"My family was one of Hitler's victims...."

[DuctapeFatwa]

We lost a lot under the Nazi occupation, including an uncle who died in the camps and a cousin killed by a booby trap. I was terrified when my father went ballistic after finding my brother and me playing with a hand grenade.

Why didn't you do anything about the people in the camps?

Everyone was terrified. People 'disappeared' into those camps....

Why didn't the German people stop the Nazis?

Hitler brought order and prosperity....The people liked the idea of removing the worst elements of society - the gypsies, the homosexuals, the petty criminals - it was easy to elicit support for prosecuting the corrupt 'evil'people poisoning society. Every family was proud of their hometown heroes - the sharply-dressed soldiers they contributed to his program - they were, after all,defending the Fatherland. ...

I'm afraid now, that what may still come to pass is a reign far more savage and barbaric than that of the Nazis. Already, appeasement has been fruitless - it only encourages the brazen to escalate their arrogance and braggadocio. Americans support Bush - by a generous majority - and mass media sings his praises while indicting his detractors - or silencing their opinions completely. The American people seem to care only about the domestic economic situation - and even in that, they are in complete denial. They don't want to hear about Iraq, and Afghanistan is already forgotten. Even the Democratic opposition supports the occupation of Iraq. Everyone seems to agree that Saddam Hussein deserves to be executed -with or without a trial. 'Visitors' are fingerprinted. Guilty until proven innocent. Snipers are on New York City rooftops. When do the Stryker teams start appearing on American streets? They're perfectly suited for 'Homeland Security' - and they've had a trial run in Iraq. The Constitution has been suspended - until further notice. Dick Cheney just mentioned it may be for decades - even a generation, as Rice asserts as well. Is this the start of the 1000 year reign of this new collection of thugs? So it would seem.
I can only hope that in the coming year there will be some sign - some hint - that we are not becoming that which we abhor. The Theory of the Grotesque fares all too well these days. It may not be Nazi Germany - it might be a lot worse.


http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/010904A.shtml

[Penible]

1. Hatred of Jews

What really bothers me are those folks today who explicitly say they hate Jews. People whose hatred is so intense that they are willing to have their sons strap bombs to their bodies, walk into a Bar Mitzvah, or onto a school bus, and explode themselves with the goal of killing Jews.

What bothers me are countries whose textbooks explicitly refer to Jews as pigs and monkeys. Text books which promulgate the blood libel, and whose government television show serials on The Protocols of The Elders Of Zion.

What bothers me is the bizarre, insane, surrealistic hatred of Jews imposed on believers as a religious obligation, to the point where self-interest is subsumed by Jew hatred, where the instinct for survival itself is obliterated by the passion to kill Jews, defame Jews, to make Jews suffer.

What scares me, what really freezes my spine, is a hatred of Jews so powerful and so irrational, so primal and so unquestioning, that the destruction of the whole world seems to be a worthy goal, if only the Jews are destroyed.

The actual, true, indisputable reality is this hatred of Jews now, today, instantly, exists, swimming in a world-wide, well organized, oil financed, fanatic community.

And in this modern spectre of Holocaust, I wear a star. Do you?

[lcordero]

2. I wonder if it was actual prosperity or

the same kind of "prosperity" right now that is built on a bunch of lies.

[DuctapeFatwa]

3. One of the CNN heads was talking about the "insurgency" in Iraq

It's going to be an adjustment for them, he said, they are so used to having everything just handed to them from Saddam's socialism, and now they are literally learning how to be free, and that means that fewer people will have jobs, but those who do will earn more than they did under Saddam.

[RowWellandLive]

4. Keep comparing Bush to Hitler

and you will see Bush win in landslide proportions.

Speaking for myself, a Jewish Democrat, I find this crap to be repulsive. I disagree with the majority of Bush's policies, but in no way do I believe it is his objective to exterminate an entire race of people.

Of course one can find similarities between things Hilter did during his rise to power with just about any other national leader. To extrapolate that into Bush = Hitler is offensive to all but the most left wing crack pot Bush Hater extradonaire. It also demeans the pure evil that Hitler was and the mass crimes committed against the Jews.

If you want Bush to win and the Republicans to consolidate power for many years to come, keep this vile crap going. Move On was right to pull that Hitler/Bush add immediately. Follow their example and cease and desist.

[intheozone]

5. Bush in a landslide??

Any chance you could be wrong??? Me thinks there is a chance.

Me also thinks a lot of people recognize similarities between Bush and Hitler. It's not vile crap, just the honest truth.

In my opinion, Hitler was not the beginning of pure evil and he will not be the end of it! Bush might very well equal that particular level of evil. Time may tell!

[RowWellandLive]

7. I hope I'm wrong

but Bush = Hitler is pure hyperbole and completely smacks of insensitivity to what the Jews went through during the Holocaust. This crap trivializes the true wrongs of this administration and actually gains them sympathy.

It is my honest belief that those whose hatred of Bush is so great that they are driven over the edge into comparing him with Hitler are a minority who will be viewed by most as a wacko, delusional group completely blinded by hate. This is fringe stuff driven by emotion rather then reason.

Bush is wrong on the majority of issues and can be beaten if we stick to facts and ideology. He will win "big time" if we continue to paint him as evil, especially if we do so in Hitler like proportions.

The majority of Americans do not and will not believe he is evil. They can be convinced he is wrong and that is what we need to do. This kind of "overplaying our hand" is reminiscent of Gingrich, impeachment, and all the Clinton bashing crap that drove his poll numbers up, even when people were angry with him.

Get a grip, Bush is not Hitler. He is no where close to pure evil. Approximately half the country agrees with him and supports him. Instead of trying to educate and convert them to our way of thinking, we are alienating them. Equating Bush to Hitler makes them stronger and us weaker.

[Penible]

6. Row, respectfully ...

It is not just a matter of crackpots comparing Bush to Hitler.

It is a matter of a world-wide tsunami of Jew hatred.

Yes, your point is well taken. Comparison of Bush to Hitler is not only absurd, but it also detrimental to the cause it intends to advance.

Yet ... and this is more important ... Jew hatred is the very heart and soul of a present, existing, real, dangerous, capable, experienced, determined global movement. This Jew hatred seems to be met with welcome in places like France and Germany, where Jews are increasingly harrassed, and the governments take the view of malign neglect.

It is beyond my comprehension that anyone with a progressive view should ignore an ideology which explicitly hates Jews, and relentlessly ... every single day in fact ... everywhere over the Earth in fact ... attacks any Jew for being a Jew.

Has political expedience really vanquished and minimized the fact of organized, effective Jew hatred?

[RowWellandLive]

8. The answer to your last question

is yes, unfortunately and respectfully. Its undercurrents are all too prevalent here and in other progressive forums. Anti-Semitism is quite often overlooked or brushed aside when the "greater good" is being advanced. A prime example of this was the lack of 100% condemnation of the spine chilling Israel bashing allowed and promoted at the anti-war demonstrations put on by ANSWER. It manifests itself into examples that you provided and now culminates in the current discourse above.

BTW, welcome to DU :hi:

[Penible]

9. TY

Thanks Row for the welcome! ... my dearly beloved sister brought me onto the site ... (she is such a rabble rouser, too ... lol)

This is broken record time ... to me, hatred of Jews is so significant in so many ways right now. It is mind-boggling that it should be so ... I grew up just taking for granted that hating Jews was the epitome of soul-destroying malevolence (along with any other racism).

Yet now, hatred of Jews is literally sweeping the world, and its manifestations are so vile, it is a wonder why it should not be a primary consideration of any civilized person.

Organized violence against Jews is the hallmark of Hitler ... his whole reason for being, his psychological bedrock ... it distresses me when folks so easily throw that evil around, especially when there is an organized movement of Jew hatred on a global proportion.

Does it really make sense to impute Hitler to anyone who disdains Hitler, while exercising benign neglect to those who would be proud to be Hitler?

[RowWellandLive]

11. No it does not make sense logically

but it never ceases to amaze what people will overlook, brush aside, or minimize in an effort to champion their overall, more important world view. The lack of sensitivity and double standard when it comes to anti Semites is often stunning.

Once upon a time in the not too distant past it was the left that Jews could count on for shelter and support. No longer. I fear that if this continues the rock solid Jewish Democratic voting block will turn Republican. I see it happening all around me. With Bush = Hitler nonsense and what you cited above it is increasingly difficult to stem the tide.

Hatred of Jews IS sweeping the world and going ignored and unrecognized by our former champions on the left. Not only isn't it a primary concern here, it's barely on the radar screen.

I fervently wish all the above wasn't true, but it is.

[truth2power]

10. There are many people around the world,

not just on this board, who see the parallels between Bush and Hitler. I can't deny that that is what I see also.

"To extrapolate that into Bush = Hitler is offensive to all but the most left wing crack pot Bush Hater extradonaire." I am sorry you feel that way. Sometimes I find it offensive that others are unwilling to see the coming darkness.

[RowWellandLive]

12. There is a huge difference

between fearing the coming darkness of Bush and comparing that to Hitler. Hitler's goal was to EXTERMINATE, KILL, WIPE OUT, EVERY SINGLE JEW!!! There is NO comparison. Stick to Bush and his wrong doing. That is enough. What race/group of people do you believe that Bush wants to wipe off the planet until eternity?

By making the comparisons you do you diminish the evil that Hitler perpetrated and exaggerate the wrongs of Bush to such an extent to gain him sympathy.

I'm sorry that you feel the way that you do. Does it not dawn on you why MOVE ON pulled that Hitler/Bush add and denounced it?? Because yours is a losing, fringe, crack pot view.

Let this crap drop now. The more Hitler/Bush references there are, the wider our margin of defeat will be. There are parallels everywhere in all national leaders if you look for them. Bush is wrong but he is not Hitler. Your hatred is turning you insane.

[Minstrel Boy]

14. Was the Hitler of 1935 as evil as the Hitler of 1945?

We're talking potentiality. Give Bush time. And if you truly think it's "insane" to compare Bush to Hitler, you'll give him all the time in the world.

The man who can say "We will export death and violence to the four corners of the earth in defense of this great nation," and has the means and inclination to do it, imperils the world, and all races.

[Penible]

13. Understanding where you are coming from ....

but please ... read Toland's biography of Hitler.

You might be young, and do not understand who Hitler was, or what national socialism was. What it all came down to, with a lot of other stuff (like demented Marxism) was hatred of Jews.

I realize this might seem fantastic to many younger people, who might equate Hitler as BAD BAD BAD, and thus the same as Bush.

But it truly was hatred of Jews. Unabashed, orgasmic, delightful hatred of Jews.

There is a movement in the world today which has the same ideology. But it is not Bush.

Bush may be a chimp, a dolt, a stooge, an extreme believer.

But he does not hate Jews, nor does he desire the elimination of Jews. To advocate so puts the progressive world so much at a loss. Justice and equality are undermined when wild accusations are tossed.

More to the point, progressives should recognize this. Jews are humans. They have been persecuted for centuries. They are being targeted for elimination RIGHT NOW, by a global movement in utter agreement with Hitler.

Listen: it is a global movement. The movement hates Jews and wants them eliminated. They kill Jews every day, everywhere they can, or harrass them.

What is so hard to understand about this?

Why must hatred of Jews be so demeaned by comparing Bush to Hitler?

[scucci]

15. THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I've kept my mouth shut for weeks because I wanted to clarify my own views in my head. This Hitler=Bush shit has about driven me over the edge. Yes, Bush is horrible but he isn't a cold and calculating murderer of millions. I and many other "normal" i.e. "stupid" Americans have a lot of trouble with the premises put forth on this site. You are losing many staunch democrats with these diatribes. I have always supported Israel and probably always will. It's a matter of loyalty, not religiosity.

Ban me if you must but know I AM the filthy average fly-over voter. Quit insulting my intelligence with the same ridiculous propaganda that THEY use. By turning anti-Semitic, the Democratic Party has completely lost me. Quite frankly, it seems the party is just about rich white male & pretty poo nothing to add.

[Moderator]

16. Duplicate.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=998824