Yoo: I Said Torture Was Legal, But It Doesn't Mean They Should've Done Itl

[kpete]

Source: Talking Points Memo

Former Justice Department lawyer and "torture memo" author John Yoo used a speeding metaphor to explain that just because he gave George W. Bush the legal justification for the "unpopular" decision to waterboard Khalid Sheikh Muhammed didn't mean Bush had to go through with it.

"Just because a law says you can drive 65 miles per hour doesn't mean you have to drive 65 miles per hour," Yoo said. "There's still a lot of discretion and choice that the leaders of our government had to make."

"I know part of the job from being the lawyer is defending sometimes unpopular decisions that your clients make. I'm willing to do that part of the job. But I also think that there's no escaping responsibility if people who make the policy decision," Yoo said in an interview on CNN on Friday.

"And I'm prepared and confident in saying that I think my legal judgment then was right under the circumstances. But that doesn't mean that you had to -- that President Bush had to choose the policy that they did either," Yoo said.

Read more: http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/11/yoo_i_said_torture_was_legal_but_it_doesnt_mean_they_shouldve_done_it_video.php?ref=fpb

[avaistheone1]

1. Oh for chrissakes

:grr: :grr: :grr:

Only Yoo or Dick Cheney would say something as morally banrupt as that.

Nice one John. You suck. :grr: :grr: :grr:

[saigon68]

41. "Bring Em On" shouted the AWOL CHIMPANZEE

[hayu_lol]

2. Thanks KPete...this stuff is too real to be fiction...

Yoo was just 'legally' covering his butt for the record. You can be certain that at the time this came up, he never said anything like this.

[Chiyo-chichi]

3. Fuck Yoo! nt

[Blue Owl]

6. and fuck him too

(Bu$h, that is)

[Roland99]

8. My sentiments exactly.

[krispos42]

4. And why, do you think, they wanted to know if it was legal?

And why, do you think, they picked you to determine it was legal?



If you can't figure out the answer to those two questions, you've answered the 2nd one.

[thunder rising]

5. Another Bushite that can't leave the country. The rest of the world isn't looking ahead like we are

[SusanaMontana41]

48. Yep. Putting these war criminals on trial is our job, but someone else will have to do it.

Yoo must be feeling something hot breathing down his neck. And that makes me smile.

[MilesColtrane]

7. Yoo fear history's impending judgement?

Yoo are putting up a "quaint" defense to try and rehabilitate yourself.

Well fuck Yoo!

Maybe Yoo can get a job mopping out the toilets at the Bush Library.

[Poll_Blind]

9. The rats are getting nervous. I'm sure all of you saw Bush talking about how...

...the lawyers said it was legal and he wasn't a lawyer and they were, blah blah blah.

This is Yoo firing back.

I hope they both get to tell it to the judge.

PB

[Michigan-Arizona]

10. That's what I was wondering too n/t

[Supersedeas]

30. do you mean, Appointed for Life, Federal Judge Bybee

[calimary]

61. Indeed. I hope they both get to tell it to the judge.

At a war crimes tribunal.

[pattmarty]

11. dupe.

[pattmarty]

12. This fucking guy teaches at a college?

[No Elephants]

50. A prof at one and a visting prof at another. Not sure, but both may be law schools in the bargain.

[Doctor_J]

13. Cuff him and hand him to the world court

if he and a dozen other Bushies go for the Big Swing on TV, attitudes about crime will change.

[smiley]

14. sounds to me...

like the criminals from the former administration are trying to distance themselves.

[on point]

15. Guilty of war crimes as proscribed in Nuremberg Treaty

The Nirenberg treaty has special clauses for the corruption of the legal process to avoid this type of fig leaf. It is why the Nazi judiciary was tried and convicted after WWII. Being a lawyer doesn't get one off from having to follow the law.

[MadMaddie]

16. I had to reread the text

Is he kidding? Surely he can't be serious?

Notice how they are all trying to walk away from any responsibility? Especially since they were so proud of it at the time.

[Supersedeas]

62. Exactly: W says he was relying on OLC guidance, Yoo says OLC was merely giving suggestions

See neither Bush nor Yoo can be blamed.

[goforit]

17. Ouch!!!!...... Off to the Haige!!!

[Hubert Flottz]

18. Yoo Hoo...

U're guilty too...U Wascal Yoo

[Frank Booth]

19. Well, he's right.

He's effectively saying Bush was incapable of determining whether something was morally, ethically, and legally justified irrespective of a legal memo that was written by a subordinate and contained qualifications. Or that Bush was capable of making the determination, but did the morally and ethically bankrupt thing anyway. Either way, it sounds correct to me.

[ezmerelda39]

21. I agree

that the final decision went to the Big Oval Office, on in to the Big Desk and then to the little man sitting behind the Big Desk...BUT, the little man should have enough grey matter upstairs to realize that perhaps maybe, just maybe, as President he should have checked, just to make sure, with the Bigger Guy down the hall who was running the show if it might not be considered a WAR CRIME. OH, Yeah, that would have called for reason, a commodity devoid during the Bush Bash.

[ezmerelda39]

20. This defies comprehension,

and Yoo defies description, there are not enough superlatives in the English language to describe this pile of manure. And to think most of these yahoos from the Bush Bash are teaching young impressionable students about the ways of the world. If the rule of law does not fit your agenda, just change the law, if change doesn't work just make up new laws to fit your agenda. I would like to know exactly where Mr. Yoo found anything at all to say water boarding was legal, was constitutionally okay and Morally justifiable.

[Solly Mack]

22. Seriously? Seriously? What a fucking cowardly little tool.

[struggle4progress]

23. Another whining candy-ass consigliere

[daleo]

24. When you point at a Bush, four fingers point back at Yoo. n/t

[No Elephants]

53. Nicely done!

[The abyss]

25. Preparing his "Nuremberg" testimony

How cute!

Hang him from a lamppost - along with the rest of 'em.

[Festivito]

26. But, if I was wrong, YOU MIGHT NEVER SEE TEXAS AGAIN.

So, did W attempt a blanket presidential pardon for himself, thus, under the, ahem, circumstances, was able to do as he would wish?

Hmm. I think he needs a visit to 12 people who can decide if he is guilty despite his own pardonability.

[Senator]

27. K&+R

[MurrayDelph]

28. "It's not my fault!"

Just because I gave you the gun for your,
loaded the gun for you,
took it off safety for you,
and put it in your hand,

That doesn't mean I hold any responsibility for your using it!

[No Elephants]

51. It's even worse than that. Torture had begun before Yoo gave his opinion.

So, it was more like giving a mass murderer an ostensibly exonerating legal opinion AFTER the first few killings, knowing he or she had a queue of future victims.

Having said that, I must try to be "fair and balanced." In reality, I don't know when Yoo learned that torture had gone on before he gave his opinion. I'm only guessing he knew from the jump bc he sure knows it know and he is not now even claiming he was in the dark when he rendered his opinion.

[Uncle Joe]

29. The law said you can't torture so Yoo's speeding analogy doesn't apply.

Yoo and those other enabling attorneys in the Bush Maladministration told the pResident that it was all just a game of "Death Race 2000," and running over people just ran up the score, the important thing was winning the race.

Yoo and his ilk just told Bush what he wanted to hear, not what he needed to hear, those attorneys were making law, not defending it.

This doesn't in anyway detract from where the buck actually stops, but the buck can't stop nor responsibility for these heinous war crimes be held so long as Bush and Cheney are allowed to hide behind their attorney's illegal fig leaf.

Thanks for the thread, kpete.

[harun]

31. Maybe he is feeling the heat of all the protests against him. I say, turn the heat up.

[Stuart G]

37. Fire this asshole, and waterboard him....nt

[La Lioness Priyanka]

32. Diffusion of responsibility.

[bemildred]

33. LOL.

Feeling the heat is he?

[lovuian]

34. PHD's from Berkley Harvard Columbia are not always right

In fact many academics are corrupt like the local thief robbing the bank

Just because a Law Professor at Berkley says torture is legal ....doesn't mean that it is

Just because Harvard PHD of Economics says that Deregulation is the way to go
doesn't mean he isn't corrupt and wanting to set up the American People for bankruptcy


We are seeing and increase in credibility of the great institutions of our nation

CLEAN UP YOUR HOUSES ...Colleges

Berkley be proud

Yoo looks PATHETIC here

[No Elephants]

55. Gonzo was graduated from Harvard Law. Need anyone say more?

[Amonester]

35. yoo R another despicable co-conspirator in committed war cRimes

Conscientious Judges await yoo case.

[24601]

36. So much for the 1st Amendment when DUers want to criminalize

an individual expressing his or her opinion. What about any official who had the opinion that there was insufficient probable cause for searching Zacarias Moussaoui's computer? What if a court disagreed and the information could have prevented 9-11 and the 9-11 Commission suggested? Shall we find that individual guilty of murder by legal malpractice?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zacarias_Moussaoui

If you go down this slope and it will be used in ways you can't even imagine. Outlaw opinions and you will find yours leading you to the gallows.

[harun]

38. B*sh hand picked lawyers who he knew would give him opinions he agreed with.

This was to gain cover in the eventuality they would ever be tried in a court of law. B*sh would say "I only did this because the lawyers said it was legal" and the lawyers would say "we only said it was legal we didn't do anything wrong".

There was an injustice and DU'rs want justice.

[24601]

39. Total BS, this wasn't even close to being an appointment that

garnered presidential attention. I'd wager Bush had never heard of Yoo before he wrote the DoJ position on interrogations. Can you point to any evidence he did? I doubt he could pick him out in a lineup today.

Presidents pay attention to EL-1 positions and sometimes a high-profile EL-II. Departmental EL-III and Schedule C underlings may be officially "appointed" by Presidents, but that's a formality as the Department Chiefs (Cabinet Officers) run those through the system.

It's still ridiculous to criminalize an opinion. For example, who advised Bill Clinton that he could bomb Belgrade? Who advised President Obama that ongoing UAV kinetic strikes are OK. Shall we just round everyone up, start the kangaroo courts and begin building the gallows?

[harun]

40. Stop calling it "an opinion" like it is chit chat over what kind of donuts to buy.

Yoo was a co-conspirator to a war crime.

[24601]

42. That's YOUR opinion - and this is still the USA - so you are free to

hold it and be wrong or right. Yet you would deny that to others in a country that holds no one guilty unless proven in court. If this were a war crime, President Obama and AG Holder would have charged him. The difference is that they understand the law.

[No Elephants]

52. Law had nothing to do with it. Obama said he wanted to "look forward," not that Bushco was innocent.

Obama is a politician. Every pol remembers how impeaching Clinton raised his popularity (and also lowered the popularity of those most resposible for impeaching him. Also, prosecuting Bushco may have backfired on those members of Congress who knew what was was going on, including Democrats.



Food for thought: In every case that has ever gone to the SCOTUS, lawyers have taken opposite positions,, briefing relevant law for the Justices. In almost every one of those cases, the lawyers involved have been among the very best in the nation. Then, some of the nation's very brightest law school graduates comb over those briefs for the Justices. And then, very learned Justices study the briefs, hear oral arguments and ask questions of the lawyers. Meanwhile, they confer with each other and with their clerks, always seeking common ground, if any can be found. Yet, we have very few unanimous opinions nowadays. And 5-4 opinions are very often straight down political party lines.


IOW, knowledge of the law is, by far, not the only consideration in deciding whether or not to prosecute a President.

[No Elephants]

56. You don't prove anything is bs by pulling suppositions from your own ear.

For instance, Bybee asked Gonzo for a federal judgeship. Gonzo responded something like, "Nothing is available for you now. Why don't you come work for the government for a while, then we'll see if something opens up."

Bybee did, then got asked for his opinion. He gave one that suited Bushco's purposes. He is now a judge for life on the Circuit Court of Appeals. Coincidence? Maybe. Suspicious? Definitely.


Could Dummya pick Bybee out of a line up? I have no idea, but why is that straw man a test of anything relevant? Did it matter if Nixon could ID Liddy?

Could Gonzo pick Bybee out of a line up? You betcha. Did Bush trust Gonzo implicitly? Seems so.

[jamiefoxer]

44. because his "opinion" matters

It's a free speech opinion to think blacks are niggers. But if President Bush had uttered that, there would be MAJOR policy implications for the country. To have a President who thought black people were niggers? That affects people.

This guy was in a position to influence the President and his speech influenced the president and the lives of those tortured under our policy.

Maybe he's not legally responsible (I argue he is), but he's morally responsible. And he'll be judged...here...or in the next life.

[EFerrari]

46. Conspiracy to torture. He belongs behind bars. n/r

[No Elephants]

54. A lawyer giving a client a professional opinion is under a much higher standard than a lay person

exressing an opinion--and has a much lower degree of First Amendment protection. Giving a professional opinion that is wrong, as a result of intent or negligence is grounds for disbarment proceedings, malpractice lawsuits or worse--and the First Amendment would not be a defense.


And no one is seeking to outlaw opinions, lay or professional.

[Doctor_J]

58. What if Yoo "opined" that genocide is legal?

:shrug: Or that murdering Paul Wellstone was necessary to prevent the country from becoming socialist?

[jamiefoxer]

43. you knew what it would be used for, Mr. Yoo

You aided and abetted the use of torture. And your name will go down in the same company as those in Nuremberg or in other cases of torture.

Congrats on your entering the history books.

[EFerrari]

45. Swine.

[yurbud]

47. something is making him nervous.

[Rex]

49. And here they sit in front of the world to see and still act like they

are innocent of war crimes...maybe one day people in charge will try to write this wrong, probably all posthumously to keep people out of jail. Still, history will not be kind to GWB and his torture/war machine.

[No Elephants]

57. Yoo covered Bushco's very soiled ass with a trumped up legal opinion and Yoo knew it.

[panzerfaust]

59. Weasel

[defendandprotect]

60. How easy it is to buy someone to perform criminal deeds -- even a lawyer ...!!!

As they say --

"When you educate a fool all you get is an educated fool" --

Buying the legal progression: Nuremberg Laws/Judges --

Guess Yoo never heard of any of that?