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Can the GOP Steal The Election Again? You Betcha!

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CrisisPapers Donating Member (271 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-08 09:02 AM
Original message
Can the GOP Steal The Election Again? You Betcha!
| Ernest Partridge |

John McCain's campaign is imploding as the presidential candidate lapses into incoherence and petulance, and his running-mate becomes a national laughing-stock. In the face of an impending economic meltdown, the Democratic candidates, Obama and Biden, appear to be the only adults in the contest. Meanwhile, the GOP's erstwhile dependable allies, the corporate media, are displaying moments of journalistic integrity. This presents a problem for the Republican ticket for, as Stephen Colbert aptly observed, "reality has a liberal bias."

And so the polls show an expanding lead for Obama over McCain, with no clear indication that the trend might reverse.

Conventional political "wisdom" tells us that Barack Obama and Joe Biden may be on the road to a substantial victory in November.

Sorry, folks, but I'll have to rain on this parade.

Have you forgotten? Private Republican corporations count and compile the votes with secret and unverifiable software! Just as they did in 2000 and in 2004, and we all know how that turned out.

Accordingly, the stark fact remains: the Republicans might "win" this election, regardless of the preference of the voters. The culprits who rigged the previous elections are fully aware that they might face hard time in the federal slammer if President Obama's Attorney General is ordered to investigate past elections. Thus they are acutely motivated to use their considerable resources to keep Obama out of the White House.

And that's just the beginning: the GOP is waging a multi-front war on our democracy. As Mark Crispin Miller describes the situation in a recent e-mail:

The ground has been prepared for yet another stolen race, Bush/Cheney's party having made enormous strides in sabotaging our election system (while the Democrats just sat there, whistling). Now, from coast to coast, it's far more difficult (for Democrats) to register to vote, and far more difficult (for Democrats) to cast their votes, while countless (Democratic) voters have been stricken from the rolls, through purges carried out by the Department of Justice.

Thus Bush's government has legally diminished the electorate (the Roberts Court approving every step). Meanwhile, the regime also continues to suppress the (Democratic) vote illegally, either through voter "caging" prior to Election Day--or, far more effectively, by fiddling with the numbers electronically at every level, and/or simply dumping countless names (of Democrats) from the electronic voter rolls, and/or putting far too few machines in (Democratic) polling places, and/or disinforming (Democratic) voters as to when and where to cast their votes, and/or simply scaring (Democratic) voters into staying home.

Happy talk notwithstanding, the situation facing the Democrats is desperate. But it is not hopeless.

However, if the Obama-Biden team is to win, it must win big. Less than 60% of the actual popular vote puts the contest into "The Diebold Zone," whereby a McCain-Palin win becomes plausible in the public mind, and the "paperless" GOP voting machines and their secret software take care of the rest.

That "big win" is within reach, but only through determined and energetic activity by the supporters of the Democratic candidates, and through brilliant tactics and inspiring leadership by the Democratic candidates and their managers.

In particular:

Registration and Turnout

The coordinated Republican effort at massive disenfranchisement can and must be overwhelmed.
If, as is likely, the GOP succeeds in keeping as many as five million Democratic voters from the polls, the Democrats in turn must register and send to the polls, ten million more. In addition, the word must go out that no one can assume that his or her vote is secure. Citizens must be urged to validate their registration status immediately. They can do so by contacting their Register of Voters, or http://www.nationalcampaignforfairelections.org/page/m/6fb7d6c557b8c01f/c1pWrk/VEsH">by following this link.

Publicizing the Electoral Integrity Issue

The looming probability of another stolen election must be made vivid in the public consciousness. To date, the corporate media has refused to investigate and report election fraud, and the Democratic Party, amazingly, has behaved as if it either doesn't know or doesn't care that it has been robbed of election victories time and again. All this, despite the fact that electoral irregularities have been staring us in the face: the "butterfly ballots" and "holocaust survivors for Buchanan" in Palm Beach, Florida in 2000, the "lost" 16,000 democratic votes in the 2006 Florida 13th District Congressional election, the Diebold President's "visit" to Atlanta just prior to the 2002 election that cost the highly favored Max Cleland his Senate Seat, the destroyed and "lost" evidence in the 2004 Ohio election, and much, much, more.

In the face of such irregularities, and despite the media embargo, much of the public is suspicious of the electoral process. A September, 2006, Zogby poll disclosed that less than half of the American public was "very confident," and about a third "not at all confident," that George Bush won the 2004 election "fair and square." This suspicion must now be amplified and transformed into a demand that the next election be "fair and square."

Validating the Vote

Independent exit polls must be employed in battleground states that use paperless "direct recording electronic" (DRE) voting machines. In these states, the Attorneys General and the Secretaries of State must secure evidence such as computer hard drives, ballots, registration rolls, etc. and make it abundantly clear that destruction or hiding of such evidence will be prosecuted, as will any vote rigging that might be disclosed by such evidence. (In Ohio, the unexplained and illegal destruction of the 2004 voting records of 55 of the 88 counties, and the disappearance of crucial computer hard drives, have gone unpunished. This lost evidence alone might have proved the theft of the Ohio electoral votes, and with them the theft of the national election).

There are other means of exposing and deterring election fraud which, unfortunately, are unlikely to be employed this close to the election. . In randomly selected precincts a few DRE machines might be removed and examined for accuracy, or voters might be asked to vote both on the DRE machines and on paper ballots with the totals subsequently compared. Independent and parallel means of totaling ("compiling") and transmitting election returns would uncover illegal alterations of the vote.

Absent these effective modes of validation, it is essential that a massive number of Democratic poll workers and poll watchers (equipped with video cameras) be on hand on election day.

The Stakes

John McCain has repeatedly betrayed an inadequate and confused knowledge of foreign affairs, as he refers to non-existent countries and non-existent borders, confuses Shias and Sunnis, and fails to recognize leaders of allied nations. His "economic policy" consists of recitations of discredited slogans.

Given John McCain's age and physical condition, it is likely that if the Republican team wins in November, Sarah Palin will one day become the President of the United States, either during or following McCain's term of office. As Palin proves almost every time she opens her mouth, no candidate in U.S. history has been less qualified for that office. Still worse, her repertory of bizarre religious beliefs is downright frightening. Beliefs in witchcraft, "Young Earth Creationism," the "end of days," a denial of anthropogenic climate change, absolute prohibition of abortion and stem-cell research – all of these are profoundly discordant with the problems faced by a great power in the twenty-first century.

A Political Realignment

The traditional Republican power base of financiers, business people, corporate managers, etc., has seen control of their party slip into the hands of religious zealots and market dogmatists. The religious fundamentalists recruited by the Republicans to supply the votes required for political clout have taken over the party to the point of installing one of their own as the Vice Presidential candidate.

As a result, many influential conservative Republicans have declared outright that they can not align themselves with the religious right, and with Sarah Palin in particular. Among these apostates are David Brooks, Charles Krauthammer, Kathleen Parker and David Frum,.

No doubt, there are many more, some of whom will be heard in these final four weeks before the election. Many of these individuals are caught in a difficult dilemma, as they realize that in spite of what might be good for their party, the election of McCain and Palin, might not be good for the nation, its economy, and its international reputation. Those who place their loyalty to their country above their loyalty to their party may soon step forward and be heard: while the Republican Party, they might say, can survive defeat in November, the United States might not survive a McCain, and, eventually, a Palin presidency.

Summing Up

As election day approaches, the public clamor for change in Washington must become sufficiently intense that the media can not ignore it, and the Republicans dare not resist it. There must be an intensity of rejection of the party in power combined with uniting behind a reformer that has not been seen since FDR's election in 1932. Given the breadth and depth of corruption and lawlessness in the Bush/Cheney regime, the unpopularity of the Iraq war, and the collapse of the economy, such a time might again be upon us.

The usually pessimistic http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/17713">David Michael Green concedes as much:

It's been a bumpy ride, 2008 has. This election should have been an earthquake, a hurricane, a tsunami – pick your natural disaster metaphor (or combine them for exciting new variations!) – just waiting for the calendar to run out and make it official.

In the end, it looks like that's how it will be after all. One gets the sense now that the laws of physics are finally reasserting themselves, and modest measures of sanity are stubbornly reclaiming their inevitable places. This is true both in the proximate sense, as Election 2008 now appears to be coming in for a landing, but also more broadly, as the last year or two perhaps mark the end of an era in American politics.

It remains to be seen if Barack Obama can survive the smears about to be dumped on him, and emerge in the public mind as a plausible instrument of hope and renewal. If so, it is just possible that an overwhelming outpouring of public support just might overcome another Republican attempt to steal the election.

At this moment, a month away from the election, the issue is very much in doubt.

-- EP
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-08 09:12 AM
Response to Original message
1. If the GOP steals this election if would mean that Democrats are totally feckless and impotent
to stop them, but Republicans are not this omnipotent and unstoppable juggernaut. Barack Obama has said he does not do cowering and neither should we. The GOP can "try" and steal this election, but that does not mean they will succeed and they will not as long as Democrats remain vigilant and fight hard to the end. So let's make this such a crushing defeat that it cannot be stolen.
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Tigress DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-08 01:49 AM
Response to Reply #1
42. The point is REMAIN Vigilant and fight it to the end.
Just because it looks good now, we can not relax and let it ride until the election.

AND we need to be OUT THERE about their election shennanigans BEFORE they happen.



People in New Jersey THROWN off the voter rolls because they were on Foreclosure lists. Was being challanged by John Conyers, but then the financial crises came along.

"Perfect Match" in the Help America Vote Act being used by RNC to cage voters and help them NOT vote.

New rules about early voting and absentee voting that could result in those votes getting tossed in the trash can if a color copy of the govt issued photo id is not included with it.

Flyers sent out telling people if they have outstanding parking tickets or any other warrants they will be arrested if they show up to vote.

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Lautremont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-08 09:39 AM
Response to Original message
2. I would go so far as to say that if the Democrats allow this election to be stolen
they honestly don't deserve to run the country. Not that the Republicans would, but if the Dems fuck this up, or allow it to be fucked up, they clearly haven't the strategic chops or the cunning they would need if they were in charge.
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Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-08 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #2
15. Until which time I am able to leave this country, If the pubs are
allowed to steal this election, I will never vote again.
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-08 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #15
21. This is why the issue is a favorite of the voting boycott partisans (GOP dirty tricksters)
They want you to NOT vote! Well, maybe not you, but Dems who will vote Dem.
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Tigress DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-08 01:40 AM
Response to Reply #15
40. I understand how you feel, but we can't LET them WIN by cheating.
It cheapens EVERYTHING we stand for.

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Tigress DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-08 01:34 AM
Response to Reply #2
38. Would you say that to a person whose house is broken into by the FBI?
Would you say that to a gay person who gets beat up in the course of going about his/her daily business because the police turn the other way?

YES. WE MUST FIGHT THIS EVERY STEP OF THE WAY, but just because corruption has it's dirty little hands dug deep into the rethug party and will go to lower and lower means necessary to win at all costs, DON'T blame the DEMS if these election stealing PROs can pull it off again.

BLAME THE ASSHOLES DOING THE CRIME OF ELECTION FRAUD.


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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-08 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #2
49. It is not the Democrats that will allow..
this election to be stolen, it is 'we the people'. Those votes are ours, and it is our state governments that are responsible for providing us with secure or insecure voting systems. If we kick back, and don't even require our state government to do the right thing, how the hell can we blame the "Democrats"? There are 18 states that have legislated paper ballots and standard audits after each election. There are 19 that still use DRE's with no way to conduct any recount whatsoever. How is that the "Democrats" fault?

http://www.verifiedvoting.org/index.php
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-08 11:10 AM
Response to Original message
3. Trying to Steal This Election Would Be Like Carrying Water in a Sieve
Edited on Tue Oct-07-08 11:11 AM by Demeter
It cannot be done without being so obviously cheating as to nullify the attempt. That's not to say that somebody may not try, but would you risk jail for John McCain?

He hasn't got that kind of pull (or money) behind him.

This tsunami will not only surf Obama into office, it will also have coat tails to drag enough Democrats (real Democrats) into Congress to make even that lever of power out of GOP reach. Then all we have to worry about is the Courts esp. the Big One, and the lobbyists.
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King Coal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-08 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. We said that last time.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-08 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Exactly.
Kerry won Ohio in 2004. Of this I have no doubt. And the tactics Republican operatives used in 2004 will be used again. Democrats that complain after the election will simply be labeled "sore losers" and that will be that. I doubt that any effort on the part of Democrats to make the election fair will be successful. Republicans will simply alter the election results. Sorry to be so glum.

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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-08 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #6
16. In All 50 States?
They could do it last time because it was so close...this time, it's a tsunami. We're going to take Texas, for god's sake! It's unstoppable.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-08 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #16
24. Brother, I wish you were right.
Texas, imagine if that were true. I would be excited to get Virginia!
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Tigress DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-08 01:38 AM
Response to Reply #16
39. I think the ACTUAL vote WILL be a LANDSLIDE, but not all votes have the same electoral value.
I DO NOT WANT there to be any chance. I WOULD LOVE TO SEE an 85% VICTORY, but if the rethugs don't win they will be alleging that we are cheating.

YEAH registering new voters and making sure that registered voters VOTES get counted.

WOW big cheating.

BUT I had a neighbor seriously tell me, "WELL, what about all those 'dead' people who were being used as voters?" I told her, other than in the movies I have NEVER heard of it happening. BUT I KNOW the vote was stolen in Ohio."

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Tigress DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-08 01:22 AM
Response to Reply #3
37. RNC is already alleging DEMS are registering voters illegally -- so a huge win will look suspect.
WE know it's real numbers because even the last two stolen elections actually went to the DEMs via the popular vote.

BUT the spew only has to last long enough to muscle the electoral votes into place.

WE can NOT rest until Obama has his seat planted in the Oval Office. DILLIGENCE.


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colsohlibgal Donating Member (670 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-08 11:54 AM
Response to Original message
5. I'm Still Anxious About Nov 4 but....
If the current rend continues, and it appears it's going to, the forces of evil may be up against it this time - Barack may go into that day with double digit leads, or close to it, in enough states to put him over 270, making it very hard for them to even semi seamlessly flip things.

That said who knows what this criminal neocon regime might do - but this time, if they try it, they may see a new age "Boston Tea Party" like rebellion, a huge segment of the population is hurting that much and are mad as hell and not going to be taking it anymore, ala Howard Beal in "Network".
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-08 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #5
25. colsohlibgal, it's the popular vote count in the states that determines
the electoral vote count. OBAMA MUST WIN THE STATE POPULAR VOTE to get the electoral vote. And it's the state vote counts that are the ones that GET FLIPPED, not the electoral votes.

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sce56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-08 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #5
31. But have you not heard people only say they will vote for a black man then pull the lever for McCain
Edited on Tue Oct-07-08 07:24 PM by sce56
I have heard plenty of that Horeshit in the M$Media! And why did Kerry not pursue the theft of the election in 04?
We even have video of them admitting to the theft before the fact!

(yes Nancy's Daughter) catches a tipsy Congressman Peter King making a comment at a White House function before the election had even been started declaring that, "It's already over. The Election's over. We Won."

When Pelosi asks, "How do you know that?" King replies, "It's all over but the counting. And we'll take care of the counting."
This was recorded in he summer of 2003 a year before the 2004 election! Elections have been stolen for the last two presidential races the whole thing is just a sham now. See http://www.theonion.com/content/video... for a parody of what really happens in the elections now days bring back Paper Ballots electronic voting is always hacked! "It's not the people who vote that count. It's the people who count the votes."-Josef Stalin



If the country had been paying attention Shrub never really was fairly elected! Just by the sheer numbers of votes that were spoiled in 2000 not to mention the electronic vote flipping that happened in Volusia county and the 70,000 people of color that were kept away from the polls or had there names removed from the rolls by Jeb Bush and his Sec of State whats her name! Then the same thing again in 04 in Ohio when voting machines were very few to find in heavy Democratic districts with people waiting hours in line in the rain to vote and then being given the wrong ballots so their vote was uncountable even the recount was faked and several people, Ohio county elections employees, were convicted of falsifying the recount! Even in 06 the tide would have been bigger for the Democratic party if the Electronic voting machines were truly faultless!





I wonder if they will look at the web site for the VP Granny www.votefortheGILF.com which directs you to the JohnMcSame web site with the GILF herself introducing on video!
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SeeTheFuture Donating Member (8 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-08 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
7. Enough already
Please provide just a smidgen of proof of your conspiracy theory. Not flames, just something real. Let's focus on real issues and turnout, not some crazy, rehashed, we're victims scenario. Gore lost in a fair election until PROVEN otherwise. There were no realistic claims of cheating in the Kerry election. Let's focus on winning by winning the issues. This type of rhetoric make Dems look unrealistic and out of touch. Obama 08!
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-08 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #7
22. U: "Gore lost in a fair election until PROVEN otherwise." Hello! Proven and reproven!!
Bye!
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keepCAblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-08 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #7
28. If there's anyone who's out of touch....omg. n/t
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Botany Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-08 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #7
52. Florida 2000
"DELAND, Fla., Nov. 11 - Something very strange happened on election night to Deborah Tannenbaum, a Democratic Party official in Volusia County. At 10 p.m., she called the county elections department and learned that Al Gore was leading George W. Bush 83,000 votes to 62,000. But when she checked the county's Web site for an update half an hour later, she found a startling development: Gore's count had dropped by 16,000 votes, while an obscure Socialist candidate had picked up 10,000--all because of a single precinct with only 600 voters."
- Washington Post Sunday , November 12, 2000 ; Page A22
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-09-08 02:20 AM
Response to Reply #7
53. Fuck off, Republican filth.
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ailsagirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-08 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
8. Kick
Maybe they're just letting their campaign slide because they know they're going to win (by hook or by crook).
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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-08 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
9. This time the polls are strongly favoring Obama - a steal would be too obvious
and I am fearful of massive rioting if the republicans make the steal that obvious
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ailsagirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-08 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. I'm hoping that it would be too obvious-- I'm hoping for a veritable
landslide by Obama, making it far too obvious for the neocons to steal it.
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-08 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. I am not "fearful" of "massive rioting" if the repukes steal it....
I am going to be one of those "rioting" and DEMANDING that obama be the next president!

It is nothing to FEAR - but it is something THEY better "fear" because I will damn well make sure it happens THIS time around!!!
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keepCAblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-08 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #9
29. We were saying the exact same thing back in 2004 about Kerry...
...and come election day, Kerry was the landslide winner according to exit polls. Deja vu?
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Tigress DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-08 01:43 AM
Response to Reply #9
41. Just remain vigilant. AND remember, every time we think they've gone as low as they can go...
What they will probably do is "let" Obama win and then challange the election results.



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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-08 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
10. This is my greatest fear right now.
Edited on Tue Oct-07-08 01:10 PM by BrklynLiberal
It terrifies me, and makes me physically ill.
I know that Obama MUST win in a literal landslide so that there is no possible way that the repukes can steal it..

I cannot even imagine how horrible things would be if McSame and the barracuda get into the White House...
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ailsagirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-08 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. Ditto ditto ditto
I worry far less about Obama's getting the votes than the neocons stealing them. I know he's tremendously popular and he belongs in the White House. But still it gnaws at me.
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Frisbee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-08 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #10
30. I really fear...
that were McPOW to win, then Palin somehow end up in the Oval Office, we'd long for the good old days of a Bush/Cheney Whitehouse. She is batshit crazy and on an intellectual par with Bush at best. As bad as things are now, she'd almost certainly destroy this country.
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paparush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-08 01:13 PM
Response to Original message
11. Why else would an active duty Army combat brigade be brought home to deal with "civil unrest"?
I mean CMON..the writing's on the wall in 4' tall letters.

"We're gonna steal it and we bet you sheep don't have the balls to try to do anything about it!!!"

The Bush, Cheney, Rove hubris is completely intact. It hasn't been challenged. It has not abated. It has not been brought to heel by Congress.
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-08 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. To Escort Bush and Cheney Out of the Country into Exile
and prevent them from being lynched or arrested.
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paparush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-08 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. Interesting angle... nt
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Tigress DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-08 01:51 AM
Response to Reply #17
43. You are SUCH an Optimist. I really like it and in moments when I despair...
this little thought of them slinking off into the sunset will warm my heart and turn up my smile.

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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-08 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
18. Imagine how trusting we've been... and this going on since the 1960's .....
when the large computers used by media began to come on line ....

See: VOTESCAM - Collier Brothers investigation---

http://www.constitution.org/vote/votescam__.htm
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GreenTea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-08 03:01 PM
Response to Original message
19. Without even the slightest doubt in my mind, if the republicans can convince us the races is close
Edited on Tue Oct-07-08 03:03 PM by GreenTea
fix the polls and tell us it's closer than it really is, they will steal it, again, and the republicans & their media will say, "well, it looks like the weeks of negative campaigning and attacking Obama has paid off for McCain"....But, KNOW it's all BULLSHIT!!
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-08 03:59 PM
Response to Original message
23. NO. But they can lose it in all 50 states!
You need a reasonably close election to steal an election. It really is that simple.
Florida 2000 was just such a scenario, and, as has been clearly proven, that theft flipped American history.
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-08 05:40 PM
Response to Original message
26. Great post, crisispapers. PLEASE DO NOT BE FOOLED BY THE POLLS. They will very likely
GO DOWN FOR OBAMA as Nov. 4 nears. The Repukes are masters at infusing the airwaves with LIES AND MISINFORMATION during the last few weeks of the campaign. It's a tactic that has worked in the past and could work again.

If you have been reading the DU voter caging and voter registration threads for the last week, you have seen that the Repukes have ratcheted up their effort to steal the vote. Every day we read about another state and another scheme and more voters disenfranchised. This will only get worse in the weeks right before the election.

Don't forget it's the BUSH's U.S. ATTORNEYS who are the ones who are covering for many of these illegal schemes. Many of the states have Repuke SOS's or complicit Dems in charge of the voting process, as in New Mexico.

I have said this before and I'm going to say it again: the Democratic leadership is intentionally avoiding any mention of election theft and any action to stop it. They have stuck their heads in a place where they cannot and do not WANT to see what's going on. It is beyond my comprehension as to WHY, but it is a fact that THEY ARE IGNORING THIS THREAT TO OUR REPUBLIC.

Ernest, you brought up the point about all of the illegal acts in Ohio, such as destroying voting records and the disappearance of crucial hard drives. What legal action has been taken against anyone?? Nothing has been done. We should all be asking WHY this was ignored? Do the Democrats not want to have fair elections? I am absolutely stumped.

I think Obama must come in at 60 to 40 to get the WIN.


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sce56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-08 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #26
33. The Bush Family, BFEE, Pwned the Congress with Blackmail I'm sure!
Why else would they have their very own pedophile ring to trip up all politicians and then make them vote the way they want them too!



Gay Old Pedophile Perverted party


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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-08 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #26
50. Who is responsible for the voting systems..
you use in your state? The Democratic Leadership or your own Secretary of State?
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jennied Donating Member (547 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-08 05:43 PM
Response to Original message
27. This thread is depressing...
Obama is doing quite well. People said that he wouldn't make it passed Iowa. People said that he wouldn't win against Hillary. The GOP may try there best to steal the election, but this time around I don't think it's going to happen.

I'm remaining cautiously optimistic. We have a REAL chance here, but we should let our guard down either.
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HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-08 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #27
32. It's
past -- not passed. It's their -- not there. And finally, "we should let our guard down"?

Not sure you're making too strong a case there, jennied. It's depressing when this type of writing is posted in "support" of Obama.
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Mr_Jefferson_24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-08 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #27
48. Didn't Obama tend to win...
...where large scale theft was not plausible (caucus states, such as Iowa) and tend to lose in important states where electronic voting machines were used (states like New Hampshire, where pre-voting polls showed him with a significant lead over Hillary)?

The presidential election will not be determined by a national caucus.
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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-08 10:05 PM
Response to Original message
34. k&r n/t
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-08 11:08 PM
Response to Original message
35. Of course it's depressing. Who the fuck would get any pleasure out of this?
Someone said it's bullshit that people will say they'll vote for Obama, then vote for McAnus because they just can't pull the lever for a black man. I just heard that same thing from a woman who has been saying for months that she is ALL FOR OBAMA, then the other night, while we're discussing the runup to the VP debate, she says to me very hesitantly, "you know I guess I'm just not sure what he'd do when he gets into office because you know THOSE PEOPLE just feel like they have everything coming to them."

I almost fell out when I heard her say that. And even though I gave her reassuring thoughts on WHY Obama wouldn't even consider doing that, I know it's back there in the dark recesses of her mind, waiting to come out.

This is reality. Racism is embedded in the psyche of lots of folks in America. I just hope and pray to Dog that she and millions of others can find it in their hearts to do the right thing on election day.

P.S.

Tonight James Carville BROACHED THE TOPIC, albeit obliquely. I didn't catch the exact quote, but it went something like "if Obama is up by 5 points for weeks leading up to the election, and is up by 5 points right before the election and HE LOSES to McCain, . . . THERE'S GONNA BE A . . . . LOT OF DRAMA.

Boy, he wanted to say there's gonna be HELL TO PAY, but he didn't.

He's the heart of the DLC. Maybe something is about to change.

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LaPera Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-08 12:33 AM
Response to Original message
36. Absolutely the republicans are planning it, why not, they keep getting away with it...
Do you think they haven't been planning it every day for the past four years?
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Seldona Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-08 02:58 AM
Response to Original message
44. I wonder if an Obama win isn't a Rovian ploy?
I don't think anyone doubts that for the next President, the shit will be in mid hit against said fan from the day he assembles his transition team. Four years of dealing with all the consequences of decades of bad rethug decisions and they simply blame the Democratic Party.

Maybe I am just jaded? Who really knows? Not me. But as for my thoughts? It just makes tactical sense. Lose this one, leave the Democratic Party in near total control as said shit hits fan and keep your head down. Pretty simple.

Should we win we are facing two wars the majority of people on both sides hate, an economic crisis we don't even really know the true scope or consequences of, and a deficit that cons would FLIP about had a Democrat run up. If I were a Republican 'general' I would be pulling my ragtag troops back so they can rest up, reenforce, and fight another day.

What do they offer up as a loss? Some nobody from Alaska and a guy who has an extremely limited political career left. None of their heavy hitters take it on the chin for anything they've caused.

We need to expose each and every one of these scandels as they come down the pipe and keep the blame where it belongs. I know, I know, I am getting ahead of myself. We need to win first. I can say this though, if any team I have seen in my lifetime can get it done, it is team Obama. If this weekend showed anything, it showed that they are GREEEEEAT! (Said in my best Tony The Tiger voice.)

Sorry for rambling.
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OakCliffDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-08 04:55 AM
Response to Original message
45. Kick
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OneBlueSky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-08 06:48 AM
Response to Original message
46. you bet they're planning to steal it . . .
why wouldn't they? . . . they got away with it in 2000 and in 2004, and in some state races in 2006 . . . what's to stop them from doing it again? . . . the Congress? . . . the courts? . . . the corporate media? . . .

they have the means, they have the motive, and they have the opportunity . . . as well as a record of success in past elections . . . this may be all over before the first vote is even cast . . .
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Mr_Jefferson_24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-08 10:31 AM
Response to Original message
47. Kick.
When you think about the possibility of REAL investigations into the high crimes of the last eight years it is very difficult for me to believe the fix will not be in once again.

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balantz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-08 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
51. An "attack" or economic meltdown, shrubbie declares martial law,
and shrubbie installs Cheney's Trainee, little Nazi meat-puppet Palin.
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