Afghans protest US church's plans to burn Quran

[Turborama]

Source: AP

KABUL, Afghanistan — Hundreds of Afghans railed against the United States and called for President Barack Obama's death at a rally in the capital Monday to denounce an American church's plans to burn the Islamic holy book on Sept. 11.

The crowd in Kabul, numbering as many as 500, chanted "Long live Islam" and "Death to America" as they listened to fiery speeches from members of parliament, provincial council deputies, and Islamic clerics who criticized the U.S. and demanded the withdrawal of foreign troops from the country. Some threw rocks when a U.S. military convoy passed, but speakers shouted at them to stop and told police to arrest anyone who disobeyed.

=snip=

"We know this is not just the decision of a church. It is the decision of the president and the entire United States," said Abdul Shakoor, an 18-year-old high school student who said he joined the protest after hearing neighborhood gossip about the Quran burning.

The U.S. Embassy in Kabul issued a statement condemning Dove World Outreach Center's plans, saying Washington was "deeply concerned about deliberate attempts to offend members of religious or ethnic groups."

=snip=

Muslims consider the Quran to be the word of God and demand it, along with any printed material containing its verses or the name of Allah or the Prophet Muhammad, be treated with the utmost respect. Any intentional damage or show of disrespect to the Quran is considered deeply offensive.

Read more: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hvWEqwq3CrRvaQCmt21MfoYhjZJQD9I2DMC00

[greyl]

1. "joined the protest after hearing neighborhood gossip" Brilliant. nt

[uppityperson]

2. Around and around they go.

[sabrina 1]

60. Well, let's see. THEY are not occupying our country and killing

and torturing our citizens. THEY have been asking US to stop doing that for years. So if THEY see a report that some American is about to further insult them by burning their holy book, is would not be much of a surprise to THEM, because they have been burying the bodies of their citizens we have killed for so many years.

'Around and around THEY go'. No, they were minding their own business until WE decided to go invade their countries. And now we whine when they have a demonstration showing how they feel about what we have done to them.

Amazing how Americans don't seem to have a clue about what it would be like to be invaded, to see your loved ones blown to bits on a regular basis, to see your people humiliated and tortured and NOT to see any accountability for it, ever.

I am amazed there has not been more violence directed at the U.S.

We are so arrogant!

[bc3000]

18. Maybe their news isn't better than ours.

[Bozita]

19. I'll bet THEIR news doesn't include the top 10 grossing films for the weekend.

The US MSM gives us all we need to know ... or think about.

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[FirstTimeVoterAt37]

3. WE don't understand how our freedom of speech works

It's not surprising that those in other countries understand it even less.

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bozita]

5. So, their crazies anger our crazies who anger their crazies who anger ...

... our crazies who anger ...

[awoke_in_2003]

10. This could start a trend...

wouldn't it be great if every koran and bible were burned- then maybe people might pick up a real book and learn something useful, like science. One can dream.

[primavera]

16. Oh, if only!

Or maybe we could just send all of our crazies to meet all of their crazies in some desolate, lifeless place like Death Valley and they could just kill each other to their hearts' content.

[awoke_in_2003]

17. hell, and they would willingly go...

got to kill heathens in the name of god.

[No Elephants]

62. If the only way you can prevail is by burning books--any books--maybe you shouldn't prevail.

[backtomn]

13. Our crazies ?????................

..............those that might complain about an art exhibit with the Virgin Mary covered in feces.......and put a crucifix in a jar of urine. How many people died because of each of these problems??? ZERO.

How is Islam doing??? I hear that several people died when THEY THOUGHT that people had flushed a Koran down the toilet. Of course, it never happened.

Our "crazies",....indeed.

[Bozita]

15. Not those crazies. THESE crazies ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-abortion_violence

The majority of anti-abortion violence has been committed in the United States of America.


Murders

In the U.S., violence directed toward abortion providers has killed at least eight people, including four doctors, two clinic employees, a security guard, and a clinic escort.<5>

March 10, 1993: Dr. David Gunn of Pensacola, Florida was fatally shot during a protest. He had been the subject of wanted-style posters distributed by Operation Rescue in the summer of 1992. Michael F. Griffin was found guilty of Dr. Gunn's murder and was sentenced to life in prison.

August 21, 1993 Dr. George Patterson, was shot and killed in Mobile, Alabama, but it is uncertain whether his death was the direct result of his profession or rather a robbery.<6><7>

July 29, 1994: Dr. John Britton and James Barrett, a clinic escort, were both shot to death outside another facility in Pensacola. Rev. Paul Jennings Hill was charged with the killings. Hill received a death sentence and was executed on September 3, 2003.

December 30, 1994: Two receptionists, Shannon Lowney and Lee Ann Nichols, were killed in two clinic attacks in Brookline, Massachusetts. John Salvi, who prior to his arrest was distributing pamphlets from Human Life International,<8> was arrested and confessed to the killings. He died in prison and guards found his body under his bed with a plastic garbage bag tied around his head. Salvi had also confessed to a non-lethal attack in Norfolk, Virginia days before the Brookline killings.

January 29, 1998: Robert Sanderson, an off-duty police officer who worked as a security guard at an abortion clinic in Birmingham, Alabama, was killed when his workplace was bombed. Eric Robert Rudolph, who was also responsible for the 1996 Centennial Olympic Park bombing, was charged with the crime and received two life sentences as a result.

October 23, 1998: Dr. Barnett Slepian was shot to death at his home in Amherst, New York. His was the last in a series of similar shootings against providers in Canada and northern New York state which were all likely committed by James Kopp. Kopp was convicted of Dr. Slepian's murder after finally being apprehended in France in 2001.

May 31, 2009: Dr. George Tiller was shot and killed as he served as an usher at his church in Wichita, Kansas.<9>


Attempted murder, assault, and threats

According to statistics gathered by the National Abortion Federation (NAF), an organization of abortion providers, since 1977 in the United States and Canada, there have been 17 attempted murders, 383 death threats, 153 incidents of assault or battery, and 3 kidnappings committed against abortion providers.<10> Attempted murders in the U.S. included:<5><11><12>

August 19, 1993: Dr. George Tiller was shot outside of an abortion facility in Wichita, Kansas. Shelley Shannon was charged with the crime and received an 11-year prison sentence (20 years were later added for arson and acid attacks on clinics).

July 29, 1994: June Barret was shot in the same attack which claimed the lives of James Barrett, her husband, and Dr. John Britton.

December 30, 1994: Five individuals were wounded in the shootings which killed Shannon Lowney and Lee Ann Nichols.

October 28, 1997: Dr. David Gandell of Rochester, New York was injured by flying glass when a shot was fired through the window of his home.<13>

January 29, 1998: Emily Lyons, a nurse, was severely injured, and lost an eye, in the bombing which also killed Robert Sanderson.

May 21, 1998: Three people were injured when acid was poured at the entrances of five abortion clinics in Miami, Florida.<14>


Anthrax threats

The first hoax letters claiming to contain anthrax were mailed to U.S. clinics in October 1998, a few days after the Slepian shooting; since then, there have been 655 such bioterror threats made against abortion providers. None of the "anthrax" in these cases was real.<11><15>

November 2001: After the genuine 2001 anthrax attacks, Clayton Waagner mailed hoax letters containing a white powder to 554 clinics. On December 3, 2003, Waagner was convicted of 51 charges relating to the anthrax scare.


Arson, bombing, and property crime

According to NAF, since 1977 in the United States and Canada, property crimes committed against abortion providers have included 41 bombings, 173 arsons, 91 attempted bombings or arsons, 619 bomb threats, 1630 incidents of trespassing, 1264 incidents of vandalism, and 100 attacks with butyric acid ("stink bombs").<10> The first clinic arson occurred in Oregon in March 1976 and the first bombing occurred in February 1978 in Ohio.<16> More recent incidents have included:<5>

December 25, 1984: An abortion clinic and two physicians' offices in Pensacola, Florida were bombed in the early morning of Christmas Day by a quartet of young people (Matt Goldsby, Jimmy Simmons, Kathy Simmons, Kaye Wiggins) who later called the bombings "a gift to Jesus on his birthday."<17><18><19>

October 1999: Martin Uphoff set fire to a Planned Parenthood clinic in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, causing US$100 worth of damage. He was later sentenced to 60 months in prison.<20>

May 28, 2000: An arson at a clinic in Concord, New Hampshire on resulted in damage estimated at US$20,000. The case remains unsolved.<21>

September 30, 2000: A Catholic priest drove his car into the Northern Illinois Health Clinic after learning that the FDA had approved the drug RU-486. He pulled out an ax before being forced to the ground by the owner of the building who fired two warning shots from a shotgun.<22>

June 11, 2001: An unsolved bombing at a clinic in Tacoma, Washington destroyed a wall, resulting in US$6000 in damages.<20>

July 4, 2005: A clinic Palm Beach, Florida was the target of an arson. The case remains open.<20>

December 12, 2005: Patricia Hughes and Jeremy Dunahoe threw a Molotov cocktail at a clinic in Shreveport, Louisiana. The device missed the building and no damage was caused. In August 2006, Hughes was sentenced to six years in prison, and Dunahoe to one year. Hughes claimed the bomb was a “memorial lamp” for an abortion she had had there.<23>

September 13, 2006 David McMenemy of Rochester Hills, Michigan crashed his car into the Edgerton Women's Care Center in Davenport, Iowa. He then doused the lobby in gasoline and then started a fire. McMenemy committed these acts in the belief that the center was performing abortions, however Edgerton is not an abortion clinic.<24>

April 25, 2007: A package left at a women's health clinic in Austin, Texas contained an explosive device capable of inflicting serious injury or death. A bomb squad detonated the device after evacuating the building. Paul Ross Evans (who had a criminal record for armed robbery and theft) was found guilty of the crime.<25>

May 9, 2007: An unidentified person deliberately set fire to a Planned Parenthood clinic in Virginia Beach, Virginia.<26>

December 6, 2007: Chad Altman and Sergio Baca were arrested for the arson of Dr. Curtis Boyd's clinic in Albuquerque. Altman’s girlfriend had scheduled an appointment for an abortion at the clinic.<27>

January 22, 2009 Matthew L. Derosia, 32, who was reported to have had a history of mental illness <28> rammed a SUV into the front entrance of a Planned Parenthood clinic in St. Paul, Minnesota.<29>


more...

[superconnected]

38. Most of those don't have any death involved. It just isn't the same as the hanging and stoning of

girls and women throughout those same years only in Afghanistan. Really, you're not even beginning to compare.

What needs to be pointed out it that the Muslims here are peaceful, not a lie that the radical Christians here are worse or equal to the radical Muslims there. That doesn't hold water.

[superconnected]

57. Here - take a look at real stats

Todays news:

'Honor' Killing: The Crimewave that Shames the World

http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2010/09/07-1

"The murder of at least 20,000 women a year in the name of 'honor'."

"Last March, Munawar Gul shot and killed his 20-year-old sister, Saanga, in the North-West Frontier Province of Pakistan, along with the man he suspected was having "illicit relations" with her, Aslam Khan.

In August of 2008, five women were buried alive for "honor crimes" in Baluchistan by armed tribesmen; three of them - Hameeda, Raheema and Fauzia - were teenagers who, after being beaten and shot, were thrown still alive into a ditch where they were covered with stones and earth. When the two older women, aged 45 and 38, protested, they suffered the same fate. The three younger women had tried to choose their own husbands. In the Pakistani parliament, the MP Israrullah Zehri referred to the murders as part of a "centuries-old tradition" which he would "continue to defend". "

--------------------
It goes on and on though - just like your list only everyone in this list actually gets murdered.

[Turborama]

58. despite its identification by journalists as a largely Muslim practice, Christian and Hindu

A 10-month investigation by The Independent in Jordan, Pakistan, Egypt, Gaza and the West Bank has unearthed terrifying details of murder most foul. Men are also killed for "honour" and, despite its identification by journalists as a largely Muslim practice, Christian and Hindu communities have stooped to the same crimes. Indeed, the "honour" (or ird) of families, communities and tribes transcends religion and human mercy. But voluntary women's groups, human rights organisations, Amnesty International and news archives suggest that the slaughter of the innocent for "dishonouring" their families is increasing by the year.

http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2010/09/07-1


Original source: http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/the-crimewave-that-shames-the-world-2072201.html

[ronnie624]

29. But hundreds of thousands died

when U.S. Americans "THOUGHT" that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction.

There are plenty of "crazies" in the U.S., and they have killed many people in the world over the years. They kill for reasons other than religion, and they kill in much greater numbers. U.S. Americans just don't recognize them for what they are.

[superconnected]

32. I know people are attacking you, but I get it, and you're right.

[Turborama]

41. Which religion punished heretics by burning them at the stake?

Remember, there were long wars between Protestants and Catholics during the reformation.

It could be argued that Islam is at a similar stage of evolution as Christianity was then.

[sabrina 1]

61. You mean when Muslims were tortured by U.S. troops

and use their culture and religion, IN VIOLATION of the Geneva Conventions btw, not that you seem to care much about facts, as part of the torture.

And the only thing you take from that illegal, criminal act by the U.S. is that there were protests in Afghanistan. As if we, had we seen our citizens subjected to the same torture and persecution by the use of our culture and religion would not say, INVADE TWO COUNTRIES And kill over a million people.

Where did you hear that news that left out all the relevant information?

Our 'crazies' tortured and killed their innocent civilians. YES, 'our crazies' is putting it mildly.

This is truly depressing to see on DU. The willful ignorance and amnesia regarding the war crimes that sparked those protests. And do you know WHO was responsible for those deaths btw? Or because they are 'ragheads' do you just assume it was all their fault?

My memory of those protests is vastly different than yours, but then I don't get my news from Fox or the U.S. media.

[Quantess]

52. Stupid and crazy at opposite ends of the globe.

Humans really aren't as evolved as we give ourselves credit for.

[Taitertots]

6. They hate us because of our freedoms

Muslims and the West will never get along as long as they believe we must abide by their religious doctrine.

[Turborama]

22. Enemies of freedom is one of the slogans invented and promoted by the George W. Bush presidency

By President George W. Bush

September 11, 2001, from Barksdale AFB, Shreveport, LA.<1>: "Freedom itself was attacked this morning by a faceless coward. And freedom will be defended."

September 20, 2001: Address to a Joint Session of Congress and the American People:

"On September the 11th, enemies of freedom committed an act of war against our country."

"Tonight we are a country awakened to danger and called to defend freedom."

"freedom itself is under attack."

"Americans are asking, why do they hate us? They hate what we see right here in this chamber -- a democratically elected government.
They hate our freedoms -- our freedom of religion, our freedom of speech, our freedom to vote and assemble and disagree with each other."

"Freedom and fear are at war."

"Freedom and fear, justice and cruelty, have always been at war, and we know that God is not neutral between them."

September 21, 2001: While proclaiming "National POW/MIA Recognition Day": "Throughout our history, American patriots have risen to answer the call when the enemies of freedom have jeopardized our liberties."

More: http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Enemies_of_freedom

Top Ten Good News Stories from the Muslim World in 2009 that You Never Heard About
http://www.juancole.com/2010/01/top-ten-good-news-stories-from-muslim.html

[Taitertots]

23. Just because an idiot said it in a different context almost a decade ago...

Doesn't make it any less true today, in a totally different context.

I'll bet you could find a quote from Bush about how he brushes his teeth. Are you going to stop brushing your teeth because Bush does?

[Turborama]

25. You're repeating a Reichwing meme that has been successfully implanted into the American psyche

by an idiot and his junta for the past 9 years.

Have you seen "Why We Fight" yet? If not, here's a link to where you can watch it online: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=9219858826421983682#

[Bragi]

26. Quite right

There are factions within Islam that do hate our legal freedoms because they conflict with Sharia law, which they feel should govern everyone. Not all Muslims believe that, but many do. That's a fact that even my dislike of Bush can't disguise.

[Turborama]

27. The poster you are agreeing with was stereotyping toward Muslims:

"They hate us because of our freedoms. Muslims and the West will never get along as long as they believe we must abide by their religious doctrine."

You, at least, made a distinction instead of a broad-brush statement about 1.5 billion people: "There are factions within Islam that do hate our legal freedoms because they conflict with Sharia law, which they feel should govern everyone. Not all Muslims believe that, but many do."

There are factions within America that hate Muslims because they believe the contents of the Qu'ran conflict with their sacrosanct American Constitution, which they feel should govern everyone. Not all Americans believe that, but many do

[superconnected]

33. Gee, I believe the constitution is pretty dang good. What's your problem with it?

I'll take it over the Quran any day.

[Turborama]

37. I didn't say there's anything wrong with it. I'm just highlighting the similarities of arguments

from both sides.

Ever thought of the possibility that there are a lot of people who don't see it as an "either/or" thing and who believe the constitution and the Qu'ran are "pretty dang good".

[superconnected]

39. I take it they haven't read the Quran.

[Turborama]

44. That's your prejudicial take, which of course you're entitled to. n/t

[superconnected]

45. Actually no it's not. I don't even hold the Bible up to the constitution.

Telling me the Koran is on par with the US constitution is your religious prejudice. Scary.

[Turborama]

47. You prejudged that anyone who believes the constitution and the Qu'ran are

..."pretty dang good" can't have read the Qu'ran.

This is how it all started...

Me to Bragi:

The poster you are agreeing with was stereotyping toward Muslims:

"They hate us because of our freedoms. Muslims and the West will never get along as long as they believe we must abide by their religious doctrine."

You, at least, made a distinction instead of a broad-brush statement about 1.5 billion people: "There are factions within Islam that do hate our legal freedoms because they conflict with Sharia law, which they feel should govern everyone. Not all Muslims believe that, but many do."

There are factions within America that hate Muslims because they believe the contents of the Qu'ran conflict with their sacrosanct American Constitution, which they feel should govern everyone. Not all Americans believe that, but many do.


You jumping in with a poorly thought out hyperbolic response:

Gee, I believe the constitution is pretty dang good. What's your problem with it? I'll take it over the Quran any day.

My response in an attempt to clarify what I said for you:

I didn't say there's anything wrong with it. I'm just highlighting the similarities of arguments from both sides.

Ever thought of the possibility that there are a lot of people who don't see it as an "either/or" thing and who believe the constitution and the Qu'ran are "pretty dang good".

Here's your prejudiced reply:

I take it they haven't read the Quran.

My response pointing out the inherent prejudice:

That's your prejudicial take, which of course you're entitled to. n/t

Another of your disconnected replies:

Actually no it's not. I don't even hold the Bible up to the constitution. Telling me the Koran is on par with the US constitution is your religious prejudice. Scary.

What's scary is how disconnected you are from the reality of this conversation. Tell me, where have I said that I think the Qu'ran is on a par with the US constitution or that I hold any religious beliefs?

[superconnected]

48. I don't care about your "magical thinking"(religious) problem. Don't subject me to it.

[Turborama]

49. I'm not. I'm just stating the facts and proving how DISCONNECTED your thought processes are. n/t

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[No Elephants]

64. No, they hate us for our government's policies and actions, primarily vis a vis the Middle East.

Here's a sample: http://www.kent.ac.uk/english/radicaldistrust/projects/siege-of-beirut/


Bin Laden also spoke of it before and after 911.

Before: http://www.warriorsfortruth.com/osama-al-queda.html

After (a video released in October of 2004):

"Peace be upon he who follows the guidance: People of America this talk of mine is for you and concerns the ideal way to prevent another Manhattan, and deals with the war and its causes and results.

<...>

No, we fight because we are free men who don't sleep under oppression. We want to restore freedom to our nation, just as you lay waste to our nation. So shall we lay waste to yours.

<...>

I say to you, Allah knows that it had never occurred to us to strike the towers. But after it became unbearable and we witnessed the oppression and tyranny of the American/Israeli coalition against our people in Palestine and Lebanon, it came to my mind.

The events that affected my soul in a direct way started in 1982 when America permitted the Israelis to invade Lebanon and the American Sixth Fleet helped them in that. This bombardment began and many were killed and injured and others were terrorised and displaced.

I couldn't forget those moving scenes, blood and severed limbs, women and children sprawled everywhere. Houses destroyed along with their occupants and high rises demolished over their residents, rockets raining down on our home without mercy.

The situation was like a crocodile meeting a helpless child, powerless except for his screams. Does the crocodile understand a conversation that doesn't include a weapon? And the whole world saw and heard but it didn't respond.

In those difficult moments many hard-to-describe ideas bubbled in my soul, but in the end they produced an intense feeling of rejection of tyranny, and gave birth to a strong resolve to punish the oppressors.

And as I looked at those demolished towers in Lebanon, it entered my mind that we should punish the oppressor in kind and that we should destroy towers in America in order that they taste some of what we tasted and so that they be deterred from killing our women and children.

And that day, it was confirmed to me that oppression and the intentional killing of innocent women and children is a deliberate American policy. Destruction is freedom and democracy, while resistance is terrorism and intolerance.

This means the oppressing and embargoing to death of millions as Bush Sr did in Iraq in the greatest mass slaughter of children mankind has ever known, and it means the throwing of millions of pounds of bombs and explosives at millions of children - also in Iraq - as Bush Jr did, in order to remove an old agent and replace him with a new puppet to assist in the pilfering of Iraq's oil and other outrages.

So with these images and their like as their background, the events of September 11th came as a reply to those great wrongs, should a man be blamed for defending his sanctuary?

Is defending oneself and punishing the aggressor in kind, objectionable terrorism? If it is such, then it is unavoidable for us.

This is the message which I sought to communicate to you in word and deed, repeatedly, for years before September 11th.

<...>"






Needless to say, our bombings, invasion and occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan were not acceptable to him either, but I'll leave you to google for his statements on those, if it is not by now self-evident to you that he could care less about our freedoms.

You may or may not agree with his view of our policies, but I do believe him when he says our government policies are why he hates us. Bushco made up the "they hate us for our freedoms" meme.

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[davidinalameda]

8. why don't they also protest

their government getting back in to bed with the Taliban and the corruption in their government as well

[saigon68]

24. Not hardly--- The thugs andHoodlum puppets running that country

Are no different than the Bush Criminals

[Crowman1979]

9. People seem to forget how the christian taliban has been liable in killing our troops and civilians

all due to their high praise of this war on terror.

[4saken]

11. Ehh?? But expected...

They seem more concerned for the white pages of books they will never even see than an adulteress woman's life. Superstition has it's disgusting fingers in everything that runs on faulty logic.

Burning books is absurd and demonstrates weakness on the field of ideas, logic and reason. Christianity has no leg to stand on when arguing against separate assertions based on similarly unsubstantiated mythologies.

Pick up a Quran and learn a bit about it, so you can properly argue against their absurdities.

[McCamy Taylor]

12. Can we stop calling them a "US Church"? Separation of church and state.

[SteveM]

14. Burning books. I've heard that before. Somewhere. nt

[Psephos]

20. Saudi Arabia. It's state policy there to destroy Bibles upon discovery.

Apparently they do not fear the teeming mobs of Christians in the US raising torches and chanting "Death to Arabia."

I'm also remembering the Buddhist uprising across great swaths of Asia after the Taliban blew up the thousand-year-old giant Buddha statues.

Not. And not.

[Turborama]

28. Source please: "It's state policy there to destroy Bibles upon discovery" n/t

[superconnected]

40. Here's the first link that came up...

http://ahmedsalib.wordpress.com/2006/12/22/executed-for-taking-bibles-into-saudi-arabia/

[Turborama]

42. "Author Unknown" From a blog called: "Unpopular Arab Thoughts That All Arabs Have Thought"

Thanks but, no. It's not an authoritative source.

[superconnected]

43. Here's the next one confirming it

http://www.crosswalk.com/1331609/

[Turborama]

46. Rather than believe a writer for reichwing newsbusters and some "think tank"

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Saudi_Institute

http://www.google.com/search?q=Patrick+Goodenough&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-US&ie=utf8&oe=utf8


I tend to believe a 1st hand account from this DUer who's been there themselves, as described here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=214&topic_id=21292&mesg_id=21321

[Psephos]

55. My own eyes and ears.

A good source imo.

I spent 3 months in S.A. filming a documentary, some "in country" near Mt. Sinai, and in Riyadh.

Note that I alluded to their policy. Enforcement is another matter. They have (as many Muslim theocracies have) special religio-political police who are empowered to enforce theocratic dicta. Do they always enforce policy? No, unless the theocop is a true zealot, or if you make an especially egregious showing of what is forbidden. You learn pretty quickly where the gray area is, and avoid going past it. Enforcement varies by area, too, although even in Olaya District (the commercial center) and the DQ (Diplomatic Quarter), there are painted lines one does not stray past.

FWIW, do you know that churches, symbols, and practice of religions other than Islam are illegal in S.A.? Again, enforcement is another matter, but I do guarantee you won't find non-Islamic churches there.

[ronnie624]

30. It has been state policy in the U.S. for decades

to unilaterally bomb the hell out of other countries at will. No Arabian country has ever done that to the United States. If they had, I would be chanting "death to Arabia".

[SteveM]

56. Well, I was thinking of something more prosaic as in pre-WWII Germany. nt

[BeHereNow]

21. Hey Florida Freaks! Ever heard of "shooting fish in a barrel?

That is effectively the position you put our troops in
by your Evangelical action of insanity.
BHN

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ronnie624]

34. Thankfully,

the people of Asia don't have the ability to attack us with impunity, the way we have been doing them for decades. That would suck.

[superconnected]

35. Yes it would. However I think they do when they can - all those bombs killing our soldiers.

I don't quite get how those bombs are in self-defense but I also don't get where our soldiers have any right to be in those countries.

[totodeinhere]

53. With the growth of the Chinese military, that might soon change.

And remember that the last time a country attacked the United States it was an Asian country, Japan, that did it.

[totodeinhere]

51. Calling for President Barack Obama's death?

This just shows are dogmatic and extreme some of those people over there are. While I disagree with the book burning, isn't calling for the death of Obama an extreme and uncalled for overreaction?

We know this is not just the decision of a church. It is the decision of the president and the entire United States.

What kind of ignorant statement is that? President Obama did not make a decision to burn the Quran. A few religious nutcases made that decision and neither Obama nor the American people as a whole can be blamed for what a few misguided people do.

[Turborama]

54. This is one of the reasons why what they are doing is so dangerous. 'Chinese whispers'

AKA "neighborhood gossip" in a country where only a small percentage of the population have access to any form of outside media.

"We know this is not just the decision of a church. It is the decision of the president and the entire United States," said Abdul Shakoor, an 18-year-old high school student who said he joined the protest after hearing neighborhood gossip about the Quran burning.

[Bragi]

63. I agree with your point

The only way to refute the claim that Jones is secretly a government operative is by telling the world the truth -- that in America, freedom of speech trumps religious sensibilities, including those of Muslims. There is no right not to be offended. Period.

No-one wants to say that, though, certainly no-one in the administration. I saw a report on the President talking about Jones this morning that had not a word about what freedom of speech actually means.

I guess we are going to wait until the riots begin before trying to explain that. Me, I wish they'd start talking about that now.

[Old Troop]

59. Hmm. Did anyone ever hear of this "church" before they made their

threat?