Aftermath of the Fallujah massacre - Future of the US worries me

[fujiyama]

I was going through on an unnamed message board on the internet, and there was a discussion about what Bill O'Reilly said the other night on his show, and while O'Reilly is a rightwing douchebag, his recent statement in regards to the aftermath of the horrible deaths the other day, echo the policies of Nazi Germany.

I don't say this lightly, for I have actually said comparing the policies to those of the Nazis is offensive, but it seems as though many aming the right want to use those methods against the Iraqis -- apparently O'Reilly wants the US to use Saddam like methods. And this is supposed to be a liberation? God, I never favored this war, but it seems as though the imperialism is losing its pretexts as a liberation, and the clothes are coming off to expose naked imperialism for what it is.

The name Lidice was mentioned, and while it may seem an exagerration to compare an aftermath that hasn't yet occured to the destruction of an entire town by the Nazis, there is no reason our nation couldn't purpotrate such horrors - and in fact it has done so - like in Vietnam.

Honestly, this is all very disturbing. While I would hope as much as anyone that those that would savagely beat Americans to death and cheer would face justice, I have no idea what it means to say, "there will be a reaction". What kind of "reaction"? What is the US going to do? Go door to door, looking for the purpotrators? The media has decided to report this EXTREMELY irresponsibly. Not only has it decided to make a great political sap to the administration (as usual) by not showing any footage (I remember the media replaying Mogadishu footage repeatedly and I didn't pay a whole hell of a lot of attention when I was that age), they also haven't discussed why this is happening, and why this shows going in was a disasterous idea in the first place. They haven't touched on the fact that this was a private group subcontracted to do security work. I wouldn't be surprised if this same Blackwater company is a big Bush/GOP contributer.

Along with that, I fear the left is fractured. Inspite of having nominated a very liberal senator, there will be at least two other left leaning candidates drawing votes away. I wasn't alive in 1968, but I fear the same thing will happen -- and the current president, a million times worse than Nixon ever was, will exploit the fear, and actually win a second term.

[neverborn]

1. Two people from the left?

Who? Nader and...?

[fujiyama]

2. Green Party

It seems like they're going to run a candidate as well.

[Qanisqineq]

3. is there a link for what O'Reilly said?

or can you sum it up for me real quick?

[fujiyama]

4. According to the other site

(which I don't think can be named on DU), this is what he said:

1. We must employ the "iron fist" in his words
2. Evacuate the entire city and place all the citizens in a camp.
3. Anyone who remains in the city will be shot on sight.
4. house to house serches and destruction of those buildings that appear dangerous. (he's talking about houses)
5. All firearms will be confiscated.
6. Anyone found with a firearm will be imprisioned no questions asked.
7. As these people know Saddam, we must use Saddam's tactics.
8. In the end accordung to his exact words," No more Fallujah."
9. Use only American troops, no Iraqis. They cannot be trusted to carry out the mission

I should add this as well:

==================================================================
Twice the retired General and the Lt. Col. said that this would inflame the people of Fallujah. O'Reilly's answer was "I dont care about the people of Fallujah." and when it was brought up that the people of fallujah would possibly react to this with more violence O'Reilly countered with "I don't care how the people of Fallujah react." The retired military officers were visably shaken by these comments.
==================================================================

[Must_B_Free]

5. sounds very Naziesque

particularly #2

[NMDemDist2]

6. Sounds like Sharon in Gaza

[aquart]

7. My favorite is the one about the "camps."

Guantanamo ain't enough?

[Qanisqineq]

9. Ugh. I'm sorry I asked.

[theoceansnerves]

18. correct me if i'm wrong

but i believe the biggest outrage has come over his use of the phrase "final solution" during this segment.

[charlie]

19. You betcha

"You know it, the colonel knows it. The colonel and I are disagreeing on the tactics, but we know what the final solution should be. Why hasn't the U.S. command done this? And why do they continue to absorb the level of terror that is coming out of -- this isn't a big town. We're not talking about Cincinnati here. Right? It's not a big town?"

[theHandpuppet]

23. Actually, population-wise, they're comparable

Just goes to show what an ignorant Nazi O'Reilly really is.

[gottaB]

20. Atrios had a snippet

http://atrios.blogspot.com/2004_03_28_atrios_archive.html#108082469728308171

It *could* be interpreted in any number of ways, but in the context of the discussion and the advocacy of extreme violence, it was a fascist thing to say.

[charlie]

8. Comparing their policies to Nazism isn't offensive

It's just dumb hyperbole unless it can be shown that the comparison fits. It fits. The difference is only in degree, not kind.

[The Night Owl]

10. I would like to ask O'Biley...

What is the point of "liberating" Iraq from Saddam, if we have to rule it the same way Saddam did?

Just amazing.

[Qanisqineq]

11. good point

My husband returned from Iraq last week and he says he is glad he got out when he did. He expects the shit to really start hitting the fan this summer.

[RowWellandLive]

12. I've never heard such idiotic crap in my life!

Stop making comparisons to Nazis! It is utterly degrading and insulting to all Jews. Do you people not comprehend that it was Hitler's desire that an entire race of people be exterminated from the face of the earth? All Jews, regardless of religious practice, they could be atheists, were to be killed. Including babies, children, the converted, the elderly, and the infirmed. There was no escape if you had one drop of Jewish blood.

You can disagree with o'Reilly without comparing him to a Nazi which he is not. The murderers of fullujah deserve to be punished for their dastardly deeds. The Saddam loyalists that remain there have robbed, tortured and killed many innocents in "ethnic" cleansing. All of the prosperous Jewish property owners have long since been expelled. I know several.

Saddam was a brutal PoS dictator. I shed no tears for him or his leacherous followers. To shed a tear for them is another way to promote brutal regimes, like the Nazis. I will have no part.

[fujiyama]

13. I can ask only one thing

:wtf:

Are you trying to insinuate somehow that I'm an apologist for Saddam or that I don't understand the horrors of the holocaust?

I'm trying to say that the path this nation is taking is HORRIBLY WRONG and at times certain things (not ALL things) parallel with other nasty regimes of the past.

FUCK O'REILLY AND OTHER RACIST FILTH LIKE HIM. Maybe you didn't read what he wants done in Fallujah.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bobbyboucher]

14. Were you supportive of Saddam

back in the 80's, like so many on the right? It was OK then, you know. You can admit it.

As for the murderers in Fallujah, they did their thing and then hauled ass. The rest was just the crowd. A mob mulilated the bodies, not the actual murderers. So, who are we going to kill and how are we going to find them?

[adjwilli]

15. Jews are a race?

Think long and hard before you answer that.

[aneerkoinos]

21. Better to speak about fascism

Nazis were just one particular fascist party. What I find degrading is equalling fascism solely with antisemitism, it is degrading to all other victims of fascism like gypsies, handicapped, communists etc. It is only dangerous, not understanding what fascism is, allows it to raise it's ugly head again in hate speech and hate policies from people like O'Reilly, Sharon, Perle etc. Yes, jews can be (and are) fascists just like any other religious nomination.

And by "murderers of Fallujah" I presume you mean the US troops that are responsible for killing of dozens of innocent Iraqi civilians in that city?

[Djinn]

22. No it isn't offensive for all Jews

but thanks for speaking for everyone.

As I've pointed out on this board Hitler was a vile enough murderer without having to attribute actions/desire that he didn't have - that trivialises it AND gives amunition to anti-semites and Neo Nazis alike.

You say

"it was Hitler's desire that an entire race of people be exterminated from the face of the earth?"

Wrong - he wanted them out of "greater Germany" he was more than happy for them to have a homeland elsewhere. It doesn't make him any less one of historys worst mass murderer - just a historical fact.

As for "punishing" the murderers of Fallujah - can you think of a way to proove who they and all their supporters actually are? Has it occured to you that THEY maybe felt they were "punishing" the American murderers of their families? Do you REALLY beleive US propaganda that all the people currently fighting the American forces are pro-Saddam? while he did have remnant support in Fallujah to pretend that this all about Saddam is to put your head in sand.

[Guaranteed]

24. Here's what he said:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,115974,00.html

'It Is Time to Use the Stick'

Friday, April 02, 2004
By Bill O'Reilly

<snip>

This is simply bad policy. In order to stabilize Iraq, a carrot and stick approach must be used. 75 percent of the country has now been pacified. The remaining dissenters must be harshly dealt with. Fear can be a good thing. Homicidal terrorists and their enablers must be killed or incarcerated. And their punishment must be an example to others.

How do you think Saddam controlled Iraq all these decades? He did it by fear. We can't use his tactics, but we can certainly punish murderers and deprive towns who harbor killers of liberty.

"Talking Points" fully expects the U.S. Marines to use maximum force in punishing the Fallujah terrorists. That town should be quarantined, placed under marshal law and a curfew imposed. Any violators of the curfew should be shot on sight.

It's obvious that the terrorists in Iraq believe they can murder Americans and get away with it. The Pentagon has not contradicted that belief. It is time to start protecting American soldiers. It is time to use the stick.

<snip>
--------------------------------------------

So, basically, he's saying that they're all terrorists- which is a very serious misnomer, since they didn't attack civilians. They attacked armed "contractors" and soldiers.

[fujiyama]

25. Thanks

I hadn't seen the actual show. I can't stomach him on for more than the second it takes to flip past the channel.