Pro-choice pol leaving church

[kskiska]

A prominent pro-choice politician is quitting the Catholic Church after being told he would be denied Communion, it was reported yesterday.

New Jersey Senate Majority Leader Bernard Kenny (D-Hoboken), a former altar boy, told the Philadelphia Inquirer he's leaving the church after 57 years.
"I will look for other options to express my faith and will probably join another Christian church," he said.

"If every faith starts trying to impose their rules on elected officials," Kenny said, "democracy is going to be factionalized along religious lines."

Kenny told the paper he decided to leave after a meeting with his pastor, Msgr. Frank Del Prete of Sts. Peter and Paul Church in Hoboken. Kenny said he asked if, as a politician who supports abortion rights and stem-cell research, he would be denied Communion.

Del Prete told him he would be permitted Communion one more time "but that then he would tell me not to come again."

more…
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/story/191788p-165778c.html

[jean]

1. Yes. the Catholic Church must maintain a sanctity of life status and only

allow affronts to that policy AFTER a child is born.

[Gin]

6. good for him....the church is nothing more than a big business....once the

revenue flow drops...and it will...they will welcome all back into the fold. They can't have the bishop's standard of living drop...after all..they are god's representatives on earth and deserve the best.

NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!

[salin]

2. again... why is this an issue for democratic officials - but not pro-choic

republican catholics like Guiliani?

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

5. Why, Grrl?

Because Opus Dei is shot through the church and they have established primacy. You see, Opus dei has a story and they're stickin' to it.

[salin]

14. Next question

why isn't the clear injection of politics by some RCC higherups - as is demonstrated by this selective application of who gets denied communion based on their political views - being made a HUGE media or political issue?

[RoBear]

7. Good question!

Strange that when the Catholics crawled into bed with the other pro-choicers, all standards went out the window. Except, protect them poor little pre-born babies! I left the church years ago. I wish I hadn't so that I could leave now.

[beyurslf]

8. Or the pols of both parties who are

pro death penalty?

[Nite Owl]

9. Isn't Guilliani divorced? Wouldn't

that be against Church teaching also? Pro war and pro death penalty pols should also be denied as that is part of Church teaching also.

[kskiska]

12. Twice divorced, once to his cousin

and what about Arnold? Also, Jeb is pro-death penalty.

[4_Legs_Good]

20. Jeb isn't Catholic

Unless I'm very mistaken!

david

[kskiska]

26. Jeb is Catholic

He converted because of his Mexican wife.

[4_Legs_Good]

27. Holy cripes!!!

I didn't know that.

Ewwwwwwwwww...

Thanks for cluing me in.

david

[krkaufman]

13. Or all the pro-death penalty politicians n/t

[struggle4progress]

33. I don't think death penalty is against Catholic Church teaching ...

This is probably a lower order tendency: output of some bishops' conferences or somesuch.

But given the "infallibility" of the Pope, and his declaration that the Iraq war was unjust, I might have hoped for the fun of seeing the Church refuse Communion to politicians who supported the war in Iraq. Sigh ...

[Iris]

34. yes, it is.

The church teaches respect for ALL life. I believe there has been some allowance for the death-penalty vs. abortion because the babies are considered innocent (even though it is necessary to baptize even a miscarriage to be sure the child can get into heaven without the mark of "original sin".)

Anyway, that's what Dead Man Walking was about.

[struggle4progress]

40. Does teaching respect for all life

actually include a Vatican-level pronunciation that the death penalty is wrong under all circumstances? For example, is there a papal encyclical?

I'd love any reference you can provide on this, because: (i) I'm anti-DP; (ii) I've wandered in and out of the Catholic Church for years. Dead Man Walking was a great movie but I remember the story being about the anti-DP stance in the individual conscience of a nun, not about a principled stance by the church hierarchy.

The respect for life rhetoric thrills me -- but I don't see any evidence the Church is threatening to withhold communion from people who do nuclear weapons research, for example.

[Iris]

45. I'm sure it can be found somewhere.

I don't think the church makes a big deal out of it because it would probably alienate half their congregation and since they already push the envelope with contraception and abortion, I don't think they can afford to lose another half.

I'll see if I can find something more specific for you.

[Iris]

46. Here ya go - straight from the Pope's lips to the world's ears in 2001

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/secretariat_state/documents/rc_seg-st_doc_20010621_death-penalty_en.html

[struggle4progress]

48. Thanks! eom

[4_Legs_Good]

47. I'm not positive, but it might be included in HUMANAE VITAE...

I don't know, though.

The general teaching is to respect life from natural conception to natural death. Period.

Capital punishment is definitely 100% against the teaching of the Church. (I think this even includes witches).

But the hypocricy is there, as we can see. No denial of Communion for Scalia and other pro-death penalty politicians. Most of the most rabid anti-choice Catholics are also pro-death penalty.

Your point on Nuclear weapons is well taken as well, though the Church has consistently opposed war whenever possible. The catch is that the right-wing of the Catholic laity as well as the heiarchy has done a masterful job in controlling the media, and connvincing the world (and the laity) that we are an utter right-wing institution. Very little gets out about the social responsibility that the Church also espouses.

david

[struggle4progress]

50. Thanks: I'll look up H.V. eom

[qanda]

3. This is so sad!

I just wonder if you'll have to begin bringing your political party affiliation with you when you join a church. Although, I'm a registered Independent, I think this is an outrage.

[trogdor]

4. Profiles in courage

It's high time someone said, "enough is enough." Do we really want to be "factionalized along religious lines," as Kenny says? That's the sort of thing that goes on in places like the Middle East or in the Balkans, and see what that's gotten them.

If the RCC can't stay the hell out of politics, we should stay the hell away from the RCC.

Enough is enough.

[Ninga]

10. The Catholic Church has made it a bit too

easy to leave. Given the internal problems they continue to have with priests who break the law, and the mother chuch cover ups, its no wonder more haven't left.

[4_Legs_Good]

21. It's funny that the Vatican is trying their "New Evangelization" and...

at the same time alienating so many.

As a Catholic myself, I'm getting tired of it, but I'm even more tired at how the right wing is using selected portions of Catholic teaching to promote division.

david

[kskiska]

54. I remember how back in the 60s

the church was losing so many members it instituted folk masses to attract young people, and switched from Latin to English and turned the altar around so that the priest faced the congregation rather than the front wall of the church. It's nutty for a church to turn people away.

[BattyDem]

28. If the RCC can't stay the hell out of politics ...

they should lose their tax-exempt status!

Churches have the right to expect their members to follow the rules. However, those rules should be applied to everyone equally ... and privately.

The RCC is going after well-known members and publicly berating them in order to influence their political decisions. That's not the way Democracy works. If politicians are going to lose their church privileges because they won't follow the RCC's rules, then the RCC should lose their tax-exemption privileges because they won't follow Democracy's rules!


edited: typo

[LittleApple81]

11. This is the Catholics' loss and people with consciences gain. n/t

[starroute]

15. Is the Catholic Church going to come unglued when the Pope dies?

As an outside observer, I could be way off base -- but I've had the feeling for years that John Paul is the only thing holding the Catholic Church together.

His personality and achievements have held the respect of the world, but his actual policies have been extremely conservative -- not only on doctrine, but also in the way he's squashed liberation theology and favored Opus Dei.

My guess is that his death will allow a lot of simmering discontent to rise to the surface -- while at the same time, the choice of his successor will reveal how profoundly conservative the Church leadership has become.

Again, I speak as an outsider, but my impression is that the political heart of the Church now lies with extremely right-wing groups in Latin America, the Philippines, and Africa, and that the more liberal Catholics of Europe and North America are likely to find themselves increasingly marginalized and disenfranchised. If that's true, I can't see any very positive outcome.

[gauguin57]

17. Who wants their stupid Communion, anyway?

I had to endure Sister James's abuse as I prepared for my First Communion. I had to endure making my First Confession face to face with a priest (no confessional partition between us -- for a six-year-old kid to tell their sins directly to a priest can be pretty terrifying). I endured the guilt of not being able to believe that that little wafer was ACTUALLY THE BODY OF CHRIST, and that "if you chew it, Jesus will wind up in your STOMACH!" (a nun actually told me that once!) Of course, I left the church years ago, but I take Communion at Catholic weddings and funerals. I freaking earned a lifelong right to get a little piece of dry bread that sticks to the roof of your mouth. Pro-choice, pro-birth-control, pro-women-priests, pro-married-priests notwithstanding.

But who wants that crap after all this?

I've had priests make an issue, right at the communion rail, over my non-Catholic family members taking communion in the saintly catholic church. Quel horreur!

May the Catholic leadership (as it stands) rot in hell, and may the Church as it currently stands implode like the Roman Empire.

Denying communion to someone for their political beliefs. Self-righteous Bastards.

[goclark]

35. What about the babies here on earth?

They have ruined hundreds and hundreds of children with their abuses.
How dare the Catholic church deny communion to any body!

They need to be concerned about the unborn but what about the BORN?
They could care less . They just keep sweeping the abuses under the rug,paying off the families and keep having business as usual.

[veganwitch]

16. lutherans are pretty cool

just go with elca, not missouri synod.

[Supormom]

18. I'm with you, veganwitch

I am a member of an ELCA church and am very satisfied there.

[veganwitch]

23. both my parents were raised catholic...

i was baptized catholic, we switched right around when i was 12.

of course, i dont practice any organised religion right now and my mom has been going to unitarian meetings.

id also give the quakers a look too if i was shopping for progressive christian religions.

[Roaming]

39. What's wrong with LCMS?

[struggle4progress]

43. Well, the last time I tried a Missouri Synod church ...

was immediately after 9/11, and the Pastor gave a sermon on how gays were responsible. This ain't a one time thing: Missouri Synod has had a reputation for this sort of tone for decades.

[Roaming]

44. Wow, a surprise. I belong to LCMS and have never heard of this

sort of thing, gay bashing in sermons. I guess it's not necessarily the denomination but the individual pastor/church.

[struggle4progress]

49. Forgive me if I have stereotyped ...

I have heard unhappy LCMS stories for years and my own forays there have been unfortunate. On the other hand, there's an LCMS where I now dwell, which I suppose I should go try: I know they are LCMS because when I called for service times, they said "By the way we are Missouri Synod but please don't hold it against us" (so of course I never went there).

[veganwitch]

51. Missouri Synod tend...

big emphasis on "tend" to be more conservative. and when my mother was becoming disenchanted with the catholic church and looked at lutheranism, she said "they are no better than catholics."

[Jane Austin]

55. Same for many Episcopal churches, and you'll

hardly notice any difference at all in the liturgy.

It'll seem very familiar to any Catholic.

[cap]

19. most Catholics are pro-choice...

does the Church really want us ALL to leave?

[4_Legs_Good]

22. Amen!

If it wants to stop abortion, let's work on increasing the power of women in society, promote contraception, and increase the average standard of living.

Making abortion illegal won't stop it.

Denying Communion to pro-choice members won't increase membership.

david

http://www.cath4choice.org

[veganwitch]

24. what about giving up communion?

i understand that its a very important part of mass and christian religion in general, but it would show at least a chunk of the church does not agree with their policies.

or theres always hittin' 'em were it hurts the most - the collection plate.

[4_Legs_Good]

25. Lots of people are non-Communion regulars

I don't really understand it, but in the Mexican population that goes to mass every week, only like 20% go to Communion. There are others too.

I don't think boycotting Communion would be very feasable for me. I don't think it would send any signal, and I would be depriving myself of something I deem important because they're being stupid. If it got to that point, I'd likely boycott mass altogether.

Problem with voting with my $ is that I kinda do like my parish, just don't like the highers up (all of them, all the time - though often, I think they're great).

I think what I'll do is make sure to donate significant $ to pro-choice/pro-social justice Catholic related charities like Catholics for Free Choice, the Catholic Worker and maybe even Plowshears (though I'd likely be arrested by John Ashkkkroft. Plowshears has got to be labeled "Terrorist" by now, doesn't it?)

david

[SoCalDem]

29. It's time for religion to go back where it belongs...

back into the private lives of its followers.. It's between the priest and parishoner..not the public..

I know lots of "low profile" people who take communion and they are divorced.. Technically they should not..but it's between them and god..not the priest ..not the church..not the politicians..

I am truly SICKENED to see how the repubes have dragged the cross into EVERY freaking part of our public lives....government...schools..sports.

I have friends whom I have known for 35 years and I don't have a CLUE what religion they are.. IT DOES NOT MATTER...

[4_Legs_Good]

30. Two great tastes that *don't* taste great together...

You got your religion in my politics!

You got your politics in my religion!

david

[dawn]

31. Bravo to him, for standing up for what he believes in.

I wish more would do the same!

[skippysmom]

32. I don't think he'll be the only one

This issue is mostly pissing off Catholics who are Dems and/or pro-choice. Eventually they will start to leave. This lifelong Catholic and lifelong Dem is about ready to jump ship in utter disgust with the hypocrisy of the church leaders.

Attendance is down in so many places -- and they want to quibble over who's the better Catholic?

[Lugnut]

42. I agree

I jumped ship many years ago and haven't looked back. Many RC churches in this area have already closed along with countless Catholic schools. Church leaders don't seem to give a hoot.

[qb]

36. permitted Communion one more time? Either it's wrong or it isn't.

What's with the moral relativism?

[nini]

37. He needs to find another parish instead of leaving altogether.

there are lots of liberal priests out there.. he needs to run from the right wing ones.

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[crossroads]

52. I love the site and it felt good to show my appreciation!

come on guys dig deep to keep this site open and free!
:grouphug: :yourock:

[mn9driver]

41. The Episcopalians welcome any baptised Xtian at their table.

No political litmus test required. Makes for interesting coffee hours.

[Chovexani]

53. One of my favorite bumperstickers

"The last time we mixed religion and politics, people got burned at the stake."

Kudos to Kenny for following his conscience. The Unitarians would love to have him. :)