Navy Museum Honors Poppy-Wimp as "Hero"

[UTUSN]

Yeah, he sez, chuckle-chuckle, that the pilots who DIDN'T get shot down were doing the GOOD flying and more closely approximate "heroism". Not to mention the crew who DIED on Poppy's plane. Oh, look, why, there's a website, which might benefit from information about Poppy's crew.

******QUOTE*****

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2004/01/09/national2315EST0847.DTL

.... Bush was 20 years old in 1944 when he parachuted into the South Pacific after his torpedo bomber was shot down by ground fire while attacking Japanese forces on the island of ChiChi Jima.
"I've never understood that if you get shot down why that makes you a hero," Bush said. "I mean, the guys that didn't are the fellows who were doing the good flying."

Bush's World War II bailout -- which he called "non-elective skydiving" -- was the first of three parachute jumps he has made.

He went skydiving in 1997, and again in 1999 for his 75th birthday, and said he'll make one more jump later this year to celebrate his 80th birthday on June 12. ....

*****UNQUOTE****
On the Web: naval.aviation.museum/home.html

[BiggJawn]

1. Did he "ditch" his other planes?

I recall that the plane he bailed out of and left his crew behind to fend for themselves was either the second or third plane Poppy stuck the taxpayers for.

[markus]

2. George H.W. Bush is not a candidate

and if you think attacking "Greatest Generation" veterans is a great way to win friends and influence people, you are sadly mistaken.

G.H.W. Bush can be accused of much, but I dont' think cowardice is one of those things.

I hope you would reconsider and delete your post before it becomes a topic on Hate Radio.

[UTUSN]

4. Thanks for the Advice

There are scads of threads here pointing out Grand-Poppy's financial interests that benefitted anti-democracy entities, and his own. Bringing up ONE individual's OWN record does not relate to "attacking 'Greatest Generation' veterans." Pointing out propaganda does not equate with "attacking 'Greatest Generation' veterans." You might want to spell out which generations throughout history exempt all its individual members from criticism. And remembering the crew who died and pointing to the pilots who had excellent flying records doesn't equate with calling somebody a "coward", just questioning the "hero" propaganda.

[rasputin1952]

5. I disagree...

if there is evidence, and there seems to be eyewitness accounts, that GHWB to a jump to save his butt, and allowed the other 2 crew members to suffer a nasty fate, he is far from heroic. :grr:

I have stood over many graves of heroes; I have walked with many heroes; and I have seen men and women do all they could to protect their fellow soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines, many times at the sacrifice of their own safety.

GHWB is NOT a hero, and, although he may be part of the "greatest Generation", he is NOT a shining light of that generation.

O8)

[Bozola]

3. Heroism is fulfilling your responsibilities under trying circumstances

Official record:
http://www.airgroup4.com/crewmen.htm
"After releasing his bombs, Lt(jg) Bush turned sharply to the East to clear the island of Chichi Jima, smoke and flames enveloping his engine and spreading aft as he did so, and his plane losing altitude. He advised the CO by radio that it was necessary to bail out. At a point approximately 9 miles bearing 045° from Minami Jima, Bush and one other person were seen to bail out from about 3,000 ft. Bush's chute opened and he landed safely in the water, inflated his raft, and paddled farther away from Chichi Jima. The chute of the other person (either Lt(jg) White or J. L. Delaney, ARM2c) who bailed out did not open."


Eyewitness account

http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=58

“That guy is not telling the truth,” he told The New York Post. Mierzejewski, a recipient of the Distinguished Flying Cross, maintained that Bush's plane “was never on fire” and that “no smoke came out of the cockpit when he opened his canopy to bail out...I was hoping to see some other parachutes. I never did. I saw the plane go down. I knew the guys were in it. It was a helpless feeling.”

[UTUSN]

6. Their Site Hasn't Been Updated Since the 2002 Inductees

Don't know whether this exhibit (below) is where they are sticking Poppy:

******QUOTE*****

http://naval.aviation.museum/home.html ....


The Hall of Honor recognizes individuals for extraordinary achievements in Naval Aviation. since its inception in 1979, the Hall of Honor has enshrined 67 people representing every element of the Naval aviation family: Navy, Marine Corps, Coast Guard and civilian and every Naval aviation warfare community.
The 2002 inductees were:
Admiral Joseph M. Reeves
Fleet Admiral Ernest J. King
Captain Roy M. "Butch" Voris
Lieutenant Colonel Kenneth A. Walsh, USMC

*****UNQUOTE****

from a recent DU thread (looking for it) :

********QUOTE*******
George Bush Sr Is No WWII Hero --John S. McDonald
Wed Jan-07-04 09:11 PM

From Richard Russell's Dow Theory Letter Website:

I get all kinds of e-mails, many of them quite enlightening.
The one below was amazing. I'm always fascinated to hear the
real story about politicians. The e-mail has the ring of
truth about it. Do you agree?
R.R.:

George Bush Sr Is No WWII Hero

By John S. McDonald 1-1-04

I am an 82 year old Navy pilot and I am outraged at
television's depiction of George Bush Sr.'s Pacific
experiences. Now, I hear a book is forthcoming -
Unbelievable!! I was in the Pacific at the same time as Bush
and flew the same Avenger airplane. A small room in the rear
of the Avenger was occupied by the radioman. The gunner went
through the room to get up to his turret. Both wore a harness
to which a chest type parachute could be attached - The
gunner had to come down out of the turret to put on his
chute. Bush said he was hit by anti-aircraft fire and the
plane caught fire. Bush's squadron was primarily used for
patrol and saw very little combat. Bush claimed he warned the
crew, over the intercom, to get out - got no answer and he
could not yell back because of the armor plate behind him. He
decided they were dead, so he bailed out. First, he failed to
say he switched his mike from radio to intercom. Then being
blocked by the armor is a bold faced lie! There was a sizable
gap on either side of the armor. I used this space to call to
my crew several times. The tough old Avenger simply did not
catch fire!! It had self sealing gas tanks. In six months of
operations, I never saw an Avenger catch fire. If the oil or
hydraulic systems were damaged, great clouds of white smoke
would stream out of the plane. I have no idea how many times
i saw planes returning to their carriers trailing smoke but
never a fire. What really happened? It was the pilots job to
hold the plane level and slow it down so the crew could get
out. Most certainly, the radioman was helping the gunner with
his chute when Bush panicked and left the plane. Then the
plane rolled into a dive giving the crew no chance. This
story went through the fleet and all the Avenger pilots i
knew were shocked at what they heard. I heard speculation of
a Courts-Martial. Bush was very young. By his own admission,
he reacted under stress. It is terrifying to have the cockpit
fill with smoke. Possibly, he can be excused for reacting to
fear and accepting it as another war time tragedy - but he
has been glorified on the History channel, a book is being
published, and worst of all, an aircraft carrier is to be
named for him. This is unbelievable!! Bush performed badly
and was certainly no hero. John S. McDonald

******UNQUOTE*****

[Bozola]

7. Nice find.

I remember reading that mail, but I couldn't find it. Thanks for posting it.

"Possibly, he can be excused for reacting to
fear and accepting it as another war time tragedy - but he
has been glorified on the History channel"

This is whole point, for me.