Soldiers Saw Refusing Order as Their Last Stand

[Rose Siding]

snip>
Nancy Lessin, a leader of Military Families Speak Out, which opposes the war, said she had been flooded with calls and e-mail from families with a simple message: What had happened to the reservists echoed the conditions their own soldiers experienced in Iraq: a shortage of armored vehicles, especially for part-time soldiers' units; convoy missions through dangerous stretches without adequate firepower; and constant breakdowns among old vehicles owned, especially, by National Guard and reservist units.
.......
Once the unit arrived in Iraq, the inadequacy of the platoon's equipment and preparedness was thrown into sharp relief against the dangers the country posed. Although the unit is based near Nasiriya in the Shiite-controlled south, which is not as volatile as Sunni-dominated areas, the whole country has been convulsed by battles and uprisings during most of the 343rd's tour of duty. "This is not the first time that there has been a problem with these charges and stuff, with them not having armor, not having radios," said Beverly Dobbs, mother of Specialist Dobbs. "My son told me two months ago - he called me, he said, 'Mom I got the scare of my life.'

"'I said what's wrong?'" Ms. Dobbs said. "He said, 'They sent us out, we come under fire, our own people was shooting and we didn't even have radios to let them know.' They're sending them out without the equipment they need. I don't care what the Army says."

Families that spoke to the soldiers this weekend received slightly differing accounts of what happened the morning of Oct. 13. They all said, however, that fuel the soldiers had to deliver was unusable because it had been contaminated with a second liquid. They all said the soldiers were under armed guard. General Chambers denied both assertions. Relatives say that Sergeant Butler, Sgt. Larry McCook of Jackson and Specialist Scott Shealey of Graysville, Ala., have been identified as three of five "ringleaders" of the incident and reassigned to other units on the air base. Specialist Shealey's parents said their son said in a telephone call that he was going to be discharged.

"He'll be home in three to four weeks, that's what he's being told," said Ricky Shealey, Specialist Shealey's father, a retired Postal Service supervisor and former sergeant in the Army. "He's depressed," Mr. Shealey said. "He just can't believe it's happening."

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/18/national/18guard.html?pagewanted=print&position=

[MnFats]

1. hate to say it, but this quagmire is smelling like...Vietnam..

...more and more all the time.

...how long before some pig-headed officer gets fragged?
...of course, when that happens, they'll blame 'insurgents.'

[The Zanti Regent]

2. If Bush steals another one, be prepared for invading Syria and Iran

The Neoconstipated assholes have made it clear that they are going after Syria next!

[havocmom]

3. He would likely order the invasion

but I wouldn't bet on many officers executing the order.

[Tamyrlin79]

15. OH, have they???

I once thought Syria, but I think Iran the bigger threat and more likely. Easier sell to the public, too.

[nodehopper]

17. just check what's next on the PNAC program.

I think it's Syria. But since Syria and Iran are #2 and 3 I am sure they could be switched around.

[sugarcookie]

4. Made me cry....

snip>
Ms. Butler went to the altar rail of Zion Travelers Missionary Baptist Church and told the congregation: "My husband has been in the Army more than 20 years, but refused to take those men in that convoy. He said it would be suicidal.''

"So, I'm going to ask you to pray for me," she said, "because he is not going to take no other men's children into the land of death."

She bowed her head, and so did everyone else. "Lord, Sister Butler needs you," the Rev. Daniel Watkins said, shutting his eyes tight. "Her husband, he needs you. All the soldiers in Iraq, they need you."

[alittlelark]

5. Holy F'in' SH*TE

is it really that bad!? I thought - confusion, danger.... not imminent harm and obfuscation!

Kerry help us!

[drfemoe]

6. this is good

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x911903

Three posts in LBN on this topic.
Maybe the morans will hear about it and, can we hope, give a damn?

edit: hmm . maybe not the same story, but close....

[RamboLiberal]

7. We've heard stories for a long time about lack of supplies

Looks like the truth is finally getting out. From posted story:

But as the soldiers involved in the refusal in Tallil and others begin to speak out, it is growing more apparent that the military has yet to solve the lack of training, parts and equipment that has riddled the military operation in Iraq from the outset, especially among National Guard and Reserve units.

Then you have the Sanchez story from the WP:

Sanchez, who was the senior commander on the ground in Iraq from the summer of 2003 until the summer of 2004, said in his letter that Army units in Iraq were "struggling just to maintain . . . relatively low readiness rates" on key combat systems, such as M-1 Abrams tanks, Bradley Fighting Vehicles, anti-mortar radars and Black Hawk helicopters.

He also said units were waiting an average of 40 days for critical spare parts, which he noted was almost three times the Army's average. In some Army supply depots in Iraq, 40 percent of critical parts were at "zero balance," meaning they were absent from depot shelves, he said.

He also protested in his letter, sent Dec. 4 to the number two officer in the Army, with copies to other senior officials, that his soldiers still needed protective inserts to upgrade 36,000 sets of body armor but that their delivery had been postponed twice in the month before he was writing. There were 131,000 U.S. troops in Iraq at the time.

In what appears to be a plea to top officials to spur the bureaucracy to respond more quickly, Sanchez concluded, "I cannot sustain readiness without Army-level intervention."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A40321-2004Oct17.html

Kerry ought to hop on this and get the sound bite out there! He's hinted at it. And damn the 87 billion vote - AWOL sent these units in the first place without adequate supplies and body armor.

[DELUSIONAL]

8. This Iraq war is like Vietnam on speed

Of course there are vast differences -- but the similarities are mind blowing!

[Tamyrlin79]

16. What do you expect? Both are unjust wars.

Injustice generally has similar long-term consequences.

[nodehopper]

18. that is a really good way of putting it.

[2Design]

9. those in abu grabit - didn't refuse orders and got jail - those who

do refuse orders get jail too - rumsfeld and ash kick and butt go free
go figure

[slor]

10. Less like Vietnam, more like Stalingrad...

in terms of strategic significance. In other words, WAY worse than Vietnam.

[coalition_unwilling]

35. Can you say "Dien Bien Falluja"?

Read Hersh's Chain of Command. Hussein knew Iraqi military no match for U.S. military so gave orders that infrastructure be set up in advance for guerilla war (distributing ammo, organizing 2-3 man cells nationwide).

[burythehatchet]

11. military families support shrub 70/30

oh, the irony

[Ilsa]

12. I was wondering if you have a link for this.

I was checking over the Unsubscriber portion of Army Times online and they wouldn't let me see an article of polling for K vs B. It amazes me that they would support the bastard like this after the callousness of how they treat the military.

[burythehatchet]

13. I do not. I caught it on a bill schneider report on cnn (bleck!)

two separate surveys showed similar results.

[politicat]

25. For the record.... Stars and Stripes is far more balanced than

AT/MT/NT/MarT.

We got both in the house growing up; Stars and Stripes is DOD authorized and a daily. It's pretty balanced, as news goes.

Stars and Stripes is a Department of Defense-authorized daily newspaper distributed overseas for the U.S. military community.  Editorially independent of interference from outside its editorial chain of command, it provides commercially available U.S.and world news and objective staff-produced stories relevant to the military community in a balanced, fair, and accurate manner.  By keeping its audience informed, Stars and Stripes enhances military readiness and better enables U.S. military personnel and their families stationed overseas to exercise their responsibilities of citizenship.
— Revised DoD Directive 5122.11

AT and its brother news-weeklies are the products of a privately held publishing corporation (Military Times Media Group, Ltd.). I recall growing up that NT (we got the Navy version) was very biased... and very gun-nutty. (They made the NRA rag, which we ALSO got, look rational and reasonable....)

I do not trust anything that "Military City" media puts out.

Pcat

[yardwork]

31. I doubt those polls. They are not scientifically sampled.

Those polls showing military families supporting shrub are self-selected. There are a lot of reasons why military families who support Kerry wouldn't want to say so in a military-run poll conducted on base by an officer.

Wait and see what November 2 shows. I know that a lot of those military families are planning to vote for Kerry.

[burythehatchet]

32. Logical argument, and very encouraging

[symbolman]

14. I am a Veteran

of the Vietnam era - during that period I was a Purchasing agent.

I was in charge of buying everything our men needed to fight, from cereal in bulk to joysticks for SR-71's, even told a general to F*ck off, that we weren't going to buy ANY CARPET for his Dog House, etc..

Also wrote contracts, and BID contracts, and there were no such THING as NO BID contracts - it wasn't done..

the Corporatization of the military, or as the NeoCons call it "Tooth to Tail" - is what is killing and maiming our troops.

They are what I call McSoldiers now.. while other guys their age are making over 100K a year, they are performing the same jobs at greater risk for pennies on the dollar, basically working for CORPORATIONS and being Poorly supplied by them - Halliburton, Bechtel, CHEATING them out of armor for their Bodies, their Humvees, food, water, you name it..

this is TREASONOUS behaviour, simple war profitteering at it's worst and I believe should be a reason alone to impeach Bush - for NOT protecting our nation as he swore an OATH to defend us..

this is not defense, it's slaughter for gain and nothing more.

what they are doing is simply ILLEGAL, at least according to the regulations I remember and a lot of people should go to jail for this.. not the troops, but Cheney, Rumsfeld and BUSH - and a host of others CHEATING the troops as they put them in harm's way.

ALL of the troops should lay down their arms and simply WALK or DRIVE OUT OF IRAQ. REFUSE to fight in this fake war. It's not for anyone's freedom, there is no glory, the cause is not just.

LEAVE. TEll the Iraqis that they are free to do what they want with THEIR NATION and go to the nearest Port or airfield and demand to be flown back to the USA for duty that you were hired for, to protect our Nation HERE against Terrorism - and threats both from here and abroad - I swore that myself upon my enlistment.

THAT is what needs to be done. A Chief of Staff needs to order the military to take the Creators of this war into custody to be tried by an international court of the peers of the world.

By all non violent means of course.

Hopefully Kerry will win and use the full process and extent of the law to PROSECUTE Bush, CHeney, Rumsfeld, RIce, Wolfowitz, Perle, and even some of the Media as Accomplices in the unneccessary maiming and murder of OUR TROOPS.

I admire these brave men. You don't have to follow an order if that order is obviously flawed.

I just hope that the horror of "fragging" is NOT going to be added to what we are witnessing, but that is what happened in Nam - let's hope that someone comes to their senses and ENDS this fake war for bucks and oil...

[Eloriel]

20. Righteous Rant, Symbolman, and dead on

But don't hold your breath re Kerry prosecuting anyone.

[anarchy1999]

23. Call the Bolanos Brothers. www.veteransforamerica.com

Rick B. and his brothers have plenty to say about this and they say it very well, as do you symbolman. Lay down your guns and walk, drive to the nearest port, airfield and demand to be flown home.

And yes, all non-violent.

The creators of this war do need to be prosecuted. Why the hell is Bush being allowed to run for re-election?

[onecent]

27. Very nice writing. I sent this on to some friends.

Well said

[Aiptasia]

19. Gas trucks go boom ya know..

Look, I really can't blame the reservists for objecting to these orders. If somebody told me to drive an unarmored gas truck out to the front lines, i'd tell them to go to hell, too. First, if they are a fuel resupply unit in charge of transporting large amounts of explosive fuel, the least the Army can do is provide them with vehicles with hardened defensive armor plating. Reactive armor isn't going to cut it around explosive fuel.

There are GI's over in Iraq that are placing extra metal plating and sand bags in the floorboards of their humvee's, so if they do hit a road mine, the extra padding might shield them from instant death. Now imagine you're in charge of driving a big gas truck. One good shoulder fired RPG against the side of the storage container and kablooie!!!

Not to mention the unit knew they were carrying contaminated fuel. I feel quite certain that they did report this fact up the chain of command and were ignored or the brass was pissed off at a challenge to a direct order, and ordered them into harm's way. Either way, why risk your life in the best of all circumstances if you were carrying contaminated fuel that couldn't be used anyway.

Now, I've heard of dying for oil... but this is ridiculous.

[Turley]

34. Shaking my head

Do you have any idea how much an armored fuel truck would weigh?

Only in Mad Max movies Dude.

[oneighty]

21. "he was going to be discharged"

Failure to obey a lawful order from a superior in time of war is a very serious offense.

The fact the "he was going to be discharged" tells me the Commanders do not have much respect for the "War" they are involved in or for their superiors running it.

Bottom line; this is not a just war it is thievery and President Bush* and his ilk know it and they know that the American people will not stand still for the Courts Martial and death by firing squad these soldiers would face in a REAL war.

The wheels are off the wagon of military discipline in Iraq.

IMHO.

180

[Supersedeas]

22. supporting the troops in time of need is not just political sloganeering

[sam sarrha]

24. FREE THE BAGDAD 13

[Zorra]

26. Yuh. Custer on the Iraqi Rez. n/t

[donco6]

28. How should Kerry respond when he's asked . . .

"Sen. Kerry, do you support a soldier's right to refuse an order?"

You know it's going to come up sometime.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

29. Not a good idea to support this.

and Kerry won't.

[donco6]

30. I agree

Could be radioactive.

[MADem]

33. Wolf Blitzer just did a DEVASTATING INTERVIEW

...with a father of one of the reservists. Apparently, they were sent hither and yon with the contaminated fuel, and no one would take it because it would cause a helo crash. They then went back to their base. They got in at ten at night, were woken up at four in the morning, and told to take the same bad fuel elsewhere. They wanted the fuel destroyed and the tanks purged, and that is why they are in trouble.

They were right to refuse the order.

That father was a good ole boy, he expressed himself in good ole boy plain talk--this is gonna flip on the Army, they fucked up.

[Born_A_Truman]

36. I heard that!

If that fuel was used by choppers they could crash!

I am so happy these men and women are telling their families the facts and the families are talking to the media.

This is going to get interesting.

[German-Lefty]

37. "He'll be home in three to four weeks...." - after the election

For now they'll keep him somewhere where he can't talk to the press.