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McCAIN WON!!!! (Saddleback).....according to Wm. Kristol

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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-18-08 08:49 AM
Original message
McCAIN WON!!!! (Saddleback).....according to Wm. Kristol
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/18/opinion/18kristol.html?_r=1&ref=opinion&oref=slogin

The event was worth watching — and for me yielded three conclusions.

First, Rick Warren should moderate one of the fall presidential debates.

Second, it was McCain’s night.

Obama made no big mistakes. But his tendency to somewhat windy generalities meant he wasn’t particularly compelling. McCain, who went second, was crisp by contrast, and his anecdotes colorful.

Now I’m not entirely unbiased (!), so I don’t quite trust my initial judgment in such matters. But it was confirmed the next morning. NBC’s Andrea Mitchell reported on “Meet the Press” that “the Obama people must feel that he didn’t do quite as well as they might have wanted to in that context. ... What they’re putting out privately is that McCain ... may have had some ability to overhear what the questions were to Obama.”

There’s no evidence that McCain had any such advantage. But the fact that Obama’s people made this suggestion means they know McCain outperformed him.

Third, Obama and McCain really do have different “worldviews,” to use Rick Warren’s term. (you've never heard the term "worldview" before????)

Perhaps the most revealing moment was the two candidates’ response to a question about evil. Yes, evil — that negation of the good that, Friedrich Nietzsche to the contrary notwithstanding, we seem not to have moved beyond.

Warren asked whether evil exists and if it does, “do we ignore it? Do we negotiate with it? Do we contain it? Do we defeat it?”

Obama and McCain agreed evil exists and couldn’t be ignored. But then their answers diverged.

Obama said that “we see evil all the time” — in Darfur, on the streets of our cities, in child abusers. Such evils, he continued, need to be “confronted squarely.” And while we can’t “erase evil from the world,” we can be “soldiers” in the task of confronting it when we see it.

But, Obama added, “Now, the one thing that I think is very important is for us to have some humility” as we confront evil. Why? Because “a lot of evil has been perpetrated based on the claim that we were trying to confront evil.” After all, “just because we think our intentions are good doesn’t always mean that we’re going to be doing good.”

It’s nice to see a liberal aware of the limits of good intentions — indeed, that the road to hell is paved with them. But here as elsewhere, Obama stayed at a high level of abstraction. It would have been interesting if Warren had asked a follow-up question: Where in particular has the United States in recent years — at home or especially abroad — perpetrated evil in the name of confronting evil? Hasn’t the overwhelming problem been, rather, a reluctance to effectively confront evil — in Darfur, or Rwanda, or pre-9/11 Afghanistan?

John McCain appears to think so. Unlike Obama, he took the question about evil to be in the first instance about 9/11. McCain asserted that “of course evil must be defeated,” and he put “radical Islamic extremism,” Al Qaeda in particular, at the top of his to-defeat list. In this context, McCain discussed the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and concluded by mentioning “the young men and women who are serving this nation in uniform.”

So while Obama talked of confronting evil, McCain spoke of defeating it. Obama took the view that evil is generally abroad in the world; McCain focused on radical Islam and 9/11. Obama claimed that all of us must be metaphorical “soldiers” against evil; McCain paid tribute to actual American soldiers. And McCain couldn’t resist saying again Saturday night that if he has to follow Osama bin Laden to the gates of hell to get him and bring him to justice, he’ll do so.

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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-18-08 08:51 AM
Response to Original message
1. There's that word "crisp" again. . . hmmmmm.
:eyes:
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27inCali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-18-08 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. he was anything but crisp
more like over anxious and insincere.
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-18-08 08:53 AM
Response to Original message
2. Hey it's not hard to "win" when you cheat and make up answers
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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-18-08 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. but but but Bill said right there that there was NO EVIDENCE of that
and he knows ALL ABOUT evidence (or the lack there of)
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jimshoes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-18-08 08:59 AM
Response to Original message
4. Well if mister I have yet to be right about anything says so
that's it then.
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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-18-08 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
5. The tables were stacked against Obama in the first place
All this dog and pony show as a biblical type Pharisees trapping Jesus set up.
McCone wouldn't even have to show up to have won.

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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-18-08 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. MTP had two short clips
on the "Is there evil?" question.

Obama gave a considered and inclusive answer

McCain said "defeat it" and there was a thunderous ovation

That was all I need to hear and see to know that it was a stacked deck.

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otohara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-18-08 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Yep, Waste of Obama's Time
I mean really, they went nuts over "off shore drilling" - Is pillaging the earth of all her resources a godly thing to do?
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