Texas lawmakers approve bills requiring ultrasound before abortion

[47of74]

Source: CNN

(CNN) -- Abortion rights advocates plan to rally in Texas Tuesday after state lawmakers approved controversial legislaton that requires mothers seeking an abortion to undergo an ultrasound examination and listen to a description of what it shows.

The state house approved the anti-abortion measure in a 107-42 vote Monday. And state senators backed a similar proposal last month. After a conference committee hashes out the details, Texas Gov. Rick Perry will have the final say.

"This is a defining moment in reproductive rights, not just in Texas, but across the nation," Planned Parenthood of the Texas Capital Region said in a statement discussing its rally and lobbying day scheduled for Tuesday.

Read more: http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/03/08/texas.sonogram/index.html

[KansDem]

1. And who pays for this?

Isn't this an "unfunded mandate" imposed on Americans that the Repubs have denounced since the Reagan years?

Hypocrites...

[no_hypocrisy]

2. Won't be an unfunded mandate. The "patient" will be compelled to pay for the "test"

as well as her procedure. One more burden to "discourage" abortion.

[KansDem]

4. I was basing my interpretation of "unfunded mandate" on this....

In United States law and politics, unfunded mandates are regulations or conditions for receiving grants that impose costs on state or local governments or private entities for which they are not reimbursed by the federal government.

Any one of many federal legislations such as the Clean Air Act, and the Clean Water Act that require programs to be sponsored by the governments of the states, without providing any funds for those programs.

The provisions in the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act that require nearly all American emergency rooms to accept and stabilize any patient regardless of the patient's ability to pay, but do not provide adequate reimbursement for indigent patients.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unfunded_mandate

I assume a person is a "private entity," therefore if the Federal Government refuses to pay for these sonograms, then it is an "unfunded mandate" assuming the good Repubs of Texas will also decline to pay for the exam.

[no_hypocrisy]

5. Here's where I differ: The sonogram will be considered as part of the abortion procedure

if that's the option taken. It might become an "unfunded mandate" if the option is to continue the pregnancy. The State will not subsidize abortion but will provide Medicaid funds (for now) for prenatal health.

[still_one]

3. Also required in cases of rape and incest. I am sick an tired of the right wing control of our

country. The repukes used to pride themselves as staying out of peoples private lives. They have now demonstrated the monsters they really are:

"Texas Republicans look to mandate invasive sonogram procedure for all abortions"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/03/08/texas-republicans-look-to-mandate-invasive-sonogram-procedure-for-all-abortions/

How can any person who believes in basic human rights support the republican party is beyond me

[luvspeas]

6. Sounds abusive, expensive and degrading...

Since most abortions take place before 12 weeks, when the fetus is little more than a small cluster of nearly undetectable cells, the vast majority of women who request the procedure will instead be required by the state to undergo an invasive "transvaginal sonogram."

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/03/08/texas-republicans-look-to-mandate-invasive-sonogram-procedure-for-all-abortions/

[efhmc]

7. How in the world is this legal????

Where is there a precedent for this? Who is going to be legally responsible if not done? As usual, I see little or no interest in this civil liberty issue here on DU because it involves WOMEN!

[forty6]

11. Little or no interest? Huh? Well, for a thread that

has been up for all of 45 minutes, I think it's getting interest, as well it should.

Don't know where any accusation is coming from.

If Texas passes this, of course, it will be challenged in court by the ACLU. But for any state legislature to require an unnecessary medical procedure for all prospective candidates for abortion,that's pretty clearly a civil liberties issue BOTH WOMEN AND MEN should be concerned about.

What's next ? Forced vasectomies for potential fathers? That sounds equally stupid to me, a guy!!!

[efhmc]

16. The past 10 years here probaby is what I base my accusation on.

However, I was a little fast on the draw and I appreciate your post and your interest.

[forty6]

54. No problem. I agree, sometimes people here are slow to pick up upon

further degradations of women by our politicians.

But THESE DAYS, after the last Congressional election,and with Rachel Maddow to help us guys along, we are getting the points, loud and clear!!!

[efhmc]

59. Thanks for being you and thanks for speaking out.

[JJW]

8. Freedom Texas Style

Forced medical procedures.... and that spells MANDATE

[efhmc]

9. You can label it "Texas" style but all of these reproductive rights

issues have a strong potential to be upheld by the present extreme right wing Supreme Court.

[forty6]

12. I wouldn't go THAT far...lower courts, perhaps, state courts, perhaps...but

requiring women to undergo a non-medically necessary procedure smacks of clear Nazi tactics. I doubt the nine supremes are THAT right wing.

[efhmc]

20. I am going to bet you do not live in Texas. Will probably be lauded as

a wonderfully ground breaking decision and be sped through the courts by repug judges.

[forty6]

53. I didn't live in Nazi Germany either, but I know when an invasive

medical procedure is attempted due to political aims.

ANY proposed restriction on US Constitutionally protected personal freedoms doesn't go to Texas courts, it goes to the federal ones.

[efhmc]

67. As do I. Would you like to make a suggestion as to how we

liberal, feminists can fight the overwhelming amount of money the right wing has here to scare and coerce the public 24/7 in all media so that the truth never has a chance to be heard, much less flourish? By saying you don't live here, I am saying you have no idea what it is to dedicate yourself to years of fighting to elect decent people to office and to get nowhere; to actually go backwards. And since we have no liberal voice anywhere and no hope of electing the same, we are ignored by the national Dems. Why don't you start a national campaign to help us out? You can join with all the other Texas bashers here to help effect a change.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

10. Yep. Texas Republicans want to stick a probe in a rape or incest victims vagina

Then force them to listen to and view the product of their assault.

That's just how Republican's roll down here in Texas.

[forty6]

13. I don't think that's how an ultrasound is done. But I'm no doctor.

I've seen it on TV.

[Tess49]

17. Transvaginal ultrasounds are done for first trimester pregnancies.

[luvspeas]

18. try reading the links...

a fetus under 12 weeks, which is when most abortions are performed, is too small to be seen or heard by the more common type of ultrasound and must be performed transvaginally.

[forty6]

52. What a great idea! n/t

[Lone_Star_Dem]

65. Excuse me?

How, exactly, is this a great idea?

[efhmc]

69. I think he/she means one should read the links?

[Lone_Star_Dem]

71. Ah, I see.

That would make the reply make a bit more sense!

Thank you. :)

[efhmc]

75. Sure. At least that is my interpretation.

[hamsterjill]

40. That's right!

And it's totally disgusting. I'd like to stick a probe somewhere that Rick Perry might not like it!

I never thought I would see my right to control my body taken away from me in my lifetime. But I fully expect it to happen soon.

[bemildred]

14. Another "unfunded mandate".

This will only enrich the providers of sonograms.

[luvspeas]

15. not trying to be gross here, but...

Imagine yourself going in for an abortion and someone hooks you up to this machine and starts to tell you about the heartbeat of your baby. I would run out of there screaming.

http://www.cancer.umn.edu/cancerinfo/NCI/glossary/CDR46633.html

[efhmc]

22. And that, of course, is the idea. Saw massive amounts of

heart beating tissue when studying at Baylor (a rw Baptist hospital)back in the days before RoeVWade and guess what they were all labeled D&C's. I finally figured out that that was the term in those days for most legal abortions done for those with the money and connection to get them.

[leftynyc]

35. They'd be prying my ipod

from my cold dead hands. They can force me to lay there but they can't force me to look at or hear anything. If I were a woman in TX, I'd seriously be looking into moving to a more woman-friendly state. TX has declared war on their women.

[MsPithy]

19. IT'S THE VAGINAL TRANSDUCER, STUPID!

I have had a vaginal ultrasound, for a non pregnancy reason. In order to see something small (like a 12 week fetus) in the uterus, they push the vaginal transducer in the vagina as far as it will go. Then they push it in farther and then farther. If you think it is OK for this kind of scan to be performed on a woman who has been raped, you are one sick fuck! Frankly, if you think forcing any woman to have a vaginal ultrasound as PUNISHMENT for wanting a legal medical procedure, well, words are failing me.....

Rick Perry and all Republicans are Medieval barbarians.

[onehandle]

21. Women are second class citizens to the Republican Party.

Unless they want to stay that way, they need to get to the polls next November.

[efhmc]

23. Not so sure they aren't many other groups bedsides repugs where

this applies, many religions and other organizations.

[47of74]

27. Second class? More like 10,000th class.

[Tess49]

24. A similar law was passed in Okla last year. It was immediately

court challenged.

[efhmc]

26. Where is it in the court sytem now? Has it been thrown out or

simply challenged?

[Tess49]

31. I'm not sure. I don't think it has been thrown out yet.

The problem with initiating these types of laws is that ultrasound professionals (I'm one) can refuse to do these studies as dictated. I wrote the author of the Okla bill and told her I resented the fact that she thought it was Okay to hijack my education and expertise. Many techs I've spoken with say that torturing women is not in their job description. And that they will not do it.

[efhmc]

39. Then it could still become a valid law.

[Tess49]

43. Yes, it could. n/t

[Guilded Lilly]

25. Since Republicans continue to think that women are stupid

I think we should see that a bill be passed that before any man has sex with any woman, he must sign a legally binding paper saying he will assume all responsibility for any ensuing pregnancy from said coupling. No signed paper? No sex.

Cause, ya know, women are so stupid when it comes to their own bodies, they can't be trusted with the responsibilities.

[efhmc]

28. I have been saying a variation of this for 20 years+.

But my law would also require a deposit of $100k put in escrow for the unborn child. If no pregnancy comes from the coupling, then that amount can stay on deposit for the duration of the relationship. We both know that this amount would not ever cover the cost of caring for a child but it would put some advance legal responsibility on the male.

[tomm2thumbs]

29. maybe they should put that ultrasound next to the hollow heads of Texas legislators FIRST...

I hear you don't even have to pay if nothing shows up

[bongbong]

30. repig values

Why do repigs love big government control over people, but claim just the opposite?

.........

Sorry, just a rhetorical question. They always lie, 24x7.

[KamaAina]

32. Where's Molly when you really need her?

:(

[leftynyc]

33. Just sent this to my nephew

who is a freshman at UT-Austin with a note saying "now you know why my mantra is condoms, condoms, condoms" - especially since he insists on schooling in a blood red state. The women in TX should be in the streets.

[efhmc]

42. To be run down by bubbas in pickup trucks.

[leftynyc]

47. Seriously?

You don't think there are at least some men in Texas that wouldn't support their mothers, wives, sisters, daugthers standing up for themselves? That would make me very depressed.

[efhmc]

56. Of course there are. In my family I can count several.

But the liberals are few and ineffectual. We try and try but never seem to get ahead

[leftynyc]

63. I've been reading that

the demographics in Texas is what will shift the state left. I know that's small comfort for right now but keep fighting the good fight. Red states need voices from the left.

[efhmc]

70. Thank you for the kind words. Hosting Dem Women

tonight at my house and this will be subject for discussion. We are still here and will be fighting on.

[leftynyc]

74. With nephew schooling there

I've been keeping a closer eye on Texas than I normally would. Austin seems like it belongs in a different state - or maybe the rest of Texas belongs in Alabama or Mississippi. I'm glad there are voices like yours in the mix. Hope your meeting went well.

[Justyce]

48. Do you have any idea how many Dems there are in

Texas? I live in a blue county in Texas. I'm sorry, but I get so tired of these comments.

[efhmc]

58. What comments? I am a fifth generation Texan and have watched as

our state gets further behind in all areas but pollution. You are a lucky person but I doubt you live in a truly blue county. Even in Travis county the right wing is making inlets. My sil was a precinct chair there and with reredistricing, the Dems lost in several areas where they had the best people, simply because people voted straight repug and reredistrcing gave them the numbers to make this happen. I am also a precinct chair and in my county the last election was Dems 25% and repugs 75%. The officials here have been blackmailed by the mini rove repug chair into changing party so that we now have only one Dem in office. In Burnet county and many of the surrounding counties, the same. My own cousin is a judge in Denton county. His comment to me was "I couldn't get elected as a Dem." His ancestors would have died again if they knew what party he belong to now.

[Justyce]

64. Here's my county....

Per Wikipedia: "Jefferson County is one of the more Democratic counties in Texas. It has not supported a Republican for president since 1972."

[efhmc]

66. How I envy you!!!

[Democat]

34. Smaller government, except in your bedroom and womb!

More nanny state from the right wing.

[Pacifist Patriot]

36. Obscene, abusive, unconstitutional....statutory rape.

Having had a few transvaginal ultrasounds with my second pregnancy, I am not being flippant with my word choice at all.

[Moonwalk]

37. You're missing the point. All they have to do is pass this mandate and they've won....

Because all women wanting an abortion have to hear is that they'll have to go through this (whether or not it'll happen as it's funded/unfunded) and they'll shy away from the abortion...at least, having it in a clinic where, they've been told, they'll have to have the ultra sound.

This is just going to start the process women avoiding clinics for abortions and going, instead, into back alleys and/or using hangers. Which is fine by these Repukes because to their way of thinking any attempt at an abortion should (1) not involve the government and (2) not be easy and (3) be punished--meaning it should be an awful, shameful, horrible experience that could lead to death or sterility.

All they have to do is discourage women from getting legal abortions by making sure they hear that they're going to have to have this invasive ultrasound to get one. And the passing of this law does that. We can only hope that it's brought down fast.

Or, better yet, that enough of us women around the country, whatever our status, get so angry and sick of this shit and decide we're not going to take it any longer. I swear, it's like we're back in the day when politicians think that giving women the vote is all the concession they need make. They scream about government intruding on doctors, then do this. But this is all right because it involves women.

[efhmc]

41. That is right. We need the physicians to protest.

[uppityperson]

38. k&r for more to see since some do cruise "Latest" page.

[Justyce]

44. How can you be forced to have ANY medical procedure

against your will? Much less a vaginally invasive one?? There's a legal term for introducing a foreign object into a woman's vagina against her will....... Surely this would be overturned.

[mwooldri]

45. Those who voted for the law should submit themselves...

... to a monthly colonoscopy so they get an understanding of what law they just allowed to come into effect. I'm thinking colonoscopy is close to a vaginal ultrasound probe in terms of invasiveness... either that or if it was mainly men, they can catheterize themselves with an oversized unlubricated catheter.

This new law stinks.

[alp227]

46. 107-42? Wasn't that the score of that Lakers/Cavs game?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=310111013

Oh wait...seriously? 107 out of 150 representatives of the Texas State House seriously passed this? Shame, shame, shame.

The Texas House has 101 Republicans and 49 Democrats. So that's pretty much every Republican and six Democrats. INCLUDING WOMEN! (e.g. Linda Harper-Brown; Patricia Harless ; Susan King) (record vote here) This is so disgusting right there and even more disgusting that there are cold, selfish women willing to vote for this monstrosity. Let's call those Reps who voted for this violation of human rights (and please don't bring up the "fetal rights" argument) and holler at them (stay away from death threats though!)

Oh, in Texas, Silsbee High School kicked out a cheerleader who didn't want to cheer for the basketball player who allegedly raped her. And a federal appeals court ruled in favor of the school. And at school the girl faced taunting for being a victim. Seems that the patriarchy really swallowed up Texas.

[47of74]

72. Texas is the hind part of this nation

[IcyPeas]

49. I don't see anywhere in the article that says:

Transvaginal ultrasounds? Where are you getting this from?

Also someone referred to it as a "baby" - it is not a baby.

[riderinthestorm]

51. All ultrasounds in the first trimester are transvaginal because the fetus is so small. nt

Commented here simply to answer a question and kick this up.

[nodehopper]

76. when I had a first-semester ultrasound ot find the heartbeat it was not transvaginal. n/t

[plumbob]

50. All members of the Lege who voted for this should have an ultrasound

to prove they have a brain AND a heart!

And watch the "A brain is a terrible thing to waste" commercials at LEAST 1,000 times!!





No sarcasm intended or implied.

[forty6]

55. Just have the ultrasonographer turn up the volume of the

probe to MAX 100,, and let the legislators' pea sized brains sizzle!

[Manifestor_of_Light]

57. I've had a vaginal ultrasound to look for fibroids.

I'm quite a few years past the baby-making stage.

After I had this ultrasound, I felt weak and I had to cry. It felt like rape.

[Justitia]

61. me too - it's horrible & made me bleed

I was so not expecting the experience I had. The wand is much bigger than I expected, the ultrasound is incredibly invasive, and IT HURT.

I never expected to bleed from the procedure. I also teared up while it was happening.

These legislators are hateful and deranged to force this unnecessary procedure on women against their will - FOR REASONS OF PUNISHMENT.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

68. It made me bleed too and I had cervical bruising and pain for three days

Which is just the sort of experience the Texas Taliban want women to endure.

I cannot imagine forcing a woman to undergo this procedure when it's not medically necessary. But, hey, they're women who got themselves knocked-up, so they can't be "good girls". They deserve to suffer physical pain and emotional anguish at the hands of their doctors for their sins. Or at least that's how the Texas Taliban sees it.

[forty6]

77. WOW a guy like me learns a lot from this and other posts. I now agree

that legislation is proposing a medical RAPE of all candidates for abortion. DAMN fascists!

[lanlady]

60. are there any precedents for this?

Seems like a gross invasion of medical and personal privacy and civil liberties. Does any other state in the union have such a law?

[superduperfarleft]

62. "The Senate version also allows a woman to choose not to see the images or sounds if the pregnancy

is the result of rape or incest, or if the fetus has an irreversible medical condition."

Well, gee, thanks for that guys. :eyes:

[BlueIris]

73. Pathetic Texas.

So typical and so very misogynist.