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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 04:43 PM
Original message
Qatar recognises Libyan rebels after oil deal
Source: Al Jazeera 28 Mar 2011 15:39

Qatar has recognised Libya's rebel council as the legitimate representatives of the Libyan people, a day after the group announced an oil contract with the Gulf state.

The move on Monday makes Qatar only the second country to formally recognise the Libyan rebel council, but has been backed by the Gulf Co-operation Council (GCC).

A statement from Abdulrahman al-Attiyah, the outgoing GCC secretary general, said Qatar's "recognition of the transitional council as the only legitimate representative of the Libyan people comes in line with the decisions of the GCC".

....

Qatar also has warplanes taking part in UN- and Arab League-backed air raids aimed at imposing a no-fly zone ...



Read more: http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/03/20...



It's the OIL, stupid!!

Qatar is first Arab nation to recognize the armed rebels as the new owners of Lybia's state oil resources.
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atreides1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
1. It's not about the oil!!!
It's about:

1. Preventing genocide.

2. Keeping the civilian population safe.

3. Helping the "Rebels" create a Democratic government.

But it's not about the oil, it never was!!! :rofl:
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Atypical Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Of course not.
Nah, couldn't be the oil. Never. No way.
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Baclava Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #4
14. nope, no oil here
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Turborama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 01:14 AM
Response to Reply #14
21. And there's the reason it would have been better to just leave Gaddafi to his own devices...
Edited on Tue Mar-29-11 01:23 AM by Turborama
...if it was "all about the oil".

He was just about to wipe out the pesky rebels and everything could have gone back to normal. In fact, to save time and money we'd have been better off vetoing the intervention.

But instead of taking that easy route, a massive political and economic gamble has been made.

If Gaddafi had been left to do what he was going to do there would have been no need to do anything, if that "IT'S ALL ABOUT THE OIL!" conspiracy theory was true. After all, multiple transnational oil corporations had already set up shop there since at least 2004.
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Baclava Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 03:10 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. Obviously the 'status-quo' wasn't good enough - some players wanted bigger stakes
Who knows who the new Arab billionaires will be.
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Turborama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 03:17 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. Only true if you believe it was oil corporations who made the decision, not the SC*. Which I don't
*Security Council.
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
2. And there it is...
our true motivations for bombing Libya.
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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 04:49 PM
Response to Original message
3. Well, if Qatar recognises the Libyan rebels, who am I to wonder what the hell happens next?
Edited on Mon Mar-28-11 04:49 PM by Wilms
:shrug:

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KurtNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 05:11 PM
Response to Original message
5. Hmmmm.. and when did Hillary Clinton meet with reps from the rebels?
March 14th:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/15/world/africa/15clinto...

and we started bombing Gaddafi on the 19th. Is it really such a stretch to think that we too would want some kind of deal BEFORE we backed the rebels. If you disagree then please tell me what you think the rebels gave us at that meeting.
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
6. Qatar Has Quite a bit of Oil Of Their Own
Of the coalition countries, Qatar is probably the only one that can't really be accused of coveting Libya's oil, being an oil-exporting country themselves.
Perhaps this is why the deal was done with them. Of course it will be profitable for Qatar, and there may very well be an element of quid-pro-quo.
We can hardly accuse Qatar of a lack of transparency here though, we are reading about this on Al Jazeera.

It makes perfect sense to use Qatar as an intermediary, if the rebels started making deals with western oil companies directly,
Qadaffi's loyalists would be claiming that those oil companies were behind the whole insurgency.
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. This is a work around the sanctions imposed on the corporations in Lybia.
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Turborama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 12:53 AM
Response to Reply #7
16. You don't know who they're going to do business with yet. BTW it's Libya, not Lybia. n/t
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Turborama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #6
15. Plus the experience and wherewithal to help them restart their oil industry.
I agree, it makes perfect sense and there's no conspiracy about it. As you said, we are reading about this on Al Jazeera.
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Harmony Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 12:55 AM
Response to Reply #6
17. This is why...
a global coalition was vital for the sake of Libya but also the entire region in the near future. It is about time the nations of the world rise up and tackle these challenges. It has been too long since an Arab nation has taken the initiative to improve its sphere of influence. Kudos to Qatar for their trailblazing effort to try to build a better North Africa, and Middle East for all.

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pampango Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 05:43 AM
Response to Reply #17
26. Nice post. And welcome. n/t
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Distant Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #17
38. Qatar! building a better North Africa?? Have you a clue?
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #17
41. Five million dead so far in the Congo. Yeah, the nations of the world are on top of it
when their oil supply is at issue, otherwise millions die and no action is taken.

But, in a major oil-producing nation, a possible, hypothetical future event some predict may happen justifies bombing and shouting regime change.
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DetlefK Donating Member (449 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 05:39 PM
Response to Original message
8. Calm down. It's not about the oil. Right now the rebels want two things: weapons and legitimacy.
Paranoia is rampant here on DU. The capitalist bogeyman is everywhere.
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. What BS. Just because the USA goes to war for oil does not mean DU is paranoid.
The capitalist bogeyman wants you to think we have to go to war for oil though,
when in fact peace is likelier to lower oil prices and profits for the capitalist bogeyman.
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golddigger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Sorry, its always about the fucking oil.
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Indeed. But hey, there are disparate voices on DU.
If you know what I mean!
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Alamuti Lotus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. ...and are apparently willing the trade oil contracts for both
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 03:31 AM
Response to Reply #8
24. This period is being called the second gillded age.
No, DU is not paranoid but thanks for the kind words.
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PurityOfEssence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 04:38 AM
Response to Reply #8
25. Pssst...nobody's talking about what THEY want.
Hardly any of the real players CARE about what they want, unless it's something that can be pointed to for propaganda or something that needs to be covered up to keep the story straight...
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #8
28. Wake up, little sleepy head. :)
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-11 11:55 PM
Response to Original message
13. VIDEO: Libya vs. Iraq
Edited on Mon Mar-28-11 11:57 PM by L. Coyote
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAyCdfOXvec

Thanks for the link Catherina!
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Harmony Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #13
18. The oil contracts...
were more favorable if the current regime was left to do as they pleased. This was in essence the Chinese, and Russian stance. Especially the Chinese who rely on Libyan exports, and the Russians who were exploring to build naval bases in Libya.
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #18
40. More favorable to whom? is the question of the day. With profits going to whom?
This war changes who profits and who the oil goes to.
Already, the armed insurgents are selling oil to new players
in the game, and they are not even the government! GO FIGURE.
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Safetykitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 01:01 AM
Response to Original message
19. You see, we get the oil contracts, then we set up shop, then we do that humanitarian thing.
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Harmony Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 01:11 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. There is no evidence that is the case...
..and the Chinese would not be pleased if that was the outcome.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #20
29. Mr. President, is that you?
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 11:49 AM
Response to Original message
27. How cynical! Of course it's not about the oil...
This is America we're talking about - we are exceptional!



:patriot: :patriot: :patriot:
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #27
31. If I was about to be slaughtered by my government, the first thing I'd do is
cut an oil deal!

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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. Good idea - at the very least, we should be ready to pledge allegiance to...
BIG OIL!
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #31
42. AQ needs some income somewhere!!
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ProgressIn2008 Donating Member (848 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
30. Shocked, I tell you. Shocked. nt
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
33. French Intelligence links. US Treasury. Bank. More things that expose this fraud for oil
Edited on Tue Mar-29-11 12:35 PM by Catherina
This is a literal repost from a thread in GD: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...


Poor, untrained, harmless, civilian rebels suddenly moving forward to capture heavily-defended towns supported by overwhelming "air only" bombing, and now selling oil? In the middle of a death struggle the rebels had time to set up a central bank? Overnight? Red hot bridges for sale!

Notice how rapidly the central bank structure for this cash flow was put in place. This is so wrong, on so many levels. The oil still belongs to a still sovereign nation. This one's for the Guinness Book of Records. What we have here is a major oil and money play, with the rebels being used as puppets and cover, as the oil/money transfer takes place.

How convenient that the US Treasury had the foresight to put this into place

3/22/2011
Treasury will continue monitoring the National Oil Corporations operations in Libya. Should National Oil Corporation subsidiaries or facilities come under different ownership and control, Treasury may consider authorizing dealings with such entities.

http://www.treasury.gov/press-center/press-releases/Pag...

Nothing was planned in advance. Just a group of spontaneous ragtag rebels with keen financial foresight. That's all. Nothing to see here folks, move along. It's strictly a humanitarian effort.

Red hot bridges! Get em right here!. Red hot bridges for sale!

And all this while the European media is busily uncovering the suspect role French Intelligence played in getting this spontaneous *revolution* going.


...

November 18, 2010

A French commercial delegation leaves for Benghazi. In the delegation there are officials from the Ministry of Agriculture and representitives from Cam Cereals, France Export Cereals, Cargill, Glencore, France Agrimer, Soufflet, Louis Dreyfous, and Comagra. Among the delegation, posing as government officials, there are French secret service agents and military staff. Their business was meeting army officers indicated by Mesmari who will be ready to defect from the Libyan army.

While in Benghazi, contact is made with Libyan air defence colonel, Abdallah Gehani, who was indicated by Nouri Mesmari as an army officer who is ready to collaborate to topple Muammar Gaddafi. Gehani had good contacts in Tunisia too.

...

December 23, 2010

A delegation of Libyans arrives in Paris for meetings with Mesrami and other French officials. The Libyans are Ali Ounes Mansouri, Farj Charrant and Fathi Boukhris. These three men will be known later together with Ali Hajj as leaders of the revolution, that started from Benghazi.

The Libyan delegation together with Mesrami and French military and secret service personnel dined at an elegant French restaurant at the Champs Elise.

...

http://www.maltastar.com/pages/r1/ms10dart.asp?a=14727


Red hot bridges! Two for one today!

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. Why do you hate humanity?
lol
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. Must be a genetic flaw. Can't stand crooks and opportunists
especially those who exploit the lives of others for a quick buck. :hi:
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. Here's Hannah Bell's OP on some of the "leaders" of this rebellion:
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. Thanks EFerrari. Bookmarking all of these. n/t
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Alamuti Lotus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #35
39. Noticed that earlier but lost the link -- thanks for posting it again!
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #33
43. Democracy demonstarters in Wisconsin to set up bank and sell state assets
afterall, they are just demonstrating for freedom and have no monetary motives, right :rofl:
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. I've wondered throughout this, how kindly Americans would take it
if for example, California decided to secede, the US federal government ruthlessly crushed the armed rebellion, and another country decided to intervene to help Californians. My first big clue about this uprising was the emphasis on and the mad rush to the oil fields.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. My tipping point was when Human Rights Watch asked why
Obama wasn't getting more credit.

HRW is not a non-political organization and when they dip their oar in, something is going on.

That and the sudden weeping and wailing for the Libyan people where there had been nada, nadita, before.
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #45
46.  There was something before. This was written less than 2 years ago
They're one of the more political NGOs out there now. I don't know how there were years ago but their head since 2001, Tom Malinowski, was Madeline Albright's speechwriter and Clinton's special Assistant. Before that he was with the National Security Council.


by Sarah Leah Whitson
Published in: Foreign Policy
MAY 27, 2009

...

The brittle atmosphere of repression has started to fracture, giving way to expanded space for discussion and debate, proposals for legislative reform, and even financial compensation for families of the hundreds of men killed in a prison riot a decade ago. And while the reform initiatives, if we dare call them that, are fragile and tenuous (skirmishes are common between the would-be reformers and a security establishment quite comfortable using its untrammeled authority), political dynamism and vibrancy are appearing in a country that was closed in every way for decades.

Even more boldly, families of victims of the Abu Sleem prison killings, in which an estimated 1,200 inmates died on June 28 and 29, 1998, at the hands of state security forces, are organizing -- forming their own association -- after a decade of relative silence. Back in 2004, the government said it had established a commission to investigate the episode; no one is sure if such an investigation took place or what it may have found. Instead, the state has started to issue death certificates and offered up to 120,000 dinars (approximately $88,000) in compensation. Refusing the money, some victims' families are instead demanding a real public accounting and justice for their relatives' killers. The association has held a number of demonstrations despite threats of arrest and ostracism. And while members of the group spoke to us with great apprehension, the very presence of a public debate on abuses by the government's internal police is breathtaking for Libya.

The spirit of reform, however slowly, has spread to the bureaucracy as well. A new draft penal code restricts the death penalty to murder convictions (previously, being convicted of a whole host of crimes could get one killed), even as it continues broad restrictions on speech and organizations. The critically important separation of the Justice and Internal Security ministries in 2004 is producing results. The Justice Ministry is now playing more of an oversight role, calling on Internal Security to obey court decisions and pursue cases involving alleged abuse by police officers. Judges are traveling abroad for training. International groups are working to improve prison conditions (the admission that Libyans might have something to learn from the rest of the world is a breakthrough in and of itself). Even the Interior Ministry is now headed by a more modern minister, Gen. Abdelfattah al-Obeidi, who has reportedly been tasked with overhauling Libya's sclerotic police, who had grown accustomed to operating with impunity.

...

But the real impetus for the transformation rests squarely with a quasi-governmental organization, the Qaddafi Foundation for International Charities and Development. With Saif al-Islam, one of Qaddafi's sons, as its chairman, and university professor Yousef Sawani as its director, the organization has been outspoken on the need to improve the country's human rights record. It has had a number of showdowns with the Internal Security Ministry, with whom relations remain frosty. Saif al-Islam is also responsible for the establishment of the country's two semi private newspapers, Oea and Quryna.

...

http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2009/05/28/tripoli-spring


The Qaddafi Foundation for International Charities and Development is the fund we gave $200,000 to after Mutassim Gaddafi and Hillary Clinton met in 2009. Another $200,000 went to Aisha Gaddafi.

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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. "impetus for the transformation rests squarely with a quasi-governmental organization, the Qaddafi..
interesting: "impetus for the transformation rests squarely with a quasi-governmental organization, the Qaddafi Foundation ..."
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. This whole thing is like a really bad movie. I don't think even Hollywood could sell it n/t
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #46
49. Wow. Malinowski. He's the one that wrote that complaint
about Obama no getting enough credit.

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Turborama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-30-11 12:05 AM
Response to Reply #45
50. That was your "tipping point"? Really?
Edited on Wed Mar-30-11 12:16 AM by Turborama
Until this was posted on Monday you were supporting the intervention?


The Timeliness Paradox

Tom Malinowski
March 27, 2011 | 5:53 pm

Here is one lesson we can draw from the mostly negative media commentary about the Obama administration’s actions in Libya: Presidents get more credit for stopping atrocities after they begin than for preventing them before they get out of hand.

The U.S.-led NATO intervention that stopped mass killing in Bosnia in 1995, for example, came only after 200,000 people had already been killed. But because we had witnessed massacre after massacre after massacre over three years of fighting in Bosnia, the difference NATO made when it ended the carnage was palpable, and Bill Clintons achievement in mobilizing the intervention and then negotiating a peace accord was broadly recognized.

Four years later, NATO acted more quickly to stop atrocities in Kosovo, but still not fast enough to prevent Serbian troops from driving nearly a million Kosovar civilians from their homes. When NATOs military intervention eventually allowed those people to return to their homes, most deemed it a success. We had seen horrifying crimes unfold before our eyes, and then those crimes ceased; again we could see and feel the difference Clinton and NATO had made.

In Libya, many people (we dont yet know how many) were arrested, forcibly disappeared and possibly executed as the Qaddafi government consolidated its control over Tripoli and rebel-held enclaves, like Zawiyah, in the countrys west. But the Obama administration and its international allies did act soon enough to prevent the much larger-scale atrocities that would likely have followed Qaddafis reconquest of eastern Libya and especially the city of Benghazi. Indeed, though this intervention must have felt painfully slow to the people of Benghazi as Qaddafis army bore down upon them, it was, by any objective standard, the most rapid multinational military response to an impending human rights crisis in history, with broader international support than any of the humanitarian interventions of the 1990s.

But precisely because the international community acted in timebefore Qaddafi retook Benghaziwe never saw what might have happened had they not acted. Today in eastern Libya, there are no columns of refugees marching home to reclaim their lives; no mass graves testifying to the gravity of the crisis; no moment that symbolizes a passing from horror to hope. The sacking of Benghazi was the proverbial dog that didnt bark. And so, just days into the military operation, commentators have moved on to a new set of questionssome serious (Is the mission to protect civilians or to remove Qaddafi? Will NATO be stuck patrolling a divided country?), and some trivial (Should Obama have gone to Brazil when the bombing started? Did the interventionist girls in his administration out-argue the cautious boys?)

Full article: http://www.tnr.com/article/politics/85856/the-speed-par...




Nothing from Human Rights Watch about Libya before? Really?

REALLY?

Here's a list of reports dating back to 2004: http://www.hrw.org/en/by-issue/publications/232

Their Libya homepage: http://www.hrw.org/en/middle-eastn-africa/libya

"HRW is not a non-political organization" - What Human Rights Watch does is intrinsically political. They are well known for taking a stand.

Here's another example of them speaking truth to power that you're probably going to hate...

Events of 2 years ago sparked current uprising in Libya
A group of families in Benghazi took to the streets two years ago, laying the foundation for the current revolt
by Jo Becker
Published in: Global Post
MARCH 11, 2011
http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2011/03/11/events-2-years-ag...

In fact, what happened 2 years ago was related to something that happened 15 years ago...

Libya: June 1996 Killings at Abu Salim Prison
JUNE 27, 2006
http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2006/06/27/libya-june-1996-k...

Here's the latest press release...

Libya: Immediately Release Woman Who Alleged Rape
Family and Journalists Should Confirm Eman al-Obeidy is Free and Safe
MARCH 28, 2011
http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2011/03/28/libya-immediately...

How do you feel about Amnesty International after seeing this...?


(Image is a live link)
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Turborama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-30-11 12:24 AM
Response to Reply #44
51. You've forgotten already how all this started? It was a peaceful rebellion to start with
It became an "armed rebellion" after the brutal crushing (with foreign mercenaries) began.
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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-30-11 12:27 AM
Response to Original message
52. Pot, Kettle. Kettle, Pot...
birds of a feather?
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