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Turborama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 07:10 AM
Original message
(60) California interfaith leaders to back ground zero Islamic center
Edited on Fri Aug-20-10 07:16 AM by Turborama
Source: CNN

A group of 60 interfaith leaders in California will come out Friday in favor of a controversial Islamic center near ground zero in New York City.

"Christian, Jewish, Mormon and Muslim leaders will address the rapidly expanding epidemic of Islamophobia across the nation -- from Temecula to Tennessee to New York to Connecticut -- which they view as a threat to religious freedom and rights of mosques, churches, and synagogues to exist," the group said in a statement.

The event will take place at the Islamic Center of Southern California at 9:30 a.m. (12:30 p.m. ET).

The New York Islamic center's leaders say they plan to build the $100 million, 13-story facility called Park51 two blocks from the site of the 9/11 attacks.

Read more: http://edition.cnn.com/2010/US/08/20/california.islamic.center.controversy/index.html?eref=mrss_igoogle_cnn#fbid=5tFS21of5oJ&wom=false



More details at the link.

http://edition.cnn.com/video/?/video/us/2010/08/19/am.int.ghosh.islamaphopic.cnn">
"Is America Islamaphobic?"
TIME's deputy international editor discusses a new cover story that delves
into that very question. (Click on the image to watch CNN video)
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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 07:14 AM
Response to Original message
1. kick and recommend!!


"The rhetoric against Muslim Americans -- namely, that they are a suspect community, or worse, enemies of the state; their religion is uncivilized and anti-American; they are deceitful; and they aim to destroy our culture and our constitution -- are replicas of attacks against other religious minorities in the past as well as current attacks against ethnic and racial minorities," the group says.

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/US/08/20/california.islamic.center.controversy/index.html?eref=mrss_igoogle_cnn#fbid=D5_6pl2XcAW&wom=false

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ck4829 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 07:24 AM
Response to Original message
2. K&R
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Turborama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 08:32 AM
Response to Original message
3. The latest edition of Time & the cover story (Links)
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COLGATE4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 08:34 AM
Response to Original message
4. Well, what would you expect
from all those LeftCoast homoloving lefty radical commie Libruls? (Hopefully, sarcasm avatar is not needed here)
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florida08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 08:51 AM
Response to Original message
5. what a mess
but I don't think this will change anything. A religious war will only fuel more anger. Many reports are negative about this. Remember all lies about Congressman Ellison supposedly taking the oath on the Quran? That sticks in the mind and people do not check the info they get over MSM. We tend to fear what we don't understand but especially what we don't accept. How hypocritical is the notion we accept the hatred of the Westboro church who attack and offend the families of fallen soldiers in the name of free speech. I wrote my senator about it and what I got back was he believes in the 1st Amendment. Can you imagine if muslims were doing the same what hell would break loose? Sometimes I think America is 2 years old instead of 200.

We have been told to believe islam wants to convert the whole world and will kill to do it. But in defense it was quite disturbing to see how angry muslims got over a cartoon.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/breaking-news/cartoonist-molly-norris-disavows-draw-mohammed-day/story-e6frf7jx-1225869413050

Religions are loaded with fear and intolerance which is really contradictory of their message and also the reason why they should be kept out of governments.


This report is about the iman
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Culture/Default.aspx?id=1128020
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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. a NYT article about Imam Feisal and his plan for the center written before the crazy hate campaign



Muslim Prayers and Renewal Near Ground Zero


By RALPH BLUMENTHAL and SHARAF MOWJOOD
Published: December 8, 2009


snip:

“ As a Sufi, Imam Feisal follows a path of Islam focused more on spiritual wisdom than on strict ritual, and as a bridge builder, he is sometimes focused more on cultivating relations with those outside his faith than within it.

snip:

Those who have worked with him say if anyone could pull off what many regard to be a delicate project, it would be Imam Feisal, whom they described as having built a career preaching tolerance and interfaith understanding.

“He subscribes to my credo: ‘Live and let live,’ ” said Rabbi Arthur Schneier, spiritual leader of Park East Synagogue on East 67th Street.

snip:

The mayor’s director of the Office of Immigrant Affairs, Fatima Shama, went further. “We as New York Muslims have as much of a commitment to rebuilding New York as anybody,” Ms. Shama said. Imam Feisal’s wife, Daisy Khan, serves on an advisory team for the National September 11 Memorial and Museum, and Lynn Rasic, a spokeswoman for the memorial, said, “The idea of a cultural center that strengthens ties between Muslims and people of all faiths and backgrounds is positive.”


snip:

“ Building so close is owning the tragedy. It’s a way of saying: ‘This is something done by people who call themselves Muslims. We want to be here to repair the breach, as the Bible says.’ ”

The F.B.I. said Imam Feisal had helped agents reach out to the Muslim population after Sept. 11. “We’ve had positive interactions with him in the past,” said an agency spokesman, Richard Kolk. Alice Hoagland of Las Gatos, Calif., whose son, Mark Bingham, was killed in the hijacked plane that crashed in Pennsylvania, said, “It’s quite a bold step buying a piece of land adjacent to ground zero,” but she said she considered plans for the site “a noble effort.”

snip:

Joy Levitt, executive director of the Jewish Community Center, said the group would be proud to be a model for Imam Feisal at ground zero. “For the J.C.C. to have partners in the Muslim community that share our vision of pluralism and tolerance would be great,” she said.

Mr. El-Gamal agreed. “What happened that day,” he said, “was not Islam.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/09/nyregion/09mosque.html?_r=1






link to the cordoba intiative:

http://www.cordobainitiative.org /

link to Imam Feisal Press Conference:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfIPO7CVflA


.
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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. The Proposed Community Center Project in Lower Manhattan FAQs
Edited on Fri Aug-20-10 09:08 AM by Douglas Carpenter
Frequently Asked Questions

link:

http://www.cordobainitiative.org/?q=content/frequently-asked-questions

The Proposed Community Center Project in Lower Manhattan
FAQs

Who is organizing this project? What is the relationship of the Cordoba Initiative to this project?

The Cordoba Initiative, of which Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf is founder and chairman, is a multi-faith non-profit organization whose aim is to improve relations between different communities, and in particular between the Muslim world and the United States of America.

The proposed community center in Lower Manhattan will serve as a platform for multi-faith dialogue. It will strive to promote inter-community peace, tolerance and understanding locally in New York City, nationally in America, and globally.


Daisy Khan is a board member of Cordoba Initiative and also the Executive Director of the American Society for Muslim Advancement (ASMA). ASMA is committed to helping Muslim women and youth to improving their lives within their communities through projects on contemporary issues.

Both Imam Feisal and Ms. Khan are strong advocates for multi-faith collaboration. They share a vision of a community center in which various religious leaders and civil society will work closely together to foster community cohesion and advance the shared goals of moderation, peace and understanding. Through programs offered by the Cordoba Initiative and ASMA, the community center will crystallize this shared vision of peace into bricks and mortar.

Why are you building a mosque at Ground zero?

The community center is not located at Ground Zero.

It will be a multi-floor community center open to all New Yorkers, much like a YMCA or Jewish Community Center (JCC) with a designated prayer space (mosque) in one area to serve the needs of the large existing community of American Muslims in the neighborhood.

The community center will provide a place where individuals, regardless of their culture or background, will find a place of learning, arts and culture, and, most importantly, a community center guided by the universal values of all religions in their truest form – peace, compassion, generosity, and respect for all.

Why did you choose this site so close to Ground Zero?

We were always close to the World Trade Center. Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf has been the Imam of a mosque twelve blocks from the Twin Towers for the last 27 years.

Who is funding the community center?

No funds for this project have been raised to date. A project of this scale will require very diverse fundraising sources, including individuals from all faiths and beliefs –who are committed to peace and understanding. We expect that our sources of funding will include individuals of different religions, charitable organizations, public funds, institutional and corporate sponsors.

You will need a lot of contributors. Who will review your donor list?

The New York Charities Bureau and the US Treasury Department will review the donor list to assure that all funding sources are vetted to their satisfaction and approved. In addition, our Trustees and Advisory Board will be comprised of a multi-faith group of distinguished individuals who will ensure that the community center stays true to its objectives of peace, tolerance and understanding between all.

How did you purchase the building?

SoHo Properties, a New York real estate development firm based in lower Manhattan, acquired the property a couple of years ago. Sharif El Gamal, owner of SoHo Properties, is a member of Imam Feisal’s lower Manhattan congregation that has been in the neighborhood for a number of years.

Why so close to Ground Zero?

We have been residents and neighbors who are deeply committed to the neighborhood for the last 27 years. American Muslims have been peacefully living, working and worshipping in this neighborhood and were also terribly affected by the horrific events of 9/11.

As Muslim New Yorkers and Americans we want to help and be part of rebuilding our neighborhood in lower Manhattan. It is important for all of us to show the world that Americans will not be frightened or deterred by the extremist forces of hatred.

Isn’t this insensitive given that the 9/11 attackers were Muslims?

The events of 9/11 were horrific. What happened that day was terrorism, and it shames us that it was cloaked in the guise of Islam. It was inhumane, un-Islamic and is indefensible regardless of one’s religious persuasion. Not only Americans but also all Muslims are threatened by the lies and actions being perpetrated by these self-serving extremists and their perverted view of Islam.

The community center will be a platform to amplify the voices of the overwhelming majority of Muslims whose love for America and commitment to peace gets drowned out by the actions of a few extremists. It will become a platform where the voices of those who resist religious extremism and terrorism can be amplified and celebrated.

But, why not build it a little bit farther away? Let’s say a mile away?

No one should be driven out of his or her own neighborhood – especially for religious reasons. It is unconstitutional and un-American. Our congregation has been peacefully worshipping in this area for almost three decades. Our neighbors have encouraged us to remain here and the City and the Community Board have encouraged our continued presence here. The community has backed up their support by approving every resolution and challenge in the community center’s favor.

What about the 9/11 families? Don’t you see their pain?

Like all New Yorkers and Americans we were too devastated by 9/11. We share and respect the incredible pain and loss suffered by the victims of 9/11. We fully recognize their legitimate concerns and sensitivity to the community center. It shames us that extremists who profess to be Muslim perpetrated murder on such a horrific scale for political and financial gain in the name of Islam.

We look forward to actively engaging with leaders of the victims of 9/11 to respond to their concerns and obtain their support for our efforts.

Will the extremists take over the Community Center once it’s built?

Extremism on both sides is the danger – it’s what we’re working against. A community center that celebrates diversity and multi-faith collaboration is antithetical to the extremists’ worldview. This center will be a blow to all extremists.

In addition, the multi-faith Trustees and Board of Advisors will also help assure that our good intentions are not hijacked by extremist elements who are against our vision of peace, tolerance and understanding.

Are you not building a project that will be one of conquest? Isn’t this a victory for the extremists?

The community center is opposed to religious extremists of all faiths. It demonstrates that Americans cannot be intimidated and will join together to promote moderation, peace and understanding when challenged.

The extremists will not find victory or comfort in a community center whose sole purpose is to bring peace through multi-faith collaboration and celebrate the diversity of views in our world.

This center is an important step towards building understanding and peace. Just as we strive to understand the faith and traditions of our neighbors, this center will invite others to learn about the true nature of Islam. A religion of peace, tolerance, and understanding.


So what will happen at this community center?

The community center will meet the needs of all New Yorkers with six programmatic areas:
1. Culture and Arts - 500-seat auditorium, exhibition)
2. Education - Lecture hall, conference rooms, library, classrooms,)
3. Social Cohesion,(cooking classes, senior citizens space, child care, banquet hall)
4. Religion + Healing - Muslim prayer space, Contemplation and reflection area, 9/11 victims memorial
5. Global Engagement - Mapping studies on trends in the Muslim world, resources on good governance and principles of liberal democracy, women’s empowerment issues, youth development, countering religious extremism.
6. Recreation - pool, gym, medical education and wellness programs

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Clearing up false charges made against Imam Feisal:

“On 60 Minutes, the Imam said that American Foreign policy is an accessory to terrorism”

The ‘60 Minutes’ piece was completely incorrect as the statement was edited out of context. In the full interview, Imam Feisal describes the mistake the CIA made in the 1980s by financing Osama Bin Laden and strengthening the Taliban. This view is widely shared within the US and the US Government today, and Imam Feisal underlines the importance of not supporting “friends of convenience” who may in the future become our enemies. This is common sense.

Imam Feisal is an American who takes his role as a citizen-ambassador very seriously. He is frequently requested by the US State Department to tour Muslim majority and western countries to speak about the merits of American ideals and Muslim integration into Western society. At the request of the FBI after 9/11, he provided cultural training to hundreds of FBI agents.

“Imam Feisal has not condemned Hamas”

Imam Feisal has always condemned terrorism (see his 1995 book “What’s Right With Islam is What’s Right with America” and his hundreds of speeches). Hamas is both a political movement and a terrorist organization. Hamas commits atrocious acts of terror. Imam Feisal has forcefully and consistently condemned all forms of terrorism, including those committed by Hamas, as un-Islamic. In his book, he even went so far as to include a copy of the Fatwa issued after 9/11 by the most respected clerics of Egypt defining the 9/11 attack as an un-Islamic act of terror and giving permission to Muslims in the U.S. armed forces to fight against those who committed this act of terror. Imam Feisal included this in his book to prove that terrorism must be fought even if Muslims have to fight fellow Muslims to stop it.

“Imam Feisal is a member of the Muslim Brotherhood because his book was translated into Arabic by a publisher with ties to the Brotherhood.”

Both charges are false. Imam Feisal has no connection whatsoever to the Muslim Brotherhood. The Arabic translation rights to his book were arranged by the Arabic book program at the U.S. Embassy in Cairo, United States of America.

“Imam Feisal is a member of the Perdana Global Peace Organization, which is a funder of the flotilla that attempted to deliver aid to residents of Gaza.”

Imam Feisal has never been a member of this group. Several years ago, Imam Feisal was invited to Malaysia, the most moderate Islamic country in the world, to participate in a Peace Conference sponsored by the Perdana Peace Group. He was one of the hundreds of speakers present. He has no political, advisory or business affiliation of any nature with the Perdana group. A photo of Imam Feisal was taken at the conference, and this has been used to “prove” his membership in the Perdana Global Peace Organization, but the allegation is false. Because of the controversy surrounding Perdana, we have requested the Perdana Group to remove the photo of him from their publicity.

“Imam Feisal wants to establish a ‘shariah state’ in America.”

Actually, quite the contrary. Imam Feisal believes that all Muslims must adhere to the laws of the land in which they reside, including in America. This is a basic tenet of Islam. He has repeatedly stated that America is already one of the most Shariah compliant countries in the world because of America’s adherence to our Bill of Rights and because it allows members of all religions, including Muslims, to practice their faith freely. In other words, Imam Feisal believes that Muslims practice Shariah when they fast, pray, give to charity and uphold the commandments of protecting life, liberty, dignity, the pursuit of happiness and the right to freedom of worship.

“Why isn’t Imam Feisal currently in New York? Isn’t he supporting this?”

Imam Feisal travels the world in his life-long endeavor to bring the message of moderation, peace and understanding to both Western and Islamic countries.

Currently, he is in Malaysia working on projects designed to counter radical Islamist ideology within the region and the world. As the leading moderate Muslim country in the world, Malaysia is strongly interested in developing such initiatives and has requested Imam Feisal's assistance in their formulation.

Following this, Imam Feisal has been requested by the US State Department to make an extended tour, sponsored by the US Government, of Islamic countries throughout the Middle East to further his moderate Islamic message of peace and understanding with scholars, religious leaders and political leaders in the region.

His absence should not be construed in any way as a diminution of his deep commitment and concern regarding the issues surrounding the community center.

It is unfortunate that some events related to the center transpired during his extended travels but he has full confidence in his staff and and partners, including the team at SoHo Properties, and Daisy Khan, Executive Director of ASMA and one of the founders of Park51 – to carry on in his absence.

link:

http://www.cordobainitiative.org/?q=content/frequently-asked-questions


.
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florida08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. oh I agree
but that's not what most are hearing. Cenk has already reported how this family has worked at repairing the relationship with muslims in the Bush and Obama administration. Thanks for posting..maybe it will help. Like one poster below already stated about the phobias in this country and easy it is to manipulate them. The link I gave was only one example. Can't imagine how many religious ones there are out there. Truth is the first casualty of a one-sided debate.
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florida08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. Have you seen this?
This is very dangerous..John Bolton is dangerous not to mention his cronies

http://sioaonline.com/?p=452
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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. that is some pretty crazy and dangerous stuff
what confounds my mind even more is that these people like John Bolton and Newt Gingrich are the strongest advocates for more wars in the Middle East. What on earth do they imagine will be the results of their domestic hate campaign worked up into an even wilder frenzy and combined with more wars in the Middle East? Even if one was a convinced military interventionist - common sense would dictate that they need allies in the Arab and Islamic world. How can they be so crazy to not imagine that the combination of working the country up into a racist and bigoted frenzy while bombing and invading more Middle Eastern countries will produced anything other than total disaster for America and the whole world. Are they so crazy that they don't know that?
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florida08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. yes, I'm afraid they are
zealots always have tunnel vision. That's what scares me the most. Americans are so easily confused thus easy to scare. All you have to do is cry nationalism in the midst of a debate that they don't know how they feel about and common sense is trampled on. That's how we got into Iraq. Americans love to rally around the flag..right or wrong I'm afraid..and once lathered up become a mob. The hawks know this and use it to their advantage.

I hope the media coverage will have good sense to not blanket this all day but they too love high ratings and
any setting will do nowadays. They need to remind the public that muslims died as well on that dreadful day.
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Turborama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #7
20. Thanks for all your input, Douglas
I've added you to my buddies list so I can keep up to date with your journal.
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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. thank you
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #6
16. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Turborama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. I for one am glad he posted it. I haven't read any of the things he's posted in this thread before
Maybe his motive is simply that he just wants to fight the smear campaign that's being pumped out, left, right and center (literally)?

To accuse him of working for him and being "here to do propaganda" is really unfair.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Turborama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Thanks for the heads up
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. I'd say he's tired of the bs about the Cordoba House and has found a way to quickly counter it, rath
rather like sig lines.
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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. no I certainly don't work for the guys or even know any of them> I'm just committed to fighting
Edited on Fri Aug-20-10 07:18 PM by Douglas Carpenter
bigotry and ignorance and exposing lies and smears. And this article cuts through the bullshit very quickly with facts instead of BS.

I will keep telling the truth as long as others keep spreading lies.

Having spent approximately half my life in the Middle East I do feel a personal obligation to oppose racism and bigotry directed against Middle Eastern people,

This is not just a matter of one Community Center with a mosque. There are campaigns against mosques all across America right now.

Right now there is a nationwide campaign of anti-Muslim hysteria being whooped up by right-wing politicians, the crazy wing of fundamentalist Christianity and the likes of Newsmax and Fox News. There is a grave danger of this hysteria becoming - if it has not already - completely mainstream discourse in American society.

This hysteria has dangerous ramifications, not only for the American-Muslim community but for the entirety of society and the direction it is going. The 20th Century has surely shown that hate campaigns are not controllable and can and do lead society down extremely self-destructive paths.

This hysteria has even more dangerous ramifications for American foreign policy.

There are right-wing religious crazies in America who now pretty much dominate the Republican Party and there are the neoconservatives who are bent on promoting a permanent American war in the Middle East and I believe they must be stopped or America and the whole world will experience a catastrophe beyond imagination. The religious crazies believe they must help facilitate the battle of Armageddon in order to usher in the second coming of Christ. This is not a small marginal group of kooks. This is a group who are to a large degree now calling the shots in the Republican Party while their allies the neoconservatives work out the details.

Opposing this hysteria and not allowing this hysteria to become mainstream discourse is one of the most important stands any concerned person can take - The consequences of this hysteria growing and becoming even more mainstream are just too dire.

.
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ihavenobias Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 09:41 AM
Response to Original message
8. # 9 n/t
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Chakab Donating Member (102 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 09:59 AM
Response to Original message
9. "Is America Islamaphobic?"
Are you kidding me? Why does the media continue to play dumb when it comes to issues of bigotry in this country? You'll see the most clear cut cases of racism/sexism/homophobia/religious intolerance, and these so-called journalists pretend as if they're honestly confused about the root of what's going. If people don't grow a backbone and seriously confront this type of backwards thinking, we're all in for a world of hurt.
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Turborama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. Here's the transcript of the full interview in that video, it's worth the read...
Edited on Fri Aug-20-10 02:33 PM by Turborama
CHETRY: Eleven and a half minutes past the hour now.

The uproar over the Islamic center and mosque near Ground Zero has taken over everything from the news cycle to political debate going on right now in this country.

And "TIME" magazine is the first news organization that's actually been allowed to film prayers going on inside of the site, of the Park 51 mosque. A look now at it. This was shot during evening prayers marking a holy month of Ramadan, which continues until early September, as part of "TIME's" investigation for its upcoming cover story, "Is America Islamophobic?"

The article is written by "TIME's" deputy international editor, Bobby Ghosh. And he joins us now.

And thank for being with us. Bobby, you've also spent a lot of time, as we know, in Baghdad. You were the bureau chief there for "TIME" magazine.

So, I want to ask you first about the news overnight. You know, the breaking news last night dramatically, just like we all, 7 1/2 years ago, watched the beginning of the shock-and-awe campaign live. Last night, live, we are watching the last of the combat troops rolling into Kuwait and sort of the gates closing on that.

As we look to that, and we look at what we've learned and how far we have come with the past 7 1/2 years in Iraq, what is your take on what we left behind?

BOBBY GHOSH, TIME MAGAZINE: Well, to start with, we are still -- we left behind 50,000 American soldiers who are not necessarily combat soldiers, but who are combat enabled -- which means if the situation in Iraq continues to deteriorate, as it has in recent months, some of those soldiers may find themselves once again in harm's way and once again having to go out and actually engage in combat operations. We hope that is not the case.

We've left behind a country that now has a form of democracy. It is very messy. Perhaps it was always going to be messy. It's certainly going to be unsettled and unstable for a very long time to come.

There's -- you will notice that there are not a lot of Iraqis sending us "thank you" cards as the American military leaves. It's a part of the world that is now in some ways more unstable than it was 10 years ago. The U.S. presence has contributed -- although not exclusively -- to that instability.

CHETRY: I want to ask you, though, about anything good -- I mean, anything good come of the seven years sacrificing trillions of dollars and thousands of lives?

GHOSH: Yes, of course. Iraqis are much freer now than they were under Saddam Hussein. Most Iraqis are grateful for Saddam Hussein being removed from their lives. As I said, there's some form of democracy -- Iraqis have more freedoms to express themselves, more freedom to elect their leaders, more freedom to travel, more freedom to leave. They have a free media.

All of these things are important gains. At some point in this country, they'll have to be a discussion about the costs that the United States paid. And in Iraq, there's also a discussion about the costs that country paid and the lives of ordinary Iraqis, civilians, who died, in achieving all these things.

CHETY: It's interest when you take a look at what people think about it. Has the U.S. achieved its goals in Iraq? This was asked earlier in the month, CNN/Opinion Research poll -- nearly 70 percent of people said no.

GHOSH: Yes, because it was -- because those goals when they were set by President Bush were unrealistic and very, very large. We were not just going into Iraq to remove a dictator. We were going to change the political landscape of the Middle East, and this one democracy would then lead to a number of democracies all over the Middle East and the whole world would change. That's a very unreasonable expectation, and, of course, I'm not surprised. People say we haven't --

CHETRY: We have downgraded those, quote, "goals," or, you know, over time, and then people still -- overwhelmingly are --- don't believe that we've reached them in Iraq. And as you said, I mean, this is something we'll have to see as support role continues for U.S. troops. The actual combat role is over.

I want to change topics, though, and talk about the cover story in "Time" magazine. Is America Islamophobic? And the subtext is what the anti-mosque uproar tells us about how the U.S. regards Muslims, do you believe that this -- debate, this highly charged emotional debate over the really renovation almost because of a mosque is already there --

GHOSH: Yes.

CHETRY: -- it typifies how people feel on larger scale about Muslims in America?

GHOSH: Well let me clarify. You don't have to be an Islamophobe to have reservations about this particular project. You don't have to be prejudice to have very genuine concerns about it. But what we have seen in the process of this debate and about mosques, not just here in New York but all over the country, is that there has been a vicious -- some very vicious, it's a very vicious hate speech has entered the mainstream of the discussion in this country. And that is -- we are seeing some Islamophobe views been expressed by people who we wouldn't have expected it from. When you have legitimate political figures comparing the religion of Islam to Nazism. That is something on a scale that we have never seen before.

CHETRY: I want to -- people are going to wonder what we are talking about.

GHOSH: Yes.

CHETRY: So I want to read what Newt Gingrich said. Newt Gingrich is against the mosque being built that close to ground zero and what he said in the Nazi comparison is quote. "Nazis don't have the right to put up a sign next the holocaust museum in Washington. There is no reason to accept a mosque next to the World Trade Center. Is that -- that's something, of course, received a lot of attention. Do you think that's the main sentiment, though, of people who oppose the mosque? Which the majority of people polled, New Yorkers, as well as others, do oppose it being built there.

GHOSH: That's not the only reason. There are lots of people who feel not unreasonably they emotionally attached to that particular space. There are people who are concerned genuinely for the feelings of the families of the victims at the World Trade Center. There are people that have -- as I said, perfectly legitimate reasons to have concerned. But what this debate has done is brought out from previously what was in the fringes into the mainstream along reasonable people, a lot of hate speech and a lot of very vicious hate speech that we haven't heard before.

CHETRY: And not just the mosque debate. The controversy over this one. But we have seen a bit of a change many say over the past few years. Any of it linked to the fact that we've seen more instances of either attempted or homegrown terror that we thought, I mean after 9/11 a lot of people said this is a problem the United States doesn't have, what Europe has, problem with radicalization within the borders. And we have the Times Square bomber and few other thwarted attempts or plots. Has that added to this fear and feeling that Islam in America perhaps is radical in some ways?

GHOSH: Absolutely. There is certainly alarm that has grown in concern and suspicion. But there are also people who are taking advantage of this for political reasons. Who are taking advantage of this concern, who are take advantage of the fact that a lot of Americans don't know very much about Islam. It is a very small religion in this country. Compared with some other places in the world. So many Americans and we have a poll that shows us we don't really know that much about it.

So - and now you have people, who for political reasons are taking advantage of the combination of fear and lack of knowledge and adding to this toxic language. And are spreading sometimes, knowing full well, spreading lies and misrepresentations about the faith. And are tarring and entire community, and entire religion with -- that they are all from -- all potentially terrorists. That your neighbor, who is an American citizen, and -- by all polling proud to be an American citizen, happens to be a Muslim, may potentially someone who is talking against us.

We have polling that shows this is attitude is now beginning to spread. We have nearly two-thirds of the people that the poll said they had a negative or not positive view about Islam. Lots of people say that they -- that American Muslims may not be patriotic. Nearly a quarter of the people said American - they thought American Muslims were not patriotic. Another quarter were not sure if they were patriotic. And this sort of doubt and suspicion just seems to be growing and because of these controversies over the mosques that said -- these are now coming to the mainstream.

CHETRY: Well it is a very thoughtful piece. And we appreciate your sharing some of your insights with us this morning.

Bobby Ghosh great to talk to you, as always, thank you.

GHOSH: Thanks for having me.

Edited to add the link: http://www.cnnstudentnews.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1008/19/ltm.03.html
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