Why is there so much hostility toward Northeastern culture?

[_Jumper_]

What is wrong with drinking lattes and reading the New York Times? Why is it politically advantageous to attack Northeasterners as being an alien group among certain regions? Why isn't there this much hostility directed against other regions? I know there is a lot of anti-Southern sentiment but why doesn't that translate into political gain like anti-Northeast sentiment does?

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. two things

Civil War

Civil Rights Movement

A lot of the writign against slavery came from the North East and a lot of poll workers in teh 60s came from the North East.

[_Jumper_]

3. The explains the South

But what about other regions?

[sleipnir]

79. Because the rest of the country envies the Northeast and is jealous

Serious...the Northeast is the best part of America, the rest (and I've lived in the "rest") is just basically crap. I choose now to live in the northeast, as it's the only decent place left to live in this country. The rest of America is jealous of the high paying jobs, high state minimum wage, actual civil rights, honest political discourses and the basic removal of abject poverty (to a degree) just to name a few. Compared to regions like the South and Texas, the Northeast is heaven...It's what America should be, but most people would rather live in a single-party dictatorship and be told what to think and what to do, that's why they live in the South...

[devilgrrl]

83. Yes... Everyone hates the Northeast for its FREEDOM!

:eyes:

[Cocoa]

2. go back to Massachussetts, pinko!

:-)

p.s. I think they can take it.

[HEyHEY]

27. Because people think you think you're better than them

GOt that?

[Kathy in Cambridge]

31. They don't call us "Massholes" for nothing

:hi:

[Trajan]

4. As one who was born and raised in Northern NJ ...

Transplanted to California for 35 + years ...

.. and now living in the Midwest ....

1) We have no reason to apologize for being ANTI-Slavery .... Slave-Masters were amoral .. not those who held them accountable ...

2) Mmmmmmmmmm .. Latte ..... funny how coffee with steamed milk can work up the cockles of so many a GOP hater .... like the "Marin Hot Tubbers" .....

Steamed Milk and Hot Water make you a fuckin COMMIE ? .....

Really ....

3) The Rebels Lost ..... The Union won ...

Call it sour grapes ...

[_Jumper_]

5. What about other regions like the Midwest?

Why are the hostile to Northeasterners? After all, the "Club for Growth" regionalist ad is running in Iowa, not South Carolina.

Thanks for the response thus far. :)

[spooky3]

32. In general but not meaning to stereotype

here are some opinions:

Many Midwesterners feel they are ignored and stereotyped culturally, despite having large populations (check out the electoral college map to see how big their impact is politically).

There is also some anti-intellectual bias. This of course is not fair.

Some of the cities are more conservative there and they perceive Northeastern cities as liberal to the point of kooky.

Midwesterners can't understand how people can pay so much for tiny houses with no greenspace and sit in traffic forever. (I'm still having trouble adjusting to that myself!) They think people who do are a bit crazy. OK, maybe this is not a very important factor.

[Rabrrrrrr]

81. the midwest also has a lot of transplanted southerners

especially in the industrialized areas - when the car and steel and etc. factories were being built in WI, MI, IN, IL, OH, a LOT of Southerners moved "up north" to work in those factories (including Johnny Cash).

Also, you have in the midwest a lot of farmers and recent ancestors of farmers, who tend to think of northeasterners as more intellectual; people don't put in a REAL day's work, but sit at desks, make decisions that affect them (the midwesterners, that is) without caring about it, and - this will sound odd, but I'm a midwesterner of farmer ancestry, and believe me, this is true - northeasterners are the type of people who tend to spend their evenings reading liberal/communist/weird literature/magazines and go to the theater to see naked people and other "deviant" things.

Also remember that, much as people in New England can't name any state on the other side of the Hudson, except the west coast, a lot of midwesterners think of the northeast as New York City. They know there are some rural areas, but midwesterners don't really think that the rural might be like them, and also don't think there are very many and that they don't have any voice anyway - they really think it's all NYC (and NYC expands into NJ and up into MA, and it's all a den of iniquity and gay people and awfully evil uncaring CEOs and all the financial people/bankers that keep taking their farms away.

[DemBones DemBones]

59. I like "lattes", how do you feel about grits?

You can buy capuccino and caffe latte in the South, too, and I've never heard anyone disparage it. Some Northerners really bitch and moan about grits, though, as if we should stop eating something because they don't like it.

That's what pisses Southerners off -- Northerners who come to our home and criticize it, tell us how to do things, make fun of our accents, etc. In other words, assholes who visit here.

P.S. Never just order "latte" in Italy unless you want a cup of very hot milk.

[Trajan]

72. Just hold on there ... pardnah ...

I said nothing about the south or southerners ....

and: .. I said I was in the Midwest .... The Ozarks to be precise ...

Imagine: ... a New Jersey Boy in the Land of Oz .....

And guess what ?..... We have some FINE lattes and cappucinos round here ....

Last but not least: .... I only eat magic grits ....

Like my cousin: ... Vinnie .....

[Cleita]

6. So whose attacking you now?

Those people who attack well read, sophisticated people are ignorant and need to be educated. This is a very hard thing to do, as anyone whoever has had to tangle with a freeper knows, but it really comes from ignorance and a socialization that starts in childhood to hate anyone who has a nicer job, house, car or whatever.

I hate to tell you the abusive things I had to listen to about Californians when I was out of state. I finally came up with line that shuts up most of the critics. I said that most Californians come from other states including this one (name of state I was in at the time).

[Cocoa]

8. Midwestern does not mean uneducated

this seems to be about Iowa, which has one of the best, if not THE best, education systems and literacy rates.

Maybe that assumption you seem to be making is one of the problems?

[Cleita]

10. Did I mention the midwest?

I've never go to the midwest because it doesn't offer me anything I want to see. Maybe the original poster was talking about Iowa, but don't put words into my mouth. I know what I have heard about being Californicated, one of the nicer terms used about my people. The bigotry is there. It exists and you can't make it go away because you don't like it.

[Cocoa]

15. by the way, the "whose" in your original post is wrong

it should be "who's."

I learnt that out here in the sticks. :-)

[Cleita]

16. Get off your high horse!

Correcting people's grammar on a message board is rude. I live out in the sticks too by the way.

[Cocoa]

17. just teasing

for me, and I think most people, regional rivalries are just in good fun. :-)

[Cleita]

19. They're not fun because there are real hostilities underneath

them and they sometimes get out of hand. The stereotypes are irrational anyway. There are as many sweaty working class gobs, who drink Maxwell house coffee black and eat donuts in the northeast as there are in Middle America. Incidentally, the first Starbucks I ever saw was in El Paso, Texas.

[madrchsod]

13. what? i thought we are all

dumb hayseeds and country bumpkins out here in the cornfields. well i guess i`m wrong again...

[Skittles]

35. please explain "well read, sophisticated"

I mean really, that sounds unbelieveably pompous.

[Cleita]

39. If the truth is pompous, so be it.

Although, I have seen Latte being consumed and hot tubs soaked in, in some very rural areas of this country, it is usually associated with city people, who dress up to go to work everyday, more so than small town people do. They probably go to the theater more often than a movie and dine out in French restaurants, rather than steak houses, so it is known as being sophisticated. I didn't invent this definition, it is what it is defined as, urbanity and culture. You have a dictionary, I know.

Sure there are well read people across the board in America. DU is a testament to this, but the original poster actually defined this as something undesirable to many people who criticize northeasteners. So if I put my foot in my mouth trying to explain this please scroll down a few posts where I defend Texans. MAYBE YOU COULD HELP ME OUT!!!

[Skittles]

61. I'm not a Texan; I just live here

I know what sophistication means, but to imply that certain sections of the COUNTRY are more sophisticated than others is lunacy and sterotyping. I've lived in the south for many years and believe me, people here DO READ and DO "DRESS UP".

[Silverhair]

63. There seem to be some assumptions in your post that I desire to challenge.

Why is going to a French place some how superior to a steak house. If I happen to like the food at the steak house that is my choice, and says nothing about about my education or anything else. I have eaten Asian food in Asia, French in Paris, Italian in Italy, Mexican in Mexico. I happen to LIKE eating at a local steak buffet.

I have been to opera and can't stand it. I have been to live plays (And I'm not talking about college theatre either.)and don't really like them. I enjoy a good movie, and I usually like it better on
DVD than in the cinema. I do happen to like classical music and enjoy a live concert to a recording. Yet, my choices are often put down as somehow culturally inferior.

So naturally I react with hostility to those who view themselves as culturally superior, instead of just different.

[Cleita]

69. I give up with both of you.

I did not define the argument. The poster Jumper did. He has been starting several posts designed to get everyone who are usually friendly with each other fighting amongst each other like we are now. I consider both you, skittles, and silverhair, a couple of my internet buddies and I don't want to fight with you over imagined wrongs because you suddenly want to split hairs with me on word definitions. He talked about lattes and reading the NY Times. I thought it was unfair to define northeasterners as snobs because they could be "well read and sophisticated", my way of rephrasing HIS argument.

Any bigotry sucks, even hatred of people who aren't rubes. Hey, I'm a rube. My last job was in the forest. My tools were a shovel and a mop. I wore levis and hiking boots on the job. I live out in the boonies now. My next door neighbor is a horse. I fertilize my garden with his you-know-what, which I get with a shovel and a wheelbarrow. How sophisticated is that?

But I have noticed that touchy people seem to think that we are talking about nobody except them. They read stuff into posts that aren't there. Why did that other person think I was talking about the mid-west? I was thinking about people in my own community when I posted that. The Midwest was never mentioned.

To tell the truth I am really offended that you would look down at your noses at people who eat at French restaurants and go to the theater. That is as big a snobbery as the other kind.

[Silverhair]

70. OK, friends again.

BTW, I don't look down my nose at those who enjoy other of the art forms than myself. That I can't stand opera is a statement about myself, not about opera.

If you have the time, read my post in this thread where I have been to all of the connected states.

Same with food preferences. Not better, just different. Of course I have my preferences, but they are mine.

[drdigi420]

7. rednecks and religion

republikkkans know what their base is: bigots

its not about region so much as anti-intellectuallism

intellectuals question their religion and their racism

intellectuals have been berated by the right wing for years

this is all about pandering to the religion and bigotry of rednecks

[forgethell]

28. 'redneck' is a

racially charged term used to demean and denigrate a specific ethnic group. Those that live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

[QC]

49. Thanks for pointing that out.

It never ceases to amaze me how so many self-proclaimed Leftists are perfectly comfortable throwing around terms of class-hatred.

[AtTheEndOfTheDay]

55. Since when?

Red neck is a term to describe a ignorant, country living white guy with racist tendencies not a specific ethnic group that must not be demeaned and denigrated. Give me a break.

[DemBones DemBones]

66. A "redneck" is a term originally applied to farmers, whose

necks get sunburned pushing a plow (or riding a tractor) in the fields all day.
I'm not sure how much negative connotation was attached to it in the beginning, but It came to be applied to any working class white person, particularly in the South. It became a negative epithet based on class and race at that point.

Finally, the term came to mean a person who is a racist bigot. But surely you realize that all working class whites, Southern or otherwise, are not racist bigots? And the class of racist bigots includes a lot of people who are not working class, not Southern, not even necessarily white.

You wouldn't call Condi Rice by a racist or sexist epithet, would you? It's not because she's black or because she's female that we disagree with her, it's solely because of her political positions.

So why call any white person a "redneck"?

Unless, of course, you're sure that all the meanings of the word actually apply, i.e., the person in question is really a racist bigot, belongs to the working class, and actually farms for a living.

[QC]

67. That's your own personal definition.

I can assure you that most people do not administer IQ tests or a questionaire on race and politics to poor country people before calling them rednecks.

It's a hateful term that has no place among people who claim to be enlightened.

[put out]

85. No break given.

Red neck people are white folks working, out in the sun. If you don't have a hat, or shade, and have short hair, your neck gets red. Ever heard of a farmer's tan? If you desire to give those nasty attributes to people, say it loud, and say it proud.

[Cat Atomic]

9. I think it just grows from the "liberal media" myth.

There are alot of conservatives down south, and they've been sold on the idea of "liberal elites" in the establishment. It's a load of horseshit, of course, but there you go.

[durutti]

11. Good question.

n/t

[madrchsod]

12. why?

there must have been a reason why all the northeasterns moved out here and settled this area of the country- could it be it was better then as it is now? just kidding..

[Solly Mack]

14. Maybe I'm just weird but

one of the beautiful things about this country is that the "regions" are different in many ways...If I could, I'd spend each of the 4 seasons in different states...because a fall in Vermont is breath-taking...a winter in Colorado is a sight to behold...spring in Georgia is filled with renewed life...and summer in Texas is hot...just plain hot...but the sky can be wide open and blue...like the earth goes on forever and nothing else exist but that moment in time...Montana is the same way (big sky and all that)

...for me, it's wonderful to visit different states and soak up the "culture"

Now, all places have the good and the bad...but I seek the good. Though naturally the bad is hard to overlook at times...

I love lattes...and don't attribute any ideology to them. Maybe my coffee is politically active when I'm not watching it but..well..I somehow doubt it.

All tongue in cheek, of course.

The various accents, the various local traditions...all those things make up the whole. For me, it's a learning experience and one I enjoy greatly.

I guess some go looking for the negative while visiting, traveling or re-locating...

I love the north, south ,east and west!...I just don't love all the people...or even like some of them...and there are parts of all that I find less than appealing...and some downright scary. But you know what? I've found the parts that are scary "ain't" about the region so much as a mentality...though some mentalities are more deeply entrenched in some regions. It's like a "typical"....no matter the region...there are just some typicals you run into...now, some typicals are just plain wonderful...and some are downright evil....and some people attribute a meaning to "typicals" that's just plain silly...like lattes...a latte is a latte is a latte...it's just coffee. Not that lattes are a typical...but some folks just want to see them that way to help them label others in a negative light...like Poppy did with hot tubs ....

okies...done rambling...

[Silverhair]

68. I have been in all 48 connected states, in all seasons for all of them.

This is a beautiful country with wonderful people, and I have seen some amazing sights. In Arizona I saw a mirage of distant mountains floating upside down in the air. In North Dakota I have seen your blizzards and your "crystal fog". I don't know if that's the right name for it. I will describe it:

It was minus 30 and a beautiful day with just the barest trace of fog. I was walking outside and notice the air seemed to be sparkling, different colors. I could focus on the flashes, or look past them. Putting out a gloved hand I saw the tiniest of ice needles land on my glove. As these tiny ice needles twisted in the air they acted like prisms and split the light into rainbows. Amazing and wonderful.

I have found that the people that I met were almost always warm human beings.

I made a point, once a week if possible, to eat at a nice local place, wherever I was. The place could not be part of a big chain. And I would order the local speciality. In Maine, since it was almost closing, the waitress fixed me a special plate that had a little bit of everything on it. Wonderful!! I tipped her nicely.

The people in NYC gave me one of my funneist stories that I love to tell. (Slightly embellished of course.)

This is a great country with great people in all regions, and only a few jerks, also in all regions.

[Solly Mack]

77. oooh...the crystal fog sounds beautiful!

Thank you!!! Now I must add that to my list of things I need to see (at least once): winter in North Dakota

[EDT]

18. People always ask me why we keep re-electing Ted Kennedy-

That's the first question I get when I travel for work, and the topic of "Where are you from?" comes up, no matter what part of the country I go to.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

30. I Get That Too-And I Say His Record Speaks For Itself

Then I ask them if they are better off than they were 3 years ago?

Ted has served Massachusetts well. I am proud to have him as my Senator.

[Malva Zebrina]

20. Personally I cannot stand Texans

:shrug:

Recently a family bought some land here on the water--I would guess it is five or six acres or maybe a couple of more. They are original \Texans and what is being built is a mansion--a six million dollar mansion.

Where they decided to build this atrocity is on a piece of land that has significant historical background. They totally obliterated it, brought in mounds and mounds of dirt and have covered up the historical part of their parcel--no respect at all--they are building a monstrosity that also has changed the landscape--it does not FIT in with the landscape but STANDS OUT and that is something that people in these parts do not like--ostentatious displays and disrespect for tradition.

It has a "movie theater" and it has a "wine tasting room" and this for two people only--and it is using the older house, perfectly fine cape, for a "guest house"

It is a blight on the coast of Maine

[Cleita]

21. Maybe it's more a class of people with no respect for

heritage rather than Texans. I lived in the Hill Country of Texas and every Texan worked very hard to preserve the historic towns and buildings there. The original stone houses, built by the German immigrants, were the proud possessions of the owners who worked very hard to keep them authentic. You shouldn't make these generalizations. Texas is a very large state with a lot of ethnic and cultural diversity.

By the way, although Devilya claims to be a Texan, he is from back east, Connecticut to be exact.

[October]

23. I just love the way

Texans are always trying to throw "w" back to the NE.

He rejected us, and we're proud of it! Sorry -- he seems to have adopted you guys for life.

[Malva Zebrina]

24. while that is true

I have travelled as a visitor, up the middle of Texas for hundreds and hundreds of miles, using the black and the blue roads and found many poor and rural towns, and I still say, these are poor districts and they are dried out also, and seemed relatively useless and begnign, but what wealth there is coming here to take advantage of a beautiful coast as I have reported, is ostentatious and is a display only of "wealth".

Sorry, but that is what has happened here in this historical land that has a history going back to the seventeenth century.

It has forever been ruined and altered because, well simply because this Texas family could afford to do so. The name, by the way, is Anderson--and I do not know if it is related to the Arthur Anderson hall of fame or not. Whatever, they have made the land into a farce of a disney world attraction and have also put up a gated community for their property. This has never occured here. We do NOT think of our property as a "gated community" where others are prohibeted from "trespassing" upon. It has NEVER been that way. It is forest and it has always been allowed an access by other neighbors. That is the tradition.

Whatever, they have ruined a historical site--by their gross attempts to appear trendy and rich and to show off their "wealth" by hogging the landscape to show to others what their wealth entails. It is a show of intimidation.

[Cleita]

34. I'm a Californian and I have worked in Texas.

I have noticed that the Californians that others love to hate are the ones we didn't care for either, so they moved on to a state where they could get away with stuff they couldn't in our state. I feel for you about what those Texans did, but I can almost believe that they moved to your state because they couldn't get away with building something like that in Texas. Also, it was probably cheaper and there were no laws in place to stop them.

But that isn't my point. My point is that you are lumping a whole state full of people, who had nothing to do with this, because of a couple of idiots from their state. This is how wars begin over generalizations. This is the beginning of prejudice and bigotry.

[Malva Zebrina]

41. I can understand your concern

but nevertheless, they are rich Texans,and the current squatter in the White HOuse has brought attention to these rich, extremely rich, shallow types, sorry to say. Texans are tied to this ignoramus, as much as I realize there may be many who would like to disengage and distance themself from it--I would be also, were it me.

"it" being the ignoramus, George Bush, who was once elected to be their Governor and who "distinguished" himself as such.

Sorry, but these people who have come here and shown disrespect for the early history of this area, are in my opinion, rich, bloviating Texans with a whole lot of money. They are as shallow and as crass as a Bush wiping his glasses on the coat of some woman who happened to be in his sights.

They have so much money to wallow in, that they can afford to alter the lay of the historical land, change it's historical map, and only live here, the two of them for a few weeks during the summer if at all. I have no idea where they got their moneym, but if I find out, I will be sure to tell you.

[Paladin]

51. Speaking As A Fifth-Generation Texan......

....I can assure you that I do not feel "tied" to the current occupant of the White House, having voted against him at every opportunity. I can also assure you that there is a significant quantity of people who feel as I do in my beloved state, viewing Mr. Bush as an acute embarrassment, and dangerous, to boot. Finally, I can assure you that rich boorishness is not confined within the borders of Texas.

[Malva Zebrina]

84. No doubt

I tried to be careful not to include the entire population of Texas in my posts, lest I be accused of painting with too broad a brush. Sorry--you appear to feel defensive, but the title of the thread , pointing at a perceived dislike of Northeasterners, kind of sets a tone and the Bush family does live in Texas--and has lived there for a long time. Right now, Bush has put Crawford on the map, so the connection is logical, you know. :-) Hey listen, Bush has put Maine on the map also--actually the Walker estate has been here a long time also--but a Bush was never a governor here--they kind of pop in and pop out of Kennebunkport like many of the summer people.

There are also other Texans about a quarter of mile up the road--on another large tract on the water, but they did not build a mini castle and ruin a historic site. We here do tend to get somewhat protective to the point of Xenophobia. It is a poor state and always has lost a lot to those who would come "from away" and are rich enough to buy up all the waterfront--it's traditional--we have a joke here--

Did you know that Massachusetts was once a part of Maine?

Actually Maine was a part of Massachusetts and did not become a state until 1820. The people up here came mainly to fish and travelling to Massachusetts where all the legislating went on became burdensome and time consuming.

San Antonio is nice and friendly -- We enjoyed the River Walk and walked it in it's entirety. We were there on tne anniversary of the Alamo--so saw lots of costume and enjoyed the street fairs. The missions were also interesting and we visited, I think, three of them.

[starroute]

22. A lot of it is standard right-wing prejudices

Anti-immigrant, anti-southern-and-eastern-Europe
Anti-Catholic, anti-Semitic

Anti-FDR, anti-New Deal
Anti-labor, anti-radical, anti-urban working class

Anti-establishment, anti-Ivy League
Anti-intellectual, anti-cosmopolitan
Anti-European
Anti-artistic, anti-bohemian, anti-gay

The precise details may vary from individual to individual, but for a large part of the right wing, the Northeast stands for everything which is THEM. THEM being those alien Unamericans who want to corrupt the true heartland of Amurrrican culture and hand it over to the world conspiracy.

It's all code, directed at the latent fascist element in the US, which makes it difficult to identify it for what it is and even more difficult to prove that it is that. But that's what's really going on.

[Cleita]

44. Thanks for the run down.

I have run into every single one of those prejudices and then some in places and from people who claim to be an underclass and yet are as bigoted as anyone else.

I hope you let me use these points in an essay I am writing about racism, bigotry and sexism.

Thanks.

[arendt]

62. Ding Ding Ding Ding - Northeasterner is a codeword for urban-dweller

Remember my thread "They hate us liberals for our freedoms."?

The fundies hate city-folk, educated folk, tolerant folk, ethnic,
racial, and religious diversity.

Where were the first cities in the US? New England and New York.
And those cities dominated America right up to the 1950s. If you
are looking for a culturally-inherited hatred in this country, it is
the rural America resenting the city folks who set the terms of
trade for two centuries - terms of trade that have always been to
the advantage of slick bankers from big cities.

I say Northeasterner is just a codeword for city-dweller; the same
way we use Southerner as a codeword for bigotted, rural fundamentalist.

arendt

[Kathy in Cambridge]

74. You Just Hit the Nail On The Head, arendt!

:hi:

[Marian]

25. I'm not sure I agree with your premise.

The examples you have given remind me of resentment against a certain class; otherwise known as 'yuppy'.

Yuppies are all over the U.S. It may be fashionable to try to attach them to the Northeast, but I don't know that it's really true.

I have disdain for what 'yuppy' stands for and see this 'latte drinking, Volvo driving, NYT reading' as a shortcut for "I've got mine; you go away."

But, that's just me; what do I know? :shrug:

:hi:

[roguevalley]

26. Regionalism some of it. I also remember the constant drone of people

like Gertrude Stein (I believe) who said anything west
of new york is cleveland. After a while, the resentment
that city folks cannot appreciate the simpler and
equally diverting life of other folks gets to you. I'm
from the Pacific Northwest and we have a live and let
live attitude mostly. That is when we aren't threatening
to seceed from each other and the USA. (Ecotopia) :)

[Cleita]

36. Well, I had to get Idaho license plates up there that I covered

my California plates with, while traveling in those parts, because of the hostility. So you guys aren't all that live and let live laid back yet.

[Arugula Latte]

42. I've found no anti-California prejudice in Oregon

But, then again, I live in the Portland area, and, I swear, almost everybody I meet has spent at least some part of their life in California, like myself (20 yrs. in the Bay Area).

[Cleita]

46. The first time I heard the word Californicator was in

Medford, Oregon. Then I started noticing the signs and bumper stickers. The hostility really got palpable and scary at times, not only in Oregon but in other northwest states as well. I must admit I didn't see or hear anything like this in Portland.

[Devlzown]

33. Sounds more like a class to me, too.

You can find people in the suburbs of Atlanta and New Orleans sipping lattes and reading the NYT on any given Sunday morning. I don't think that sort of behavior in any way defines Northeastern culture -- that's just middle-class American culture.

[spooky3]

29. I think there are biases against every region.

I'm in the DC area. This week a person (an Easterner with a lot of DLC connections (but all of you would like him)) said he thought one difficulty the Dems would have is the gay-lesbian issue (I'm straight, if that matters). I asked why. He said he thought Midwesterners would be opposed to any candidate who seemed tolerant about it. Being a transplanted Midwesterner, I laughed and said
#1, that issue is low on the list of things that voters consider important in this year's election (see the Gallup site),
#2, people who felt that way are probably going to vote Repug no matter who the Dem. nominee was or what s/he did, and
#3, gays-lesbians are a strong presence in many Midwestern cities and I don't think Midwesterners are any more intolerant on this issue than their counterparts elsewhere. Maybe there is a rural-urban difference.

Although I asked him who he thought was watching Queer Eye, I didn't have the heart to ask him whether he realized who put Rosie & later, Ellen, on top in the TV daytime ratings. (half-kidding here as to what that indicates).

[alarimer]

37. who knows

There is a lot of regionalism generally in this country. I have heard people from either coast refer to middle America as "flyover country", meaning I guess that it is not worth stopping for. And of course Texans are particularly Texas-centric. I live there and fail to see what is so damn good about Texas compared to anywhere else.

[Yupster]

38. My brother and I

both grew up in NYC.

He lives in Rhode Island. I live in Texas.

He was offered a better job. I asked him if he was going to take it. He said "yeah right - they wanted me to move to South Carolina. Can you imagine living there?"

Well, I could imagine living very nicely there. I'd pick S Carolina over Rhode Island all things being equal. I was taken aback, not just about his prejudice, but his complete dismissiveness and bigotry. I asked him what was wrong with S Carolina and he mentioned hicks, Deliverance, no front teeth, and married cousins, etc. Completely pompous and ignorant. Quite a pair of traits to combine.

Personally, I think he'd have a better life in S Carolina. The weather is better and for his good income he could afford a much higher lifestyle. He also wouldn't spent two hours a day sitting in the traffic from Providence to Boston.

Anyway, to each his own, but I was surprised by the ignorance and pomposity.

[Arugula Latte]

45. I wouldn't live in South Carolina

for any amount of money. Why? Simple. I believe I would be largely alienated from about 85 to 90 percent of the people there. Why? I'm not a Republican Christian Conservative, and I hate golf. Well, that's my stereotype, but, judging from the way South Carolina consistently votes, it's not too far off. That is big time Bible Belt down there. I would not fit in, and, unlike some people, I can't shrug off that kind of alienation.

[ButterflyBlood]

47. ditto

I just couldn't stand living in a red state, or any place as full of fundies as SC is.

in addition I like having a good punk scene nearby and there is very few in the red states. Most are in major metro areas that are actually pretty liberal themselves (like Atlanta and New Orleans). There are some exceptions (Jacksonville, Richmond), but while SC has some decent bands from what I've heard the kids suck and it doesn't get hit as a tour stop too often.

[mlawson]

48. Ever been there???

I try never to comment on any place I have never been. If you were to visit SC (without the attitude) you might be amazed at how friendly and non-interfering *most* of the people there are.

As in most places, it's never a good idea to discuss politics and religion with people you don't know. SC is no exception, and many of the residents there of larger cities are from everywhere.

[arewethereyet]

65. from what I understand about Oregonians you would love it

so long as you could go for the warmer climate aspect of it.

You should really try and avoid one dimentional views of things you don't understand, it will keep you from experiencing a lot of really wonderful things.

For example I don't believe for a second that all Oregonians are pot-growing hippies. You have a lovely state and a nice and well mixed population.

[mlawson]

40. Reading the NYT and drinking lattes is solely a "Northeastern" thing??

We do it here, too. Check out one of our coffee bars here in Asheville on a Sunday afternoon! You might be amazed how familiar the atmosphere is.

[Jacobin]

43. Capital is controlled in large part from the NE

Much of rural america is more or less a colony.

That breeds resentment.

[QC]

50. Good answer.

When we look back to the Populists and the Grange Movement of the late 19th and early 20th centuries, we find a lot of anti-Wall Street sentiment. And for good reason--farmers were kept poor by the financial manipulations of Wall Street and the railroad industry.

Look to Appalachia and you see the same thing--people living as colonials in their own land, which is mostly owned by outsiders.

[Philosophy]

52. It's actually a form of nationalism

From living in the south most of my life I have observed that southerners are actually encouraged to be belligerent toward northerners (as well as minorities and foreigners) as an inate part of the culture. "Southern hospitality" is usually reserved for fellow southerners. Its actually a form of nationalism that, like the religious fundamentalism so prevalent around here too, helps them to rationalize their backwardness by transferring the blame for it to the imagined oppression by outsiders.

[goodhue]

53. nothing wrong with drinking lattes and reading the NYT

but the NE culture sucks, IMHO!

How typical to believe that lattes and reading is NE culture.
Have you ever been to San Fran, Seattle or Minneapolis.
Now there's culture.

Why would anyone would subject themselves to Boston willingly is beyond me.

It's a simple fact that straight-talking humility is lost on NE'ers.
Dean and Kerry exemplify this in that they can't talk straight and have not an ounce of humility between them.

It doesn't play well in the midwest even among the latte drinking, NYT reading set.

Pardon me for telling you how I really feel. Not very Minnesotan of me. Most unfortunate.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

73. Umm...Boston is a beautiful and cultured city

Has a lot of European flavor that you probably missed. Yes the traffic sucks and on the surface, people seem rude or aggressive. But they're not. They're ACTUALLY very friendly if you start a conversation. People are people regardless of region.

But I think you just pretty much summed up what _Jumper_ was getting at in his post. There is a lot of prejudice against Northeasterners. And it's BULLSHIT.

[dawn]

75. If I could afford it, I'd move to Boston in a second.

And I'm from California. Boston is wonderful, but the cost of living is even higher than in L.A.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

76. Boston is a great city

despite the disdain toward it as a snotty, stuck up place. There are a lot of transplants who fit that description because of the universities. Us townies are pretty friendly, though initially a little rough around the edges. California is a lot more polite. We are a lot more blunt here. But the glass is half-empty and we've raised complaining to an art form (which is a great source of humor).

[put out]

54. I live in fly-over country. I don't resent you or the place you live.

I certainly do not appreciate that some folks regard us as unthinking rubes. I read the Times, the Journal, my local paper, and everything I get my hands on. It turns out, you can chew on a hayseed, and still be smart.

[arewethereyet]

56. arrogance and hypocrisy

that pretty much covers it.

[NavajoRug]

57. I think some of the long-standing prejudices may be valid . . .

In my family, this anti-Northeast prejudice dates back to the Civil War. Not that we were "pro-slavery" in any sense (we actually lived in the Union), but a lot of the anti-slavery sentiment in the North was very hypocritical. The same Union state was so adamantly opposed to slavery had no problem importing thousands of Irish immigrants in the 1840s and 1850s to work in the coals mines of Pennsylvania -- in conditions that weren't much different than what the slaves in the South faced.

[are_we_united_yet]

58. NY Times reading?

Anybody here read it?

[Silverhair]

60. We don't care how you did it up Nawth.

That's a popular bumper sticker in the deep South. Think about it and you have the answer to your question.

[stevedeshazer]

64. This thread

Has to be one of the worst DU threads I've read here in nearly three years.

By the way, my weather is nicer, people are more polite, and we are smarter, taller, more educated where I live, without exception.

And all the women are strong, the men are good-looking, and the children are above average.

Sheesh.

There are only two real categories in Bushco's America: Rich and other.

[solinvictus]

71. The Northeast and California

Because the rest of the country is tired of the perception that these two areas are trying to remake the entire nation in their image.

[rman]

78. what's with all the leading questions?

how about: "is there that much hostitily to begin with?"

[corporatewhore]

80. I think that you are refering to Yuppie Culture

by the way the south northeast midwest and california all suck Texas is the best!!!!And i am going to become governor some day and make being a yuppie illeagel and boot all of the Starbucks consuming (lattes from indie cafe are cool) gap/j.crew wearing BMW/Mercedes driving Bjork listening pretentious yuppie freaks out of texas!!!!

[Lexingtonian]

82. It's all excuses

People just come up with excuses that fit their own insecurities and prejudices and yet do reflect a certain amount of objective insight about groups of Other People.

Northeasterners don't have a lot of insecurities toward the people of other regions of the country. A good number of Northeasterners have the sense of having Been There, Done That, Got The T-Shirt on insurrections, profiteering, winning wars, theocracy, theology, philosophy, abstract theorizing, political establishments, technology, and all that sort of stuff that still gives Red State Republicans a woodie. Historically Northeastern elites have also had- due to greatest proximity- to measure themselves against the elites of western Europe, especially the British elites. The rest of American society has been regarded as second or third tier competition by comparison until quite recently, and this attitude has had a lot of trickle-down from the elites to the rest of society regionally.

So anti-Northeasternism has a very large element of Nietzschean Widerwillen (antagonistic willfulness) more commonly translated into English as the French term ressentiment.

What makes anti-Northeasternism complicated- to me- is that it seems these days to be more and more predicated on New Yorkers/New York City. NYC is unfortunately the schizophrenic form of Northeastern- it is IMHO both the epitome of the classical Yankee attitude (described above) mixed with a prideful and virulent anti-Yankeedom. In the City the two things break most of public life into two parts, though with different admixtures of the two in each case- see the two pro teams and their distinct fandoms in every sport, for example, but e.g. the Giuliani-Clinton political schism is also made brutal by the violence of quakes generated from pressures along this fault line.

People in other parts of the country find this seeming schizophrenia of New York impossible to get their minds around. It gives them multitudes of minute confirmations of their worst suspicions- and disproofs at the same time. The dissonance this generates, combined with the (locally necessitated) stridency and irreverence of all things New York, really gets under the skin of people who have a need for pieties, for uniformity and cultural consensus and a sense that things are at some level simple and rigid and unbreakable.