Blind Patriotism makes me ill

[ringmastery]

I read a story like this and I don't see a hero. I see a fucking idiot who had it all and threw his life away.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20040423/D824MTB80.html

[sangha]

1. flame-bait

very poor

[KissMyAsscroft]

2. I agree...

It's not PC, but I agree. But Rangers are crazy individuals, so I guess they are needed.

The fact that he was fighting in Afghanistan makes it better than if he was in Iraq though.

[russian33]

3. I don't think he's an idiot...

...and while I appreciate the tragedy, but this is getting so much news, you'd think there weren't 700+ others killed, but only him. I wish all of those young boys and girls got this recognition. America's obsession with celebrity, as usual.

[mountainvue]

27. I thought the same thing as well.

But then I realized that if that's what it takes to put a face on it for the masses then so be it. This will probably get more coverage than Tami Silicio losing her job for phtographing the coffins.

[PeteC]

4. Actually

I see a guy who could have been a Ranger and put on a show (recruitment tool) but chose to be a "regular guy" with his brother. Don't confuse the hype of the media whith the character of the person. He's just one of 700+.

[truebrit71]

5. I have mixed feelings about this whole story...

..I feel sadness for his family of course, but it was his choice.

He felt he had to do something about the attacks on 9/11 and so he joined up. At least he was in Afghanistan, the most logical place to go for someone looking to avenge 9/11 in some fashion, rather than being another statistic in the growing number of dead coming home in boxes from Eye-Rack.

It will be interesting to see how/if the * campaign tries to use this unfortunate death to bolster support....I wouldn't put it past them...

[Blue_Tires]

6. right or wrong

he sacrificed his life and a rich, cushy existence in the NFL for what he believed in...whether you agreed with his reasoning or not, you have to respect that...

[Philestine]

8. Great minds..

[Philestine]

7. Hardly an idiot.

The man clearly died a hero in a cause that he believed in. Whether you agree with that cause, I don't really think matters that much. I imagine you could say you could argue he was blinded by national fervour, but whatever his beliefs, he made a huge sacrifice to leave a successful career and paid a price that many of wouldn't have for his beliefs.

"He proudly walked away from a career in football to a greater calling"

Hmm, not sure I can agree entirely.

[LTR]

9. I disagree

WARNING: Potential flamebait

I despise the war in Iraq, but feel that Afghanistan had to be done, obviously because of the events of 9/11, and the fact that they were blatantly harboring bin Laden.

Pat Tillman was an overachiever. An undersized player who worked his ass off to be as good as he could possibly be. And one who evidentally moved enough by the tragedy of 9/11 to realize that talk is certainly cheap, and that he could make a difference. He did it with no fanfare. He refused to discuss it with the media. In fact, he never even told the media that he was joining the Rangers. He simply felt that helping to fight the REAL war on terrorism was the right thing to do. And he did something that those chickenshit chickenhawk neocons didn't have the guts to do. And that's personally fighting for his country.

Pat Tillman gave a lot to his country, more than virtually any one of us will ever do. And he gave up millions of dollars, a family, and ultimately, his life. He should be commended, not scorned.

Threads like this make us at DU look pretty bad.

Sorry for getting all 'freeperish' on all of you, but Tillman is one hell of a brave man. And he fought in an honorable war and made tough unselfish decisions that hardly anyone could even imagine making. He should be commended.

[mike_c]

15. I disagree completely about Afghanistan...

...being an "honorable war." I've never been a fan of the Taliban, but our "honorable war" in Afghanistan has destroyed any hope for a stable, national government. It has created a haven for drug production, petty warlords, and Islamist hatred of the U.S. It was a paroxym of national anger directed at the wrong target-- how many of the Afghans that we've murdered had anything to do with 9-11? How many more innocents have we killed in Afghanistan than were killed in the WTC attacks? Honorable? Hardly.

[LTR]

19. War is ugly.

The war in Afghanistan was necessary. After 9/11, we had to do it. I honestly believe it, and I despise war.

The problem is that Dubya is great at starting wars, but terrible at fighting and finishing them. The Bush Misadministration is appalling at planning for these things. Perhaps with a proper game plan, and less attention diverted toward the real 'prize' (Iraq), they could have been more effective.

The war in Afghanistan is 'honorable' in perspective to nonsense like the debacle in Iraq.

[mike_c]

20. you're suggsting that after 9-11 we had to attack SOMEONE...

...and destroy their country, kill lots of innocent people, etc., just because? Not in my name we didn't.

[DustMolecule]

18. Self-deleted

Rest in Peace Pat Tillman.

[capriccio]

21. As the freepers would say...

Mega-dittoes

[mike_c]

10. I think "idiot" is a bit unnecessary-- "chump" maybe...

...but I agree, not a hero. No amount of courage or any other virtue in the service of criminals is "heroic," IMO.

[tomorrowsashes]

11. I agree that he threw his life away

I am saddened that a young man lost his life, but I'm not as sad as I would be if he was a civillian. People sign up for the millitary to murder, and be shot at. They are full well aware that they could die. Why is it that somebody who agreed to put there life in danger gets the front page of the paper, while hundreds of innocent civillians dying as a result of war might get a small blurb a few pages in?

[LTR]

14. I think Pat Tillman will honor his country in an unintended way

He actually puts a real 'face' on the casualties and the madness of war.

Many of us only read about casualties when someone in our hometown is killed. Then it makes the local papers and newscasts. But many of us don't know these people, unfortunately. Soon, they sadly become a statistic.

Tillman's story is an intriguing one, and one that many have at least heard about. Hopefully, the sadness over his loss makes many realize the seriousness of war and its consequences.

Maybe those same people will wake up and realize that perhaps Iraq wasn't such a good idea.

[seabeyond]

12. remember the context

we are talking three years ago? two and a half. after 9/11 think how powerful that is. and then our male as he is, protector, that is powerful stuff, and some males are pumped even more with that ole testostrone than others. evidence is his profession and how well he did. i have a brother that was a middle defense dude and he was trained a certain way to play football a lot goes the same with the military.

this male has his role in our society a very valuable role and i honor that. this man was courage, and he seems truly to have integrity. i honor that. i am not going to make light of this guys sacrifice, i thank him as i thank all the soldiers.

i also havent watched him on all the news today, nor have i gone into the threads on this board. i accidently came in here, didnt know you were talking him. and i havent because his sacrifice was equal to all our soldiers, and to those that died in the towers, and to the civilians in iraq and afghanistan.

[Journeyman]

13. Here is a man who, for whatever reason. . .

chose defense of his nation -- as he perceived that value, rightly or wrongly -- over his personal goals. For reasons you have not even attempted to ascertain, for values you have chosen to disdain before you attempt to comprehend, you turn a blind eye to the potentially altruistic values that may have driven this man and see instead a "fucking idiot" because he chose his heart over the mammonism you choose to revere. You and all such shallow fools disgust me.

[bloom]

26. I don't know his reasons, either

but I was inspired to try to figure out WHY anyone would join the military these days. And yes, these days ARE different from right after 9/11. Then one might have felt defensive reasoning. NOW, I don't think so. (And no, I can't relate to their line of reasoning at all as I found expressed online).

I haven't been watching the TV coverage today, but I can just imagine. And the scary thing to me is that here is this guy, a hero to so many and a football player. Transferring that heroicism to the military and what it the result? Thousands(?), perhaps young people sucked into the military machine this country has going on right now. Millions (?) of people seeking MORE revenge. (yikes).

I was taught fairly young to question the military and not to suppose that everything our leaders did was worth following and killing others for. A lot of people don't get that. For a lot of people it is blind patriotism and there is no buffer. They believe if they join up and kill people they are doing our country a service. I happen to not think so, esp. when we have a (p)resident like Bush* who is intent on massively punishing the Iraqis we are supposed to be liberating.

I don't see it as so shallow or heartless as you do that someone is upset over the possible repercussions of this event.

[Journeyman]

28. And here you've given a reasoned, intelligent response. . .

one well in line with my own beliefs. You've also opened discussion about the possible repercussions this act may have on other, impressionable people, and the low uses BushCo may make of this man's death. The original poster, on the other hand, dismissed this man as a "fucking idiot," not for any well-founded belief or reasoned argument, but because he chose service to his country over service to Mammon, which from his shallow post ringmastery seems to hold as raison d'etre.

[Blue_Tires]

16. another confession

2 weeks after 9-11 (which happened on my 25th b-day) i also tried to enlist in the armed forces (asthma kept me out)...I've grown a little older and wiser since then, and of course i know this whole 'war on terror' was screwed from the start, but at that time, anywhere my country wanted to send me with a rifle, i would've gone...no hesitation, no regrets.

[NuttyFluffers]

17. I'm more upset by his exploitation

he was exploited in his life by this administration. and now he is exploited in his death by the media.

it sickens me, the whole thing. i lay the blame of the loss of such a person, and 100s of others, at the feet of these greedy institutions. they are the meat grinder. they have blood on their hands and they are guilty.

[Selwynn]

23. I do strongly agree with this -

I feel no hostility about his personal choice, and I mourn his death - in the exact same way that I mourn any of our men and woman who have lost their lives over there.

What does make me very angry is how the media have exploited his story. If I was the family of someone who lost their lives in Iraq, I would be very hurt, asking myself why suddenly this man's life was so much more important to the media than anyone else's life...

[No2W2004]

25. From what I've read,

Tillman would be pissed off that his death is gettin more media attention than any other soldiers. At least he didn't act like a chickehawk...he left the NFL to do what he considered the right thing.

[Selwynn]

22. He made a choice and we should respect it.

I believe there are people who enter the military for principled reasons, even some people who entered to go to Iraq. I always appreciate men and woman with the courage to stand by convictions. Also, I must say, if that is your definition of "having it all" that seems tragically lacking to me.

[Redleg]

24. Harsh. I respect Tillman and dislike what the media is going to do

with this story. You are entitled to your opinion but I have to disagree strenously with what you are saying. Tillman believed in what he was doing. He wanted to fight the war on terror. He enlisted in the Army to do so.

[Name removed]

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