Fighting marijuana use: White House official offers detailed plans

[DreamSmoker]

Source: So.Cal Daily Bullietin

ONTARIO - The battleground against marijuana in the United States has turned to public lands and especially California state parks where most of the growth is occurring, said Tommy LaNier, director of the National Marijuana Initiative for the White House Office of National Drug Control Policy.

Last year, drug officials throughout the US eradicated $10.3 million dollars worth of marijuana. About 75 percent of that came from California, said LaNier, who was the keynote speaker Tuesday at the second annual Southern California Substance Abuse and Violence Policy Conference.

"California is the source for the country and Mexico," he said. "We got to get them off our public lands."

In order to eradicate the problem, LaNier

Read more: http://www.dailybulletin.com/ci_18274627?source=rss_viewed

---

I am on this crap when I see and read it...
Its just mind blowing the tactics the Federal Government is coming up with to prosecute Americans
and eradicate Cannabis...
This is a smoke screen to cover Obamas ass and his promise never to use the Justice Department...
What a Leader.... I am pissed for being lied to again.....
It just never moves forward with these ignorantly Righteous Folks...
This just adds fire to me and the fight to stop this insanity....

[ixion]

1. End the drug 'war'... now

[Taverner]

64. +1000 to the 1000th power

[fredamae]

2. It's the fact that PROHIBITION Exists!!!

Prohibition Laws Drive The Market, Period! They Know it! Follow the money! Who's getting Rich from KEEPING Cannabis Prohibited?

Obama is "smarter than a foot" and this kind of policy and publicity actually shines a spot light on his decisions, corporate favoribility and ain't fooling anybody. He cannot "cover his ass" unless and until he follows through with what he promised as Candidate Obama...Remember all that "We Will Use Science" crap?
If he had, we wouldn't be "here" now...with another Few Billion annually dedicated toward Cannabis Eradication programs Only!

Is it worth it? Is this a Fiscally responsible expenditure?

[subject]

7. cali weed

10.3 million $ Worth of NoCal marijuana? That's a drop in the bucket relative to the rest of the country's marijuana use which is easily 1 billion $/year. My opinion- 3-4 billion a year.....And that's a black market.

Plus a lot of police a/o prosecutors use the roots and sometimes the dirt that the plant was growing in when they weigh it in order to increase the amount and raise the penalty so they can bulk up their cases. So 10.3 gets even smaller. Propganda

[Bennyboy]

13. The math of CA POT...

2005 population: 36,132,147

10% of CA residents smoke= 3,612,314 people puff in CA (a very LOW figure I think)

3,612,314 smoke an eight of weed a week. (another low figure)= 187,840,328 1/8ths a year to supply the pot smokers.

23,480,041 ounces or 1,467,502.5625 pounds per year, juut for CA. And at an average of one pound per plant (yes I know some outdoor plants can do five pounds but most indoor grows are lucky to yield a pound per). that means that almost 1.5 millions plants need to be grown in CA just to supply the state.

Of course the pop figure is around 40% I think now and most people puff a LOT more than 1/8 oz a week (that is how much I puff though)

[Solomon]

19. That was my first thought too. A drop in the bucket.

[bullpit]

74. In North Carolina The Dept of Revenue

gets involved. The cops weigh the plant or plants they take and then send the info to the D of R. You then get a bill for the taxes in the mail if you're not in jail, according to how much the plants weighed. All this is done even if it's just one plant in a pot in your backyard and you wouldn't believe how much that one plant will weigh !! Lots of room for abuse here...especially in the good ole boy south. A $2500 dollar surcharge is added to the overall bill if the tax isn't payed within 48 hours of the arrest. Most folks never see it coming because they're unaware of the tax in the first place. To add insult to injury...the arresting agency is awarded 75% of the assessed tax from the D of R. That's just too much incentive for abusing the system. Of course the local DA and even defense attorneys are all in on the scam. A thoroughly disgusting situation, but again...no big surprise coming from the south.

[AlbertCat]

132. no big surprise coming from the south.

Because in all other parts of the country, they never abuse laws... especially involving drugs.


:eyes:

[Oxy Contin]

17. Who's getting Rich from KEEPING Cannabis Prohibited?

Umm, the growers.

[fredamae]

18. ......And ? Think bigger----

The Prison Industrial Complex
LE Budgets
Beer/Alcohol/Spirits Industries
BigPHRMA
Drug Treatment and Testing Facilities
Drug Testing Mfg
Lobbyists/Lawmakers supporting them.
I know there are more...

[pscot]

25. +1

[wovenpaint]

31. Oh yes, and add Dupont (nylon ) aka chemical industry

Monsanto...because they've included industrial hemp in this prohibition, too. :grr:

[RKP5637]

69. Yep, exactly what's going on. This country is soooo F'ed it's unbelievable. The propaganda

runs soooo deep we're drowning in it ... With the decisions made by the US there is no way we're going to be a 21st century leader.

[cleanhippie]

50. And there it is. Exactly.

[Blacksheep214]

84. We have a winner!!!

The Prison Industrial Complex

This is the ultimate in 'follow the money'!

Prison labor pays a dollar a day and the big corporations rake it in. That's besides the bill for being a private for profit prison.

Is this the land of the free and the home of the brave or the land of the imprisoned and the home of cowards?

Retirement is a few years off yet but I am seriously thinking of getting the hell out of this gulag!

[RKP5637]

103. IMO 10 years or less from now this is going to be one hellhole. I wish I could

get out but I can't. This is probably the best now. When it all caves in financially because of all the stupid crap this country spends money on then all of the services remaining that help people as in a civilized nation will be gone. I though 2008 would bring better times for all, but I think it's eroding.

[fredamae]

128. Well that's not All

Yes, prisoners are paid, tho in some cases $1.00 a day is a high wage---but the Prisons also get about $3000.00 Per Head, Per Month from us, the tax payer.

Then as our "slaves in confinement" make Shirts, Jeans, telemarketing etc and getting "paid"-The prisons KEEP as much as 80% of those earnings to "cover rm & board".
Plus the Profits from the goods sold that the prisoners made.

One case I heard about was the jeans that were produced by prisoners earning $.80 PH, were sold by the Prisons to Boutiques and then marked up to $350.00 per pair for retail.

[lonestarnot]

92. How many prisons in the U.S. are currently overcrowded to the cruel and unusual punishment point now

due to overcrowding?

[RKP5637]

105. The way this place is headed we're going to have more people in

prison and concentration camps than free. Of course what we have now isn't really free. We really live in a form of a police state as it is. The surveillance is ever increasing and many Americans are too F'en stupid to get what going on. This is how it happens. One freedom given up after another, and eventually people will say WTF and then it's too late.


:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

[fredamae]

126. Every 37 Seconds in America there is an arrest for Cannabis!

This clogs up the courts, LE (law enforcement)FTE(time), Ruins peoples lives and for what?

What do the Laws, Rules and Policies that govern Cannabis protect us/society From?

[Lorien]

127. Don't forget Big Timber, who lobbies to lump industrial hemp in with cannabis

which is like lumping shiitake mushrooms in with those that are hallucinogenic. The lobbyists always win.

[sarcasmo]

136. +2

[Bennyboy]

26. The COPS< DA's, Lawyers, probation, bail bonds, revenue collections

and all the rest of the Gov't stuff that is paid by the taxpayers.

The growers, in CA anyway, are starting to come around to the idea of legal pot. They are getting it that they can get loans, buy vehicles, tractors etc like every other farmer does now. They can form co-ops, use brokers etc to keep prices constant.

A lot of them were reluctant to deal with the MMJ situation but now are finding legal ways to do that and market their product. And because it is easy to grow crap but very difficult to grow A Grade they are able to keep the price high on premium pot.

[Yavapai]

29. Meet Your New Pot Dealer: Big Pharma

Read at http://www.salem-news.com/articles/june032011/cannabis-pharma.php

Very interesting!

[Badsam]

43. Way to think small,

How about the alcohol industry and the pharmacuetical companies, they have the most to loose if people are medicating themselves? Focus!!!!!!!

[Oxy Contin]

75. Well I am a pill, so what do you expect

[RKP5637]

101. I hate to say it, but I've pretty much given up on Obama. In many ways

he's as bad as the rest of them. We're just going in one fucken circle in this country. It's getting so I know far more people disappointed with this administration than pleased. There aren't many speaking for the people anymore.

[Vanje]

3. /./.

Asshats!

[krabigirl]

4. Why is it any of the federal government's business if an individual chooses to use cannabis?

Even more disgusting when this crap comes from democrats.

[RKP5637]

107. Exactly! And it's because control freaks want to tell everyone exactly what

to do from cannabis right down to the privacy of your bedroom. And some of the democrats are right in the thick of it. Some of them are just the same as republicans. I'm getting really disgusted with all of it anymore. I know other countries are horrible, but the US is really getting to be one control freak place.

[krabigirl]

144. Yep, I am also very, very sick of it.

[AngryAmish]

5. 1, marijuana should be legal

2. It should not be grown on public land. I can't put a golf course in Yellowstone and you should not be allowed to grow pot either.

[obxhead]

8. If it was legal nobody would be growing it on public land.

Seizure laws are what drive growers to public lands.

[AngryAmish]

14. There will be always be lawbreakers, but your point is correct

Would pot plants get stolen if it was grown like corn? How would you protect the fields from theives?

[liberation]

45. Yes, they would be stolen

just like people raid all those corn fields in Nebraska, oh wait....

[jtuck004]

6. Wish they would fight unemployment as vigorously.... n/t

[nonperson]

9. Their war on drugs does fight unemployment

It creates countless jobs for DEA officers, police, judges, lawyers, guards, etc.

[Hugabear]

97. Not to mention the fact that it fights homelessness

By giving millions of Americans a nice cozy cot and three square meals per day. :sarcasm:

[fredamae]

16. Est $51,000,000,000.00 Annually Wasted Toward

the Failed WoD's. What a difference it would make IF this money were invested for Unemployment and Job Development Programs instead!
$2,000,000,000,000.00 invested in a proven Failed, ineffective program during the last 40 years.
But that's just chump change when you look at Iraq, Afghanistan and lots of other "wars/defense".
I disagree with the wisdom behind such irresponsible and expensive policies.

[liberation]

38. LOL

zing

[RKP5637]

109. EXACTLY!!! WELL SAID!!! This marijuana thing is a cop out to say hey, look,

we're really doing something. It's ALL smoke and mirrors to try to mask the problems this county has. We're going in one circle.

[PufPuf23]

10. LaNier is an idiot and is self-justifying spouting crap.

From the article at the link:

"Tommy LaNier, the director of the National Marijuana Initiative, talks about drug policy Tuesday at the Southern California Substance Abuse and Violence Policy Conference at the Ontario Convention Center. (Jennifer Cappuccio Maher/Staff Photographer)said his department has focused on disrupting their market. An operation with 500,000 plants can generate at least $1 billion, he said.
Domestic cultivation of the plant far exceeds all marijuana secured across the border, by about three times, LaNier said.

Officials first attempted to stop the distribution of the plants by tightening the ports and borders. As a result, drug cartels have moved their operations stateside, often setting up deep in the forest, LaNier said.

But progress has been made, several operations in Northern California were dissimilated in the last year, he said.

"We are starting to turn the corner," LaNier said.

The goal, he said, is to force those organization to indoor grow houses which can be easier to discover and prosecute growers."

A 500,000 plant "grow" would be essentially a 250 acre clearcut in forest or other wildlands and require a significant water system and labor. Such a "grow" would be impossible to hide and require other large infrastructure. There has never been a bust of a "grow" anywhere near that size in California. There has never been a bust of a "true" Mexican "drug cartel" pot plantation in California within a State or Federal Park or National Forest.

The largest "grow" I have ever seen was behind locked gates on corporate timberland and the plants were dispersed and maybe 1000 plants maximum (note I found this while on the job and reported it to the landowner and my employer and that was 20 years ago; ironically, I was assigned to do a 3rd party review for a bank holding a mortgage on the 100,000 acre plus property that was rife with "grows", present and past, and was instructed by my employer and the landowner to ignore and not tell the bank).

Local Fed employees were told this year that they could be fired even if a spouse was found to be following California medical marijuana laws (that allow possession, limited plants, and access to dispensories).

Pacific Gas and Electric just this month installed "Smart Meters" where I live "deep in the forest".

[tiny elvis]

53. The goal, he said, is to (prosecute more growers).

just a lawman doing his job

[zogofzorkon]

11. Interested parties should sit down and hash it out. n/t

[Hardrada]

37. They prefer just to blow smoke and do nothing.

[XemaSab]

49. Or pass it to the left...

[yodermon]

12. is jury nullification the only route left?

[RainDog]

15. one example of doublespeak

"More teens are now using marijuana and prescription drugs rather than any other drug, he said."

-- okay. what's the breakdown on that? marijuana and prescription drugs are two different things but Kerlikowske doesn't distinguish between the two - or maybe he needs the two to score propaganda points for this group.

Kerlikowske urged attendees to continue their mission to end drug use.

"Your efforts will help our country thrive for generations to come," he said.

--funny - going on 40 years of the war on drugs and yet more teens use (is it marijuana or ritalin or what) than before.

seems like we've had a generation of failure on this issue - a generation of hypocrisy - a generation of wasted tax payer dollars, wasted lives - unless, of course, you were lucky like Obama and didn't get arrested for using or you were lucky, like Mitch Daniels, and got a minimum sentence for dealing marijuana and other drugs - including, it seems, illegally-acquired prescription drugs.

will our country thrive after the pharmaceutical cos can legally sell whole-plant based cannabis pills? will this be the end of a generation or civilization as we know it? how has civilization managed to continue with 5000 years of cannabis use?

I wish we'd start a war on lies in govt.

[AndyTiedye]

98. A Huge Number of Teens are Using Prescription Drugs BECAUSE THEIR DOCTOR PRESCRIBED THEM

[AndyTiedye]

20. The Drug War is Even More of a Sacred Cow Than Social Security Is

:grr:

[earcandle]

21. An acquaintance of mine said that a lot of people who are homeless are now living in state parks.

And that the government isn't doing much about it because
there are masses of people gathering, growing food, building
shelters.  The public land belongs to the people.  I hope this
isn't a way to fund security forces to go in and upset the
lives of the already upset. 

That would be cruel. 

[RKP5637]

110. Probably they will do with them what they did with the indians, well, then

the blacks, then the Mexicans, now the poor, the sick, the aged. This crap really PO's me. This country needs to get back to fundamentals. In fact, I think we should start drug testing the drug enforcers.

[Bigmack]

22. White House official says:...

"We think we've found yet another issue in which we can oppose the general sentiment in the US. We want to make sure there's no connect between this White House and any progressive thinking or actions. We are trying soooo hard to piss off as many people as possible, and if not piss them off, at least make them feel we're irrelevant."

[RKP5637]

111. I will vote, but damn the irritation of this administration makes me feel like

saying WTF. One thing, not one penny is going toward 2012. One billion for a F'en election is enough. Absolutely ridiculous. Anyway, it's clear to me no politician needs my help. Corporations run this country now. It's now been totally sold to corporate interests, banksters and wall street.

[krabigirl]

145. I will vote my conscience. That is all.

[Le Taz Hot]

23. Prohibiting people from growing pot on public lands

is one issue, cannabus prohibition is quite another and they're trying to justify the latter with the former. While it is true that the Mexican Cartels are using the Sierra Nevada to grow illicit crop, all the while despoiling the land by clearing it and using fertilizers, pesticides, etc., the bogus War on Drugs provides a market for those same cartels.

[RaleighNCDUer]

24. Last year, drug officials throughout the US eradicated $10.3 million dollars worth of marijuana.

Is that all? Out of a 6 billion dollar crop?

Not very good at their job, are they?

[Bennyboy]

28. And spent 6 billion doing it.

Or what is the budget for pot eradication?

[RKP5637]

68. A lot of people are making big bucks off this stupid prohibition. Meanwhile lives are

wasted, people suffer, and crime and the black market thrive. Yet another asinine thing this country does.

[liberation]

39. When you realize that many more people's lives have been destroyed by the so-called "war on drugs"

than by the drugs themselves. You start to understand that they are not interested in our well fare whatsoever, but rather they use our welfare as an excuse to do what they always do: privatize public institutions and turn our private lives public.


I am not claiming drugs are harmless. But if our welfare was their priority, they would be spending all that money in education, prevention, and treatment, rather than prosecution.

[Vinca]

27. If they allowed people to grow their own on their own land it would

keep it out of public parks and stop the waste of taxpayer dollars paying cops to look for it.

[wordpix]

33. +1000

[russspeakeasy]

30. The whitehouse should save it's "fight" for something meaningful.

The drug war is a joke.

[iwishiwas]

65. Yes, like living wage jobs.

[russspeakeasy]

120. exactly..

[CrossChris]

129. This is meaningful to them. Why should jobs for us be meaningful to them. They're not here to help

They're in DC to control, not help us.

[wordpix]

32. NO ONE should be using public lands for private mj growing or any other private use

without a well scrutinized permit.

There are more than enough private uses on public lands that ruin them: mining, clear cutting, grazing, and other uses (I believe even land developers can build homes now on public lands). The problem is our "public" lands are more and more getting into private hands. Whether that is for mj growing or "other," it's a problem.

If marijuana were legalized, it would be grown on private property, where it should be grown. But on public lands, NO!

[Vinnie From Indy]

44. I guess you are unaware of the Mining Law of 1872?

The fact is that for over one hundred years, private industry has raped and pillaged our "public lands". In addition, the Mining Law of 1872 is still in force and allows corporations to extract all manner of minerals out of the ground without paying a pittance in royalties to the federal treasury.

[wordpix]

123. did you read all of my post? Apparently NO - I already likened growing mj on pub. lands to mining +

logging, grazing and other private extractive industries on public lands.

They are ALL a problem.

[blackspade]

34. I'm more disgusted with the Obama administration

every day.
No amount of buckling to corporate interests seems to be below them.

Hemp (and MJ) were outlawed in the 1930s at the behest of DuPont and it only continues today.
Now the players are different and of broader scope.
In the 30s it was all about the paper industry, now it is Big Pharma, the prison industry, law enforcement, and more, fighting against science and common sence to keep MJ illegal.

It's just stupid and short sighted from a supposedly progressive administration.

[Action]

35. Here to stay

They will never be able to get rid of pot. It's always been here and it always will be. Folks have moved inside to grow it. What a total waste of our law enforcement.

[SpankMe]

36. There's an inconsistent thought in there...

"More teens are now using marijuana and prescription drugs rather than any other drug, he said."

This flies in the face of the anti-herb Nazis' assertion that weed is a gateway drug to the hard stuff. Shouldn't we be seeing increased us of hard drugs if the gateway theory were true? Instead, he seems to be saying that people are staying with marijuana and the use is growing.

[eShirl]

40. Cut the War On Drugs, not Medicare.

[theaocp]

41. Obama couldn't care less about cannabis.

It's not that going after growers/MMJ users/whatnot is right or wrong. He just doesn't give a shit. Oh, and there aren't the votes, even if he did. We'll have to wait until 99.9% of the populace favors regulation and/or we look like fucking Mexico before he'll consider this worthy of his time. Whattaguy.

[bamacrat]

42. He's really losing me :(.

I am a big supporter of Obama, I donated to his campaign as I'm sure many of you did. I hate to say it but he is losing me. Of course I'll vote for him because he is a Democrat but shit. I just hope that in his second term he does what he wants. I mean with no chance of re-election why not push some stuff through that he privately believes in...like decriminalizing/legalizing weed, end tax cuts for the rich, reopen relations with Cuba, and cutting the defense budget by either withdrawing fully from Iraq and Afghanistan and or closing antiquated military bases like Germany or Japan.

He just needs to do what his constituents want, what the people that actually will vote for him want. The other side will never vote for him, so why bend over backwards to do what they want.

Kind of a douche move if you ask me.

[RKP5637]

113. He's lost me and everyone I know. I'll vote, they'll vote, but

I am not at all enthusiastic about Obama. I wish we had some good contenders for the primary.

[placton]

46. again, promise made, promise broken!

It's the Obama Way!

[orleans]

47. yeah, with everything going on regarding unemployment

and underemployment and lack of health care in this country this shit is REALLY IMPORTANT and URGENT and NECESSARY: WE MUST DESTROY ALL THE MARIJUANA NOW!!!

(give me a fucking break!)

[nonperson]

48. THIS is the focus?

Priorities are totally fucked up in this country and this administration.

[riverbendviewgal]

51. Is the government going to eradicate the guns

that go to Mexico from America?..Mexico sends a lot of cannabis to America.

I remember reading a very long time ago the speech to his lawyer convention William Buckley gave...He said the war on drugs was lost and that it is a money maker for lawyers, prisons and law enforcement.

http://old.nationalreview.com/12feb96/drug.html


I have given up on America...and Canada....both are going so right wing....I think we better start planning ahead so we can survive the craziness and restrictive governments that are coming.

[do me baby]

52. Thank you Obama -- keep it illegal

Dangerous strains of pot (2.0) cause paranoia, ER trips. This ain't granpa's weed. Thank you Obama for spearheading this issue.

[Bluenorthwest]

54. Post any form of link to back up your absurd claims...any at all.

Sad, old, tired, right wing idiocy.

[LoveIsNow]

56. +1

Sounds like hearsay to me.

[Betsy Ross]

115. I keep searching for that evil weed. n/t

[tiny elvis]

55. oceans of *2.0* white widow on crack growing in our forests

millions of pounds flowing into our streets and homes
where can i get this magically dangerous herb?
we are swimming in dirtweed in my part of the country
spearheads and war, peoples

[unionworks]

61. Yeah, thanks, Obama...

for keeping the murdering cartels in the big money. Now I know why Jesse Jackson saw red during one of your speeches.

[theaocp]

62. Absolutely nothing but lies.

Fraudulent horseshit.

[nebenaube]

67. Ha you fool!

Back up your ludicrous claims.

[martymar64]

76. Enjoy your stay, Nark!

[RainDog]

77. you are either lying or misinformed

this bullshit about "pot 2.0" does not fly here.

they tried this same sort of propaganda in Great Britain and it hasn't worked there, either.

[Starboard Tack]

78. You actually have a point, but the wrong solution

It ain't grandpa's weed, right, and whiskey ain't bud light. One's for sipping and one's for guzzling. The reason pot is so powerful today compared to the commercial Mexican of yesteryear is because of prohibition. Growers have been forced indoors and have consequently developed more potent strains to offset the overheads. The result is excellent pot, custom highs with less smoke inhalation. Unfortunately, the indoor growing industry has a higher carbon footprint.
Best solution for everyone is to decriminalize all drugs and spend a tiny fraction of the budget now being spent on the "War on Drugs", on health issues stemming from the minority of users who abuse.

[RainDog]

86. is that what happens with marinol, too?

marinol is 100% THC.

do people end up in the emergency room and all that because they used doctor-prescribed marinol?

According to the federal government's own data, the average THC in domestically grown marijuana – which comprises the bulk of the US market – is less than 5%, a figure that has remained unchanged for nearly a decade. In the 1980s, by comparison, the THC content averaged around 3%.

http://www.drugpolicy.org/facts/drug-facts/marijuana

the person who is making the false claim, above, should check out these articles:

ElSohly, et al., “Potency Trends of Delta9-THC and Other Cannabinoids in Confiscated Marijuana from 1980-1997,” Journal of Forensic Sciences 45 (2000): 24-30.

Heishman SJ, Stitzer ML, Yingling JE, 1989. “Effects of tetrahydrocannabinol content on marijuana smoking behavior, subjective reports, and performance.” Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences, Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine, Baltimore, MD.

King LA, Carpentier C, Griffiths P. “Cannabis potency in Europe.” Addiction. 2005 Jul; 100(7):884-6

[Starboard Tack]

89. I doubt too many Marinol users end up in the ER

unless they take a hell of a lot at one time. It may be 100% THC but the highest dosage is 10mg. One gram of average pot contains 50mg.

[RainDog]

91. where are you getting your stats?

just like to check them for myself.

[Starboard Tack]

108. The stats

Capsules for oral administration: MARINOL (dronabinol) Capsules is supplied as round, soft gelatin capsules containing either 2.5 mg, 5 mg, or 10 mg dronabinol. Each MARINOL (dronabinol) Capsule strength is formulated with the following inactive ingredients: 2.5 mg capsule contains gelatin, glycerin, sesame oil, and titanium dioxide; 5 mg capsule contains iron oxide red and iron oxide black, gelatin, glycerin, sesame oil, and titanium dioxide; 10 mg capsule contains iron oxide red and iron oxide yellow, gelatin, glycerin, sesame oil, and titanium dioxide.
http://www.rxlist.com/marinol-drug.htm

The 50mg per gram of pot is based on 5% potency.

[RainDog]

118. thanks!

so how does that translate into what/how someone consumes cannabis - based upon stats of avg users for medical and recreational purposes, I wonder.

[RainDog]

93. I've been looking for confirmation of your stats but haven't found a source yet

I would really appreciate it if you could share your source of information.

the reason that marinol, rather than cannabis, would be more of a problem for the things that person mentions is because the reason for the scare is the changes in percentages of THC v. CBD in cannabis.

since marinol has no CBD, the effects that person mentioned would be more likely to be present in someone consuming marinol - and since the rate of THC in avg. cannabis, according to the real-regarded Drug Policy Alliance gives a percentage per that would seem to contradict your claim, I'm interested in looking into this information you've shared.

thanks.

[Starboard Tack]

112. See post 108

[fredamae]

137. The Medicine is the WHOLE Plant

"Marinol" is 100% THC, it's Synthesized and the one compound in Cannabis that causes the "high".

In general it is cost prohibitive and many patients have adverse reactions.
Cannabis in it's natural, whole plant form is the safest medicine known to man. Period.
It is safer than aspirin. The LD50 is 1-20,000-40,000.
Aspirin's LD50 is about 1-20.

The DEA's Own ALJ, in 1988 issued this decision regarding Cannabis:

"3. The most obvious concern when dealing with drug safety is
the possibility of lethal effects. Can the drug cause death?

4. Nearly all medicines have toxic, potentially lethal
effects. But marijuana is not such a substance. There is no record in
the extensive medical literature describing a proven, documented
cannabis-induced fatality.

- 56 -


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

5. This is a remarkable statement. First, the record on
marijuana encompasses 5,000 years of human experience. Second, marijuana
is now used daily by enormous numbers of people throughout the world.
Estimates suggest that from twenty million to fifty million Americans
routinely, albeit illegally, smoke marijuana without the benefit of
direct medical supervision. Yet, despite this long history of use and
the extraordinarily high numbers of social smokers, there are simply no
credible medical reports to suggest that consuming marijuana has caused a
single death.

6. By contrast aspirin, a commonly used, over-the-counter
medicine, causes hundreds of deaths each year.

7. Drugs used in medicine are routinely given what is called
an LD-50. The LD-50 rating indicates at what dosage fifty percent of
test animals receiving a drug will die as a result of drug induced
toxicity. A number of researchers have attempted to determine
marijuana's LD-50 rating in test animals, without success. Simply
stated, researchers have been unable to give animals enough marijuana to
induce death.

8. At present it is estimated that marijuana's LD-50 is around
1:20,000 or 1:40,000. In layman terms this means that in order to induce
death a marijuana smoker would have to consume 20,000 to 40,000 times as
much marijuana as is contained in one marijuana cigarette. NIDA-supplied
marijuana cigarettes weigh approximately .9 grams. A smoker would
theoretically have to consume nearly 1,500 pounds of marijuana within
about fifteen minutes to induce a lethal response.

9. In practical terms, marijuana cannot induce a lethal
response as a result of drug-related toxicity.

- 57 -


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

10. Another common medical way to determine drug safety is
called the therapeutic ratio. This ratio defines the difference between
a therapeutically effective dose and a dose which is capable of inducing
adverse effects.

11. A commonly used over-the-counter product like aspirin has a
therapeutic ratio of around 1:20. Two aspirins are the recommended dose for adult patients. Twenty times this dose, forty aspirins, may cause a
lethal reaction in some patients, and will almost certainly cause gross
injury to the digestive system, including extensive internal bleeding."
http://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis_law1-1.shtml

[frylock]

87. not you again..

what the fuck is pot 2.0 anyway?! didn't you learn your lesson the last time you got your ass handed to you?

[RainDog]

88. 2.0

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1304220

[frylock]

96. you just blew my mind!!

probably a result of the purple trainwreck 2.0.1.1.3.

[RainDog]

99. go back. look closelier...

:)

(that's my favorite two words, evah, from south park in the story about the hare club for men)

[bvar22]

94. Weren't you here just the other day with a different screen name,

..spamming DU with that same old Reefer Madness propaganda?
.
.
.
Don't forget,
Smokin Weed will cause men to grow breasts!!!! :scared:
:hippie:

[girl gone mad]

102. Save me, big daddy government!1

I'm skeeeered!

[blackspade]

106. Fail.

I've been seeing more and more of this '2.0' bullshit around here.

[Patchuli]

116. What "ER trips" are you referring to?????

Never met anyone who went to the ER for puffing a j. Ridiculous. If you make statements like that, back them up.

[Occulus]

117. I accidentally fed the troll's corpse.

Good thing I didn't use Worcestershire sauce.

[DiverDave]

119. HUH??

Really?
Man, I gotta go score...

[fredamae]

130. Prove It! n/t

[PuppetGubment]

57. great, empower the mex drug cartels more?

they know what this will do to drug trafficking from mexico! they have to. are they REALLY that stupid? must some money influence here!

[radhika]

58. Holder Needs Something to Do.....

After all, after CLOSE SCRUTINY nothing illegal was found in:

Bush/Cheney war crimes
Illegal surveillance - then and now
Election fraud
Iraq/Afghanistan corruption
Military constractors billings
Banking scandals
Wall Street operations


Yessir, all signs point to those national parks and free-booters that don't pay dues to Pharma.

[LetTimmySmoke]

59. End the War on Pot. End it FUCKING NOW.

Let people grow outside legally, and you won't have it grown in the parks anymore.

[Name removed]

60. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[existentialist]

63. talk about a place where they could cut the budget . . .

[RKP5637]

66. I've been disappointed with a lot of things, this is just one more. If primaries

were held with real alternatives I would vote differently this time around. I don't particularly care for his administration and feel I'm taken for granted as a captive audience because the alternatives are so dreadful. If I wanted a R for an administration I would have voted that way.

[OwnedByFerrets]

70. What a fucking waste of tax dollars...not at the level of using them

to kill innocent children, but damn, get a fucking grip WH.

[rbnyc]

71. In the meantime...

“Since the US led invasion of Afghanistan in October 2001, the Golden Crescent opium trade has soared” (Chossudovsky). Reports concluded that since the invasion of Afghanistan, where almost all of the world’s supply originates, heroin is now more available and cheaper. ..."

http://theredphoenixapl.org/2011/06/01/the-global-drug-trade-a-case-for-afghanistan-withdrawal/



I'm not really worried about my son someday smoking some pot. I AM really worried about raising my son in an environment where fatal heroin overdoses have more than doubled in 4 years.

[Canuckistanian]

79. +1

And yet, the #1 priority is the leaf of a naturally growing plant which needs no processing whatsoever.

[FreeBillClinton]

72. Illegal because corporations don't profit

[merkins]

82. Illegal because corporations Do profit

http://www.presstv.ir/usdetail/180860.html">US banks involved in money laundering operation for Mexican mafia

[Betsy Ross]

73. I apologize

But FUCK that. I have refused to donate to the DNC until DADT is history. Perhaps our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters will join us in a boycott until the attacks on Marijuana users stop, at the very least the attacks in states with MM laws.

[Canuckistanian]

83. No apologies necessary

This is a Kafkaesque situation. Medical marijuana is a PROVEN treatment, yet it's treated as if it's in the same class as heroin.

Actually, it's treated as if it's even worse than heroin.

[fredamae]

141. I have long thought that! MMJ Patients do experience

similar civil rights violations.

[dana_b]

80. what a waste of time & money

I am hardly surprised though.

[bemildred]

81. Incoherent babble.

Reminds me of Bush.

[BobTheSubgenius]

85. $10.3 MILLION??? That's NOTHING.

I live in British Columbia, which has a population of about 5,000,000. BC Business magazine estimated the cannabis industry here at $7.5 BILLION.

So US eradication efforts have managed something over 1\10 of 1% of the cannabis in a jurisdiction of 5,000,000...a population about 62% of that of New York City. Man, they must be proud.

[SfromCanada]

140. Yes, and did you see

all those potheads on the rampage in Vancouver because the wrong team won the Stanley Cup? It was an outrage.

Oh, wait...

[Corruption Winz]

90. Honestly, I'm in favor of legalizing ALL drugs...

But if you're going to leave one alone and deal with bigger issues, marijuana is that one. I mean, if ever there was a victimless crime, this would certainly fit that bill.

This is how they use OUR tax dollars....

[RKP5637]

100. Yep, follow the money trail. Too many people are getting rich off the war on

drugs propaganda and effort. If it weren't so profitable it would stop. It's ridiculous and especially the criminalization of marijuana.

I'm really starting to give up anymore. The lack of brains in this country is appalling. It's just one constant battle with the stupid, the ignorant and the control freaks.

[SHRED]

95. Only dopes wage war on weed!!!

[inwiththenew]

104. I feel safer already

:eyes:

[Harry J Asslinger]

114. Marijuana...

It is a dangerous drug; an insidious narcotic that makes murderers of mellow men and nymphomaniacs of the most supple of housewives. One puff all but relegates a poor soul to eternal limbo.







In seriousness, a drug-free society? They may as well be charged with stopping our motion about the Sun. This Prohibition by another name must end. The proportions it has grown to is staggering.

[paparush]

121. One of the factors that ended Prohibition was falling income tax during the Depression.

The govt needed the alcohol taxes. This was one of the driving factors to repeal the failed Prohibition.

Sounds familiar...

[Festivito]

122. Can't let Americans be free, they might start to like it...

again.

[Dutchmaster]

124. So you think people should be able to . . .

. . . just do whatever they want to with public land and state parks, regardless of the law?

Talk about some self-righteous BS. What gives someone the right to just go out and plant a bunch of drugs in a state park? THIS is what you're mad about? Really?

I can't speak of CA, but here in MO, in the Ozarks, there is a lot of growing on public land and in state parks, and the people that grow it can be dangerous. If you're ever in the woods in the Ozarks and you stumble across a MJ field, turn around and get away as fast as you can. It is possibly guarded with booby traps and insane, well-armed hillbilly weed growers who wont hesitate to hand you a bad day in exchange for keeping their livelihood safe.


Of course the REAL dangerous people making drugs in the woods aren't pot growers, they are meth cooks. Of course, I'm sure you think that's okay too.

[RainDog]

125. you totally miss the entire point

the issue is that cannabis is illegal (and, therefore, is grown in public parks to avoid detection.)

not that someone wants people to grow in public spaces.

d'uh.

[Dutchmaster]

131. The OP (and others on this thread) . . .

. . . is incensed that the government is going after MJ grown on public lands. Therefore it stands to reason that he thinks the gov. should be leaving these illegal drug dealers alone.

These are not people who have a couple of plants in their house for personal use. These are drug dealers who are in it for the money. When you have illegal enterprises operating for the express purpose of making money, you have a situation where innocent people can be harmed.

I'm sorry, I am for decriminalization of MJ but I have no sympathy whatsoever for these people having their illegal drug farms raided.

[fredamae]

133. It's the Cartels and the damage to our fragile forest land

The Federal De-Scheduling of Cannabis is also a sound Ecological Protection act.

[RainDog]

134. no, it doesn't stand to reason

unless someone chooses view the issue from this angle.

if you're for decriminalization, it makes no sense to want farms raided - or, rather, decriminalization makes no sense for this reason.

that doesn't mean farms in state parks, however.

there is some shorthand that you're maybe missing here b/c of your view of this issue - but people don't want growers on public lands b/c that's not good for the public or the land.

what they object to is continuing the failed drug war that results in people moving to public lands to grow.

[Dutchmaster]

139. It is a logical extension of thought process when . . .

. . . you finish off your link to an article with a statement like this:

"Its just mind blowing the tactics the Federal Government is coming up with to prosecute Americans and eradicate Cannabis..."

Carry on in willful ignorance of that if you like.

Also, decriminalization doesn't mean people get to start growing in state parks either. I'm not sure how you are drawing that conclusion. Decriminalization means you get a ticket/treatment for possession. It means following the European model of not having the punishment inflict greater harm than the behavior.

[RainDog]

150. LOL

Since I've been here quite a bit longer than you have and am quite a bit more familiar with some common themes about this issue here - let me just tell you that you're wrong and you're trying to insinuate something that's not there.

that's because you have an agenda, as you've demonstrated before.

if you think that people here support growing on public lands - you're...woefully clueless.

I don't think you're an idiot, however, so what I really think is that you're trying to make this look like something other than what it is.

or, perhaps, you have a cognitive bias and you prefer to assume the worst or choose to select the least favorable interpretation of what someone has said. sort of like catastrophizing - but using that sort of stinking thinking when approaching others.

[sarcasmo]

135. Tax it and Legalize it.

[Beam Me Up]

138. This is just SOOOOOOOO STUUUUUPPPPPIIDDDDDDDDD

I mean, totally beyond the whole question of why adults shouldn't be allowed to alter their consciousness with THC -- one of the most benign medicines on the planet -- WHY THE FUCK do they think that "MOST" of it is being grown on public lands? That is just IDIOCY.

Clueless fucking idiocy.

[They_Live]

142. Up next...

Making dizziness illegal. Children will no longer be permitted to spin themselves around and around.

[fredamae]

146. Ahh, yes--

The Ancient Primal Human Desire For An Altered State Of Mind!

[Zorra]

143. Marijuana is a dangerous, powerful, mind altering drug.

It contains the deadly substance Tee-Hee-Hee, a powerful organic chemical that turns those who use it into dangerous gay liberals.

I for one, stand behind the Obama administration in eradicating the devil's weed, the evil plant that can turn Good Conservative Americans that do what they are told into hippie like zombie perverts. I've seen the film "Reefer Madness", a documentary on marijuana effects. I know it is the truth, because I saw it on TV.
:patriot:

[felix_numinous]

147. Rational discourse, medical research and public opinion--

ALL--are thrown out of the equation--as if we don't exist. These decisions are not being made to make life easier for Americans, on the contrary, they are making life hell for more and more people. We, who are already stressed out, have health problems, who have no other choices in medicine. Us, who just want to relax a bit in life.


The MIC/prison industrial complex is a domestic threat--because they are preying on American citizens. They refined their techniques overseas and now they have come home to apply their methods of suppression on us--and for the LIFE of me I do not know what we are going to do.


Peace and smile to all of you here :)

[Uncle Joe]

148. Nothing says Sisyphean task like the so called War on Drugs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sisyphus

"Sisyphean task" As a punishment from the gods for his trickery, Sisyphus was made to roll a huge boulder up a steep hill, but before he could reach the top of the hill, the rock would always roll back down, forcing him to begin again.<5> The maddening nature of the punishment was reserved for Sisyphus due to his hubristic belief that his cleverness surpassed that of Zeus. As a result when Sisyphus was condemned to his punishment, Zeus displayed his own cleverness by binding Sisyphus to an eternity of frustration with the boulder rolling away from Sisyphus when he neared the top of the hill. Accordingly, pointless or interminable activities are often described as Sisyphean. Sisyphus was a common subject for ancient writers and was depicted by the painter Polygnotus on the walls of the Lesche at Delphi.<6>

The big difference is the American People get rolled over by the boulder everytime it descends the hill.

Thanks for the thread, DreamSmoker.

[Vidar]

149. The DINO IN CHIEF continues to pander and disappoint.