Why are Americans so surprised that the rest of the world does not stand

[prolesunited]

with us? A CSPAN caller just expressed dismay that the recent Pew poll indicate that people from other countries do not like this administration. Why does this come as such a great shock to some?

Also, many bring up past history and actions as reasons for loyalty. Should the U.S. just get a pass because our previous role in the world? Does the world owe us?

[DarkPhenyx]

1. I'm not surprised...

...and no we shouldn't. We used up that credit a long time ago. Unfortunately most of it was burned up by stupid, drunk, "ugly Americans" going to other countries with that "we kicked/saved your ass 50 years ago. You owe us big!" attitude.

It's a lot like listening to the guy who once loaned you $50 and never lets you forget it.

[ulysses]

2. right - it's all about WWII

It's a fetish for a lot of folks, especially on the right. Of course, it's fun to point out to them that, frankly, we owed the French for their help in the Revolution. :D

[DarkPhenyx]

9. Shit...we owe the French for their help in WWII.

Contrary to popular opinion the French didn't jsut roll over w/o a fight, and if it wasn't for the French Resistance we never would have been successful on D-Day. Inconvienant facts that we tend to forget about.

[ulysses]

11. true enough.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

17. Good point

America also wasn't brutally occupied by the Nazis. The French Resistance took significant risks and aided the Allies once they got to France. But the right would prefer to think of them as cheese-eating cowards.

[prolesunited]

18. Umm...

I think that's "cheese-eating surrender monkeys" :eyes:

[seabeyond]

3. i have sat with my little ones

and told them, never in our history have we seen our president having to go to all these countries hat in hand to try adn make up. another indication what a poor job he is doing

[truthspeaker]

4. a lot of Americans are truly unaware of our history

They have no clue that we sponsored Pinochet's coup in Chile, tried to subvert Italian and French elections during the cold war, supported right-wing death squad parties in Latin America - just to name a few. If you try to discuss ANY negative action taken by the United States government at any time right wing pundits label you "anti-American", "America blamer", "whiner" etc. They take any criticism of actions of the government as criticism of the country as a whole, so there's no real discussion of foreign policy.

[Mika]

7. Plus

Not too many Americans who pull the 'Europe owes us' card are even aware of the extent of our country's involvement with the German/Nazi regime. US banking, auto/military industries, heavy manufacturing, chemical companies, etc., all helped the Nazi rise to power and strength, including the use of slave labor in Germany. Yep, we helped save "old" Europe.. from the monster we helped create (sound familiar?).

[NewJeffCT]

20. True

Didn't the Bush Crime Family make a lot of money selling things to the Nazis, including for months after Germany declared war on the US?

[prolesunited]

25. You recall correctly

Here's a couple of quick links on that

http://www.freepressinternational.com/prescott.html
http://www.washtimes.com/national/20031017-110534-8149r.htm

[keithyboy]

34. A lot of Americans don't understand that they ARE Europeans too.

Where the hell did most Americans come from?

[Spentastic]

5. Because

They have been indoctrinated since birth that they are the best nation in the world?

[GOPisEvil]

6. So many Americans believe that the US is a force for good.

And, in many instances it is. However, we have been a destrcutive force many times as well. We've been a destructive force to people who have long memories. Most Americans can't remember what they had for lunch yesterday.

The damning part about "past history" is that we tend to remember only the American sacrifices. Our sacrifices in WWII, while certainly significant, were nothing in terms of % of population compared to the French, British, Russians and other nations.

So, the bottom line is that a lot of Americans fail to realize the negative effects of US foreign policy and what history we DO know is so American-centric that we put forth a skewed view of the world. Add that to the fact that our culture is expanding EVERYWHERE, and I can see why people would get pissed.

The other side of that is that whenever there is a problem, countries tend to come running to the US because we occupy a position of leaderhsip in the international community.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

31. America has the merit of creating the least evil of empires.

However, even the least evil of empires is still evil.

[gula]

8. Madeleine Albright on CBC radio this morning

said that OBL had succeeded in dividing Europe and the US in a way that not even the USSR had managed to do. What planet does she live on? Has she never heard of the Bushistas? Certainly, it seems to me that any division is caused by the current US government. Never has the West, US excepted, been more united than in their loathing of the Bushistas and their murderous, meddling and mean-spirited ways.

[Virginian]

13. I think she was trying to not sound partisan.

It might have been stated as: The reaction to OBL by the Bush Administration has divided us from Europe.

OBL actually brought us all closer together. There was a potential for a unified front against OBL but Bush squandered all of that with his arrogance.

[truthspeaker]

10. part of the problem is black & white thinking

Many Americans, including some very powerful ones, cannot grasp the concept of a country that mostly does good but sometimes does evil. It's all or nothing in their simplistic little minds.

[sweetheart]

15. I think you've got the root

Our culture has created games and a concept of relationship that is
zero sum. The woman wins in divorce. The man wins in a basketball
game. A kid wins at a track event. Each case, the cultural frame
for winning is that everyone else must lose.

There is no concept of a cultural game where players come together
for synergistic benefit. There are a coupla late night british
game television politics TV "game" shows, but the way the game is
played is just with jokes like at a pub. Its the finest wit that
wins the game and how it is scored still mystifies me.

This ability for brits to laugh and come to a shared benefit
arrangement with other parties is a cultural wisdom that has kept britain successful all these centuries. Would that america might
borrow such gems.

[fudge stripe cookays]

12. I was called a communist recently.

My 20th high school reunion is this summer. On my profile on classmates.com, I have "liberal" as my political affiliation, and in my remarks, I mentioned that I'm married to a Canadian.

When I was gung-ho for Dean I mentioned my major involvement in campaigning, and how we'd probably leave the country if Bush "won." Admittedly, probably not the wisest thing, but I don't believe in hiding anything. I am who I am. And I'm not the mouse I was in high school.

On our Yahoo group, someone went into our contact page on the Database, and next to my contact information added, "I'm a Communist, and I'll be moving to Canada in November."

Yes, I have an abuse complaint into Yahoo. You can bet I'm trying to figure out who it is. I have special plans for the coward when I see him/her in July.

[prolesunited]

14. Here's the link

for the Pew poll:
http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?ReportID=206

A few excerpts:
Americans have a far different view of the war’s impact – on the war on terrorism and the global standing of the U.S. – than do people in the other surveyed countries. Generally, Americans think the war helped in the fight against terrorism, illustrated the power of the U.S. military, and revealed America to be trustworthy and supportive of democracy around the world.

These notions are not shared elsewhere. Majorities in Germany, Turkey and France – and half of the British and Russians – believe the conflict in Iraq undermined the war on terrorism. At least half the respondents in the eight other countries view the U.S. as less trustworthy as a consequence of the war. For the most part, even U.S. military prowess is not seen in a better light as a result of the war in Iraq.

<snip>

Publics in the surveyed countries other than the United States express considerable skepticism of America’s motives in its global struggle against terrorism. Solid majorities in France and Germany believe the U.S. is conducting the war on terrorism in order to control Mideast oil and dominate the world. People in Muslim nations who doubt the sincerity of American anti-terror efforts see a wider range of ulterior motives, including helping Israel and targeting unfriendly Muslim governments and groups.

Large majorities in almost every country surveyed think that American and British leaders lied when they claimed, prior to the Iraq war, that Saddam Hussein’s regime had weapons of mass destruction. On balance, people in the United States and Great Britain disagree. Still, about three-in-ten in the U.S. (31%) and four-in-ten in Great Britain (41%) say leaders of the two countries lied to provide a rationale for the war.

[democratreformed]

16. It's called arrogance.

We are America. We are always right. Just my opinion, but I think a lot of people feel that way. I don't understand it either. Some people may never realize that we are NOT above everyone else in the world b/c of who we are and where we live.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

19. Chalmers Johnson's "The Sorrow of Empire" addresses this anti-Americanism

we have military bases all over the world, which are basically outposts of empire. Our military is not subject to local laws, which causes resentment of the local population. Johnson argues that this military empire mentality teaches racial superiority, arrogance and disdain toward non-Americans.

I am on page 50 of this book-and I'm horrified. Definitely worth reading...

[sinkingfeeling]

29. I got about half way through "The Sorrow of Empire" and just

had to put it down. It's been about 3 weeks now and maybe I can finish it. I was so horrified by what I was reading and so angry that I asked my 34 year old son if he wanted to sell everything we own and go underground to 'eliminate' these people. (I'm a devout pacifist, so you know I was upset)!

[Kathy in Cambridge]

33. that's exactly how I feel

and I'm only on page 50

[Malva Zebrina]

21. Most of those who call in express the Ugly American frame of mind

we are the biggest, the best, everyone else wants to live here, Europe should be grateful to us, we help everyone and they do not appreciate it, --one caller insisted that everyone is jealous of us and mostly these callers are, imo, mature aged people. They are the Ugly American generation that assume superiority while clucking about the unfortunates elsewhere who want to live here. I think the younger generation is the one that is able to travel worldwide, gets information up front and personal, is more accepting of new ideas and of people of differend cultures and beliefs. The time will come when Americans can no longer consider themselves the ruler of the world. There will be a lot of cognizant dissonance when that happens with some die hards who are ignorant and there may be a few stops and starts, but it will happen someday--

George Bush never travelled and was so ignorant that he, in spite of living in New England and summering in Maine, did not know where Prince Edward Island is; he is quite the quintessential Ugly American in attitude and he has enabled these types--jerked them into following the notion that we rule the world--we have the biggest and the best equipped military, but recent events in Spain show that that rules nothing--actually, in democracies. It rules nothing when it comes to honor and truth in our dealings with others around the world.

[SpaceCatMeetsMars]

24. It's true, and when they do travel, they don't want to listen

I was in a cab in Montreal last fall, going to see the gardens and the former Olympic site and the cab driver said he was glad he had emigrated to Canada, not the US. He said Canadian cities don't have the big ghettoes and crime that the US has and he pointed out that we were going through the worst neighborhoods. They were poor, but it was nothing like the poor neighborhoods in our cities.

Then we went up the funicular to see the whole city and you could see he was right when you saw the whole city laid out below. I asked two other cab drivers if they agreed and they said definitely, yes, better quality of life for them. Americans don't even realize that immigrants prefer Canada to here now. Canada is right next to us and Americans don't even know anything about it!

[_Jumper_]

36. you're correct

A poll a few years ago found that only 2% of Americans knew who the Canadian prime minister was.

[sinkingfeeling]

30. While I agree with your assessment that alot of Americans believe

we can 'do no wrong' and are the best in the world in every way, I take exception that most are mature aged people. There are alot of us that came of age in the 1960's and 70's, who began to understand then. I blame alot of our attitudes on the 'pop culture' as well.

[Malva Zebrina]

37. just my opinion on the age of the callers who call in to

CSpan Washington Journal. On the average I would guess they are of the senior generation. It is seven or eight o'clock in the morning. I doubt those who are younger, who are busy getting off to work or to school are calling in and waiting for an hour or so to say their piece. I could be wrong but surely this younger generation is exposed a lot more at an earlier age to all sorts of people from all over the world--via the internet, or via the easy traveling that many engage in than were those who are now in their sixties and seventies. Also there is quite a vigourous exchange program going on within our educational systems and that was not happening ;when the older generation was growing up. I am not saying there is not wisdom there, but, really, if you listen carefully

I am sorry, I did not mean to offend any--my point was,acording to my observations of callers on Washington Journal, and I will stick by it: that the older generation is inclined to be more like the fictional Ugly American than the younger,who I think is more exposed to cultural diversity and the nuance of political correctness than the older generation. Have you read "The Ugly American"?

Oh I don't know--the p0p culture--I remember and was a member of the existential "beat generation" :eyes: which everyone was certain was corrupting this country beyond repair. I will say though, that I still prefer artists and poets to the more violent or shallow forms of entertainment we see today. There is good and bad and in between in both.

[xchrom]

22. people who belive america's role as predestined and sainted

should have their mythological heads examined.
the trends in people exercising their right not to vote should give americans the biggest reason to be shocked and alarmed.

[kodi]

23. because most americans think the sun shines out their anus

all the while they have their heads up their ass about what goes on outside our borders.

a simple case in point is when the average yahoo hears of a european "socialst" political party. they consider it doctrinaire marxist and ramble on about the evils of communism without any understanding of the cultural factors or programs of such "socialism" in europe.

[Bonhomme Richard]

26. We are the teenager of the civilized world........

and we display "the world revolves around me" arrogance.

[prolesunited]

40. I like that analogy

I'm sure we will look back and wonder when the rest of the world got so smart.

[Vladimir]

27. Well, if we used that argument

then since everyone owed Uncle Joe in 1945... :)

Of course such debt arguments are ludicrous. Once again, they expose the contradiction between the preacher's words and his deeds. Time for an inquisition...

V

[opihimoimoi]

28. Ignorance Rules

Madness Reigns

[supernova]

32. Americans are an incurious lot; we don't learn much

about other places, other cultures. We even expect everyone to speak English when we do go abroad.

Frankly we've never had to. We've never been defeated on our own soil (perhaps only Native Americans and Southerners share this experience) so we don't know that feeling of having to integrate that into our national psyche.

[devinsgram]

35. Easy to explain "Media"

They have a media that does lie to them. They are more informed.

[skippysmom]

38. The rest of the world can't stand us

because so many of us don't know why they can't stand us. We can't seem to understand why our actions may be perceived of as arrogant.

Not to mention that far too many Americans never travel. They're lucky if they ever visit other regions of the US, let alone other countries.

[historian]

39. ignorance

They are all feeding off the second world war - certainly the gi's who went to europe and asia fought well and with great courage for something they believed in, but since then it has been downhill. After hitlers defeat, our whole foreign policy was involved with toppling or interfering in other countries for the sake of the dollar. We put murderous thugs in place of legit govt who, with our blessing, massacred their citizens.
By the way, death squads were invented here for use in latin and south america.

[sir_captain]

41. Just to play Devil's Advocate

While I generally agree with everything being said here, I think it's possible to go a little too far in the other direction as well. Let's not give Europe a total free pass here. I don't believe that Europe has taken nearly enough responsibility for their actions in a lot of parts of the world (look at Africa for a prime example.) Most Belgians have no idea what their country did to the Congo, for instance.

One of the best things about our country is its history of dissent. I'm not sure that this is something that many Europeans understand about America--they equate us with our President.

Lord knows it's a very complex dynamic. On the one hand, most of the world still wants our products, our movies, our music, etc. On the other hand, I think that they, much like many Americans, blame all of the world's problems on others without looking at all at themselves. They don't like us, but they sure want our tourism and want us to keep on sending over new episodes of The West Wing. Just like my mother told me when I was a little boy, the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle.

As for getting back to the original question about most non-Americans not liking our administration, well, more power to them!