Nine killed and 81 injured in Kandahar protest against US burning of Qur'an

[Lost-in-FL]

Source: guardian.co.uk

Nine people have been killed and 81 injured in the Afghan city of Kandahar during a demonstration against the burning of a Qur'an by Christian extremists in the US.

Violence erupted as hundreds of demonstrators marched through Kandahar a day after seven foreigners were killed when an angry mob stormed a United Nations compound in the northern city of Mazar-e Sharif. Hundreds of people took part in the protest. Gunfire was heard and cars were set on fire.

In a statement, the Kandahar governor's office claims demonstrators were incited by the Taliban. Authorities say 17 people, including seven armed men, have been arrested.

Read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/apr/02/nine-killed-81-injured-kandahar-protest-quran

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More fundie christian vs. fundie muslim fulled violence, brought to you by the State of Florida... the "King of stupid".

[uppityperson]

1. Would you please edit out "state of florida" since it wasn't the state but 1 asshole? Thanks

[Iliyah]

3. PLEASE

it wasn't the US but a lone so called man of God.

Prayers go out.

[Lost-in-FL]

53. Sorry for being too late to fix this.

You and I both KNOW that the whole state is not like this POS pastor. However, lots of negative attention surrounds Florida. We have Rush, we have Ann Coulter, we have this idiot pastor... the list goes on and on...

Too bad that the deranged minority makes it to the news faster than the no non-sense people.

[AngryAmish]

54. There is a Florida tag for a reason...

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[northernlights]

5. islam must evolve?

You are joking, right?

How about, every religion and every society has its fanatic nutcases.

*We* must evolve to understand that deliberately provoking fanatic nutcases may lead to violent consequences. And start taking responsibility for *not* provoking irrational nutcases.

Freedom of speech does NOT equate to freedom from consequences.

[Kolesar]

6. Christianity survived "The Enlightenment", now it's their turn

Their dictators promote this hypersensitive b/s because it helps to reinforce their domination. That's gotta change.

[Youth Uprising]

41. + 1

[freshwest]

61. Yes, the rulers of most countries use fundamentalists to terrify the rest of the population.

And it's not like we haven't seen it here, either.

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[joshcryer]

9. YouTube has Koran, Bible, Book of Mormon burnings that predate this whole thing...

...by 3-4 years. Not kidding. Hundreds of videos. In the USA this sort of thing is highly uncontroversial. The media is what sensationalized this shit.

[uppityperson]

10. How many Muslims agree with the violence? How many disagree? "islam needs to evolve" is a

bigoted statement since most muslims are not ok with this. Calling all of "islam" bad based on the actions of extremists is wrong. This is rather like saying christians need to evolve to not killing people who disagree with their stance on legal abortions like Scott Roeder.

Thank you for making your prejudices clear.

[lbrtbell]

29. Here we go again.

There's no bigotry in wanting any group of people to stop being brutal.

Where is the outrage of these moderate Muslims? I used to be Catholic, but I left the church as a protest against the child molestation that the Vatican largely turns a blind eye to. Moderate Muslims need to make a similar stand against the extremists.

Finally, are you saying Christians SHOULDN'T evolve to reject the murders of abortion providers?? ALL religions should evolve to be tolerant and peaceful--that's not bigotry, that's a fact.

[uppityperson]

33. However, there IS bigotry in saying all Muslims are brutal because some are.

As is evidenced by the deleted posts.

"ALL religions should evolve to be tolerant and peaceful--that's not bigotry, that's a fact." Of course.

[cheapdate]

39. There are statements condemning violence from moderate Muslims in abundance

if you make any attempt at all to see it.

[northernlights]

21. Um, they need to retreat from the free world?

Howazabout the free world stops bombing their homes and family into oblivion? As far as I can tell, we're the ones that keep invading their homelands and turning them into unlivable bombed out dumps full of corpses, not the other way around.

And then we add insult to injury by burning their holy book. Right. Because *we're* so superior, with our "freedoms." And *they* need to evolve. Whatever. :eyes:

[lbrtbell]

30. Christians like B*sh started those wars

Proving that Christianity, too, needs to evolve.

[TMcCaleb]

23. agree

[lbrtbell]

28. Far more important than book burnings...

The West needs to stop the fanatics from brutally torturing, killing, and throwing acid on women who "dare" to commit "sins" like being raped.

Christianity is bad enough toward women, but these horrible "honor killings" and genital mutilation as a "coming of age" ceremony are human rights violations.

[customerserviceguy]

13. And those consequences

should have been visited on this fundie nutcase preacher, not innocent parties.

If radical Islam cannot grasp this simple concept, then it is indeed time for it to either evolve or be eliminated. This is the kind of crazy shit that drove christian religious minorities out of Old Europe.

[uppityperson]

15. " radical Islam" vs "islam". thank you for agreeing it is the fundie nutcases.

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[northernlights]

45. there are *always* consequences

for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. There are *always* consequences for *all* action, good or evil.

We have bombed the hell out of these people and destroyed their lives. Then some dumbass pisses on their holy book. Yes, they acted insane. Some of them *are* insane. They were driven insane by our bombs.

And then we act all surprised when they get all pissy over our contemptuous behavior. Like how *dare* they not respect *our* laws.

[cali]

50. yes, the war in Afghanistan has caused suffering but let's

remember that prior to that war, most of Afghanistan was controlled by the Taliban who unleashed their own version of hell on the populace.

[customerserviceguy]

49. I certainly was not calling for his death

but if he's denied visas by the UK (something that actually happened), its a forseeable consequence of the crap he is spouting.

I'm sorry if I left the impression that murdering him was any better of an idea than murdering the people who did get killed from this criminal overreaction to an intolerant action.

[rollin74]

14. I agree....Islam must evolve

why in the world should someone who burns a book be considered responsible for 9 MURDERS?!?
The violent nutcases are solely responsible for their extreme overreaction and the killing.

[uppityperson]

16. " violent nutcases " . Thank you also for noticing it is the violent extremists not all of Islam

[northernlights]

19. because the book-burner *knew* he was provoking

violent nutcases to commit murder and mayhem, and proceeded to provoke them anyway. Nutcases can't help themselves. The provocateurs are using them.

In the same way that when somebody provokes a dog, say poking it repeatedly with a stick, or dangling food in front of it and yanking it away, we blame the *provacateur* for getting bitten, not the dog for acting like a dog.

There are violent nutcases on the loose in the world. Why would anybody deliberately provoke them to commit murder? Oh, maybe because Americans can do anything they want, and American Christian haters are superior to everybody.

After all, we have "freedom of speech." Why shouldn't we hide behind that freedom and use provoke *nutcases* to do our killing for us?

[lbrtbell]

31. Christians AND Muslims need to get over themselves

If they'd quit trying to ram their beliefs down everyone's throats, the world would be a far more peaceful place.

[TomCADem]

47. Folks Defending Sexual Harassment Make Similar Arguments - Grow A Thick Skin!

Speech sometimes has entirely predictable consequences, which cause severe trauma. Sexual and racial harassment in the workplace is regulated, and employers can be penalized for the racist or sexist statements of their employees, which creates a hostile work environment. I can understand your point that the folks who here such offensive statements need to grow a thick skin, but the burning of Koran is just another type of hate speech that is designed to cause fear and initimidation and provoke violance similar to a cross burning.

[indimuse]

11. are you kidding me?

How about we get the F&*K out of other peoples country and STOP KILLING THEM!!! hellloooo..

[Youth Uprising]

43. What does that have to do with anything?

[SkyDaddy7]

17. The Afghans are literally centuries behind us in thinking...

and that goes for other Islamic cultures as well. The idiot in Fla. knows this is easy & to him fun because it gives him a sense of power...Look for more over the top BS from him in the not so distant future. He has got a taste of power & that will not die down especially since he is driven by RELIGION!

Not making excuses for the violence just being real...It is much like taking candy from a 3 year old & expecting him not to cry...Regardless of how many times you do it the 3 year old will cry!

[sabrina 1]

22. It should not indict a billion people, the brutal, ignorant actions

of a few. It should make extremists who murder and/or incite murder because of their fundie religious beliefs look like what they are, criminals.

The vast majority of Americans are not inciting dangerous people into committing violence like Jones, and the vast majority of Muslims are not committing violence against innocent people like these criminals.

However, I do agree with you that because of the way these stories are presented, they often do give the impression that we need to fear all Muslims.

[northernlights]

4. now, now. "freedom of speech" aligns with

"freedom from consequences" as long as you're on the "right" side.

Just because the fundie asshole *knew* that he was provoking irrational nutcases doesn't mean he bears any responsibility for their acting like irrational nutcases after he deliberately provoked them.

Just like those obnoxious a$$holes that provoked Tatiana bear no responsibility for her "irrational" response in killing their friend. After all, irrational or not, she should have understood their laws and constitution, and understood they were only making fun of her roar, not attacking her personally. :shrug:

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[uppityperson]

12. " We don't need to change. islam does." Thank you again for making your prejudices clear

I notice you don't speak out against fanatical extremists but "islam". Fanatical extremists don't need to change, only "islam does". Thank you for explaining your prejudices so clearly.

[northernlights]

20. oh, but you don't get it...

There aren't any violent extremist Christians or violect extremist Jews, or violent extremist anybodies that need to change. Only all of Islam, to accept the fact that Christian Americans can drop bombs on them day after day, kill their families and children, destroy their lives. And then in the final insult, sit back in the smugness of their hate churches, hide behind the safety of "freedom of speech"... and burn their holy books and watch the mayhem that results.

And then to add further insult, blame the victims for being "oversensitive" and tell *them* that *they* have to evolve. :eyes:

[TMcCaleb]

24. except

Christians arent waging "jihad" or religious wars anymore.

[lbrtbell]

32. Tell that to a Wiccan

"Moderate" Christians bully and beat up Wiccan kids in school all the time. Wiccans have to "stay in the broom closet" for fear of losing their jobs (remember the TSA agent in the news recently?).

Also, have you completely failed to notice how Christians are trying to trample over the line between Church and State? Or how they support war, how they want to oppress women, and so on ad nauseum?

It's a bloodless jihad, and it is a religious war, against anyone who disagrees with them.

[northernlights]

44. true. They're only waging wars for oil.

and bombing the hell out of Afghanistan, Iraq, Yemen, etc.

Don't forget that our recent presidents have worn their Christianity very much on their shoulders. Shoved the unpleasant taste of it down many of our throats.

[TMcCaleb]

59. while Iraq and probably Afghanistan were/are

wastes of lives and money, they weren't waged for religious reasons.

[14thColony]

46. Well that will be a great relief

...to all the people NOT murdered by the Irish Republican Army, the Real IRA, the Provisional IRA, the Ulster Defence League, the Bosnian Serb Black Eagles, the White Wolves, the Croatian Ustahsi, the Black Hand, and the numerous other groups of violent extremist Christians who "aren't waging "jihad" or religious wars anymore."

I'm particularly heartened by the Bosnian Serb Orthodox Christian militiamen who DIDN'T rape all the Muslim women of one particular village in Bosnia, then DIDN'T CRUCIFY the women on wooden crosses in front of their husbands.

Yes, thank God Christians don't wage religious wars anymore.

Or more likely you aren't aware of anything that happened more than a month ago, huh?

[TMcCaleb]

62. the kook pastor was wrong

wrong but this beheading/killing spree was way out of proportion. Christianity is often mocked but the response is usually different. Remember when South Park pulled an epiosode about Mohammad due to threats or the riots following the Danish cartoon........

[freshwest]

60. It may feel that way to the middle easterners, though...

And it seems that the extreme christians are the ones putting a christian versus islam spin on this right now, don't you agree?

Yet, I say let him burn the book. And let him hold his kangaroo court of their prophet too, for all his alleged crimes.

But don't forget to drag in every other criminal acting in the name of every other religion the islamic prophet's defense, eh?

Out of this pathetic hatefest, the world might learn something.

[alp227]

18. "Religion poisons everything" --Christopher Hitchens n/t

[TMcCaleb]

25. The faster we

get out of these cesspools the better. Just like we shouldnt be helping the "rebels" in Libya.

[uppityperson]

35. Afghanistan is a "cesspool"? As is Iraq and Libya? Please clarify. Thank you

[daleo]

38. The countries aren't cesspools

But being involved in a hopeless war anywhere makes it seem that way (i.e. war is a cesspool).

Anyway, that's how I interpreted the remark.

[TMcCaleb]

58. re

People chopping off heads.............savage behavior, many in the country are stuck in the 15th century.

[sulphurdunn]

26. Why are we in that shithole of a country anyway?

And why is it that Terry Jones and his shithead, knuckle walking brethren aren't?

[uppityperson]

36. Afghanistan is a "shithole of a country"?

[sulphurdunn]

48. Perhaps that was a little harsh.

I take it back. :rant:

[AngryAmish]

55. By most reasonable standards, Afghanistan is a shithole

What of any use do they produce? Heroin? The last great work of literature turned out of Afghanistan is? Nobel Prize? Life expectancy? Human rights?

No, it is a shithole. Just not a good country.

[jwirr]

27. One stupid ass American citizen does not represent the rest of us.

He is to blame for this not us.

[primavera]

65. One Saudi was responsible for 9/11...

... but that didn't stop us from invading two countries that, um, had absolutely nothing to do with Osama bin Laden.

[ooglymoogly]

34. Insanity v/ insanity

There is a nutjob "church" on every corner and every strip-mall in Florida. It is a business. Selling the hateful voices in their heads to like lune's who can Identify. It is the same with hypocrite fundies of whatever religion, anywhere in the world. They cannot co-exist with sane folk and have been the excuse for wars, hypocrisy and corruption and the fall of civilizations from the beginning of man.

[daleo]

37. If there were no western troops in Afghanistan

The Koran burning protests would be a lot less violent. It's the combination of the two that makes things turn out this extreme.

If people burned copies of the U.S. constitution in China, most Americans wouldn't get that upset. But if hundreds of thousands of Chinese troops were occupying the U.S. at the same time that the constitution was being burned, that would be quite a different story.

[Turborama]

68. Good analogy

Particularly because a great deal of Americans do revere the Constitution similarly to how Muslims venerate the Qur'an.

[Youth Uprising]

40. Unbefuckinglievable...

Words cannot express how angry I am right now... My blood is boiling with rage. This kind of shit makes me sick to my stomach.
My condolences go out to the families of the victims.

[slackmaster]

51. Unrec for attempting to equate a harmless act of expression with violence

:nuke:

[Lost-in-FL]

52. Really? Harmless? For you and your family perhaps.

It was clear that this pastor expected a violent reaction from Islamists... just like the rest of the world. He probably "prayed" for it.

So I would like to ask you... what was the point but to instigate a revolt and putting innocent people in harms way? Is that your idea of harmless?

Basic situational awareness dictates that a country that is almost 85% illiterate (in the sense that they do not read or write) would go apeshit defending the very book they cannot even read.

Now, I hate to break it down to you but no, this is not about "freedom of speech or expression". What a sorry excuse for such hubristic, vile act. This "harmless" 'game' or 'prank' as you want to represent it, is an act of premeditated and highly unecessary aggression. Past events proved that. Why add more to the outrage? Caring people-those with kind motives towards the Afghan people and the other countries they serve -didn't had to to die to prove this shameless piece of human garbage right.

I don't blame those defending their belief or duty to defend their fairytale, based on a cleric's misguided and predatory counsel specially if they belong to a country with zero resources after being raped for decades by the west. I blame those in the west, that having all kinds of resources available to promote a better life for themselves and to perhaps help others, choose to be criminally ignorant and deplorable to make a point.

I would defend anyone's right to expression but this is not the way to go about it. There are thousands of other ways to make a point without putting others in harms ways.

[SpartanDem]

56. Why should we change for these knuckle draggers?

these are the same people that rioted and killed over a fucking cartoon by a Danish artist; who had to into hiding for months to protect himself from these nuts. I don't think we should restrict our speech, something that is dear to our society, because they want act like barbarians. If they can't deal with the fact that burning religious text and other blasphemous acts is protected speech in our society screw them and caves they crawled out of

[Lost-in-FL]

57. I am sure a lot of people see Americans as "knuckle dragging-

carpet bombing assholes" too, but I am not discussing that but the disingenuous and un-original attempt by this pastor at "freedom of expression" by burning a Quran. This was clearly intentional, he wanted people to riot in the streets over the burning of a holy fairy tale. That's all there was to this, a vicious attack against a religion perpetrated by the equally idiotic with clearly no positive outcome but only polarizing the Middle East and the West.

I am well aware of the Danish cartoons, the condemnation of Salman Rushdie for writing a book, the killing of Theo Van Gogh's... yara, yara... In the end, all attempts have the same outcome, getting us nowhere. I am not suggesting to back down or restrict speech, but to be creative and rational.

IMO, this type of attack by Westerners against Muslims can only damage the credibility of our society just the same way going apeshit is damaging the credibility of the ME. Really, how are we going to inspire any change if we are also behaving as sophomoric neanderthalians? The challenge is how to think beyond what has being done and move on. Whatever it is that we are doing is not working but it is only polarizing both cultures. The riots will only continue. And then what? Now with electronic books, what are we to do? A mass deletion of ebooks? :eyes:

[SpartanDem]

64. I'm sure they do and I think there are plenty of them.

and I'll agree it was intentional, but I think the onus is on them to not react in this manner. If the KKK marches in my city as black man I may want to chuck a brick at one of their heads, but I know that is not the way to react. Jones is being a major leage asshole, but all they did was give him and those like more ammo.

I've often thought the Middle East needs its own MLK to lead a non violent social justic movement. The civil rights movement was one lead by religious leaders and the non violent aspect was key to its success.

[Lost-in-FL]

66. I totally get what you are saying and you are right.

They should not have reacted that way, however, we have a very deficient media and other factors could have yielded to the violence. Apparently, they "attempted" to have a peaceful demonstration until the ___ hit the fan. I still think that both sides are at fault for what happened BUT in the end the crazies in our side of the pond started it.

The only positive spin I can put on this is that the reaction was not immediate like before (maybe and attempt by the media to keep it quiet?), and it seems that it is not spreading to the neighboring ME countries. Sadly, I don't think they expect nothing remotely positive coming from the west anymore.

They do need a leader and hopefuly this is their intention with their call for removing the old dictators. Only that it is going to take decades. Faster if the west would live them alone.

[Vinee]

63. I love a predictable enemy. nt

[Skittles]

67. religious nuttery on both sides