ATTACK ON THE UN: IRAQI CHAOS 'IS AMERICA'S FAULT'

[dArKeR]

IRAQ is in chaos as America's plans to rebuild the country fail, it was claimed last night.

Former US Assistant Secretary of State James Rubin spoke out after suicide bombers killed at least 24 people at the UN headquarters in Baghdad.

He said the Bush administration had "dropped the ball massively" since ousting Saddam Hussein and allowed terrorist groups to operate.

The plan to return the country to the Iraqi people had failed "spectacularly", leading to a collapse in law and order.

He added: "The real problem is chaos - the chaos that has allowed terrorist organisations and others to come into Iraq where, let's remember, they weren't before."

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews/content_objectid=13312336_method=full_siteid=50143_headline=-ATTACK%2DON%2DTHE%2DUN%2D%2DIRAQI%2DCHAOS%2D%2DIS%2DAMERICA%2DS%2DFAULT%2D-name_page.html

I don't believe terrorists or Al Qaeda have entered Iraq.
1. They would stand out like a sore thumb because they'd have no place to live. Nothing to eat.
2. No Iraqi guerrilla group would accept them because they would think they are CIA/NSA agents trying to infiltrate the Iraqi resistance..

No sorry, this is all Iraqi citizens who closely know each other who are doing this.

And you can find some experts who say the same thing on
http://www.wbur.org. You'll have to look in the archive. I posted the complete link but lost it. Search DU about Aug. 18 'wbur' 'darker' in someone elses thread.

http://darkerxdarker.tripod.com/index.html

[Cha]

1. This is really really bad! It said the US was suppose to be in

charge of security at the UN!

"Briton Fiona Watson, who worked for him, and Canadian Christopher Klein-Beekman, Unicef children's fund chief, were also killed.

And James Rubin is married to Chistiane Amanpour.

[caledesi]

37. Zid, I heard Jamie and Christiane got divorced.

I posted a message about Jamie months ago saying he was married to CA (who I LOVE)and someone mentioned here that they had gotten divorced. Made me sad.

[OKNancy]

42. They're still married

lol

always look stuff up before believing anything on DU

In an article dated yesterday in the Guardian Observer is this sentence:
James Rubin, the former US secretary of state spokesman who is married to Christiane Amanpour, CNN's star foreign correspondent].

[havocmom]

2. Help me understand something, please.

Why is the FBI investigating an attack which took place in Iraq at a mission of the UN? Am somewhat troubled by US Dept of Justice sending investigators. Is that SOP or should I tip my tinfoil hat and ask about the possibility of planted evidence?

[wtmusic]

6. The FBI

has investigative technology which is the best in the world (we are making an assumption that it is impartially interpreted). My guess would be that the US offered and the UN accepted.

[Athame]

14. Two words: Anthrax killer n/t

[stickdog]

18. Four more words: Paul Wellstone & Flight 93

Your secrets are safe with the International Bureau of Investigations!

[tlcandie]

41. Also, heard on LINK/FSTV

that American forces had taken up offices in the UN (w/o invitation) and in the spinal surgery hospital next door to the UN...again w/o invitation.

Could this be the possible reason for them investigating?

[oneighty]

9. FBI

They are everywhere, everywhere!

I thought the FBI was for domestic purposes only.

Oh! That was before we became "Masters of the World."

180

[starroute]

26. FBI has been getting increasingly involved overseas

I did a little research on this last winter. What I found out was that they never used to operate outside the US except on an occasional and temporary basis. But they established a permanent office in Afghanistan when the US invaded in 2001 -- it was the FBI that messed up the interrogation of John Walker Lindh. And since then, they've seemed to be regularly involved in overseas investigations of terrorism.

What I couldn't find out was the context of all this -- what its real scope is, under what authority it's being done, and what the FBI might be up to in other countries besides merely investigating specific incidents. I'd sure love to know more.

[Raven]

3. Rummy was interviewed on NPR yesterday

and I thought he practically admitted that we were not prepared for the peace, didn't have good intelligence about the state of the infrastructure and didn't know what we were doing.

[wtmusic]

4. Agree, however

I do believe there has been an influx of Muslims from other countries and that all the attacks are not caused by Iraqis who closely know each other. Call them "terrorists", "resistance fighters", whatever you want--they are accepted and protected within the Iraqi population.

It's not that easy for the CIA to infiltrate. Iraqis have been executing informers and enforcing an unwritten 'code of silence'.

Links? If I was really responsible I'd have some for you. This is reading I've done recently and I've gotta go see if I can find some.

[dArKeR]

13. Are you going to search for 'wbur' to listen to some experts who also

backed up my opinion?

[wtmusic]

21. Yeah dark but your own link

seems to back up mine:

"Militant Shiites, and soldiers on Jihad from Iran, Syria and Saudi Arabia all seem to have found their purpose in Iraq."

http://www.wbur.org.

[Barrett808]

15. This is a loose coalition of nationalists, "regime loyalists," and jihadis

Today's guess:

Partisans and "dead-enders" from the Ba'ath are probably becoming closely allied; new partisans are recruited and organized by Ba'ath officials. The Sunni resistance orbits this group, or is perhaps more central.

The Shia resistance hasn't been unleashed yet, but it poses the threat of an intifada on a massive scale.

Internationl jihadis are tolerated and occasionally included in attack plans.

Tribes have ever-changing, fluid allegiances largely based on vengeance and who's offering the most cash.

Who knows what it will look like tomorrow.

[dArKeR]

20. Who's Fighting Back in Iraq? - Taped radio show Boston WBUR, Great!

Found it.
http://www.onpointradio.org/shows/2003/08/20030815_a_main.asp

[AntiCoup2K4]

5. They would think Al Qaeda were CIA/NSA agents??

Nah.... that's ridiculous.

How could a terrorist organization led by a guy whose family have been partners with the Bush Criminal Empire for 30 years possibly be linked to the US government. :eyes:

/sarcasm off

[DBoon]

7. BBC says something stronger

See http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3166797.stm

Choice quotes:

The US lacks experience in nation-building verging on the incompetent. It needs more troops but doesn't have them.

"However the roadblock to the UN doing more lies in Washington among the neo-conservatives. Until they accept that it is more attractive for the UN to take more responsibility, nothing will happen," he warned

per Iraq specialist Toby Dodge, Senior Research Fellow at Warwick University

[SOS]

8. Bush has failed

at everything he has ever done. Poor student, poor military record, bankrupted three oil companies, rejected by UT law school, drunk until age 40, lost the 2000 election, worst net job losses since Hoover...
And yet, somehow, he is expected to succeed (whatever that means) in Iraq? Shortly before the attack on Iraq, Iraqi exiles were deeply unnerved after a meeting with Bush. The reason? He did not know the difference between Shiites and Sunnis. Failing "spectacularly" is Bush's life story.

[sandnsea]

10. Are you serious?

I would really like a link or reference if you remember where you read that Sunni/Shiite info. He is a complete and total failure and people like that always end up dangerous when they have power. What's worse is the people he has surrounded himself with aren't any more capable than he is.

[SOS]

17. See

the current issue of the Nation (Sept. 1/8). The nugget about Bush being unfamiliar with the 2 types of Islam in Iraq is mentioned in the review of "The New Iraq" by Joesph Braude. The article title is "The Mess in Mesopotamia".

[wtmusic]

25. Bush was informed

of the breakdown of religious groups in Iraq in January 2003.

From George Packer's "Dreaming of Democracy" (Time Magazine):

"Bush is a man who has never shown much curiosity about the world. When he met with Makiya and two other Iraqis in January, I was told by someone not present, the exiles spent a good portion of the time explaining to the president that there are two kinds of Arabs in Iraq, Sunnis and Shiites. The very notion of an Iraqi opposition appeared to be new to him."

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/02/magazine/02IRAQ.html

[shanti]

43. this is true

"What's worse is the people he has surrounded himself with aren't any more capable than he is."

HOWEVER, THEY may be more evil...

[dArKeR]

16. You forgot;

1. Used his children as a political shield claiming he hid his DUI to protect them. No Christian man would use his children as a public excuse.

2. Before the election Newsweek called him 'Team Politician' with no ability to manage.

3. Pre election interview, Dan Rather knew an inside story. In interview Rather pushed hard and asked twice when Bush didn't answer; 'Did you see Lincolns Ghost in the Lincoln Bedroom?' Bush would not answer. I think Bush was doing so much drug/alcohol that he was having psychotic breakdowns in the White House during Papa's term. (I can feel this one in my bones.) The interview is a public record if you can find it.

4. I don't believe Junior actually flew a jet solo. I'd stake my reputation on it. (Whatever that's worth?) (I can feel this one in my bones too.) The media can play all the games they want but just look at him knowing his admitted history with alcohol. I'm sure there was a lot of drugs too. In fact Junior had only flown overseas 2 times before 1998. This is incredible considering he was in one of the most powerful jet set families. In my opinion he has some kind of phobia.

[wtmusic]

30. much more fun stuff re: *'s military record at

http://www.talion.com/georgebush.html#1

[Blue_Roses]

32. this is pretty interesting

stuff...thanks for the link!

[saskatoon]

34. Can't view

Is there someway to make the links info legible re the Nat Guard sites? It flashes on and then becomes real small?????

[ex_jew]

23. He's the man to destroy the US !!!

If anyone can do it, W's the man.

[colorado_ufo]

28. The most unnerving part is

he seems to have no idea that he has failed. None. Zippo.

[saskatoon]

33. Agreed 200% but

Bush isn't really in charge is he, it's Cheney and the rest of that bunch who write his scripts,pull his strings. Rumsfeld is one of the scariest people I have ever come across, though the rest of that cabal are monsters in my estimation. And have you ever paid attention to Ashcroft's eyes? scary as hell!

[SOS]

39. Henry Kissinger

called Rumsfeld "the most ruthless person I have ever met."
Considering the source, that says it all.

[shanti]

44. cheney, ashcroft and rumsfeld

the fearsome threesome....they are TRULY evil. :scared:

[sandnsea]

11. What if it's both?

Local resistance and outsiders coming into the country. That makes the situation even more explosive. This is leading to the kind of war I don't even want to contemplate.

[NNN0LHI]

12. I agree with your assessment dArKeR

>>>I don't believe terrorists or Al Qaeda have entered Iraq.
1. They would stand out like a sore thumb because they'd have no place to live. Nothing to eat.
2. No Iraqi guerrilla group would accept them because they would think they are CIA/NSA agents trying to infiltrate the Iraqi resistant.

No sorry, this is all Iraqi citizens who closely know each other who are doing this.<<<

And I might add? Our soldiers went into Iraq as good as they could get, which was very good. The Iraqi's on the other hand are still learning this stuff, and refining their techniques as the go along. Imagine what they will be capable of doing after another year of practicing this stuff? Its frightening to think about.

Don

[stickdog]

19. And where are they keeping their huge stashes of C4 that they use only on

UN delegations and the Jordanian embassy?

[QuietStorm]

22. hmmm stickdog

You may be on to something. This also could help support the claim that YES their are WMD. Who does Chalabi answer to?

[NNN0LHI]

24. The report I keep hearing is that at the UN, C4 and Soviet era munitions..

...are what made up the bomb. The country is littered with this kind of stuff. Whats the shelf life of C4? I don't know if its fresh or old? Dout it makes much difference either. Someone could store tons of the stuff in their garage. It doesn't need any special care and handling like chemical weapons would.

Could some weapons smuggling be going on? Hell yes. Wouldn't be the first time someone did a little war profiteering. One quick example would be the Iran/Iraq war when America supplied weapons to both sides when they were at war. Hey, its just business.

Don

[QuietStorm]

27. crazy question

and do not yell at me. I am just asking. Wasn't their rumblings that Jordanian embassy was tied to mossad? Chalabi also is tied in with mossad as well.

[QuietStorm]

29. And then of course there is this mystery

Snip
In Amman, many Jordanians immediately blamed Ahmed Chalabi, who heads the Iraqi National Congress in Baghdad, a major coalition leader against Saddam Hussein who has relocated in Iraq from exile since the war's end. Chalabi, who was long favored by some in the Bush administration to become Iraq's next leader, has been indicted in Jordan on financial misconduct charges.

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/world/2037457

Arab view on Jordanian Embassy bombing The daily star on line
http://www.dailystar.com.lb/opinion/09_08_03_i.asp

scroll down on this one:
http://216.239.57.104/search?q=cache:ZHUM3GYzA3AJ:iht.com/pdfs/dstar/DS06-09_08.pdf+chalabi+AND+jordanian+embassy+AND+mossad&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

OSP - Chalabi
http://www.counterpunch.org/leupp07262003.html

this source I am not vouching for
http://www.liberalslant.com/mh072503.htm

[lebkuchen]

31. Rubin was on CNNI about a week ago

Rubin left me with the impression that the US had only two options in dealing with Iraq: either sanction the hell out of them or, if a country had the will and the guts, attack them.

Over ten years of sanctions left the population and infrastructure destitute, and bombing the Iraqis created vendettas against the US to last a lifetime.

Is Rubin's logical ability so limited that he honestly cannot come up with hundreds of alternatives to dealing with Iraq other than starvation and mass murder??

[Karenina]

35. YES, the American gub'mint is at fault.

The old flat bed or new cement mixer got through TWO Ami checkpoints.
And NO the F-16s were NOT immediately scrambled as per SOP... :shrug:

[NYC]

36. Because of all the bombing in Iraq, I would imagine there are many

homeless, hungry people. Why wouldn't homeless hungry foreigners get lost in the crowd of homeless, hungry locals? Think of all the locals who are jobless even though they aren't homeless. They must get food from "handouts".

You said: 1. They would stand out like a sore thumb because they'd have no place to live. Nothing to eat.

[dArKeR]

38. This is where we as Americans don't understand a basic concept of tribal,

clan, family living.

1. All these people who live in these neighborhoods know each other. Usually by family relationship. I have personally seen in Asia how an entire 'family' or 'clan' live in the same apartment building. I asked my friends, 'Don't you want to get away from your parents?' (I guess this in only an American things. LOL!) A son will marry and start their family in the same house, apartment building, surely within the block.
2. People don't move around much in poorer countries. I'm not sure but I assume they weren't allowed to move under Saddam. To this day in most poorer countries you have to register before you can move or at least you have to register with the 'Area Leader' when you do settle down in a place. In many Asian countries the Gov. has a speaker system set up on the electric polls. One person can instantly make a speech to every person in the country. It's so funny. It starts with a music jingle, like you can have your cell phone make. But some countries use the same jingle for everything, from garbage collection to the jingle when you leave your keys in the ignition. (ut oh, rambling)
3.Alienation is a Western thing and a big city thing. In general, Iraq was a suburban sprawl.
4. I don't see any reports of groups of Iraqis wondering around looking for a home. Everyone has stayed put with their families.

Here is a pic I got from CBS or MSGOP. I didn't save the story link but it said gunmen came and started shooting then through these cards out of their car window.

It says, 'Al Qaeda' is here to protect you. (paraphrase)
http://darkerxdarker.tripod.com/push030820.html
If you turn it over it says, 'Printed in USA'

[Q]

40. This is Bush's FAULT...not that of 'America'...

- The Bushies wanted/needed this war...and even called the United Nations 'irrelevant' to get it. Now he's looking for an easy way out of the quagmire. Won't happen...unless his Poppy can pull another rabbit out of the hat.