100,000 Excess Iraqi Deaths Since War - Study

[maddezmom]

LONDON (Reuters) - Deaths of Iraqis have soared by 100,000 since the start of the Iraq (news - web sites) war and many of the victims have been women and children, public health experts from the United States said on Thursday.



"Making conservative assumptions, we think that about 100,000 excess deaths, or more have happened since the 2003 invasion of Iraq," researchers from Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health in Baltimore, Maryland said in a report published online by The Lancet medical journal.



http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=578&ncid=578&e=8&u=/nm/20041028/ts_nm/iraq_deaths_dc

[skylarmae]

1. this is amazing. all along our media has hardly mentioned any

of the Iraqi side heartaches. 100,000 + dead and how many casualties affect how many families and how many circles of people have a problem with the USA or do they still love GEORGIE PORGIE and want to name their children after them?

[primavera]

29. This is actually one of the things that offends me most

Even our more left-leaning newspapers will talk about our comparatively paltry 1,000 "fallen heroes," yet will never once mention even one of the 100,000 Iraqis who have died defending their homeland from a foreign invasion and occupation force. Which one of these is supposed to be the "hero" again? the invader or the one defending his/her homeland? I thought we liked home spun champions defending their coutry. Guess that only aplies when we the invader is someone we don't like. Good to know we have such a bountiful double standard.

[saigon68]

40. Here is one of those Heroes Errr WAR CRIMINALS

World Photos - AP

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/041027/481/kgi50110271826



Staff Sgt. Coleman Shelley, 42, of Miami, from the 284 th Base Support Battalion in Giessen, Germany, poses in front of a poster promoting voting in the 2004 US presidential elections at the base on Wednesday, Oct. 20, 2004. 'We would rather have our commander in chief re-elected, because he has all the knowledge that is needed to fight the war in Iraq (news - web sites) and the war on terrorism,' said Shelley, who served in Iraq for 15 months with the 1st Armored's Headquarters Detachment Engineer Brigade. (AP Photo/Bernd Kammerer)

[qwlauren35]

49. Umm....

Why would you go there????

Yes, this is Vietnam all over again. Yes, our soldiers are being put in a position to kill 100,000 Iraqis, many of whom are innocent women and children. YES, this violates the Geneva Convention...

And yes, in this definition, many of our soldiers are war criminals.

Just as many Vietnam Vets were war criminals...

And sometimes I think this explosive phrase "war criminals" which CAN mean violators of the Geneva convention OR can be thought to mean Nazi torturers, is being used to compromise this election...

I don't tend to think of a Staff Sergeant as a war criminal. The Commander in Chief, YES. The Staff Sergeant, no.

Many Nazis were able to defend themselves from the charges by saying they were just following orders. It's a legitimate defense.

I don't think we should smear our soldiers just because they are blind to the violations they are committing daily.

[primavera]

57. Out of curiosity, why not?

Why are only commanders in chief eligible for the designation of "war criminal" and the soldiers exempt? Didn't we spend a lot of time and effort after WWII hunting down nazi death camp guards, and appropriately so? Sure, the senior staff who set up the system in which the guards worked bear responsibility, but does that eliminate the responsibility of the guy who herds people into the gas chamber? It takes a pretty twisted person to do that too, you know...

[JSJ]

73. how wrong you are- and your smugness is even more offensive

'Chust followink orters, mein fuhrer', hasn't been a 'legitimate' excuse for killing civilians- even at the hands of rank and file troops- since the end of WW2 and the convening of the Nazi War Crimes Tribunal.

[jdj]

55. everybody remember to rate this story.

[pippin]

56. I would Start to Call This The Iraqi Holocaust.

What else could it be called? Genocide? For this Bush and his henchmen should be brought before the world court and tried for war crimes.

[aquart]

2. Have we equalled Saddam's kill rate yet?

Are we going for a new record?

They will hate us into infinity. Into extinction.

And I have no way to tell them they're wrong.

[Buck Rabbit]

9. To find out how many people Saddam killed you have to ask

Chalabi.

Seen him around lately?

[Lone_Star_Dem]

11. Because they're not

Yes, they hated Saddam and that hate was well deserved. Yes, they hate Bush; again, the hate is well deserved. The reason's are not exactly the same. You try to tell that to an Iraqi who is being threatened/killed by terrorist for collaborating with the occupiers, while being threatened/killed by Americas for being a terrorist. They are seeing their families killed, homes destroyed and heritage/culture demolished. And, they hate us too, or most of them do. I don't blame them.

[LivingInTheBubble]

51. The article says EXCESS

Doesnt this mean on op of the previous rate i.e under saddam?

[Skittles]

3. but........................Bush is "PRO-LIFE"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How can this BE???? :puke:

[cthrumatrix]

36. "what would Jesus do"?

[plcdude]

4. and when will we

see this on network or cable news? Probably on the 12th of Never.

[ILeft]

5. As governor, Bush's death toll was limited to 150 or so...

Ted Bundy as President would have caused less death and suffering than Bush, imho.

[AIJ Alom]

6. This is the scary part: "Making conservative assumptions"

meaning it could be and probably is a lot higher folks.

[ilovenicepeople]

67. Now imagine if you will

The actual number of fallen American soldiers?Does anyone dare to make a "conservative assumption".:shrug: :cry:

[ElementaryPenguin]

7. Translation: George Bush has now murdered at least 100,000 people!

And the morons of this country wonder why we hate this monstrous, souless nut-job like we do!!

:puke:
:argh:
:mad:

[ktowntennesseedem]

60. Wonder how the repugs will spin this?

According to Cheney's mathimatical genius, this means that US casualties are not the 90% Edwards stated in the debates, but a mere 1% of all casualties. I feel so much better knowing that so many others are helping us share the cost!

(extreme sarcasm)

[politick]

71. There's no need

to spin it. It won't even be on the table. No one will run this, or care abou ti.

[swag]

8. Let Freedom Reign!

[UpInArms]

10. I am so sorry for all of the lives lost, ruined and destroyed

by the reckless and feckless policies of this maladministration.

:cry:

[truthseeker1]

12. RATE THIS STORY!!!

.....culture of life eh?

[Gregorian]

13. LinkTV reported over 30,000 deaths a couple of months ago.

And people didn't believe me when I posted it.
The media is to blame for this. Watching the REAL news, which is hard to find, I recoil in fear and sadness, on a nightly basis. But hardly anyone else sees these broadcasts. Had this been shown on television, the country would never ever has stood up for prolonging it.
This war IS affecting us. Whether we see the deaths now, or later, we will become aware. And we will suffer greatly for it.
And let us not forget that even worse things are being ignored in Darfur. It's not all of our responsibility, but we just spent $4 billion on an election, and billions more on a war, all while these people starve.
I feel shame, as an American.

[Minstrel Boy]

14. "Is the price worth it?"

I don't want to step on the toes of the Madeleine Albright fans, but I can't see this figure without thinking of another.

From 60 Minutes, 5/12/96:

LESLEY STAHL, on US sanctions against Iraq: We have heard that a half million children have died. I mean, that's more children than died in Hiroshima. And, you know, is the price worth it?

ALBRIGHT: I think this is a very hard choice, but the price--we think the price is worth it.

http://www.fair.org/extra/0111/iraq.html

It's a hard truth, but Iraqi life is considered about as cheap as it comes, and will remain so, regardless of next Tuesday's outcome.

[Judi Lynn]

20. Sorry you need to point it out. I was startled when I read what she said.

Up to that time, I had been laboring under the impression we were, in the main, far more humane that her remarks informed us all.

I've NEVER respected anything about her since she uttered those very words.

I'm afraid you're right. Maybe our new President will make a positive difference. Hardly could get worse.

[Minstrel Boy]

15. "Saddam has killed his thousands, and Bush his tens of thousands."

Has a nice biblical ring for the Cradle of Civilization.

[wiggs]

16. Afganistan numbers

Add in Afganistan, and then you have to assume that the war in both places is not close to being over and you start to realize the true cost of the war.

I wish those campaigning could have elevated awareness about the real costs of the Iraqi war as opposed to talking so much about 200 billion spent. The true numbers of dead and wounded on both sides has never gotten air time and analysis.

It is sobering to realize that for every grieving family in the US, there are nearly 100 grieving families in Iraq.

[Minstrel Boy]

17. sobering

"It is sobering to realize that for every grieving family in the US, there are nearly 100 grieving families in Iraq."

And the population of Iraq is less than a tenth of that of the US.

[JusticeForAll]

18. This is the "success" Cheney was talking about, right?

:cry: :cry:

Rate it a 5.

[Wind Dancer]

19. This is heartbreaking!

I don't even have the words to describe the pain I feel for this poor country.

:cry: Will this ever end?

NOT IN MY NAME!

[GliderGuider]

21. It may in fact be worse than this.

According to an apparently knowledgable contributor on another board,

Someone had the guts to finally publish figures released by The State Department's US Agency for International Development and The Office of Foreign Disaster Assistance. It's not a pretty picture. I know several DoD related think thanks were placing the civilian death toll closer to 300,000 - and that was just for the first 6 months. I think the Brookings Institute said 500,000 over 1 year.

This is utterly hearbreaking.

[Alpharetta]

46. Any links to those figures?

I'd be interested.

I'm having a hard time convincing folks the 100,000 number has any credibility.

[Alpharetta]

64. I can't find the numbers you're quoting

[GliderGuider]

76. Further discussion with that poster

He indicated after I posted this that these were pre-war estimates that by those organizations. I think they may have been published on paper but not on the net. I trust him, but unfortunately I can't validate his information.

[maddezmom]

22. AP Link: more info

The report was released just days before the U.S. presidential election, and the lead researcher said he wanted it that way. The Lancet routinely publishes papers on the Web before they appear in print, particularly if it considers the findings of urgent public health interest.


Those reports then appear later in the print issue of the journal. The journal's spokesmen said they were uncertain which print issue the Iraqi report would appear in and said it was too late to make Friday's issue, and possibly too late for the Nov. 5 edition.


Les Roberts, the lead researcher from Johns Hopkins, said the article's timing was up to him.


"I emailed it in on Sept. 30 under the condition that it came out before the election," Roberts told The Asocciated Press. "My motive in doing that was not to skew the election. My motive was that if this came out during the campaign, both candidates would be forced to pledge to protect civilian lives in Iraq (news - web sites).


http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20041028/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_death_toll&cid=540&ncid=1480

[saigon68]

23. These are WAR CRIMES on a par with Stalin, Hitler Pol Pot

The Bush criminals need to go to the Hague. (Small chance of that ever happening)

[gottaB]

32. or Putin

From the NewScientist.com:

The figure of 100,000 is based on "conservative assumptions", notes Les Roberts at Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, Baltimore, US, who led the study.

That estimate excludes Falluja, a hotspot for violence. If the data from this town is included, the study points to about 200,000 excess deaths since the outbreak of war.

http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99996596

Fallujah is our Grozny. Nothing good will come of it.

[leftchick]

24. Wow... so this mean bush* has killed more people than saddam...

that must make bush a bad bad man. Time for regime change and put him on trial!

[JSJ]

74. don't forget the contribution 'the troops' made

[Guy_Montag]

25. I've just been reading FR's take on this

now that makes me really want to cry.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1260238/posts

[ramapo]

26. Let me guess ( I refuse to go there)

It's ONLY Iraqis

[DrWeird]

34. "better them then me"

and

"in the name of science, I suggest repeating the experiment." (as long as I don't have to fight)

[gottaB]

37. They're latching on to the phrase "limited precision"

The Free Republic 5-Step Guide to Precise Moral Resoluteness:

1. Find an enemy.
   
   
2. If an enemy can't be found, create one.
   
   
3. Cheer the launch of precision weapons in complete disregard of the known limits of their precision and the imprecise selection of targets.
   
   
4. Deride estimates of casualties that acknowledge limited precision.
   
   
5. Lather, rinse, repeat.
   

[classof56]

61. I can't go to FR, but I did see this post on the yahoo msg board:

"That should read '100,000 enemy'." It's impossible to know how to respond to that. Such heartlessness defies reason. We can't rewrite the last four years of history, but we can change the future.

DEFEAT BUSH!!

[vet_against_Bush]

27. Horrible! nt

[shanti]

28. it's genocide

pure and simple

[JETS]

30. Don't you just love the people who say they are voting

for *Bush because he is pro-life!

[radar]

31. And how many does Osama...

...Get credited for killing? Less than 5,000?

Bush's "cure" for stopping terrorism is doing more harm than the disease of Al Queda.

[prayin4rain]

33. Oh No!!!!! I thought the number was a quarter of that and THAT was

horrible enough. Oh I just might cry right here at work. How awful.
How dare those bastards.

[riverwalker]

35. 40,000 CHILDREN

since bombs do not discriminate, and according to CIA population data of Iraq:

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/iz.html#People

Age structure:
0-14 years: 40.3% (male 5,198,966; female 5,039,173)
15-64 years: 56.7% (male 7,280,167; female 7,094,688)
65 years and over: 3% (male 357,651; female 404,046)

[Khaotic]

38. Shrub Wouldn't Care, Probably Give The Bird

For those that don't know, Video Vote Vigil released a video of Shrub giving the bird ... caught on video.

http://www.videovotevigil.org/

The above gif came from that video. I haven't posted enough to start my own post yet, but be my guest to save the gif and post it as your own post. It would be great to see this travel through the 'Net like wildfire. America really needs to know what this guy is about.

Do people REALLY want to see this guy as our president for another four years?

[Khaotic]

65. someone took out my little gif

... so here it is again.

[NNN0LHI]

39. THE MASS GRAVES! WHERE ARE WE DIGGING THE MASS GRAVES?

And why do they hate us?

Don

[Hatalles]

41. AP Article on Yahoo Frontpage

Here's the link. Rate away.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=540&e=6&u=/ap/20041028/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_death_toll_4

[ninkasi]

42. We are talking about the number of deaths

Remember, for each death, there will be many more injured, some horrifically. Children are left orphans, families will be ruined, there will be loss of limbs, serious head traumas, all caused by this vile, contemptible, miserable failure of a man.

Look at the harm he has caused Iraq, and all for NOTHING. No WMDs, no ties to al Qaeda, nothing but death and injuries, and bitterness and pain. Our country has been divided more than any time since the Civil War. He has bankrupt our treasury,and given his cronies unlimited access to anything they feel like taking.

It's simply incredible to me that we have allowed all this to happen in four years. I believe that John Kerry will win, but that Bush will try to remain in power, using any means he can. Getting him and the necons, the frothing at the mouth religious nut jobs, and the destruction of a fair court system in favor of packing it with right-wing extremist judges is what we face if he doesn't get voted out by such a huge margin that even Karl Rove will concede defeat.

[Hornito]

43. Proof that Bush, Cheney, and the neocons are war criminals.

My god, 100,000 mostly women and children. Was the oil and the neocons dreams worth it? Bastards!

This needs to be kept kicked.

[baldguy]

44. And freepers wonder why they hate us.

[Minstrel Boy]

45. 600,000 Cambodian deaths are directly attributed to US bombing.

In 1995 Vietnam released figures that a total of one million Vietnamese combatants and four million civilians were killed in the war.

Still early days in Iraq.

[Laughing Mirror]

47. Death rate was already astronomic in Iraq before the war

Because of that decade of air strikes and sanctions denying basic medicine and wiping out a million or so, mostly kids, according to WHO estimates. Now the same moral authorities responsible for those sanctions and strikes and no-fly zones, the US and the UK, have with this all out war, resorted to an even more violent method of Iraqi removal. How many more millions of the 24 million or so remaining are acceptable to slaughter, according to the Madeline Albright formula, to make the whole project worth it?

[MisterP]

59. and this 100K (200K if Fallujah is included, New Scientist says)

is ON TOP of the prewar death toll--even though the sanctions are lifted!

[Gothic Sponge]

48. Can someone tell me who is the "madman " again?

So sick!!!! I'm ashamed to be an American under Bush!

[ilovenicepeople]

69. what a coincidence!

I'm so ashamed to be a human being under bush :cry:

[DerekG]

50. And I'm voting for two men who gave a blank check to Nero...

Oh yeah, I forgot, Kerry and Edwards had no idea they were participating in the latter day Gulf of Tonkin resolution. They had no fucking idea--honest injun'.

Is it common to feel ill after casting one's vote for the Democratic ticket?

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

52. So sick

this just makes me cry. I want to be stop being made to feel ashamed of my country all the time. I can just see what my repuke acquaintances would say: "eh--they're just Iraqis."

Not like they matter.

:cry:

[LibDemAlways]

53. And this slaughter is being carried out with

our tax dollars. When you think of the good that could be done with those billions -- the problems that could be addressed that are at the root cause of terrorism. And we waste it on killing innocent people and creating more terrorists. So shameful.

[jeanmarc]

54. I feel a great shame to be an American

Words cannot describe the shame I have thanks to these ill-deeds. To do this to another nation in the guise of a war of terror is one of the all time evil acts this country has participated in.

We owe the Iraqi people SOMETHING to pay for this. I cannot believe they would think that removing 100,000 or even 200,000 of their citizens was worth it to remove Saddam from power. Death would have done that.

[NV1962]

58. 100 Iraqi civilians for every dead US soldier - mission accomplished!

Good thing the cretin-in-chief didn't send half a million troops into Iraq, or pledged to kill 1,000 civilians for every US soldier - he would have been forced to exterminate all Iraqis to make up for those he sent to their deaths on his "godsent" dual-purpose oil control / terrorist recruitment campaign...

Can we now toss the genocidal maniac out of the WH or what?

[USA_1]

62. "excess deaths"

The article does not define "excess deaths".

Does anyone know what exactly does this term mean?

http://tinyurl.com/4htbd

[rentogen]

63. The world is safer...

with Saddam Hussein out of power. But the loss of life in Iraq is staggering. Can we say the world is safer with George Bush in power? Only by ignoring the value of all of those Iraqi lives.

[Freedomofspeech]

66. Doesn't it make you so proud?

Americans just don't get it. They think these poor people deserve to die. What did they do to us? NOTHING. Born again bush and all of his sick "Christian" followers will some day pay a price for this. I guess this is what God told him to do. Well, not my God, and bush has never been my president.

[gjb]

68. According to Communist sources at FReepville it's "only" 10,000

Posted by Blue Collar Christian....

"This commie website says it's ~15,000." http://www.iraqbodycount.net/

[politick]

70. ***

From Johnny Got His Gun:

"Numbers have dehumanized us. Over breakfast coffee we read of 40,000 American dead in Vietnam. Instead of vomiting, we reach for the toast. Our morning rush through crowded streets is not to cry murder but to hit the trough before somebody else gobbles our share. An equation: 40,000 dead young men=3,000 tons of bone and flesh, 124,000 pounds of brain matter, 50,000 gallons of blood, 1,840,000 years of life that will never be lived, 100,000 children that will never be born."

[tigre]

72. Thank You Michael Bloomberg!!!!

Right now I bet the GOP isn't too happy with the way he spent his $107 million dollars in disposable income.

And maybe he's regretting the schools name change too... (formerly Johns Hopkins School of Hygiene and Public Health)

[Zorra]

75. * is getting right up there with Pol Pot as one of the most prolific mass

murderers in history. If 100,000 were killed, probably 200,000 others were badly injured.

This is truly a national disgrace, and I am ashamed of the United States for doing this to innocent people for no reason whatsoever except so that * and his friends could make a bunch of money.:cry:

[pippin]

77. Start Calling This the Iraqi Holocaust

Holocaust : the massive destruction of humans by other humans.


This needs to go down in history as genocide on par with all the other historical atrocties. That way Bush and co., will go down forever as one of history's monsters along with Hitler, Pot Pol and yes, Sadam.

[realFedUp]

78. kick

coz this just didn't get airtime.

[Briar]

79. click

here

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1340562,00.html

for Scott Ritter's excellent commentary.

[Just Me]

80. The neoCONs: responsible for over 100K deaths of innocents.

They did nothing to us,...they did not threaten our security.

[JoFerret]

81. This has to be the big story

This is so dreadful...and all in our name. With our money and at the cost of our lives and our futures and our security.
How can those planners of this fiasco hold their heads and talk of freedom. It defies logic and morality.

[Gregorian]

82. I can't imagine the overwhelming grief.

These evil republicans did this. THEY have this responsibilty squarely on their shoulders. They don't even know it. They don't even care. And we can't bring back the dead fathers and mothers and children. What kind of family values do those idiots think they've brought to the world.
I'm so angry. I watched this. I found means by which I could see the real news. The nightly middle eastern news. It was, and is, horrible. America has a soul, unbeknownst to republicans. And that soul is in great pain. Just think if this happened to us. Our homes destroyed. Our friends killed. It's overwhelming in sadness.

I must say how proud I am of everyone at DU. You have lifted me up. We could have never done this alone. Thank you all for caring.