type "City of Character" into your google

[Mari333]

you will see tons of cities come up as "cities of character". Our town is about to embark on it. They better not, because its a sneaky ploy by extremist religious fundamentalists to sneak biblical agenda into city charters and here is some more on it
http://www.charactercities.org/meet.asp
check out the names of the people on the site...I did
http://www.cleanjokeoftheday.com/support.html


I live in a small town called South Haven Michigan..recently the city
council here in town decided to embrace a doctrine sold to them called the
"City of Character" . It has a whole agenda, and many small towns all over
the country are part of it



a few people told me they were concerned about the "city of character"
agenda, so I did some more searching on the web and found out the idea was
from a guy named Tom Hill of Kimray Incorporated
http://www.charactercities.org/meet.asp

KImray Incorporated is an oil and gas global production company

http://www.kimray.com/About/Profile.html

and their AGENDA IS BIBLICAL

Kimray, Inc. is a manufacturer of oil and gas equipment and controls,
servicing producers and equipment manufacturers in the petroleum industry.
In order to effectively serve our stockholders, employees and customers, the
Board of Directors is committed to:

Honoring the Lord in all we do by operating the company in a manner
consistent with Biblical principles.
Serving our employees and their families by establishing a work
environment and company policies which build character, strengthen
individuals, and nurture families.
Producing a high quality, marketable product at a fair price in order
to provide a return on the stockholder's investment, share the Lord's
blessing with our employees, and invest in our community.
We believe that it is by God's grace and provision that Kimray, Inc.
has endured. He has been faithful in the past, and we trust Him for our
future.



SO PUTTING TWO AND TWO TOGETHER... this company is attempting to get
its agenda into small towns and sneak the agenda of biblical principles into
those towns by creating towns called
City of Character agenda..

I think this should be looked at VERY CLOSELY..ANYONE want to do some
more research on this??
THIS is Christian Dominionism tactics!

and it may very well be UNCONSTITUTIONAL!

[AnnaCatherine]

1. Hmmmmmm

Okay, tell me how this can be unconstitutional. I agree with you, but elaborate. I've been victim to the Christian agenda, being a Lesbian and all. I totally see your point, however, they have made no effort to hide their reason for business. Kimray makes it known to all those who read their literature that they are a Christian organization. I can walk away if I want to and refuse to do business with them. That's my choice. Also, they don't look THAT big. Not much of a threat...I know, I know, everything on a Christian march is threatening.

Any thoughts?

AnnaCatherine

[Mari333]

2. Heres a city thats fighting it...

Its an agenda, if you read the websites, that is sneaking itself into small and large towns and calling itself city of character...it teaches biblical principles (evangelical) to people via booklets and seminars..but if a city adopts the idea, and a city council promotes it or uses tax monies to promote it, thats what makes it unconstitutional..
No city or town council in the US can adopt a religious agenda and promote it..but with this program, many are doing so

http://www.liberty1st.org/cfirst.aspx

[newyawker99]

5. Hi AnnaCatherine!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[bryant69]

3. Some interesting wording

"Just as a weed must be completely uprooted to ensure its banishment from the lawn, the community’s needs must be tackled at their source if you expect lasting change to occur."

Wonder what this organization considers weeds.

That said It's hard to get worked up about this. Your suggestion that the fact that this guy is a Christian and therefor this is nefarious isn't something I buy. I'm a Christian; do you think I should be barred from participating in local government?

I mean if you could find a section where they suggested discrimination against gays or members of non-Judeo-Christian religions, than that would be one thing. Ditto if they opposed secularists (which is a new name for Liberals apparently). But without that smoking gun, all you have is vague suggestions that "they have an agenda."

Everybody in government on both sides of the aisle has an agenda; what's wrong with that? DO you think Kerry didn't have an agenda? Kucinich?

Anyway that's my take.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[Mari333]

4. These people are trying to use federal funds to put these

agendas into our public schools...in small and large towns..and to have city councils promote it..
Its fine if a small business or private business does it..thats not against the law..but to use tax dollars to promote it or city council to promote it as a city agenda..
Thats a lawsuit..I have already contacted the ACLU.
heres a website on the cult promoting it

Gothard's "house" has so many flaws, so many questions, so many aberrational leanings, so many structural weaknesses and a foundation that is not New Testament. Its occupants may not be very safe and should move to safer quarters.
A Study in Evolving Fadism - The Dangerous Leanings of Bill Gothard's Teachings by G. Richard Fisher, Personal Freedom Outreach

The Charter School of Excellence, which receives some $800,000 in state tax dollars annually, has more ties to religion than its being inside a church building. Character First! is published by Character Training Institute (CTI) in Oklahoma City, which itself is an offshoot of the Institute of Basic Life Principles (IBLP). The Chicago-based IBLP is the brainchild of a 64-year-old evangelical Christian guru named Bill Gothard, who boasts some 2.5 million "alumni" of his Bible-based seminars, and he promises to give the world a "new approach to life." The Character First! curriculum is directly based on Gothard's teachings — but with overt references to God and Christianity edited out.

Gothard has been accused by fellow Christians of everything from misinterpreting the Bible to ignoring spousal abuse to being a borderline cult leader. (...)

Gothard doesn't focus on the Ten Commandments — he teaches his seven "universal, nonoptional Principles of Life," and he extends those principles to what food to eat and what clothes to wear. Breaking any of Gothard's principles leads to the highway to Hell, quite literally. (...)

Now Florida is slated to become Gothard country.

State Rep. Tracy Stafford and Sen. Howard Forman, both Democrats from Broward County, have introduced bills that would force every public elementary school in the state to teach Character First! — which is mentioned by name in the bills — or, as the bill vaguely puts it, a program "similar" to it. (...)

When asked about Bill Gothard, both Stafford and Forman are stumped. Neither did his homework on the curriculum — they've never heard of Gothard and weren't aware that the man behind Character First! is an evangelical minister. When told about Gothard's emphasis on the "chain of command," Stafford immediately recognizes the danger in such teachings. "I can see how that could lead to a continuation of child abuse," he says.

Howard Forman now says he doesn't believe Character First! should be put in Florida's public schools. "I never heard of Gothard, and I think his ideas sound kind of screwy," Forman says. "I don't support the kind of character training where people sing songs about discipline. I don't support religious extremists of any kind." (...)

A number of ministers and theologians have found defects in Gothard's teachings. Christian scholar and psychologist James Alsdurf wrote a book in the late '80s about domestic violence among churchgoers and came to a conclusion: Bill Gothard's teachings can lead to a continuation of domestic violence. (...)

Dr. Darrell Bock, a professor at the Dallas Theological Seminary, says he's uncomfortable with Gothard stressing authority and hierarchy without tempering it with "Christ-like" qualities. (...)

Baptist pastor G. Richard Fisher wrote in a published article called "The Cultic Leanings of Bill Gothard's Teachings" that Gothard has a habit of "legislating, directing, and regulating just about every phase of life."
<...more...>
Little Soldiers in the Culture Wars - Evangelical radical Bill Gothard's Character First! Curriculum teaches students in Fort Lauderdale to obey his will, New Times Broward-Palm Beach, Feb. 18, 1999


http://www.apologeticsindex.org/i13.html

[bryant69]

6. Well you've convinced me

That Gothard is kind of a nut. But unless that nuttiness is reflected in the program, than I have no problem with it.

[Mari333]

8. the issue is this

the government cannot endorse a religion, or one religion over another. If the city council here tries it, Ill sue them so fast their head will swim. This program is based on evangelical baptist leanings, and we have plenty of mulsims, jews, wiccans and agnostics and atheist taxpayers here in town.
It also cannot drag these materials into public schools as part of the curriculum or be promoted by the teachers.
They know I will sue them now if they try and do this. In fact, theres a large number of us who will sue them.

[bryant69]

25. Yeah but you have to prove that

they are actually teaching unique Evangelical Baptist doctrine.

You can't just lay out your suspicions and act like that is proof.

If you have something to point to in this program that is uniquely Baptist, than I'll support you. Something in this program, not in other things Mr. what's his name has said.

When I say Unique, I mean Unique. Obviously the Baptists believe in being honest (in theory at least, if not always in practice). So do a lot of other religions. And I would be hard pressed to find someone who didnt' believe that Honesty is a good governing principle (again in theory if not in practice). So in order to preserve your notions of Church and State, is anybody who advocates honesty in government a religious nut? I'm sure the answer is no.

[iverglas]

7. interesting wording indeed

Your suggestion that the fact that this guy is a Christian and therefor this is nefarious isn't something I buy.

Perhaps you could quote that wording (the bit underlined for emphasis) as it was used by Mari333. I just didn't see her "suggesting" any such thing. Not remotely. Not by any stretch of the imagination. Maybe if you quoted what it is that you seem to have so sadly misunderstood, she could clear up the misunderstanding.


I'm a Christian; do you think I should be barred from participating in local government?

I like to quote Miss Manners sometimes. What she often recommends people say, in response to impertinent questions, is: WHY DO YOU ASK?

When lawyers ask questions in court (something I used to do a fair bit of), they're required to have what's referred to as an "evidentiary basis" for their questions. They can't just say, "Ms. X, did you kill Mr. Y?", when Ms. X is just the bank teller who watched Mr. Y get killed and nobody has ever presented any reason to think she did it. That kind of question was considered to be asked simply to inflame the jury's emotions and opinions against Ms. X ... and divert their attention from the real issues ... not because there was some real ground, that the lawyer would be capable of presenting if Ms. X denied everything, for thinking that she *had* killed Mr. Y.

So, if I may be so bold, if Mari333 said "no" to your question, would that be satisfactory? And would you have had any reason at all to suspect that her answer would *not* be "no"? And if you had no reason for thinking that, why would you have asked the question?

I can imagine some reasons for myself, but of course *I* am not going to ask questions like, oh, "are you trying to put words in Mari333's mouth and make it look to anyone reading this thread as if she irrationally hates Christians and wants to exclude them from civil society?"

Nooo, I'm certainly not going to do that. I'm just going to say: WHY DO YOU ASK?

.

[Mari333]

9. again the key issue is this is an evangelical baptist group

promoting these materials to be adopted as city charter and promoted in the schools. we have many OTHER christians here besides baptists.
and Rev Dalton of the Methodist church here and other Pastors are totally against this .
I will sue anyway. Drag it into court . Got plenty of people who are going to join me on this one.

[iverglas]

12. and not who they are

... what they propose to do, right? ;) I like that the churches are on board -- demonstrating clearly, of course, that this is *not* a christian vs. christian-hater thing. Obviously.

Good on ya, and good luck keeping them out!

Sounds like otherwise you could end up all living in one of those Disney "communities" ...

Did you ever watch Nowhere Man? (Yum, Bruce Greenwood, one of our cuter Canadians.) One episode had a community like that; everybody watching the teevee, with the little image in the corner broadcasting happy thoughts at them from the civic-minded folks who had taken over.

.

[Zookeeper]

10. I looked at the links and I think you're right...

The City of Character sites don't mention god, but the Kimray site certainly does. The pages that address implementing their program at the government level, are very disturbing to me. It's sneaky; there are statements sound like they would be code words to fundamentalist readers. The overall site looks pleasant and harmless and I certainly could see how someone could just skim it and think it was fine.

What struck me was that it advocates having city governments push "morality," as part of government's duties. A huge red flag!!!
Generally, the conservative argument is to get government out of people's lives, so a proposal like this looks a lot more like a Christian Fundamentalist agenda.

Mari333, I would certainly fight this tooth and nail if it were proposed in my town!

[Mari333]

11. I am..I just got off the phone with one of the city council members

he is against it as government intrusion
so far we have almost 4 votes against it..the key issue, as I said, is a lawsuit. I sent this information to the Michigan ACLU and they hopefully will send a letter to the city and tell them not to do it. If they implement it, I will sue. In a heartbeat.

[Deja Q]

13. Tell them that oil is the product of Satan's orgasm & see how they respond

This is NOT a sex thread, nor am I joking in my assertation.

They manufacture NOTHING. They collect it from the bowels of the Earth. The word "manufacture" is an outright lie. If oil could be manufactured, then "peak oil" and the subsequent decimation of the human race would not occur, nor would you see wild fluctuations in price, based either on the "manufacture" of oil let alone how oil companies nimbly raise prices on weekends or holidays, knowing people want to travel to see their families and communities. (which is a rather evil, unchristian act...)

Natural gas can be Satan's belching for all I care as well...

I love their propaganda though... babble babble babble fair price, babble babble babble God's grace, babble babble Biblical, babble babble babble build character, babble babble lies lies lies manufacturer of oil lies lies lies, bollocks bollocks bollocks community.

They are Satan's handmaidens, nothing more.

[Mari333]

15. I emailed all of the idiots in charge of this agenda

and told them to stay out of my town, as I have contacted the ACLU and will sue them so fast their heads will spin..I cant wait to see their email responses..
the city here doesnt like a lawsuit or bad press..tough titties...
In the meantime, the mayor is one of the idiots promoting it.
what a maroon.

[Physicist]

14. Faith-base initiative funding for atheist group

On a related note, I would like to see an atheist organization apply for funding under Bush's faith-based initiative. Even better, the EPA is funding faith-based programs for fighting global warming. I would like to see an atheist organization apply for that.

I happen to be Christian, but I think atheists and people of other beliefs have the same rights (just like the Constitution says).

[Mari333]

16. amen..actually some wiccan groups are asking for faith based

monies..they will get them, or the whole thing will be thrown out in a flash =)

[Cleita]

17. In California, I'm not surprised about Chowchilla and Fresno, home

of the Free Republic, but Compton?

[Mari333]

18. Like I said, its sneaky

send a letter to the city manager there and send your complaints to the ACLU..Im going to sue if they adopt this here.

[Melinda]

24. Visalia is the CC capital of California

It's positively Stepford there. Fresno remains a bit more eclectic, but it's certainly taken a sharp turn in the last decade.

[peacetalksforall]

19. I recommend everyone read 'theocracywatch.com' to round out

their knowledge about what's going on.

All our attention is always focused on the 'king' and his ministers and advisors and court jesters. Meanwhile the very very very religious right is making inroads into civic, legal, school, education, and media positions on all levels of our country's governance. They are devouring us. They are after your minds, mouth, and your soul.

[Mari333]

20. well they messed with the wrong person and town this time

they dont even want to mess with me..! I will bring them down and the ACLU will be there too..I spoke with another man in town and he said the ACLU is aware of these folks and they send scathing letters to the town councils who attempt this stuff if someone complains..I complained already to the ACLU..Im just waiting to see what the city council tries to do come March 15...
they better not try and pass this shit, or they are toast.
edit to add: OH LOOK THE ACLU ALREADY GOES AFTER THESE IDIOTS
http://archive.aclu.org/news/1999/w090299a.html
I just sent that aclu site to all the members of the city council here.
Let them shake and quake.

[Sugarbleus]

21. Wow, Mari...this is some fine research you've done. I am

going to bookmark this thread and do some more research on my own.

I very much appreciate you posting this info. I am also a christian but I've dropped out of the mainline, fundie/evangelical movement. I am absolutely convinced they (most unaware) support world dominion. I know they mostly support bush. But even with him gone, they go on and the stuff they promote isn't healthy. They actually do NOT like Democracy, deep down. It is a very scary movement and it's been revving up for a number of years now. I want no part of them and I will fight to reveal their agendas to other christians at every turn.

I need to re read your posts here; I didn't quite get why the city's want to adopt these "programs"...what's in it for them?

My little town is a hotbed for liberals but the conservative/religious+agenda are growing here like a fungus. In anycase, we are still liberal enough to laugh the programs you speak of right out of town. Whew! Matter of fact, most rw christians think my town is the birthplace of satan himself. lol

Bravo Mari!
if you are so inclined, leave some more info for me in my inbox.

[Mari333]

22. I think its the mayor and this is a small town

Hes a deacon at his church and some of his evangelical friends think this is some frigging warm and fuzzy idea...they have no idea, how dangerous this is..one of our council members is a libertarian and does not like the idea of government getting involved in peoples personal lives..I agree..anyway, as I said, its a small Midwestern town that has a LOT of crime and drugs...and NO JOBS WORTH A SHIT...
key issue is keeping the poor populace in control but its nothing but Nazi tactics to me
I also emailed the Triangle Foundation in Detroit..they are the gay rights group here in Michigan..the Character city agenda doesnt like gay folks, so Im sure the Triangle foundation will be verrrrrrrry interested in this.

[kath]

23. Bil Gothard, the guy behind Character First is a cult leader., or awfully

damn close to one. He advocates some really whacked-out shit in his Institute for Basic Life Principles.

I read a fair amount about his group a few years back, but a computer crash wiped out my bookmarks. I'll see if I can find any of it...

[kath]

26. FYI, some more info on what Bill Gothard espouses in his

IBLP and Advanced Training Institute. This was copied from a Gothard discussion group in 1999. This is from a Knoxville Mother's Panel discussion. The person who posted it to the list I was on (NOT a Gothardite) began with this editorial comment:

I have a question: Why, if this is a mother's panel, which means it is for
moms only is there this "Jim guy" interjecting in between the discussion? I
KNOW that at the father's panel meetings there is no woman there monitoring
their discussions and interjecting "wisdom". It reminds me of the tea party,
I have to admit. It seems that this man, Jim (possible Jim Samson? an ATI
top-dog), was put there to keep things in order. Did you all notice him in
the other mother's panel discussions that I sent to you? I am going to try
and ask and see if I can't find out why this guy keeps on appearing in the
mother's panel notes.

Also, this will get the blood boiling of some of you moms. A LOT of spanking
of babies is advocated.
******
Here goes, the "Mother's Panel":

>>>Friday Mothers' Panel
Mary Craig
Jerri Dee Flage
Greer Llewellyn
Lori Voeller

Greer-I have 9 children from 18 years to 11 months. We live in Rockville,
Maryland. I'm an exhorter.
Jerri Dee-I'm a prophet married to an exhorter and my 6 children are 11 to 2
years and we're from Minneapolis.
Mary-I live on South Campus Indy, I have 5 children from 23 to 10 and we
work with alot of other children.
Lori-I now live in Oak Brook, we have 8 children our oldest is 22 and
youngest 3. I'm an exhorter.

Q) We have 3 boys 12, 9, and 5 we've tried to come up with different
projects for them to do but we don't have many physical projects they can
do. HOw can they be service-oriented in their free time without constant
supervision?
Greer-Why don't we have enough work? LOL> We began doing the things that
we had asked others to do, there are so many options. When I feel like our
home is in good order, I love to give our children Scripture verses to work
on. We work on chapters rather than verses, different books of the Bible.
Scripture memory with 3 X 5 cards. Also Scriptures on audio tape.
Listening to whole books on tape gives them the whole context of the
passage.
Jim-Do you ever feel you have your children work too much?
Lori -- Lam. 3:27 It is good for a man to bear the yoke in his youth. Idle
hands are the devil's workshop. We are to train the children to work hard
in their youth. I believe a mother's real work force is between the ages of
6 and 13 so our children are working very hard in our home in those ages.
Beyond 13 they're still working but they now need to be relieved of some of
the routine duties so they can move towards preparing themselves for their
life calling. They also need the time now to invest in their younger
brothers and sisters.
I think about the boys that have nothing to do but play that the older ones
should design projects to do with the younger ones. Ex. If younger boy
memorized 15 verses of PS 119, the older boy would buy him a Bible cover.
Mary-When my children were younger I did school in the morning and work in
the afternoon and then playtime. I would work while they played but found I
was irritable and grouchy from working too much. I realized this wasn't
good so When my youngest was 4 he washed all the dishes, sweep the kitchen
and wipe the table! We set a timer for 30 minutes and after awhile he was
able to do it within the time. Now that boy really loves to work!
And now I really think it's important that if I'm working that my children
should also be working.
Jeri Dee-One thing we've done to help them stay on task is to figure out how
long a particular job takes and then set a timer. As adults we work toward
a deadline all the time and we need to teach the children to that. Another
thing to really encourage them is to stand them before Daddy and praise
them.
Greer-My husband went to West Point and has a lot of discipline. He has
helped me delegate chores to children that I would have thought were too
young. We need to fight the world's mindset that we must have playtime for
our children. We should look on things we can do as a family for God as our
pleasure. Working on Scripture as a family can be really fun though mom and
dad are the slowest ones to memorize!
Music can also be a wonderful pastime-our afternoons are spent practicing
our instruments.
Jerri Dee-OUr children dont' have much free time either. WE have found that
our children are more joyful when they are serving and working. OUr 7 and 11
year old have about an hour to play in the afternoon. During that hour they
do have to watch the little ones and play with them also. We also take naps
in the afternoon.
I had heard once that a house ful of 7 or 8 year olds could run the entire
household.
Lori-Something that made an change in our household that in colonial days
children between the ages of 8 and 10 were encouraged to turn away from
playfulness but toward work. We are to do our work heartily unto the Lord,
not unto our pleasures (legos).
We had a "play fast." IT was for one week and then we tried it another
week. So we've adopted the old-fashioned idea that children play on
Saturday afternoon only.
Mary-Our children usually play after supper. I have all of them working in
the daytime. The older ones may go for a bike ride for 30 minutes or shoot
baskets.
Jim-I am reminded of Webster's 1828 dictionary the definition of fun was
merriment in the work of the home?
Q) What have youdone about computer or video games in your home?
Mary - LIfe is not about fun an dpleasure but about responsibility and
serving others.
Greer-We started out with the excitement of having a cmputer in the
classroom with good things on it but one by one they were eliminated because
our children would do their work for computer time. EVen the math software
would tempt them to rush through the things they were supposed to so they
could play and compete with each other. We decided to limit the cmputer.
We do use it for foreign language but we eliminated programs that were not
the best.
God calls us to choose the best. I would just encourage you as you enjoy
the tools that God provides to also weigh carefully what the spirit is that
is being produced. I found that with the computer games it was more of a
self-interest and self-focus.
Jerri Dee-About 3 months ago my dh pulled the last computer game out of our
computer and we haven't played it since. The children would be so focused
on getting to that game that they would do their work too quickly just to
get to it. It was non-productive.
Q)
Lori-We learned about spanking babies. WE learned about disciplning a child
with a rod at the age of 6 months, when the weeds are very little we pluck
them out. We use a 1/4 inch wooden dowel when they are 6 months. If you
ignore those weeds then by the time they are toddlers you have to do
something drastic. WE learned that if we started when they were babies, they
were so much more obedient in coming and sitting and being quiet. OUr goal
was that they be able to sit quietly for 2 hours on Sunday morning. Now
it has been a joy.
I have learned that just one whack on a baby's bottom is not enough, it is 5
or 6 whacks. I found I was spankiing my children a whole lot less when I
did it right the first time.
Jim-You get more fruit by spanking very young and not having to do it so
hard.
Mary-I have spanked a little one-PRov. 13:24 "chasten your son betimes" and
the word betimes means from the womb from the dawn. The idea is to be very
alert right from the beginning what is needful of a spanking.
Jim-What is the answer for getting a child to go to bed at night?
Jerri Dee-You could always try chocolate chips! LOL. On my first baby I
didn't have a clue and she wouldnt' go down and I'd be so frustrated and
angry. By my fifth child someone taught me how to train my child to put her
head down from 3 or 4 weeks old, I encourage them with the tone of my
voice..
At around 6 months I would get down and look through the crib bars with them
and smile at them and say, "heady down, heady down" and I would wait to see
if they would lay down and if I noticed their head coming up I would switch
them on the bottom and say, "heady down." I woulud try to give them the
sense of my omnipresence by sneaking away and then checking on them when
they thought I wasn't looking.
Mary-In Moscow we had delinquent boys, liars, it was very very difficult.
We wondered what we were going to do and they were all in the same room.
There was one extra bed where someone could lay in there with them all
night. At first we couldn't even spank them at all, we told them what the
standard was and that once the light switched off there was to be no more
talking. We told them what the consequence would be if they didn't do
this-they would received dried oats for breakfast with a little water but it
was less preferable than the cooked cereal they usually had. This caused
them to not want to repeat the experience. We didn't have to do a lot of
work but we would just say "this is the consequence."
A parent needs to have some time, it is Scriptural, so whenever the chosen
bedtime is you are in control and it's really important that we must not let
them control us but that God wants us to be controlling them.
Jim-Do you ever use food as a motivator for your children?
Greer-We take to heart the verse that says, "he that will not work shall not
eat" The youngest that we have done this with was 4 and he had to take out
the trash in the house. He would get distracted though and start to play.
I was encouraged by that Scripture to take away his meal when he would do
this and the result was excellent. He has had to repeat that several times.
Some children just need more monitoring and a "short leash" and he was one.
This really sweetened his spirit. We staretd with the older ones and
gradually worked our way down. NOw they have hearts that are open and want
to be instructed.
Jim-ONe of our sons complained about eating soup the third time in a row and
Lori just took the soup away and said, "wel, then you don't eat today."
This boy never complained about food again.
Lori -- (on blanket training) I Cor. 14:40 "let all things be done decently
and in order" and I remember one day trying to teach the CCC and getting
alot of distractions and I just began to cry. I cried out to the Lord and I
think blankiet training is just a lifesaver for a homeschooling family.
I had gotten some training on how to teach a baby not to touch a plant so I
wondered if I could teach a baby to sit on a blanket and not touch the
carpet. So at about 6 months I put them on the blanket and I am there with
a paint paddle and when the baby touches the carpet I spank the hand. First
I go around the carpet and spank the carpet on all four sides and say, "no
touch, no touch." This spanking just gives content to my words.
This whole process is done so speedily---I have the baby on the blanket, the
2 1/2 year old on the blanket and I can teach in peace. WE've even gone to
dinner parties and put the child on the blanket and it's like there is a 10
foot wall around that blanket!
When I met Jerri Dee, her baby was all over the place, but JErri DEe gave
her blanket training. When Jerri Dee came to visit me later her baby sat on
the blanket and let us talk for 1 1/2 hours and did not make a sound that
entire time.
Jerri Dee-They are not unhappy on the blanket. Everyone's spirit is so free
and so happy because there is order. When Mommy is upset and fretful that
is much worse.
Q) How can I stop my children from tattle-taling? They delight in telling
each other's faults?
Mary-I think it's really important when this happens to first of all ask,
"What did YOU do?" Before you get all involved int eh situation, it's
really good to hear both sides of the story. If you have a situation in
your home where you get more irritated with one child more than the rest,
the other children will pick up on that and take advantage of it. Go and
hear the whole story. I woudl encourage the child who came to tell that if
there really was something wrong, to be a leader and go back and appeal to
the other child. It's always good to find out what is the basic issue-why
is this child telling? Get to the heart of the issue.
Q) What do we do if an older son or daughter wants nothing to do with the
rest of the family and looks to his friends for answers?
Greer-first I want to add a comment on the tattletaling. We are instructed
in Matt. 18 that when we are offended to go to that brother. We need to
encourage our children to be mature and go to that brother and be restored.
The first thing I ask when a tattler comes is "Did you go to that child and
try to work it out first?"
One other little key in this that it is so much easier to receive correction
in private, so I will encourage them to work things out privately not
publicly.
Lori-Scripture says that we are not to rejoice in unrighteousness but to
rejoice in righteousness. One wonderful project in the WB was to present
character awards. The children would have lists of character traits and
they would pick ones that they could praise each other for. At dinner Dad
would shout out "I have an announcement to make" and the child would be
given an opportunity to praise another for character.
Another thing that we have just recently started doing-Eph. 4:28 says let
him that steals steal no longer but let him labor with his own hands what is
good that he may have to share with him that needs" For any unpleasant act
that the children do like bickering or criticizing, etc. we don't just let
them apologzie but they have to write a written letter of character praise
for the other child, and go and ask forgiveness. They also have to do
chores for the other child.
Back to last question regarding older child who prefers friends:
Jerri Dee - A wise older mom gave me the word that it's ok for our children
to just play with each other and that they dont' need to play with other
children in the neighborhood. This has gone on for over 4 years and they
have learned to love each other this way.
Mary-I think it's also important to remember that if the child is acting
that way to ask yourself, "Why don't they want to be here? Is there
something missing? Is there a poor relationship (betwseen dad and mom,
etc.) It's not really right for us to force them to do things when inside
they are hurting.
Help the children to see that the family is the most important relationship
to work on. If we say to one part of our body like the toe that we don't
need it, then the body cannot function properly.
Greer-I think of Psalm 1. We read a biography of G. Washington and his mom
said that no friends are better than bad friends. Being alone can sometimes
even allow a child to cry out to the Lord. WE found that when ours were
going through teh ages of 11 12 especially, they were divurging from their
peers rather radically, even other Christian peers. Now my oldest girls
will tell me that I'm their best friend and that is because we didn't
compromise-there were seasons that they didn't do things with friends.
Sometimes our relationships with people can crowd out God. Alone times are
not necessarily bad times. God can use these lonely times to sharpen our
convictions. The Lord has only given us one or two families over the years
that we can really be close with.
Jim-if your children's hearts are being drawn away from the parents then you
know they have wrong friends in their life. We are training our children
that their best friends are in teh home-the ones they will know for the rest
of their lives.
Mary -0- I think also that the Lord had a special design for your child if
He has never brought a friend into the life of that child. Maybe He knows
that they will be in a place where they will need to depend only on the
Lord. Now my daughter who has never had many friends is more prepared to
depend on the Lord.
Lori-I think it is very important that brothers and sisters learn to be
friends. It doesn't always come natural but I believe that God is glorified
when there is unity in the family. One person said to us that there is no
sermon in the world that speaks louder han a Christian family that ihas
harmony.
The Lord gave me a project for my 2 and 4 year olds who wanted nothing to do
with each other. One day I took them aside and said, to the four year old,
"You're a leader, and the mark of a leader is being a gentle servant." Then
I went to our 2 year old and ssaid, "You're under auhority and you need to
be respectful."
Q) How can I overcome the irritation I have against my children?
Jerri Dee-Once the irritation had grown so great even though I had asked the
child for forgiveness I would go on with the discipline. Time plus
consistency equals change. It was a long process but over time God has
given sweet fruit.
Mary-what helped me was to ask myself why am I so irritated. What right was
I feeling was being violated? I was holding on to doing what I wanted to
do, I wasn't caring about their disobedience as much as my irritation. God
showed me that the most important thing was helping my children to obey and
not what I wanted to do. I think that usually there is something that we
won't deal with and that is what is making us irritated. We might get
irritated, then the next time we yell, but we avoid dealing with things
until it gets to the point where we blow up. If we are irritated, we have
trained our children to be an irritant. We have to retrain our children.
The same steps that Lori mentioned about the baby training apply to an older
child. My son every morning would always turn the cups from breakfast
upside down as he carried them from the table. So I sat down with him and
said, "you need to keep the cups upright as you go to the sink." And I told
him that there would be consequences of disobedience and that there's always
rewards for obedience. So the next morning when he did it again I made him
clear the whole table. The next morning he did it again, and he cleared the
whole table and washed all the dishes. If he had done it again, then I
would have had him do those things and also given him a spanking for
rebellion because he kept doing it again and again.
Lori-I would like to add that there's two things that the Lord has given me
to conquer anger. One thing was to make sure that my child understood,
really clearly. Four ponits of obedience is to obey cheerfully,
immediately, unconditionally, and completely. If they do not obey all four
of these points, then that is clearly disobedience and they know that. We
do alot of role-playing and also we had a "salute" day where each child
saluted and said, "yes, ma'am" everytime I asked them to do. They would
also have the children salute and say, "I'd be glad to."
Put music in your voice when you ask your children to do things. (and
smile!)
end<<

[kath]

27. Here's an article about Gothard's Character First programs.

It's actually a follow-up article - the first one, by the same author, "Little Soldiers in the Culture Wars" appeared in this paper on Feb. 18 1999. IIRC, it was a very good and detailed article.
But for some reason I can't accesss it through the paper's archives (If you search the archives for "Gothard", you'll also come up with some Letters to the Editor on the subject.):


http://www.newtimesbpb.com/issues/1999-04-15/news2.html/1/index.html

[kath]

28. Here's the article on "Character First" that I was looking for - EWWW!

http://www.rickross.com/reference/gothard/gothard2.html

"Little soldiers in the Culture War"

Palm Beach, Florida -- One of the lessons for today is obedience, and the first graders at the school inside the First Christian Church building in Fort Lauderdale sing about it quite obediently.
While the students at the Charter School of Excellence are divided fairly evenly between blacks and whites, they dress alike, with the boys in dark blue pants and green buttoned-up golf shirts and the girls wearing white blouses under plaid jumpers. All eyes are focused on their young and attractive teacher, Mrs. Blocker, who leads them in song:

Obedience is listening attentively,
Obedience will take instructions joyfully,
Obedience heeds wishes of authorities,
Obedience will follow orders instantly.
For when I am busy at my work or play,
And someone calls my name, I'll answer right away!
I'll be ready with a smile to go the extra mile
As soon as I can say "Yes, sir!" "Yes ma'am!"
Hup, two, three!

The ditty is capped off with a collective clap from all the happy children in the classroom. While singing songs about obedience and orderliness, they march in place, stand up straight, and occasionally salute in unison, giving the class a slightly militaristic feel. The little boys and girls, however unwittingly, are indeed in a war of sorts: They stand on the front lines of an ideological battle - popularly known as the culture war - for the souls of America's children.

The lesson the children are learning this morning in South Florida has nothing to do with math or science or history; it's about values, about morality, about set ways of how to conduct oneself in life. The curriculum is called "Character First!" and it says little kids should never complain or draw attention to themselves. The children are taught to forgive, to "turn the other cheek," and to "respond kindly to those who hurt me." In addition to instantly obeying their authority figures, they are to be grateful for the chance to follow orders ("I will show appreciation/To my authorities/I will write them notes of gratefulness/For all they've done for me"). The pupils are also taught to "guard my eyes, ears, words, and thoughts," and they are ordered to "abstain from anything which might damage or pollute my mind or body."

The Charter School of Excellence, which receives some $800,000 in state tax dollars annually, has more ties to religion than its being inside a church building. Character First! is published by Character Training Institute (CTI) in Oklahoma City, which itself is an offshoot of the Institute of Basic Life Principles (IBLP). The Chicago-based IBLP is the brainchild of a 64-year-old evangelical Christian guru named Bill Gothard, who boasts some 2.5 million "alumni" of his Bible-based seminars, and he promises to give the world a "new approach to life." The Character First! curriculum is directly based on Gothard's teachings - but with overt references to God and Christianity edited out. Gothard has been accused by fellow Christians of everything from misinterpreting the Bible to ignoring spousal abuse to being a borderline cult leader. According to materials Gothard has published, his more radical ideas come from his belief in a "chain of command," which holds that authority figures - from preachers to politicians to middle managers - are put in their elevated positions by God. Mess with your boss, you're messing with Christ. Women are taught to be submissive and obedient to their husbands. He teaches his followers that political leaders are ordained by God and therefore to be obeyed. Gothard doesn't focus on the Ten Commandments - he teaches his seven "universal, nonoptional Principles of Life," and he extends those principles to what food to eat and what clothes to wear. Breaking any of Gothard's principles leads to the highway to Hell, quite literally. Another path to Satan is the drums. The "backbeat" common in rock music is evil, according to his teachings, as are chords played in the minor key, which is a subversion of God's harmony.

<Much More>

This "Character First" crap does not belong in government agencies or public schools, period. You're right to be very concerned about it Mari.

(if you Google Gothard "character first" a lot of interesting stuff comes up...)