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Why Is Damning New Evidence About Monsanto's Most Widely Used Herbicide Being Silenced?

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marmar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-30-11 08:22 AM
Original message
Why Is Damning New Evidence About Monsanto's Most Widely Used Herbicide Being Silenced?

AlterNet / By Jill Richardson

Why Is Damning New Evidence About Monsanto's Most Widely Used Herbicide Being Silenced?
It turns out that Monsanto's Roundup herbicide might not be nearly as safe as people have thought, but the media is staying mum on the revelation.

April 27, 2011 |


Dr. Don Huber did not seek fame when he quietly penned a confidential letter to Secretary of Agriculture Tom Vilsack in January of this year, warning Vilsack of preliminary evidence of a microscopic organism that appears in high concentrations in genetically modified Roundup Ready corn and soybeans and "appears to significantly impact the health of plants, animals and probably human beings." Huber, a retired Purdue University professor of plant pathology and U.S. Army colonel, requested the USDA's help in researching the matter and suggested Vilsack wait until the research was concluded before deregulating Roundup Ready alfalfa. But about a month after it was sent, the letter was leaked, soon becoming an internet phenomenon.

Huber was unavailable to respond to media inquiries in the weeks following the leak, and thus unable to defend himself when several colleagues from Purdue publicly claiming to refute his accusations about Monsanto's widely used herbicide Roundup (glyphosate) and Roundup Ready crops. When his letter was finally acknowledged by the mainstream media, it was with titles like "Scientists Question Claims in Biotech Letter," noting that the letter's popularity on the internet "has raised concern among scientists that the public will believe his unsupported claim is true."

Now, Huber has finally spoken out, both in a second letter, sent to "a wide number of individuals worldwide" to explain and back up his claims from his first letter, and in interviews. While his first letter described research that was not yet complete or published, his second letter cited much more evidence about glyphosate and genetically engineered crops based on studies that have already been published in peer-reviewed journals.

The basis of both letters and much of the research is the herbicide glyphosate. First commercialized in 1974, glyphosate is the most widely used herbicide in the world and has been for some time. Glyphosate has long been considered a relatively benign product, because it was thought to break down quickly in the environment and harm little other than the weeds it was supposed to kill. ...............(more)

The complete piece is at: http://www.alternet.org/food/150733/why_is_damning_new_evidence_about_monsanto%27s_most_widely_used_herbicide_being_silenced/



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dipsydoodle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-30-11 08:35 AM
Response to Original message
1. Russian RT News had a documentary on the general subject recently
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Botany Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-30-11 08:36 AM
Response to Original message
2. I just read the article
Major problem w/ it.

Glyphosate does not give plants aids. It stops cellular replications (mitosis) and without that the plant dies. Any weakened
living thing is much more open to invading pathogens and predatory critters so after glyphosate is applied one might expect to
see more pathogens.

BTW I am not a fan of round up ready crops.
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ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-01-11 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #2
9. I thought it was obvious it was using AIDS as an analogy,
not claiming that the plants actually, truly got AIDS. :shrug:
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Botany Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-01-11 07:27 AM
Response to Reply #9
14. and it was a very poor analogy at that
n/t
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chervilant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-01-11 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #2
33. hmm...
And, is that not what science is all about? If you have a 'major problem' with the article, by all means do the research necessary to substantiate your contention. Otherwise, you're just tilting at windmills.
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-30-11 08:53 AM
Response to Original message
3. Here we go again.
Edited on Sat Apr-30-11 09:06 AM by Buzz Clik
Alternet has given lots of ink to Huber, and very little attention to the growing number of research institutions who are refuting his claims. So, Huber writes another letter, and Alternet is back in business.

Consider this contradiction:

From the first page of the article: "While his first letter described research that was not yet complete or published, his second letter cited much more evidence about glyphosate and genetically engineered crops based on studies that have already been published in peer-reviewed journals."

This states that Huber is making his case by citing a lot of published literature. But, here comes this at the end of the article:

"But there is already a major story here: the lack of independent research on GMOs, the reluctance of U.S. journals to publish studies critical of glyphosate and GMOs, and the near total silence from the media on Huber's leaked letter."

Well, which is it? Does Huber have published evidence support his claims, or is there a conspiracy to keep critical data out of the literature? It simply cannot be both.

This is the problem with taking your case to the popular media before vetting it in the scientific arena. Huber knows this but went forward with it anyway. Makes you wonder why.
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ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-01-11 01:00 AM
Response to Reply #3
10. The article mentioned that he cited a European journal at least once.
So if the journals that are publishing are not in the US, then both claims would be true.
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-01-11 08:27 AM
Response to Reply #10
15. If the only citation was a single European journal, then he has scant evidence.
Have you considered that he might be a crackpot with no scientific foundation?
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dotymed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-01-11 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #3
16. From the O.P., I gleaned that Huber sent the letter
in confidence, to the Secretary of Agriculture (it clearly states that).

Eventually, the letter was "leaked" on the internet. Huber (I assume) felt obligated to protect both, his reputation and his initial research. He did that by releasing further studies that agreed with his hypothesis. When your professional reputation is attacked (as it seemingly is in this post) by colleagues, your (at least my) first response would be to either agree that my research was unsubstantiated (thus the initial confidential letter to ask for further study) or attempt to prove my theory through other studies.

We have "scientists" willing to seemingly insulate most large, huge, for- profit, corporations on a variety of subjects. We have the "no-man-made-climate change scientists", the "pro-irradiation scientists", the " GMO's are safe scientists"...you name it.

Frequently, if scrutinized, the majority of these pro-corporate "scientists", are financially affiliated with the industry that they are defending. Much like paid court professionals, who do nothing but testify in court, for money, at the behest of their benefactors.

I do not KNOW that this is the case in this instance. However, it is very prevalent in our capitalistic, "nation of laws."

It reminds me of an earlier post about the SCOTUS. The MSM will not touch the Clarence Thomas tax "mistakes" that were repeated for decades. Or that Thomas, Scalia and Roberts are "Justices" that frequently are "paid speakers" and/or regular attendees at "right-wing think tanks" (contradiction in terms) and Tea-party gatherings (the wealthy astro-turfed) ones.
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-01-11 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. The whole problem was the Huber sent the letter through a third party, and the policy ...
... is to not accept third party communication. The letter was delivered to the Secretary and immediately dispatched to someone of lower rank. If Huber had made certain the he was delivering the letter, the problem might have been avoided.

Quoting you: "We have 'scientists' willing to seemingly insulate most large, huge, for- profit, corporations on a variety of subjects." This is a massive cop out, and it is used by both sides of any issue when research does not support a given point of view. Climate change scientists are accused of creating hysteria to encourage continued funding; skeptics are accused of being corporate whores.

There's real science out there, and fighting it out on the internet and in public media accomplishes nothing. Huber would have been better served publishing his data first.
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proverbialwisdom Donating Member (366 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-01-11 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #3
17. Check out http://gmwatch.org/
Edited on Sun May-01-11 11:01 AM by proverbialwisdom
The website may look dorky and unsophisticated, it's not. Here's one shocking example of the type of interference you are mocking as 'a conspiracy to keep critical data out of the literature.'

In particular, review the section 'Research, Briefings, Reports, Books,' including:

QUOTE:
http://www.gmwatch.org/component/content/article/11621-gm-crops-and-honey-bee-research
GM crops and honey bee research
Monday, 26 October 2009 14:50

NOTE: This interview about GM crops and bee research, taken from the new report 'Risk Reloaded' is doubly interesting.

First, it suggests that genetically modified Bt maize could be a possible co-factor in bee die-off.

Second, it seems to confirm the recent concern, including pieces in Scientific American and Nature Biotechnology, over the degree of control and interference that the biotech industry and its supporters may be able to exert over the conduct and publication of research.


For more on this issue, see:
http://www.gmwatch.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=11573:gm-industrys-strong-arm-tactics-with-researchers-nature-biotechnology-

http://www.gmwatch.org/latest-listing/1-news-items/11406-seedy-research-restriction--global-food-security

http://www.gmwatch.org/component/content/article/11311-scientific-american-condemns-restrictions-on-gm-research

http://www.gmwatch.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=11556:letting-science-do-its-job
---
---
Interview by Christof Potthof with the bee researcher Prof. Dr. Hans-Hinrich Kaatz, University of Halle-Wittenberg

http://www.mol-ecol.uni-halle.de/staff/kaatz-hh/

Taken from Risk Reloaded
Risk analysis of genetically engineered plants within the European Union

http://www.testbiotech.org/sites/default/files/risk-reloaded_engl.pdf
(A report by Testbiotech e.V., Institute for Independent Impact Assessment in Biotechnology
Authors: Christoph Then, Christof Potthof, October 2009)

<...>

Christof Potthof: In the past you have done other honey bee research. Can you tell us a little bit about this?

Prof. Kaatz: Before starting the project with the Bt plants we had already done some research on possible hazards to the health of honey bees due to genetically modified herbicide resistant oil-seed rape and maize plants. We did not find anything negative here. Apart from this we also investigated whether the genes that come from the pollen of the plants could be transferred to honey bees. This is called horizontal gene transfer. Our first step was to find out if genes from the plants could be transferred to the microorganisms in the digestive tract of the honey bees. Later on we aimed to determine how high the probability was that the honey bees incorporate the genes themselves. One must consider that the crossover of genes is one of the principal mechanisms of evolution. It happens in very many groups of organisms.

It was more a fundamental question of scientific principles than a practical problem. We cultivated the microorganisms with the pollen and the result was that the microorganisms had indeed taken up the pat gene. In the debate on genetic engineering it had always been said that one thing that could never happen was the horizontal transfer of newly inserted genes. We presented the results to the Nature journal and got two expert opinions. One was very positive, thinking it could be published immediately.

The other thought we should do an additional analysis, a so-called Southern blot which would further verify our results. Then he would back publication. We said, "We'll do that." We did the Southern blot and submitted the article again in the belief that there was now nothing in our way. For a long time we heard nothing at all from the editorial team at Nature but in the meantime we were visited by a ZDF (German public television channel) team who asked us about our research. At the time we told them that nothing could be broadcast until an agreement had been reached with Nature and the article had been published. They nevertheless did broadcast a television programme. It was even on the news – all before we had had a final decision from Nature. We intervened strongly whereupon one of the ZDF team said, "Wait a minute, don't you know that your article has been rejected." Until that moment we had had no idea. When we asked him how he knew he said that he had spoken to some people at Monsanto and they had told him. Naturally I was shocked. It is good that they get to know these things, but I find it awful that they should know before the authors know.

Christof Potthof: How extraordinary!

Prof. Kaatz: Well, you know that when the person making the decision has contacts to Monsanto says something ... good. But the editorial team – since they were the only ones to have had both reports - that they pass this on, I find that very annoying. Such a highly respected journal. They shouldn't need to do that. In fact such a review process should first and foremost be.....(falters)

Christof Potthof: ....discreet?

Prof. Kaatz: ....very discreet.

Christof Potthof: You probably don't know the names of either of these editors, do you?

Prof. Kaatz: No.

Christof Potthof: Do they know your name?

Prof. Kaatz: Yes, they get the paper and then of course they know the names of the authors. It is not anonymous. Unless you insist. Sometimes that happens. In sensitive cases. I didn't think our data was so sensitive. We have repeated the experiment. And we have been able to prove that horizontal transfer occurs with a whole series of microorganisms of different kinds. (....)

Christof Potthof: Were your findings published somewhere else later on?

Prof. Kaatz: No, not yet. Since they are something no one wants to hear it is difficult to find an adequate place for them. (....)

END QUOTE.
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-01-11 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. If any of that were true, there would be a 100% turnover in the editorial staff at Nature.
I'm not big on conspiracies, and I've seen enough rejection of sub-par science resulting infuriated scientists that I give Professor Katz's case not much merit. Maybe he has a point, but it would be easily verified, and, as I said, the editorial staff at Nature would be looking for new jobs.
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proverbialwisdom Donating Member (366 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-01-11 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #21
35. Oh?
Not so fast, the post contained 3 articles claiming suppression of science. You only acknowledged one.

EXCERPT:
Second, it seems to confirm the recent concern, including pieces in Scientific American and Nature Biotechnology, over the degree of control and interference that the biotech industry and its supporters may be able to exert over the conduct and publication of research.
END EXCERPT.

I didn't check all of the links above. Some are broken. (One very minor shortcoming of the gmwatch site is that the links often break. Also, sometimes, the translations aren't the best, again, very minor.)

Here are the other two articles mentioned above.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=do-seed-companies-control-gm-crop-research
DO SEED COMPANIES CONTROL GM CROP RESEARCH?
Scientific American, Editorial, August 2009 edition, published 21 July 2009
Link from: http://www.gmwatch.org/component/content/article/11311

http://www.emilywaltz.com/Biotech_crop_research_restrictions_Oct_2009.pdf
Volume 27, No 10 October 2009 NATURE BIOTECHNOLOGY
UNDER WRAPS
Are the crop industry's strong-arm tactics and close-fisted attitude toward sharing seeds holding back independent research and undermining public acceptance of transgenic crops?
Emily Waltz investigates


-----------------------------

A here's more I found while digging up the above.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/20/business/20crop.html?_r=3&emc=eta1
Crop Scientists Say Biotech Seed Companies Are Thwarting Research
February 2009

Biotechnology companies are keeping university scientists from fully researching the effectiveness and environmental impact of the industry’s genetically modified crops, according to an unusual complaint issued by a group of those scientists.

The problem, the scientists say, is that farmers and other buyers of genetically engineered seeds have to sign an agreement meant to ensure that growers honor company patent rights and environmental regulations. But the agreements also prohibit growing the crops for research purposes...



and here's more I just discovered while searching for the Nature Biotechnology article,


http://www.gmwatch.org/latest-listing/1-news-items/12880-no-seeds-no-independent-research
No seeds, no independent research
Doug Gurian-Sherman (Union of Concerned Scientists)
LA Times, February 13 2011


http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-guriansherman-seeds-20110213,0,2052370.story

*Companies that genetically engineer crops have a lock on what we know about their safety and benefits

---------------

http://www.gmwatch.org/latest-listing/1-news-items/12827-the-gm-science-community-is-its-own-worst-enemy-open-letter-to-sir-paul-nurse
The GM science community is its own worst enemy - open letter to Sir Paul Nurse
Thursday, 27 January 2011 00:29


<...>

Sir Paul Nurse
President
The Royal Society
Carlton House Terrace
London SW1Y 5AG

26th January 2011

OPEN LETTER

Dear Sir Paul,

THE GM SCIENCE COMMUNITY IS ITS OWN WORST ENEMY

I was interested to watch the BBC Horizon programme in which you examine some of the reasons why the public at large is profoundly sceptical about science and scientists.

I congratulate you on the "climate change" part of the programme, which analysed some of the key issues in a logical and sensitive manner -- and identified some of the reasons why scientists are less clever than they might be in communicating facts and conclusions which are of vital significance for the future of this planet. However, I have to say that I found the last part of the programme -- relating to GM crops and foods -- condescending, complacent and even naive; and with all due respect I must take issue with some of the things which you presented as if they were self-evident.

1. I was deeply disappointed by your choice of visual material for the GM coverage. Prof Jonathan Jones can always be counted upon to give a gung-ho and biased resume of the GM state of play, and at the very least you should have questioned some of his pronouncements and assumptions. (He is heavily involved with GM multinationals as well as having a strong financial interest in the promotion of GM technology. He is not, in spite of the image he may project, a "pure academic.") And then your choice of a "crop trashing" episode as a means of portraying GM opponents as lawless, emotional activists with no respect for science did neither you nor the producers any credit. You know as well as I do that there are just as many "aggressive activists" (like Jonathan Jones and Vivian Moses) working within the GM industry and in academia as there are outside it -- and I was disappointed in the extreme that you chose to promote the cheap stereotyping of those who have serious concerns about the GM enterprise.

2. You gave a strong impression, through your choice of words in the programme, that there is something that might be referred to as "the science of GM" (developed over the years by scientific consensus) and that there are those who choose, for whatever reason, not to believe it. On the one hand, the noble scientific enterprise, and on the other the powers of ignorance and darkness. That of course is a travesty. The only thing we can be certain of in the GM debate is that there is scientific uncertainty, and to pretend otherwise is disingenuous and dishonest. You must know, if you have made any attempt to keep up with the literature on GM health and safety issues (for example), that there are many peer-reviewed articles that suggest that GM crops and foods are harmless, and many peer-reviewed articles that suggest otherwise. The jury is still out, but the number of published articles showing that GM food causes actual bodily harm to the animals used in GM feeding trials is rising at a spectacular rate -- and scientists such as you cannot go on pretending that these papers do not exist or wishing that they would go away.

3. I am intrigued by your apparent belief that scientists are always truthful and honest, and that they are all signed up to an unbreakable code of ethics. If only that were true. In the GM field, as in the field of pharmaceuticals, research is driven above all else by the profit motive, and corporate funding has largely taken the place of public funding both in the prioritization of research and in the conduct of experiments. In our researches over the past decade, we in GM-Free Cymru have homed in on case after case of poor science, selective or biased science, and fraudulent science. We have exposed many examples of "nutritional equivalence" feeding trials dressed up as "safety trials" and of scientific conclusions which are at variance with data sets. Further, we have shown that in the great majority of cases scientists themselves have allowed their work to be distorted and misrepresented, on the basis that the paymaster (be it Monsanto, Syngenta or any other applicant for a GM consent) calls the tune, and that whistleblowers are not tolerated. The conspiracy of connivance and silence that we have uncovered is truly appalling -- and something of which the scientific community should be truly ashamed.

4. In parallel with the decline of scientific standards, there is a most regrettable slippage in standards of behaviour among senior scientists who find that their research is carefully scrutinized and criticised by others. For more than a decade now, scientists working in the GM field have mounted vicious personal attacks (sometimes politically rather than scientifically motivated) upon serious scientists who have had the temerity to discover "uncomfortable things about GM crops and foods. This trend started with the vitriolic treatment meted out (with the Royal Society in the vanguard) on Arpad Pusztai and Stanley Ewen a decade ago, and continued with the crucifixion of Ignacio Chapela and David Quist, Angelika Hilbeck, Mae-wan Ho, Judy Carman, Gilles-Eric Seralini, Andres Carrasco, Manuela Malatesta, Christian Velot, Irina Ermakova and many others. There has been a real and even accelerating conspiracy to silence "dissident voices" in the GM research field. Working scientists including Vivian Moses, Bruce Chassy, Adrian Dubock, Val Giddings, Alan McHughen, Henry Miller, and David Tribe have been prominent in these attacks, and even the supposedly respectable journal "Nature Biotechnology" was involved in the infamous "dummy proof set-up" of Irina Ermakova (for which it had to apologise when GM-Free Cymru blew the story wide open). What has the Royal Society done in order to uphold standards of scientific integrity during each of these miserable episodes? Nothing at all, apart from pontificating on scientific ethics and bemoaning the existence of scientific mavericks. More to the point, the Society was itself culpable, in the Pusztai affair, in initiating a literature review by Derek Burke and Mike Gasson and then dressing it up as a piece of primary research. That, if I may say so, was quite unforgivable.

5. You apparently fail to realize that GM research is very different from publicly-funded climate research in that it is driven, either directly or indirectly, by corporate funding, with Monsanto, Syngenta and Bayer to the fore. The involvement of these companies, and others, is sometimes acknowledged and sometimes not in academic papers, and there have been many occasions on which so-called public laboratories and research institutes have produced work without mention of how their priorities are set and where their funds and salaries have come from. That situation is an inherently dangerous one, when it comes to scientific integrity. You may not be aware that the great bulk of research work on the matter of GM safety is conducted in conjunction with applications to the regulators (like ACNFP in the UK and EFSA in Europe) for growing or marketing consents or approvals. The bulk of the data relating to these studies is contained within "supporting dossiers" which are NOT made available for independent peer review or scrutiny. Over and again, organizations such as ours have had to resort to Freedom of Information requests or even to the courts to obtain sight of these dossiers, which come to us with large sections blacked out. Yet these dossiers are ALWAYS accepted as honest and truthful by the regulators prior to issuing their recommendations to the EC for approvals. When data sets and dossiers are examined, we have almost always found serious shortcomings and scientific fraud. When Professor Gilles-Eric Seralini pointed this out in a series of peer-reviewed papers, he was subjected to a series of vicious attacks by spokesmen from the GM industry, as a result of which he brought (and won) a case of defamation against his opponents in the French courts.

6. This is serious enough, but you should be aware that almost all of this "dossier research" is non-replicable. The material is owned and protected by Monsanto or one of the other major GM plant breeders, and they choose to protect their patents so obsessively that they will not allow independent researchers any access to their GM seeds, reference materials or plant products. They will only allow access to these materials to "friendly" laboratories and approved researchers undertaking sanctioned pieces of research. Researchers are forced into contracts that are very tight, and the patent owner almost always reserves the right to review research results and to give or withhold consent for publication. We have come across cases where research teams have done the research, and then Monsanto has moved in to undertake statistical analysis and to write the conclusions. In this way they ensure that nothing uncomfortable ever appears in print. If you are not worried by "research blocking" if this type, you should be -- and I was taught as a young man that NO research experiment should ever be trusted if it was non-replicable. Yet the whole edifice of "GM safety" is based upon research which cannot, and will not, ever be repeated. That is a scientific scandal -- to which the Royal Society has simply turned a blind eye.

7. You will be aware that there has never been a single piece of epidemiological research to back up the claims that GM foods are entirely safe to eat. Since the earliest days of the GM enterprise, the industry has set itself against such research, and governments, regulators and august bodies like the Royal Society have connived in this cunning little plan, allowing GM advocates like Julian Little to trot out this sort of nonsense: "two trillion meals containing GM ingredients have been consumed with no adverse health effects." As we all know, there are abundant animal feeding studies that show that GM components in the diet lead to physiological changes and cell damage. The American Academy of Environmental Sciences drew attention to studies that indicate "serious health risks associated with GM food consumption including infertility, immune dysregulation, accelerated aging, dysregulation of genes associated with cholesterol synthesis, insulin regulation, cell signalling, and protein formation, and changes in the liver, kidney, spleen and gastrointestinal system".

They concluded that: "There is more than a casual association between GM foods and adverse health effects. There is causation ..." It's worth pointing out that these studies have almost all been short-term (90 days or less) studies, and that the demands by Prof Gilles-Eric Seralini and others for lifetime and multi-generational feeding studies have fallen on deaf ears. Why? Because the GM corporations, regulators and even national governments are scared to death of what those studies will show up.

8. The GM regulatory system in both the UK and Europe is also corrupt. There is an incestuous relationship between the GM research sector, the GM industry and the advisory committees and regulators. Revolving doors are constantly on the move, and the same names pop up over and again on the key committees. We have complained over and again on the basis that GM applications are not scrutinized properly in the UK, and about the manner in which DEFRA and FSA orchestrate the activities -- and the decisions -- of committees like ACRE and ACNFP. Nowadays they tend simply to defer to EFSA, whose GMO Panel exists for the convenience of the GM industry and for the facilitation of GM approvals, rather than for the protection of the European public. As you will know, EFSA has been heavily attacked over the past few years by the European Parliament, national governments and NGOs, and even by the Commission for its incompetence and willingness to believe almost everything that the GM industry tells it. Currently it is coming in for severe criticism for its secrecy, its lack of transparency, and its agenda (under the guidance of Dr Harry Kuiper) of loosening up the regulatory system so as to permit fast-track and frequent GM approvals.

I could go on, but that would be too depressing. If you think that the members of the general public (including your friend who objects to the idea of eating food with genes in it) are simply ignorant, and need educating as to the merits of GM crops and foods, I fear that you are very wide of the mark. People are a great deal more sophisticated than you think. They DO have a gut feeling that it is somehow wrong to insert genes into plants that have come from unrelated species, and YES, the Frankenfood campaign has been effective in keeping that distaste and mistrust alive. But they are also fed up with endless promises from the GM industry (over two decades) that have not been delivered on. They are appalled by an industry that operates in such a slapdash manner that one GM contamination scandal after another has been allowed to occur. They dislike the idea of corporate control of the food supply. They have picked up on media coverage of the terrible social and health effects of large-scale GM monocultures in Argentina, Paraguay and India. They are aware that there is still not a single GM product in the marketplace that is cheaper, tastes better, is more nutritious, looks better, and delivers any benefit at all, over and above the GM-free diet that they are used to. The UK government has admitted that there are currently no GM products designed to bring benefits to the consumer -- why therefore should anybody want them, or even be prepared to tolerate them, given all the attendant risks? And people have seen the treatment meted out to "GM martyrs" like Arpad Pusztai, Ignacio Chapela and Percy Schmeiser by the GM rottweilers -- and even by academics who should know better -- and they have been appalled.

Sadly, attempts by the GM science community to improve its communications skills and to "educate" the Great British Public in a more sophisticated way are doomed to failure. That community has to win the trust of the public, and in order to do that it has to examine its own belief systems and working practices, and reform itself from the inside. The Royal Society could play a key role in this process. Has it got the guts to do it? Having asked a number of past Presidents exactly the same question, without getting a single reply from any of them, I have my doubts.

I end with a quote from Lord Robert Winston: "Scientists must listen to public fears, and respond to the concerns of ordinary people. We must behave responsibly, ensuring our work has the highest ethical standards."

I look forward to hearing from you.

Yours sincerely,

Dr Brian John
GM-Free Cymru

----------------------

All this speaks for itself, doesn't it?
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-01-11 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. "All this speaks for itself, doesn't it?" I have no idea.
Life is too short. Enjoy your conspiracies.
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chervilant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-01-11 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #38
42. OMG!
Better to be silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt.
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-01-11 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #42
45. That was my reaction to your obsessed website. It reminds of the crap compiled by the Truthers.
As I said, enjoy your conspiracies. I'll be pursuing the science.
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chervilant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-01-11 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #45
51. hmm...
Your position strongly suggests a partisan stamping of your widdle feets. I see no evidence of a scientific mind in any of your posts.
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chervilant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-01-11 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #45
52. BTW
accusing activists, or DUers, of being conspiracists when their perspectives differ from yours is childish. I'd suggest that you spend a few minutes watching Food, Inc. before you accuse me or anyone else of 'conspiracies.'

The food grown by the enormous US agribusinesses is increasingly dangerous, contains measurably less nutrients than the food we raised when I was a child, and frequently tastes like shit on a shingle. Thanks to the ecologically unsound agricultural practices of these behemoth companies, virtually all of our groundwater is contaminated. Amphibians, the 'canaries' of our ecosytem, have declined alarmingly in the past three decades, with many of those that survive exhibiting birth defects and reproductive disorders. AND, my Beekeeping activist friend is telling me that her mentors now consider it a GOOD YEAR if they retain 35% of their bee hives each spring (oh, wait--I suppose CCD is a big conspiracy, too...).

Yeah, your science is unlikely to refute any of what I've enumerated hereinabove. Good luck, though.
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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-01-11 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #3
19. It's amazing that people still trust and defend corporations with known dubious pasts, agendas...
that quash little farmers, seek to dominate the seed market and quash all competition. Oh well ...everyone is free to trust big corporations. I'd rather see Monsanto be on the defensive from true and or false accusation.

:crazy:
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-01-11 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. Bullshit.
The "little farmers" want these products. If you threatened to take from them Roundup Ready crops and Bt crops, they would be lobbying in Washington immediately.

Don't even try to pretend that these baseless conspiracies represent the farming community because it most certainly does not.
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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-01-11 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Bullshit! Monsanto is always attacking little farmers because their GM shit cross pollinates...
but ignorance is bliss for some. Shill much?
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-01-11 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Shill? No. I receive no money from any corporations of any kind. I just hate bullshit.
Do you know even one farmer?
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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-01-11 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Probably more of them than you ...and worked on them too.
Edited on Sun May-01-11 01:24 PM by L0oniX
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-01-11 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. Wrong answer.
If you truly knew mainstream farmers, then you'd know what I am saying is true.
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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-01-11 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. mainstream/corporate farmers ...no I don't know any of those sociopaths.
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-01-11 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #30
37. So, any farmer that wants GM crops is a corporate sociopath.
alrighty then.
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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-01-11 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #37
43. "any farmer" nice reframe attempt. You are obviously not worth communicating with.
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-01-11 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #43
46. Then let me rephrase:
I have communicated with hundreds of farmers in various capacities, and the vast majority want -- absolutely want -- these kinds of crops. They are humble Midwest farmers. Not one of them is a "corporate sociopath."

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Grinchie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 04:02 AM
Response to Reply #29
53. What's the matter? Your Monsanto Stock Pices faltering?
That's the only message your are broadcasting loud and clear by your insistence that we all put on a pair of Monsanto collered GM is Groovy glasses and ignore the facts.

It's simple minded people that you that ignore the fact that these organisms can escape into other fields and contaminate organic crops, with no chance of cleaning up the mess that you conveniently omit from your childish arguments.

I choose to be organic because I know that the food is healthy and not loaded with mostly bulk producing fertilizers, while lacking taste and nutrition. Add BT toxins, plus the ability for bacteria in the human gut to acquire the BT trait through horizontal gene transfer, and creating a recipie for lifelong chronic poisoning, and it's just not worth it.

Would you be willing to pay for anyone to test for GMO foods on demand? Are you happy that the USDA subsidizes big ag with lower crop insurance for GMO crops, resulting in a lopsided and indirect handout to promote GM versus natural foods?

I farm organically, and I have no need for this GMO stuff. It's hype and marketing, and belongs in a reactor vessel and not in the environment where it is free to escape.

Until the GMO corporations have balls enough to actually label the GMO food products, I will boycott it all. That alone is the key fact that removes all accountability from these idiots tinkering with the genetic makeup of our food supply.

Are you so in love with uncontrolled and untested technology that you will bet your life and health on it, perhaps seeing the results in your 50's or later in life?

Thank god I'm not a mainstream farmer.. No debt, No bank Loans, Few Machines and more food than I know what to do with year round.. The mainstream farmers you know are stuck in the rat race as laborers being told what to plant and spray.

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chervilant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #53
65. Notice
how Mr. buzz(saw) avoids responding to posts with which he cannot argue?
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russspeakeasy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-01-11 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. Try saving any of the harvested bt corn seed for re-planting and they
(monsanto), will sue your ass off. I know farmers who have
been sued. All have lost. Monsanto can be ruthless.
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-01-11 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. Yeah. Try saving money by photocopying a book. Same problem.
Don't like it? Don't buy the seeds. Done and done.
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russspeakeasy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-01-11 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #28
32. I don't think you get it. It's a Patent, they own the patent.
Large and small seed companies use it and pay dearly. It is
not an option to use or not use.
 Holding food crops hostage, i.e. ethanol/genetically modified
crops is IMHO, not good in the long term.
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-01-11 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #32
36. They patent the modified crop itself. If you want Roundup Ready, you pay.l
Edited on Sun May-01-11 03:48 PM by Buzz Clik
You want Bt corn, you pay.

What is not to get?

This has been going on for decades -- traditional plant breeders have been breeding traits into crops forever. And, they own the rights to those varieties.
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chervilant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-01-11 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #22
44. Ignorance is bliss.
Willful ignorance is inexcusable.

Monsanto has been a corporate bully since before they tried to vilify Rachel Carson, attacking her scholarship AND her brave, award-winning book, Silent Spring. An enlightening contemporary perspective of Monsanto is available in Food, Inc.

BTW, 'little farmers' are being methodically eliminated by the hulking agribusinesses who continue to push their heavily refined, sugar-laden, hydrogenated oil-laced products on the hoi polloi. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to suss out the burgeoning body of research on this detrimental paradigm shift in how food is being produced in this nation.

Good luck using your 'baseless conspiracies' meme to refute the growing opposition to GM products. Far too many of us are on to you and your ilk.
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-01-11 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #44
47. tsk tsk.
Try to discuss a little science, and the luddites come out swinging clubs.

I don't care what you think because I have not found anyone on this thread who has any agricultural experience at all. The big insults are being thrown by armchair types who don't know a disk from a discus.

I have heard repeated at DU how Monsanto is pushing little seed business off the map and they force farmers to buy only their product. That is a lie. Pure and simple -- it is a lie. You can repeat it until you are dead, but I will correct you every time, and I don't care how many insults you and YOUR ilk dish out.

I'll be here waiting for you to get off your ignorant asses and acquaint yourself with the real world.
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chervilant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-01-11 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #47
49. hmph!
I grew up on a farm, and have most recently focused on French Intensive gardening, which gives me prolific results. I am working with a small group of activists right now on a grant so that we can help educate youth groups about organic gardening and sustainability.

Sad that you are a shill for Monsanto...
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russspeakeasy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #47
54. You are a shill buzzzzzzzz. Goodbye.
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PurgedVoter Donating Member (753 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #47
55. Buzz, Tone of Speech does matter.
Your statement, 'Try to discuss a little science, and the luddites come out swinging clubs.' kind of defeats the image of mature discussion.

I, have rather extensive agricultural and aquaculture experience. I have also been trained to train others to apply pesticides and to train people to apply pesticides. I have used quite a few pesticides, many of them produced by Monsanto. I have attempted at all times to try and reduce the potential damage that pesticides would cause. This requires information and careful attention to details.

In my use of Roundup, which at one time I considered as safe and useful as any product produced, I have discovered a simple truth. Roundup is a salt. Salts unless they can be taken up and used by living organisms tend to build up and impact the soil in manners not conducive to most plant growth.

In the late 70's Roundup was known to be the one safe herbicide that entirely went away the moment it hit the soil. Scientists and farmers all knew this beyond a shadow of a doubt. I knew this. Come to find out in cooler climates and environments it can remain active and unbound for years.

In areas where I used Roundup, the need for fertilizer increased. Come to find out it negatively impacts nitrogen fixing bacteria. Anyone who has studied biological systems to any degree, should be able to understand what happens when you disable nitrogen fixing bacteria.

There are a host of other problems related to the use of Roundup. As someone who counted on Roundup as a safe and environmentally conscious tool, I was at a loss when I discovered that even my reduced and careful use of Roundup could be disrupting the reproductive cycle of amphibians in the immediate area and downstream.

I have encountered researchers who have learned to be very careful about research that might involve several agricultural chemical corporations. Monsanto tends to appear at the top of these lists.

So to put it simply, Monsanto has in fact deceived me. I have passed that deceit on to others and I have damaged the environment and the areas that I was agriculturally responsible for. I take that very, very seriously.

Ignoring the far fetched but possible, or even the well based and unavoidable evidence that speaks quite clearly that we cannot trust the Monsanto, I have personal experience where their very well managed campaigns of propaganda and deceit have caused me to personally violate ethics that I hold very dear.



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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #55
56. One at a time:
  1. Tone of Speech does matter. True. Don't forget to tell that to your like-minded cohorts; I will bite back when snapped at.

  2. You have extensive agricultural experience. Excellent. We have common ground

  3. Roundup is a salt. Salts unless they can be taken up and used by living organisms tend to build up and impact the soil in manners not conducive to most plant growth. True again, but at the label-recommended rates, the salts associated with Roundup will be far below the native level of salts present in all soils.

  4. In the late 70's Roundup was known to be the one safe herbicide that entirely went away the moment it hit the soil. Scientists and farmers all knew this beyond a shadow of a doubt. Farmers? Maybe, but not scientists. Roundup was purported to be strongly bound to the soil after application and deemed to be benign. There was early evidence that "benign" was wrong, but more plants were immune to the low concentrations.

  5. I have encountered researchers who have learned to be very careful about research that might involve several agricultural chemical corporations. Monsanto tends to appear at the top of these lists. I don't suppose these people have names...

  6. So to put it simply, Monsanto has in fact deceived me. And, some of your facts are incorrect.


So, where does this put this conversation?
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PurgedVoter Donating Member (753 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-03-11 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #56
60. I rather do not appreciate your approach.
Edited on Tue May-03-11 11:01 AM by PurgedVoter
You may not be aware of how you come off, but your methods of discussion are not those generally accepted in polite company. Your statement that some of my facts are incorrect is not actually supported. In this case my observations and facts are all pretty well backed up. You arguments are either short term observation or intended to gloss over long term issues. Your facts so far have not been supported by much more than strong words, accusations, and critical judgments.

It is pretty clear that you will defend Monsanto in all ways and at all times and will attack anyone who feels differently with a tone quite a bit stronger than the tone they used. I try to separate what I know, strongly believe, believe, suspect and would like to believe. While I have issue with a lot of things I know about Monsanto, there is a lot of very negative information that I have believed. Your comments here have helped move a lot of these issues from believe to strongly believe. It is pretty obvious that you are not actually arguing in good faith.

My suspicion is that your arguments are being viewed by quite a few people in this light, and when they look up Monsanto and read the fairly large volume of independent and unfunded sources of farm, community, scientific, monopolistic, legal and environmental issues that can be easily found discussing Monsanto, they will approach these subjects with an open mind toward the possibility that Monsanto is perhaps not as ethical a company as we would like to have performing genetic experimentation on plants that are fairly critical food sources.

If Monsanto instead focused on food crops that did not scatter pollen freely, and that so many farmers and consumers depended on, they would not be such a clear and obvious danger. If they modified may apples to produce poisons and drugs, the potential harm to our food chain would not be so bad. By modifying corn to produce poisons, pesticides, drugs and what not, they are playing with things that they really should not be allowed to, in light of the sort of ethics and intellectual honesty that they have shown in the past.

Looking at other discussions of Monsanto, it is pretty clear that you can expect a fairly mean spirited defender of Monsanto to show up pretty quickly on any open forum or in the comments following an article. This is a very interesting pattern.
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-03-11 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #60
61. Unsupported? Not likely.
"Your statement that some of my facts are incorrect is not actually supported."

Wrong. Not only that, the evidence that Huber is generating unneeded concern is quite strong.

http://www.btny.purdue.edu/weedscience/2011/glyphosatesimpact11.pdf

Read this. This is how experts write about scientific findings.
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chervilant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #61
63. hmm...
"Experts" rarely cite a single resource (particularly a resource that isn't a prominent, peer-reviewed journal). Furthermore, a single citation does NOT constitute 'quite strong' evidence.

Epic fail on all fronts, buzz. And, you're not even brave enough to take responsibility for your rather obvious position as a shill (paid or otherwise) for Monsanto.

Gosh... one has to wonder if you are as pathetic in real time as you are in this thread...
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chervilant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #56
64. hmm...
"I will bite back when snapped at." Rather like a toothless old alligator, buzz?

I could wade through the depths of your intellect without getting the tops of my toes wet.
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fasttense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-03-11 04:29 AM
Response to Reply #22
58. As a small farmer, I don't want these products.
First poison drenched food is very unappealing and what we small farmers grow, we eat and give to our families to eat and otherwise use the crop in other areas of our farm.

Somethings I've discovered in the course of farming. Round up drenched crops or crop waste can NOT be used for mulch. The round up it was drenched in, even say corn stalks, will kill any seed or plant you try growing in it. So, round up drenched crops and crop waste must be carefully separated and prevented from getting near any other crop you have growing. This is particularly difficult as a small farmer because small farmers don't just grow one crop. We have to diversify in order to make enough money. So, it's a really big hassle to find a dumping ground for round up drenched crop waste.

As a small farmer I can't afford to buy seeds every year. I save seeds a lot, this cuts down on expenses. You can NOT save GMO seeds. You have to buy them every year. By buying seeds every year, your crop never adapts. Most crops get healthier and stronger each year you plant your saved seeds. GMO crops can't and don't. True some GMO crops have some protections from some insects and diseases but they don't have protection from them all. So, unlike the pumpkins whose best producer I save the seed from each year, GMO crops will still have the same diseases and bug problems they had last year.

It costs a lot for all those chemicals. I've recently gone to certified naturally grown production and a lot our pest management products we get right from our kitchen at a quarter of the cost for the chemicals.

So, no most small farmers don't want the crap Monsanto is giving out unless of course they are inexperienced and haven't worked and farmed with the stuff.
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chervilant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-01-11 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #3
41. hmm...
Rather arrogant, one might think--assuming that the US is the only country with peer-reviewed journals. This is the problem with taking your case to DU before vetting your comprehension skills.

Also, if you want to lob detractions, perhaps you could identify the 'growing number of research institutions who are refuting his claims,' because, you see, I didn't get that Huber is making any 'claims' per se. He seems interested in further research to determine whether his suspicions are warranted.
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-01-11 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #41
48. This is getting silly.
Huber isn't making any claims? Did you ever bother to read his letter? Here's the opening paragraphs:
    "A team of senior plant and animal scientists have recently brought to my attention the discovery of an electron microscopic pathogen that appears to significantly impact the health of plants, animals, and probably human beings. Based on a review of the data, it is widespread, very serious, and is in much higher concentrations in Roundup Ready (RR) soybeans and corn— suggesting a link with the RR gene or more likely the presence of Roundup. This organism appears NEW to science!

    "This is highly sensitive information that could result in a collapse of US soy and corn export markets and significant disruption of domestic food and feed supplies. On the other hand, this new organism may already be responsible for significant harm (see below). My colleagues and I are therefore moving our investigation forward with speed and discretion, and seek assistance from the USDA and other entities to identify the pathogen’s source, prevalence, implications, and remedies."

No claims, eh? Gawd. He's only suggesting that a NEW plant pathogen will impact the health of animals and humans and could result in the collapse in the collapse of US soy and corn exports. Nah, no claims there.

"Also, if you want to lob detractions, perhaps you could identify the 'growing number of research institutions who are refuting his claims,'" Google is your friend: Purdue, Iowa State, and Ohio State for starters. Just three of the most important agricultural institutions on the planet.

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chervilant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-01-11 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #48
50. Silly?
So, in a private letter, Mr. Huber sought assistance from the USDA and other entities to pursue further research about a possible new pathogen, apparently so miniscule as to require the use of an electron microscope. Oh, noes!! Call out the Thought Police!

"Could result" is a far cry from "claiming" such a pathogen exists. Choosing a different approach to obtain funding and assistance for a FASTER investigative outcome is grounds for all these histrionics? What's got all these naysayers' wee panties in a wad?

I am not impressed by your list of Monsanto and USDA funded 'research' facilities, particularly if they have jumped on this Bash Huber Bandwagon. If they know for certain he's a flake, then surely they have the chops to debunk him using hard, cold facts.
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WhiteTara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-30-11 09:18 AM
Response to Original message
4. Full strength vinegar will kill any plant you don't want.
Spray it on the plant on a sunny day and boom, down goes the plant. Has to do with the alkalinity of the soil.
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-01-11 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #4
24. Okay. It is sunny, and I just dumped vinegar on ten seedlings.
How long does this take? When will the seedlings be dead?
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WhiteTara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-01-11 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #24
31. Probably a day or two. Let me know.
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fasttense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-03-11 04:38 AM
Response to Reply #24
59. How old are the seedlings?
It depends on how old and large the seedlings are and how much vinegar you used. I've used vinegar on plants that needed acidic soil, they were just fine.

It all depends.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-30-11 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
5. "penned a confidential letter to Secretary of Agriculture Tom Vilsack"
THATS going to do a lot of good!!!!
Vilsack is Monsanto's Man in the White House.

Google "Vilsack ties Monsanto"

Vilsack is to Monsanto
as Geithner/Summers is to Wall Street.



The DLC New Team
Chamber of Commerce APPROVED!!!

(Screen Capped from the DLC Website)

http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=254886&kaid=86&subid=85
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-01-11 01:44 AM
Response to Reply #5
11. Ain't it funny how over the last two years plus, we all
Got to meet the New Boss, the Same as the Old Boss.

Presidents supporting Monsanto go all the way back at least to Reagan.

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pscot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-30-11 04:13 PM
Response to Original message
6. +1
This is a big deal. I'm glad that Huber isn't going away quietly. He's up against "corporate science", but it looks like the facts are on his side.
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MasonJar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-30-11 04:32 PM
Response to Original message
7. Corporate donations one presumes.
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-30-11 10:03 PM
Response to Original message
8. Because the FDA and Homeland security is being run by the former
monsanto attorney that gave us BGH in our Milk....
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-01-11 04:29 AM
Response to Original message
12. k & r
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skepticscott Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-01-11 06:56 AM
Response to Original message
13. Letters to individuals
are not how scientific information of this type is properly disseminated, and Huber damn well knows it. You submit your specific, detailed findings in a peer-reviewed journal so that other scientists in the field can critique your work, and attempt to duplicate your results. Until he does that, he has no right to expect to be taken seriously by the scientific community. The whole "conspiracy to keep my work from being published" schtick is typical BS from people who know their pet theories won't stand up to scrutiny by experts in the field, and who go to the credulous, fear-mongering, science-addled popular media instead.
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somone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-01-11 11:11 AM
Response to Original message
18. Recommended
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Capitalocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-01-11 03:39 PM
Response to Original message
34. I'll tell you why: because it doesn't pass the smell test.
Edited on Sun May-01-11 03:41 PM by Capitalocracy
The original letter was patently ridiculous. The article doesn't even link to the second letter, which I Googled and will take the time (not that I really have time for it) to read later. But the first letter talked about a newly-discovered "electron microscopic" (not a real term) microfungus that acts like a retrovirus blah blah blah. None of it made any sense. You don't need an electron microscope to see a "microfungus". Microfungi are smaller than fungi, like mushrooms you'd put on your salad, but much larger than viruses and bacteria and are visible under simple microscopes. Some of them are harmful, of course, but in terms of size and ability to find and detect them, one example of a microfungus is yeast. They are easy to find and isolate, and these guys have not done so.

I am on your side if you think genetically modified food should be thoroughly studied before released to the population, but this is quackery 101. Doesn't pass the smell test.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=503686&mesg_id=503686
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Dont call me Shirley Donating Member (396 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-01-11 04:32 PM
Response to Original message
39. Ripe Round Up Award Ear of Corn Trophy on Webkinz....
If your kids play on webkinz, one of the "awards" they can win is the "Ripe Round Up Ear of Corn" trophy. I got chills when I saw that. Monsanto marketing their poison to our kids through comuter games. How sick is that!
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Stuart G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-01-11 04:33 PM
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40. kick
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avaistheone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-03-11 02:31 AM
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57. Monsanto is the Osama Bin Laden of corporations.
Having read one disturbing article after another from the world press about this company, I can only conclude they are the most evil corporation imaginable.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-03-11 02:03 PM
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62. Marmar, may I direct you to an article I wrote
Edited on Tue May-03-11 02:04 PM by truedelphi
That spelled out the details of all the "control" that the Major Corporations direct over our "Free and Liberal Media."

Granted, the article concerns the omissions and then the outright lies regarding the news articles about a gas additive, MTBE, that was being forced on us in California, and elsewhere.

If you extrapolate from what this means regarding one particular substance over to the larger issues at hand, all known problems, then you can see where we have a problem.

The article on how the Associated Press is sold out to the highest bidder is over here at dailykos:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x600386

It's not just that the major media is silent about Monsanto's reign of terror regarding GM's, and regarding the herbicide RoundUp (Which used to, for over thirty years, contain Formaldehyde, a known carcinogen, but Monsanto simply merrily lied to EPA when applying for the license. If you or any other small time human did that, you'd be in jail for ten years,)
it's that every single problem that us mere activists worry about is never discussed in the main stream media. Corexit was fast track approved by the EPA (which means the EPA approval is meaningless, as there are no real studies regarding the generational issues) yet we don't hear about that in our mains stream news. The first responders on Nine Eleven were told by the EPA that they were safe while working without respirators at the Ground Zero site, yet that turned out to be a major false hood. They were breathing in mercury, arsenic, formaldehyde, radioactive material from smoke detectors, etc.

Meanwhile Depleted Uranium, which is rather inert when not dealt a blow by explosives, has been hit by explosions all over Bosnia, over Iraq, over Pakistan and Afghanistan etc. Whatever ends up in the atmosphere is distributed equally over the globe as a whole, which is one reason why the rare childhood cancers are escalating here in California.

Some government officials have come forward to state that Depleted Uranium is safe, but then they are confronted with the military's own
videos and films regarding the dangers of DU.


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