John Avlon said that a miracle-worker with 21% approval rating

brought about the earth-shaking change of Prop 14 with a whopping 7% of the state population voting for it...

[Cleita]

19. It certainly makes you wonder.

:eyes:

[Xithras]

27. Actually, it has nothing to do with drilling.

The law simply defined greenhouse gasses as a "pollutant", and empowered the CARB to regulate it with a directive to reduce emissions to 1990 levels by 2020. The CARB is much like the Coastal Commission in California, in that it's an unelected board with "superauthority" status to execute its directives. It can implement new laws and regulations on almost any topic related to its charter WITHOUT getting permission from the legislature or the governor (if the CARB passes a rule that the legislature doesn't like, the legislature has to draft and pass a law to countermand it). It has proven to be fairly immune to political pressure since its creation in the 1970's, and has a long history of stepping on toes to get its job done.

The oil companies are afraid that CARB regulation of fossil fuel burning will lead to drastic cuts in their profits as people turn to alternative fuel sources. THAT is why they are fighting this.

[SunnySong]

2. Some things are to important to be left up to voters (ie the uninformed mob)

Civil rights for gays was one example this is clearly another.

[SocialistLez]

3. +1 NT

[pezDispenser]

5. wow

thats a scary world you propose.

[SunnySong]

8. No a scary world is when the same people who vote on American Idol are in charge

of voting for the future of mankind.

[pezDispenser]

10. well until we can ensure only benevolent dictators are in charge

I'll stick with whats got us this far.

[SunnySong]

12. What has gotten us this far is a Representative republic... not letting the mob rule. nt

[PSPS]

9. Not at all

Policy decisions are almost always wrong when left to a plebiscite. That's why our system is set up as a representative democracy. We elect representatives who, we trust, will inform themselves on a matter and make the right decision. The problem is that corporate money has corrupted the system.

If everything were decided with a plebiscite, we'd still have slavery in the south.

[Uncle Joe]

28. I agree with you that corporate money has corrupted the system but Representative Democracy allowed

corporate money to take hold of it, a Representative Democracy also brought us the Gulf Catastrophe.

Plebiscite rule may have the weakness of being more easily swayed by its' passions, but it's also a hell of a lot easier to bribe a few hundred "representatives" versus millions or tens of millions of the people.

In turn if those representatives are bribed by a corrupted, dysfunctional system set in place by themselves, they can wrongly sway the passions of the plebes, mostly whenever they want to, as in the war with Iraq.

[jdlh8894]

7. (ie the uninformed mob)?

Maybe we should be a PURE democracy.:evilgrin:

[Odin2005]

13. Prop. H8 made destroyed any sympathy I had for the Initiative-Referendum system.

[Robert DAH Bruce]

25. Same here!

[Unvanguard]

11. Oh, California, you and your silly initiative system...

:eyes:

[NBachers]

15. I'm waiting for the Californians for Kittens and Butterflies Initiative

What kind of poison murder shit will be concealed in that one?

[droidamus2]

14. This is pretty obvious

Those backing the initiative want to kill the global warming legislation so they did a little research and figured out that at no time in the last 50 years or some other long period of time the California Unemployment rate has never stayed at 5.5 or lower for a full year. No I haven't done the research on this but sure as hell wouldn't surprise me to find out I am right. EDIT : Just looked it up the average unemployment rate in California since 1976 is 7.1 % in only 6 of those years did the yearly rate go under 5.5. If I read the initiative right they aren't looking at the yearly rate but that the rate would have to stay at or below 5.5 for a whole year. Correct me if I'm wrong so if unemployment was at 5.3 for January-June then went up to 5.6 in July and then was at 5.3 for the rest of the year oops oh well no global warming legislation it didn't stay at or below 5.5 for a whole year.

[Frank Booth]

17. This will pass.

It's cleverly disguised to look reasonable, especially with unemployment so awful here right now. Voters will think "we can wait a few years to tackle global warming."

California politics are really depressing.

[time_has_come]

20. I thought California was solidly progressive? n/t

[Frank Booth]

21. Nope.

Los Angeles, San Francisco and some other areas around the coast are solidly progressive. Other areas of the state might as well be Wyoming.

Anyway, regardless of political affiliation, Californians can always be counted on to vote for stupid propositions, especially when they're worded in a way that sounds appealing. I'll be shocked if this proposition doesn't pass.

[Cleita]

22. Only the urban ones like Los Angeles and San Francisco and all the beaches between there..

Otherwise the state is largely red. I live in the reddest Congressional district in California, yet a narrow district that runs along the beach is liberal. It's very strange.

[xxqqqzme]

29. Do you live in the 46th?

What you are describing is the way the 46th was gerrymandered.

[Cleita]

30. No, the 22nd. I was in the 23rd and was gerrymandered into the 22nd.

The 23rd is mostly Santa Barbara County but keeps a sliver along the beaches of San Luis Obispo County up to Monterey County. Our local Democrats won't even run a Democrat against my Congressman Kevin McCarthy, so he basically has a throne to this district. I hope after the census I get gerrymandered back into the 23rd.

[Retrograde]

31. They're all gerrymandered

The congressional districts, as well as the state senate and assembly ones, were carefully laid out so that the chances of the party then in power of losing their seats was close to zero. There've been a few cases where the population shifted before the district could be remapped, which is why McNerney took Pombo's old seat two elections back, but those are rare.

[tazme]

23. California is progressive, its just that they are not suicidal

People actually have to have jobs in order to eat, have clothing, shelter, etc. Weather change, global warming/cooling, icebergs melting, and problems with the ozone layer are going to come in second to supporting a family for most rational folks. The measure should and will pass, and when things improve, we can again attack these issues with success. I'm just saying, its hard to get an Ethiopian excited about polar bear plight, when his family is starving.

[Nihil]

26. Nice twist: Short-sighted with a deathwish = "not suicidal" (n/t)

:banghead:

[Big_Mike]

24. AB32 simply went too far, too fast

I don't remember the genesis and NEVER heard about the bill before it was signed.

It simply goes too far, and eliminates too many jobs. It is great to live in California, but if everyone is out of work, who earns the money to pay the taxes that are required to keep the state going? No jobs + no purchases = no sales taxes. This all leads to a horrendous crash.

The goals outlined in AB32 should be something phased in over 20 years. I am a child of the Inland Empire of the 60s and 70s. I lived at the base of the San Bernardino Mountains, but it was so smoggy then you couldn't see the mountains 3 miles away! But by the early to mid 90s, it was fairly clear every day. The air levels became better as restrictions phased in gradually, not all at once. Jobs were not killed, yet the air improved.

The problems with AB32 is that everything began in a year or two. Diesel engines had to be rebuilt or replaced with better efficiency units. Yeah, the major carriers and the bus makers could pay for this, but the poor guy driving a 10 year old rig worth maybe $20K couldn't afford the $30K to bring it up to standard, and (about) 10,000 drivers left the road. These are solid, middle-class jobs; many of them were Teamsters until they tried to be an owner/operator and lost everything due to the changes.

This was not thought out by people who understand cause and effect. Or if they did understand it, they simply did not care.

[Devil_Fish]

32. I live in CA, and the more I read, the more I feel I need to leave the country. N/T