Major Panel: Drug War Failed; Legalize Marijuana

[Purveyor]

Source: ASSOCIATED PRESS

(06-01) 17:01 PDT New York (AP) --

The global war on drugs has failed and governments should explore legalizing marijuana and other controlled substances, according to a commission that includes former heads of state, a former U.N. secretary-general and a business mogul.

A new report by the Global Commission on Drug Policy argues that the decades-old "global war on drugs has failed, with devastating consequences for individuals and societies around the world." The 24-page paper will be released Thursday.

"Political leaders and public figures should have the courage to articulate publicly what many of them acknowledge privately: that the evidence overwhelmingly demonstrates that repressive strategies will not solve the drug problem, and that the war on drugs has not, and cannot, be won," the report said.

The 19-member commission includes former U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan and former U.S. official George P. Schultz, who held cabinet posts under U.S. Presidents Ronald Reagan and Richard Nixon. Others include former U.S. Federal Reserve chairman Paul Volcker, former presidents of Mexico, Brazil and Colombia, writers Carlos Fuentes and Mario Vargas Llosa, U.K. business mogul Richard Branson and the current prime minister of Greece.

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2011/06/01/national/a170131D25.DTL

[muntrv]

1. ...And tax it.

[aquart]

9. YES!

[Bacchus39]

34. no taxes on the home grown variety n/t

n

[RaleighNCDUer]

70. Handle it the same as home brewing -

if you only grow enough for yourself & friends, as a hobby, you're good.

If you start selling it, if falls under different regulations, and you get taxed on your profits.

The only way you go to jail is if you try to avoid the taxes.

[Bacchus39]

114. yes, cultivation is distinct from commerce n/t

[MrMickeysMom]

44. Not only tax the shit out of it...

but, realize what a sustainable crop hemp is from nutritional standpoint, fiber and cloth, which can replace much of the tobacco crop.

Christ ... will it take Nancy saying, "yes!" for the truth to come out on weed?

[mdmc]

2. chuckleheads will say we are winning the war on drugs

chuckleheads that I will end up voting for in 2012 sadly..

[angel823]

87. unfortunately

me too.

[mdmc]

126. courage

my friend..

[tridim]

3. Great. Okay, GO!

Enough talk, just do it. The studies have already been done and the polls have been taken.

Do something!

[AlecBGreen]

8. decrim/legalization is THE third rail issue in most of America

you might get a level-headed congressperson to sponsor the resolution but there is no way it will clear either the house or senate. So sad when fear and greed rule policy :(

[Serve The Servants]

58. I know of a few Norcal growers who want to keep things the way they are

They're making a ton of money growing and selling weed on the black market.

They can kiss my ass as well.

[LiberalLoner]

4. If we don't have money to pay for food for children to eat, or pay for

the Medicare and SS that you and I have been paying into all our lives, then they don't have money to lock up someone for smoking a joint. (I am not into pot smoking, but I also don't see someone who smokes a joint as dangerous as, say, a serial killer.)

We are broke. I'd rather see my tax money going to support SS and Medicare than for locking up people who like to toke. Hey, that even rhymes.

[The Wizard]

5. The drug war

like other politically driven indulgences, is something that is no longer affordable. Every politician wants to look tough on something. The drug war filled that need and also provided a dumping ground for politically connected hacks who needed a job with benefits.
The military adventures also drain valuable resources from the economy.
It's time for smart government driven by compassion and logic. Stupid government rooted in fear and superstition is a luxury we can no longer afford.

[AlbertCat]

42. is something that is no longer affordable.

Are you kidding?

The private prison industry depends on it. All kinds of people are making a bundle on it.

[bemildred]

6. Nixon Tapes Reveal Twisted Roots Of Marijuana Prohibition

Washington, DC: "We need, and I use the word 'all out war,' or all fronts . . . ." That was Richard Nixon's reaction to his national commission's recommendation that marijuana no longer be a criminal offense, according to Nixon's Oval Office tapes. The year after Nixon's "all out war" marijuana arrests jumped by over 100,000 people.

(Download a PDF copy of the CSDP Research Report, "Nixon Tapes Show Roots of Marijuana Prohibition: Misinformation, Culture Wars and Prejudice," as well as text transcripts of portions of Nixon White House taped conversations, including the portions excerpted in the report. Also, check out this column written by humorist Gene Weingarten of the Washington Post on March 21, 2002, based on CSDP's research work, "Just What Was He Smoking?" Read this op-ed by CSDP President Kevin B. Zeese, "Once-Secret 'Nixon Tapes' Show Why The US Outlawed Pot." Finally, review the Shafer Commission's report, "Marihuana, A Signal of Misunderstanding," by clicking here.)

The Nixon White House tapes from 1971-1972 demonstrate that the foundation of the modern war on marijuana was Nixonian prejudice, culture war and misinformation. CSDP's Doug McVay spent several days at the National Archives listening to the Nixon White House tapes to find conversations about drug policy, especially regarding the National Commission on Marihuana and Drug Abuse ("the Shafer Commission"), appointed by President Nixon. He found: Nixon blaming calls for marijuana legalization on Jews; Nixon blaming the decline and fall of ancient Rome, and of the Catholic Church, on homosexuality; and Nixon criticizing the CBS sitcom "All in the Family" as a show which promoted homosexuality. (Check out some of these transcripts.)

More importantly, Nixon made clear several times that he wanted a report which supported his views and 'tough on crime' policies, no matter what the facts might be. To his credit, Governor Shafer delivered instead an honest report, with conclusions based on all the evidence -- even though at the time he was being considered for a federal judgeship (needless to say, he didn't get it).

http://www.csdp.org/news/news/nixon.htm

[defendandprotect]

82. K/R -- This should be a separate thread --

Thank you --

I've saved your info --

:)

[sarcasmo]

7. Tax it and legalize it already.

[Rageneau]

10. Or, we could do something real stupid -- like Obama is doing.

Obama does not care about truth, courage, justice or proportionality. He does the bidding of his right-wing supporters and continues to prosecute and persecute harmless citizens for using a harmless, god-given plant.

This single issue is enough for me to have disdain for everything else he may accomplish.

[tridim]

11. LMAO at Obama's "right wing supporters"

[frylock]

27. that's cute. but i notice you have no argument to defend your hypocritical, drug warrior president..

surely you can do better than to herp on this thread.

[Occulus]

32. Hypocritical, LYING, drug warrior president.

Remember what he said about medical marijuana raids during his campaign.

We expected him to keep his promise. That sort of promise, when broken, is reason all by itself to withhold a vote for the second term

[frylock]

37. word up

[boppers]

122. Falsifying medical records and tax evasion are still crimes.

If MM clinics want to stay open, they have be totally focused on complying 100% with the letter of the law. Dispensing marijuana is a business/non-profit operation that can't afford to make a *single* mistake. Much like a bar or strip club, folks are already gunning for you, looking for an excuse to take you down.

[U4ikLefty]

123. Hey Boppers, has anybody died from overdosing on marijuana?

Please provide evidence.

[defendandprotect]

83. Wall Street and banksters are on the left now?

[Action]

77. Get real!

The rightie dominated media machine (no matter what they say) would destroy Obama on this issue. If you only vote on how a candidate views pot, you are really in denial. The only way Obama would do something about the legality of pot, would be after he wins a SECOND TERM.

See how this works?

[defendandprotect]

84. More promises?

[villager]

12. Well, terrified spineless Democrats certainly won't do it...

n/t

[tridim]

13. With that tude, they're certainly not terrified of you.

Please don't give up before the game starts.

[villager]

15. unlike the way you've been whipping them into line, you mean?

:shrug:

[tridim]

18. Pretty much. It may be futile, but it feels better than quitting.

[villager]

21. No one said anything about quitting -- I mean, Dems have basically quit, as viable "reformers"

But that doesn't mean real change can't come from the streets, the bottom up, etc...

:thumbsup:

[frylock]

43. whoosh!

keep whippin 'em into line with complacency!

[LetTimmySmoke]

14. Good on them for their show of courage.

The problem is, there is a lot of money interest in the War on Drugs, and they're not gonna want to see their spigot turned off.

[provis99]

16. yeah, well that will happen when pigs fly.

[marlakay]

25. Stupid ipad clicking

I hit alert on your message in error. I left it blank, if a mod sees it my bad....

[Stumbler]

17. Logical and common sense. That's why it'll never happen in the US

That and TPTB are already profiting quite handsomely by maintaining the status quo. Legal MJ is a threat to every gov't agency that gets funding for participating in the War on Drugs, not to mention the privately-owned prison industry, drug-testing labs, Big Pharma, and to a lesser extent the licensed beverage industry (some of us would rather smoke than drink to relax after work). Don't forget, if we legalize MJ, legalized hemp cultivation won't be far behind. This is a big threat to logging, cotton & synthetic textile producers, and Big Ag (for bio-fuels). Each of these entities have many lobbyists in Washington and feel threatened by their loss of revenue is MJ and hemp cultivation were legalized.

[MH1]

19. Your 'duh' news for the day

but the drug war hasn't failed for the profiteers of the prison industrial complex.

[Plucketeer]

20. ENOUGH with the analyzing already!

Let folks HAVE what they want. Use US aircraft and personnel to haul and distribute the stuff. Charge JUST enough to pay for the operations + a tax. Don't regulate the distribution to death. Let anyone over 18 have the stuff IF they sign a waiver that absolves the govt. of ANY treatments or rehab.

OVERNIGHT - the cartels will crash and lawmen and innocent bystanders will cease to die. After all, how many of such die for every idiot that succumbs to drug OD???

[Enthusiast]

100. You act as if reason will prevail.

We could resolve many pressing issues if legislators used a bit of reason. Ain't gonna happen.

[Plucketeer]

110. Wishful delusions

I suffer - no, WE suffer, from that alot. :crazy:

[Better Believe It]

22. K & R

[Initech]

23. Legalizing drugs will end the cartel violence in Mexico.

[psychopomp]

29. Then the cartels just become legit businessmen, untouchable by the law

Who do you think is going to run the coke business once it becomes legal?

Weed, on the other hand...well, the cottage industry of weed production will be enough to make cartel profits shrink. Still, the cartels' big money is in coke.

[sudopod]

46. RJ Reynolds and Pfizer. nt

[joshcryer]

51. That depends, synthetic cocaine could be cheaper to manufacture than organic.

If it turns out that way then the cartels are fucked because the big drug manufacturers would simply make it in massive quantities at a low cost. Nicotine ditartrate is manufactured synthetically and is sold to e-cig suppliers to make 'e-juice' for example, and it is likely added to tobacco since the nicotine content in cigarettes has increased a few percent every year for decades.

Question is basically whether or not these cartels can built the manufacturing facilities, it's not like they have a name brand to go on, they're horribly exploitive of the growers.

[MaineDeadHead]

60. Cannabis not Cocaine is the big ticket item

The Cartels make about 60% of their money from selling cannabis according to the ONDCP.

[defendandprotect]

78. Like the liquor runners that turned legitimate after prohibition?

John Kennedy's father was one as I recall?

[zipplewrath]

89. Nope, not really

It's a common misconception, but there really is no evidence Kennedy was ever a rum runner, or involved in the illegal liquor trade at all. About the time that prohibition was coming to an end, he negotiated a deal with some British distilleries to be the sole importer into the US market, LEGALLY. He was just fortuitously positioned when the law was repealed. The accusations started appearing at the end of the 1950's and there really is no substantiation of them.

The comparisons of the end of prohibition and the legalization of the drug trade ignore one significant issue. The US was the ONLY country that had such a law. As such, there was an existing LEGAL industry in place when it was repealed. The end of the drug trade will be far more like when the mob started building casinos in Vegas. It actually gave them a large "legitimate" industry from which to operate. One would probably see much the same thing here. Criminal elements leveraging otherwise "legal" institutions to further their criminal enterprises. But much like Vegas, ultimately the profit from the legal side will tend to incentivize them to divorce themselves from the illegal activites.

[defendandprotect]

94. The "mob" or organized crime can only exist at the pleasure of elites ...

and with corrupted government and corrupted elected officials --

Corrupt politics in Mexico has also served American interests in cheap labor --

otherwise they'd be investing in their own nation instead of ours --

providing jobs for their own population.


Certainly, increasing opportunities to gamble hasn't been in the interests of

our communities or society -- it simply drains money from more legitimate needs,

harms families.

[JackRiddler]

107. 'Criminal elements leveraging otherwise "legal" institutions to further their criminal enterprises'

You mean, like AIG? Goldman Sachs? The Belgian crown and Societe Generale?

[zipplewrath]

113. The first "legalized prohibition"

Just about every major religion on earth has some prohibition against usery/interest and generally the banking industry. Yet it was probably the first prohibition that was legalized. Not the oldest profession, but probably close to #2.

[RaleighNCDUer]

88. Wrong.

Did the Mafia take over the booze industry after the end of prohibition?

No. They were not businessmen, and didn't know how to run a business without a machine gun. The brewers and distillers who knew the business took over, once again, and did just fine.

In this case, it will be the growers in Humbolt County, (and thousands more like them) not the cartels, who will be the legitimate producers and distributors. The cartels will turn to gunrunning, human trafficking, extortion and kidnapping - you know, CRIMES - to make their money. But without the funding of drugs they will no longer be able to buy the cops and judiciary, just as the Mafia here was unable to maintain control after losing the income from booze.

As for the coke, the same applies - the cartels don't know how to conduct legitimate business, and they will no longer be able to own the police and courts. The incredible profit margins only exist because it is illegal. Like the mafia, they will collapse under their own excesses, scale back the violence, and they will go the way of Murder Inc.

Two decades after the end of drug prohibition the cartels will be 1) a bad memory, and 2) fodder for comedy.

[joshcryer]

52. That violence will go out in a huge bang, though, it'll be nasty and for months people will say...

...legalizing it is having no effect. The cartels will try to take their illicit grows and supply sources and make them legal, the battle will then be who gets to build the supply chain first and fastest, and they will likely fight it out to stop one or the other from winning.

I wish I could believe that they'd immediately realize how profitable it would be and make a truce with one another (if not a conglomerate) but I am cynical these days.

[bertman]

24. Too many people getting rich off prisons, law enforcement, lawyer fees, weaponry,

high-tech surveillance gear, all the goodies that go with a fascist security state operation like the 'War on Drugs'.

Democrats are scared of their fucking shadows. They will NEVER do anything about this.

REC.

[valerief]

26. I thought the drug war was all about making rich people richer.

That happened, so how did it fail?

[defendandprotect]

95. Agree -- and always wondering about those secret Swiss Bank accounts -- !!

[Taverner]

28. Where are the DU "Drugs are bad, mmmmkay?" Crew?

You know those DUers who think the government and corporations have a right to know what you do on your off hours....

[Occulus]

30. They have nothing to rebut with.

This was issued by a major UN panel. There is nothing they can say to it.

Also, they know that if they try, they will be ripped apart. This is because they are lying cowards who cannot defend the (lack of) merits of their position.

[Nihil]

63. Looks like they're busy creating sock-puppets ...

(Judging from the sudden arrival of a less-than-convincing one upthread)
:rofl:

[Courtesy Flush]

116. Well, actually

If drugs are legal, won't it be easier for government and corporations to track them? Pharmacists keep records. Pushers don't.

[Taverner]

120. That's what I would think. Same goes for prostitution.

[blackspade]

31. Obvious commission is obvious.

Duh!
Did it seriously take an international commission to discover the obvious?

[russspeakeasy]

33. We fought this war on our standard terms..lock people up and pretend

we are winning. And, by the way, name the last war we won...

[craigmatic]

35. It's a very true and positive argument too bad the government in this country is run on fear and

superstition.

[slay]

36. Well.. YEAH!

duh - it's about time - i hope they do. the drug war is total bullshit.

[defendandprotect]

38. End the fake drug war -- and legalize ALL plants -- except Monsanto's seed -- !!!

[drokhole]

41. In the words of Terence Mckenna...

"Let us declare nature to be legitimate. The notion of illegal plants is obnoxious and ridiculous in the first place."


The benefits of these plants, specifically psychedelics, are well-documented, and, in some cases, miraculous. Take the Schedule I "drug" Ibogaine's effects on heroin addicts:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syztZcpj69U

And this was the most recent comment on that video:

I was an opiate addict for 10 years, heroin for 5. Tried methadone, waste of time, longer withdrawl, just a bit cheaper and legal is all. I had to get back on heroin just to kick the long methadone WD. Then I tried a bunch of things again.Then I discovered Ibogaine from a concerned friend. One heavy dose was all I needed no WD. And after "the awakening" I didnt crave opiates anymore. It's like it hit the reset button on my brain and NT's. Look into it now, not sure how legal is going to stay.

Coca, too, in it's natural plant form, can help curb appetite when chewed and contains many nutrients (and is much less dangerous/potent than when refined).

[defendandprotect]

76. Thank you -- Would love to hear that from a Supreme Court Judge -- !!

Never heard of Ibogaine before --

and certainly never heard that there was a plant around that would break heroin addiction.

Amazing nature!

Will save your post and look at the link soon --

:)

[robdogbucky]

90. Defend, are you really young? You don't remember Fear and Loathing?

on the Campaign Trail, 1972?


Hunter Thompson's Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail, 1972:

"Fear and Loathing: On the Campaign Trail '72 is a collection of articles covering the 1972 presidential campaign written by the gonzo journalist Hunter S Thompson and illustrated by Ralph Steadman. The articles were first serialized in Rolling Stone magazine throughout 1972 and later released as a book in early 1973.

The book focuses almost exclusively on the Democratic Party's primaries and the breakdown of the party as it splits between the different candidates. Of particular focus is the manic maneuvering of the George McGovern campaign during the Miami convention as they sought to ensure the Democratic nomination despite attempts by the Hubert Humphrey campaign and other candidates to block McGovern...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear_and_Loathing_on_the_Campaign_Trail_'72



"In 1972, journalist Hunter S. Thompson accused democratic candidate Edmund Muskie of being addicted to ibogaine in a satirical piece while covering the Wisconsin primaries of the 1972 U.S. Presidential primaries for Rolling Stone magazine. Many readers, and even other journalists, did not realize that Thompson was being facetious. The claim, of course, was completely unfounded, and Thompson himself is documented in the movie Gonzo: The Life and Work of Dr. Hunter S. Thompson discussing the self-fabricated joke of Muskie's alleged ibogaine use and his surprise that anyone actually believed the claim.<47> A 2009 feature documentary, I'm Dangerous with Love by filmmaker Michel Negroponte, covered the work of Dimitri Mugianis and his long-running underground ibogaine treatment for heroin addiction..."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibogaine



Some of us remember, as this was the only mention of Ibogaine in popular culture AFAIK, and I have been watching a long time, er, it seems like a long time sometimes. What a funny, insightful book this was. McGovern/Eagleton, oh, my! And everyone else wondering what happened to Clean Gene's momentum? See Howard Dean/John Kerry Iowa 2004. Some things really never do change.


I really miss Hunter.




rdb

[defendandprotect]

101. Missed it --

I'm radically liberal -- and a huge reader --

and understood Hunter and also can say I miss him --

but for some odd reason there are some writings that just

don't work for me --

Now that you mention it, I'll look for the book at my library next visit --


The candidates and political leaders who were a true threat to elites/corrupt government

were assassinated, imo -- or otherwise eliminated -- Chappaquidick being one example.

Wallace, RFK, MLK, Jr. - on and on.


But they also understood that you couldn't kill everyone --

And that's why I think there never was a "Southern Strategy" . . .

Only electronic voting computers.

IMO, elites/right wing understood that when they could no longer sell racism to control

the South, that there would be a civil rights movement there, as well -- feminists,

homosexuals, the poor. Racism was the cap on it all.

The computers began to come in during the late 1960's -- I'd question every election

back to Nixon/Humphrey --

Also, note the LARGE computers used by MSM came in during mid 1960's -- giving our

corporate press new powers to PREDICT and CALL elections. What we saw in 2000 was

simply a REVERSAL of those new powers.


Two journalists in Florida in the last 1960's immediately saw the unverifiable election

results and began to investigate --

They wrote a book - and they reported their findings to Larry O'Brien who was then head

of the DNC at the Watergate ... just before Watergate.



If you're interested, here's a link to

"Votescam -- The Stealing of America" --

http://www.constitution.org/vote/votescam__.htm

[drokhole]

119. If you enjoy reading (and this topic), you'll love the book...

Food of the Gods by Terence McKenna (it's where I stole that quote from):

http://www.amazon.com/Food-Gods-Original-Knowledge-Evolution/dp/0553371304

It touches on Ibogaine, but is really incredible in scope and info. Has a great perspective on our culture and what "drugs" we deem permissible, as well.

[defendandprotect]

121. OK ... made a note --

Oddly enough was at the library today and they didn't have Thompson's

"Fear and Loating on Campaign Trail" -- 8 books by him but not that one --

I'll check at Barnes & Noble next time I'm there --


:)

[obxhead]

39. The 'No Shit Sherlock' train has arrived. Again.

5 Presidents have had studies done on marijuana and it's laws. Every study has called for decriminalization at minimum and strong support for legalization and taxation of marijuana.

Every one of those Presidents have instead chosen to intensify the war on marijuana users.

[Amonester]

45. And the next 5 prez. will continue to deny reality about it until...

until everything starts collapsing all over, and we will again hear the stupid "who could have ever predicted blah-blah-blah" idiocy.

They.Never.Learn.

[DissedByBush]

40. Is it too much to hope to restore

the rights we lost during the failed war on drugs?

[Hugabear]

47. Decriminalize ALL drug use

Yes, I mean decriminalize the use of heroin, crack, crystal meth, and any other drug.

How much good are we doing by locking people up who have drug addictions? How much money are we wasting?

Instead, why not focus on rehabilitation and education?

[NOLALady]

86. Right.

How hard would it be to revamp the prisons into treatment facilities? We would need jobs for more health care providers and less jobs for prison custodians.

[Turborama]

48. Global war on drugs has 'failed' say former leaders

Source: BBC

June 02 2011 Last updated at 02:12 GMT-

The global war on drugs has "failed" according to a new report by group of politicians and former world leaders.

The Global Commission on Drug Policy report calls for the legalisation of some drugs and an end to the criminalisation of drug users.

The panel includes former UN Secretary General Kofi Annan, the former leaders of Mexico, Colombia and Brazil, and the entrepreneur Sir Richard Branson.

The White House rejected the findings, saying the report was misguided

Read more: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-13624303

[Angry Dragon]

49. I wonder who is really misguided

[Nihil]

62. The Big Pharma "advisors" to "the White House" ...

i.e., all of the bought-out sluts who are being bribed by the
pharmaceutical industry to keep putting pressure on an increasingly
spineless administration in order that their profits are not
impacted adversely.

The Best Democracy Money Can Buy!

[DumpDavisHogg]

50. Unfortunately, DU has its share of War on Drugs supporters...

...as I found out when they argued with me a few weeks back.

[ProfessorGAC]

54. There Are A Couple Of Very Strident Ones

One of them even goes so far as to making up "economic" statistics to support the anti-legalization position.
GAC

[Enthusiast]

102. Some DU people are full time employees

of the corporations standing in the way of progress.

[Hubert Flottz]

53. Don't blame Art when you jump out that window!

[rasputin1952]

55. The templates for failure are in place througout history...

The most blatant failure was Prohibition...which actually did nothing as far as consumption, sure gave organized crime a blast of energy though.

The whole "War on Drugs" notion was doomed from the start and just a few of the ramifications of this disaster has been increased law enforcement power, lack of judicial review, erosion of Civil Liberties, huge cartels that resort to violence at every turn, small dealers that resort to violence, increased thefts...the list goes on forever.

[Festivito]

56. Bu, bu, but, that will hurt industries: Cotton, Prison, the police and courts, CIA club, big oil,...

Drug industry, anti-cancer donations (What if people get fewer cancers? Huh? What happens to cancer donations! Think!)

The list is nearly endless.

Not to mention the anti-black-person voting industry. You're going to let them out, get jobs and pay taxes or something? Rather than having them safely transferring our tax dollars to the prison industry.

And, what of the cops not being able to shake people down and plant stashes on people they need to get off the streets?

Sheesh.

:sarcasm:

[Enthusiast]

103. "the anti-black-person voting industry"

This actually exists in some areas I won't mention.

[quaker bill]

57. A thing only "fails"

when its objectives are not accomplished. I don't think anyone serious truly imagined that the actual control and elimination of drug use was ever an objective that could be accomplished. I think "success" is measured in different terms here such as: number of arrests and convictions, amount of substances seized, amount of property and cash forfeited...

Some folks might imagine that these statistics are an indicator of potential social change, to this extent it has failed in that no desirable change has been produced.

It kind of resembles tax cuts for the rich, a policy that seeks a portended result that it never produces. The portended result is jobs and economic growth. What you can measure is rich people getting richer, and to this extent the policy is deemed "successful". What has not been measured is the jobs and economic growth folks said we would get from it. So, of course, the answer is we haven't done enough of it yet, because if we had, everyone would be working....

In both cases we have policy adopted as conventional wisdom that produces lots of intermediate results (arrests, cash flow to the rich) but none of the portended long term results. We might be coming close to the capitulation point on both ideas as a society, but we are still some distance from electing politicians that will act on it.

[RaleighNCDUer]

92. Yeah. And the body counts prove we won in Vietnam, too. nt

[quaker bill]

117. The point is just what is "winning"

If killing lots of VC was the point, then the body count was quite relevant. However, I recall we were looking for something different.

I am not sure that the drug war is intended to do anything more than what it is accomplishing, filling the jails and seizing property.

[Joey Liberal]

59. But the "Christians" will oppose legalization

And we don't want to offend them now, do we.

[Enthusiast]

104. Jebus said, "No smoke the dope." nt

[RainDog]

124. actually, some scholars debate whether "keneh bosem," an ingredient in anointing oil

was not cannabis rather than calamus (tho both are considered psychotropic and both have been used as traditional medicines - tho both are now illegal here.)

it would be ironic if that were the case.

if someone takes the stories of Jesus' healings as actual events - cannabis oil for the eyes - now cannabis is used for glaucoma. cannabis oil for skin disease - one guy, at the least, made a video claiming cannabis oil removed cancerous skin cells (there's a video - I don't know if it's true or not, but it's certainly worth a controlled study to have some information one way or another.)

and cannabis is now given to patients with MS in Canada because of its relief of spasticity - like the "epileptics" healed in the bible.

somehow, I don't think Jesus would make such a plant illegal. but, of course, that's b/c I would think that Jesus would approve of things that could heal and relieve suffering with little or no side effects. I mean, I think Jesus would've been more inclined to view cannabis benignly than he would've viewed, say, Rush's hillbilly heroin, oxycontin.

[Enthusiast]

125. I agree.

Having a family member casualty of hillbilly heroin I must agree. I've seen it first hand.

[RainDog]

127. I'm so sorry to hear about that

which is, again, why I think a harm reduction approach is so much better - to make treatment programs accessible to people who do not have to be casualties when options are easily available and accessible.

if cannabis were removed from drug schedules, that would also free up space in drug treatment programs for those who go through them in order to avoid harsher sentences - when they are not addicted at all - while 1% of cannabis users may exhibit signs of psychological addiction, the vast majority do not and putting them in drug treatment programs in lieu of criminal sentences just makes it harder for those with real addiction problems to get treatment.

[Enthusiast]

128. Exactly. Thank you.......nt

[RoccoR5955]

61. About freakin' time! n/t

[SHRED]

64. Too much money to stop this "war"

Profit driven prisons and law enforcement careers.
Big Cartels rolling in cash.

Hell, we can't even get hemp legally grown in the USA so how are "drugs" going to fare?

[dotymed]

65. Remember, decades ago, when our Surgeon General

said that marijuana should be decriminalized?
She was fired within days.

The PTB make too much money from it's continued criminality. The for-profit-prisons (who continually lobby against legalization), the "asset forfeiture" that allows police departments to legally blackmail and steal from our citizens,even if no charges are brought and the for-profit probation companies which sell their stocks publicly but their stocks are mainly owned by judges, lawyers and law enforcement personnel.

These are but a few "obstacles" (greed) that are in the way of legalization.

Our country is broken, it's "legal system" as well as almost any other government institution has become corrupt beyond measure. The answer is not (as the repugs who have caused most of this) to "shrink" government and keep it out of peoples lives. The solution is to fix the problems, take money out of the equation and use government to help the people (we are supposed to be the government).

IMO, it will take the "unwashed masses" to stand up for what is right. Sadly, they are mainly brainwashed by the constant propaganda they are fed by the MSM and "their" politicians.

[Javaman]

66. What and stop the cottage industry of making money off of peoples addiction?

come on, those assault rifles that the various alphabet agencies use don't pay for themselves! (or the ones that are smuggled across the border to the drug cartels)

[IDemo]

67. IDemo predicts the response from the Obama DOJ:

"We disagree with the Commission's findings and will continue to prosecute drug criminals as strongly as possible."

[sakabatou]

73. Sadly, I predict that too

[montanto]

68. That just means govt needs a "surge."

[OnionPatch]

69. Lol!

Thanks for starting my day with a laugh.

[Uncle Joe]

71. Kicked and recommended for common sense, compassion, logic and sanity.

We can either create societies; that work to build the people up for the benefit of the whole or tear them down for the sake of a sake of a few corrupted, powerful vested interests but we can't do both anymore than we can mix water and oil.

Our political leaders; need to find the courage and fortitude to make the right choices for the sake of the nation or state for which they claim to represent.

I commend the commission for their good sense and sound advice.

Thanks for the thread, Purveyor.

[sakabatou]

72. This just in: Water is wet

[FlyByNight]

74. The prison-industrial complex...

won't allow it.

[NorthCarolina]

75. I believe the high incarceration rate for marijuana use has been used

to help keep unemployment figures low, as well as creating a money pot for political donations from the for-profit prison system. I doubt the politicians are ready to let that go.

[raccoon]

And for disenfranchising many people, especially blacks. nt

[Judi Lynn]

79. 'Global war on drugs has failed'

Source: Colombia Reports

'Global war on drugs has failed'
Thursday, 02 June 2011 07:18
Marguerite Cawley

The global war on drugs has "failed" and it is time to explore the option of legalizing, according to a new commission involving former Colombian President Cesar Gaviria and various other former heads of state.

A report released Thursday morning by the Global Commission on Drug Policy opens with the statement that, "The global war on drugs has failed, with devastating consequences for individuals and societies around the world," and that "fundamental reforms in national and global drug control policies are urgently needed."

The 19-member commission includes former United Nations Secretary General Kofi Annan, former U.S. Secretary of State George Schultz, intellectuals and former heads of state of from Colombia, Mexico, Brazil and Switzerland, among others.

The report goes on to state that money spent to criminalize and punish drug use and the drug trade have "clearly failed to effectively curtail supply or consumption."

Read more: http://colombiareports.com/colombia-news/news/16698-war-on-drugs-has-failed.html

[Oceansaway]

80. k & r...nt

[Fumesucker]

81. Funny how so many politicians get so much smarter when they leave office..

Not a one of these fuckers would speak up when they actually had any power.

[AllyCat]

85. Mods, this is not LBN...we've all known this for decades

+1

[TatonkaJames]

91. Major stumbling block is..

how do they keep people from using at work ? Does anyone want a guy on a high-rise in a crane smoking a joint ?
People mixing medications. Pharmacists giving out medications. Law officers with guns !
These are the small details they have to figure out. Anyway, they could say they will legalize it tomorrow and it would
take another three decades to figure out who gets to run it, produce it, etc. It's been years in NJ since they said OK, and
still they haven't one store. And you have to be dying to be qualified. So this story is nothing more than wishful thinking.

[musiclawyer]

93. It's not that hard

There are tests that detect impairment, just like alcohol.
If the crane guy or cop shows up high he gets remved and fired just like a drunk. Geez.

Pharmacists can ask, "have you smoked or eaten cannabis recently."

Here out west, we know who produces for medical The same people would producwe legal anfd the underground would come above ground.

Kills me that people overcomplicate the most simple aspects. The hard part is getting a workable and efficacious structure for taxation. That is hard, because lawyers who write the laws will always try to placate the politicians and special interests who often have competing interests.

[TatonkaJames]

109. Not sure it's that simple

Working at a large pharma corp for 20 years, they used to test annually for drugs, now they don't at all because of lawsuits that
were filed for false positives. So how do they test millions upon millions of people showing up for work each day ? And after they
return from lunch break ?

[Enthusiast]

106. How is that a stumbling block?

Employee drug testing is nearly universal, now.

[Taverner]

112. Actually, its going down. HP completely stopped the practice..

And many more are following suit.

The reason? It costs too much, and it serves no good.

[msider]

96. shocked!

[texshelters]

97. Failed?

It succeeded well for military contractors, right-wing ideologues and the prison-industrial complex, thank you very much.

And people blame the desperately unemployed for our budget crisis when corporate criminals are stealing from us under the guise of security.

Peace,
Tex Shelters

[get the red out]

98. Absolutely!!!!

If only honesty were allowed in politics, but no, pandering must prevail.

This is such a no brainier, and so many lives are lost in this "war on drugs", and the prisons filled. It's all just a disgusting exercise in futility.

[Enthusiast]

99. I have no confidence that

our elected representatives would do this right. Our representation (why even call it 'ours'?) is in the pockets of big pharma and will vote accordingly. Take the restrictions on re-importation of prescriptions drugs for example. Why is the Democratic Party silent on this ridiculous state of affairs?

[gbscar]

105. I believe drugs themselves are poison, but the drug war is both criminal and incompetent

As a result, I support the conclusions of this panel and hope that one day we will see the end of prohibition.

This isn't merely about marijuana, mind you, and only legalizing that drug would be a misleading "victory" in the long run, but it's certainly a start. The entire problem needs to be addressed using a different approach.

Drugs should be handled on a case by case basis, using medical and scientific regulations instead of criminal punishment and repression, to say nothing of all the direct and indirect effects the drug war has had, ruining individuals, families and even societies around the world, including both Mexico and Colombia among many other places.

Yes, certainly some people in those countries and in the U.S. itself profit from keeping up this pretense -including several corrupt officials, corporations and politicians- but I'm way more concerned about the passive masses who allow this to continue out of a misguided sense of morality.

I don't use drugs and certainly don't want anyone in my family to do so, but this isn't the right solution.

[RZM]

108. It will take a long time and will have to happen in stages

First medical marijuana, then decriminalization of small amounts. I'm not sure we can hope for anything more than that in the near future, but that would be wonderful progress in and of itself. After those things happen and the sky doesn't fall, maybe more steps can be seriously considered. I'll be happy if we see ANY progress on this.

[DiverDave]

111. Move along, nothing to see here

fuck the bastards, they will keep it going.

[SpiralHawk]

115. Legalize and tax - use common sense

Prohibition is a prescription for FAIL (R).

[Shining Jack]

118. Most people know that it failed...

Most cops consider going after MJ users and in some cases providers as a waste of their time. What a stupid load of crap. It's the freaking 21st century not the dark ages dammit.