Has Ted Rall gone too far

[wubbathompson]

I can agree to a certain extent, but this article kind fo disgusts me

AN ARMY OF SCUM

Or, We're Looking For a Few Good Homosexual Rapists
NEW YORK--Now it's official: American troops occupying Iraq have become virtually indistinguishable from the SS. Like the Germans during World War II, they cordon off and bomb civilian villages to retaliate for guerilla attacks on their convoys. Like the blackshirts who terrorized Europe, America's victims disappear into hellish prisons ruled by sadists and murderers. The U.S. military is short just one item to achieve moral parity with the Nazis: gas chambers.

http://www.uexpress.com/tedrall/

[quinnox]

1. I think he is part of what

some would call the "loony left". Makes the left look bad.

[DaveSZ]

2. LOL

He is way out there with that one.

:P

[ithacan]

4. did you read the entire piece?

or just the snip?

[leesa]

27. Truth hurts! Ouch!

[corporatewhore]

33. The left is not monolithic you dont own it

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1547577

[demnan]

3. Well,

only if telling the truth is going too far.

[Renew Deal]

7. It's strongly worded.

But is the sadist and murderer part incorrect? Not entirely.

[Amerpie]

5. Too broad a brush

Although I don't subscribe to the theory that all of teh bad apples in Iraq were conveniently assigned to one unit and that all of their misconduct was photographed, I also would hesitate to label a bunch of working class kids in uniform as scum.

[dsc]

6. I am so sick of hearing them called homosexual rapists

we never hear people called heterosexual rapists. In point of fact, more than a few gays have been the victims of this kind of crap, minus some of the violent stuff, thanks to straigt fellow students or coworkers.

[Tinoire]

18. They're hammering that angle in a not very subtle message about

"women and gays" in the military. Take a jaunt over to the conservative boards and that's the conclusion some not very bright people are getting from it.

[dsc]

49. Yes,they are

but what is a supposed liberal doing repeating it?

[goodhue]

8. no

but his critics have

[BlueEyedSon]

9. No. In this case, I think Rall is "right."

:)

Did you read the whole piece, or just the teaser?

[bryant69]

10. Well it's a point of view

I think he's wrong in his analysis, and I certainly think, and I'm sure he knows as well, that this will make liberals look pretty bad.

But it's his article, he has the right to write what he wants.

What get's me is the double standard; I don't see President Bush or anybody else on the right being held accountable for what Ann Coulter writes or Michael Savage says. On the other hand, you know that Republicans and their willing accomplices in the press (to quote a favorite Limbaugh phrase) are going to ask Kerry what he thinks of Ted Rall.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[drumwolf]

11. I haven't read the article...

...but I did read his latest comic strip mocking Pat Tillman.

Speaking as a proud antiwar lefty who hopes to see Bush and Cheney sharing a prison cell with Slobodan Milosevic in the Hague, that strip really kinda rubbed me the wrong way.

I've seen several people refer to Rall as the left's counterpart to Ann Coulter, and after reading the strip, I can see their point.

[sendero]

29. Maybe...

... we need a counterpart to Ann Coulter?

The fact is, there are damn near no strident voices of the left out there any more, only for the right.

I don't have to agree with everything this guy says to think that he has a point.

[corporatewhore]

12. but but they are the good guys who can do no wrong its only the arabs

and various assorted non whites who commit torture and heinous crimes

[Az]

13. I equate Rall with our version of Dennis Miller

He is so repulsed by Bush, the war, and the most recent news about the torture that he has wigged out and gone full bore attack mode. He is railing against all things Bush including things in his imagination.

[Minstrel Boy]

14. Rall didn't go too far, the United States did.

That Rall has the courage to say so distinguishes him from most other voices in the American media.

[Canadian_moderate]

15. He is too extreme in his criticism

The US military should in no way be compared to Hitler's SS. Yes, there are bad apples, but Hitler military forces never showed the restraint that American forces have from time to time. Hitler wouldn't have cared about the world's public opinion.

Sure, let's criticize Bush and the Department of Defence, but Rall is being a little too extreme, which just turns off the average American moderate.

[laura888]

16. Part of it was done just for shock value - to get you to read further:

From his piece:

<snip>
"Don't be fooled by military apologists who insist that these American SS are nothing more than a few bad apples. Seymour Hersh, who has read the army's internal report, quotes Major General Antonio Taguba as saying that U.S.-committed atrocities are "systemic, endemic throughout the command structure... were being told what to do and told it was OK."

</snip>

Doesn't this call for some yelling and screaming, as Rall is doing?

[scrotim]

17. i'm glad rall's sometimes extreme view is out there in the media mix

i don't think we can ever have too many voices in the public square.

[workforpower]

19. Not welcome here.

Your crappy cartoons were so lame. Go away. Maybe Zmag and the WSWS will welcome you. Losers love company.

[bryant69]

20. Good reasoned argument

Yep, it's so clear.

Actually I've read more than one Ted Rall Cartoon I thought was pretty funny.

[bicentennial_baby]

21. Nope

Ted Rall may say things that people don't want to hear, but that does'nt mean he's wrong. Having spent a great deal of time in war zones, I think he's pretty well qualified to speak on such matters.

[w4rma]

22. Nope. He directs his ire upwards towards the leadership, not at the

soldiers, themselves.

Abu Ghraib, you can bet your bottom dollar, is merely the tip of the iceberg. Our military is structurally corrupt. Beginning in Afghanistan during the weeks after 9/11, civilian command yielded to the amoral gangster mentality of the arrogant intelligence officers of Army Special Forces and the CIA, who stand accused of massacring thousands of captured Taliban prisoners yet have never faced a real investigation. The new tone of lawlessness comes all the way from the White House, directed by a commander-in-chief who starts illegal wars without justification, strips captured prisoners of their rights under the Geneva Convention and whose smirky fingers-crossed response to the prisoner abuse scandal--"I shared a deep disgust that those prisoners were treated the way they were treated...Their treatment does not reflect the nature of the American people"--sends a wink and a nudge to our uniformed torturers. Keep it up, boys. Keep those broomsticks busy.

[corporatewhore]

24. unlike bush Rall spent sometime Afghanistan to report

he has a great book out

[MargotMacomber]

38. Ralls could at least get his facts straight

Beginning in Afghanistan during the weeks after 9/11, civilian command yielded to the amoral gangster mentality of the arrogant intelligence officers of Army Special Forces and the CIA, who stand accused of massacring thousands of captured Taliban prisoners yet have never faced a real investigation.

I'd feel better about him "going too far" if he were correct in what he's saying. Special Forces doesn't have intelligence officers. Furthermore, given the limited number of SF soldiers in Afghanistan they would have been shooting people 'round the clock to have managed a massacre of thousands.

[bicentennial_baby]

39. Were you there?

Because Ted Rall was...If your're interested, you should read his excellent book "To Afghanistan and Back", in which he recounts his experiences on the ground in Afghanistan during our invasion and bombardment.

[MargotMacomber]

40. Not all reports are true

No I was not in Afghanistan. However, as we are seeing in the hearings right now, not everything coming out of a war zone is 100% fact. Simply because one is a reporter rather than a soldier that doesn't make his or her word golden when compared to someone elses. What I do know and perhaps Mr Ralls does not is SF structure.

The Hunt for Bin Laden by Robin Moore is generally regarded as bunk by many even though Mr. Moore is a respected writer. His source for much of the book,however, is a known criminal and liar. Who knows if the smae is true for Mr Rall's book. God Forbid he was taken in by the same source as Mr Moore.

[jeanmarc]

23. Not too far, accurate

Our army is an army of scum. That's the perception to the world now. And until some firings and resignations take place, until we come up with a real solution for Iraq, we will continue to be viewed as an army of scum. Hearts and minds is over. That's what you get when the military is put in this spot.

I don't blame the soldiers as in a broad stroke. I blame their higher ups, I blame this President and Rumsfeld. They never bothered to listen to the military leadership and put our military in this mess. When they received the real numbers of troops we needed, they fired the message bearers and hired some lackey yesmen. GitMo made for an extremely permissive and unregulated means for treating prisoners of war.

Everything is the President and Rumsfeld's fault. I won't accept any other explanation.

[corporatewhore]

25. The Left is Not monolithic!!!! dont say hes hurting the left

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1547577

[UTUSN]

26. Are Only LIMBO & HANNITY Allowed to Go "Too Far" with Free Speech? n/t

[laura888]

28. Rall is tame compared to those guys. What the other side is saying:

From Hannity:

<snip>
HANNITY: So in other words, this is not a big deal? What should the punishment be if these guys in fact are found guilty of whatever is going on over there, whatever is going on?

ROBINSON: Well, it's not torture. If it was, they'd be accused of torture. They're accused of maltreatment. I'm not making excuses for them.
</snip>

and from Limbaugh:
<snip>
LIMBAUGH: Exactly. Exactly my point! This is no different than what happens at the Skull and Bones initiation and we're going to ruin people's lives over it and we're going to hamper our military effort, and then we are going to really hammer them because they had a good time. You know, these people are being fired at every day. I'm talking about people having a good time, these people, you ever heard of emotional release? You of heard of need to blow some steam off?
</snip>

more here: http://mediamatters.org/items/200405050003

[Az]

30. Its a question of why you are what you are

Are you a liberal (assuming here) because you want to be a liberal? Or are you a liberal because you believe it is the right thing to be?

It is arguable that Rush and Hannity are conservative because they want to enrich themselves at the expense of others. Thus anything is permissible for them in the pursuit of their goal.

If the reason for being liberal is because it is the right thing then it is tactically inadvisable to tarnish yourself by utilizing lies and manipulation to get what you want. This does not mean you must be quiet and submissive. It just means you can't go off and spew any old thing you feel like saying.

[corporatewhore]

32. look rall has an opinion and it is valid the left is not monolithic

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1547577

[leftofthedial]

31. sadly, no, he hasn't

The US has become the Germans in Poland

It started with Reagan and has begun to flower with the bushgang. The neocon movement has made positive Orwellian virtues of three falsehoods:

Might is right
The end justifies the means
Greed is good

The three underpinnings of fascism. The "Murkan" scum in those photos are representative of an entire generation of Limbaugh-infected, amoral, brainwashed "good little Germans."

We feign shock that our fellow citizens could be so utterly depraved, but they have been well trained---by the Murkan culture, not by the military---not to think for themselves, to devalue non-"Murkan" cultures and people, and to reflexively believe the above three tenets of neoconservative neoGOP thought.

A rotten tree bears rotten fruit. Our nation is sliding into fascism. The invasion and occupation were and are illegal, immoral and unjustifiable. It is not just torture in prisons. EVERY act we commit in Iraq is another rape.

[Insider]

34. excellent assessment, leftofthedial

and no, ted rall has not gone too far in my opinion.

[corporatewhore]

35. i agree totally i believe that the abu ghraib mentality is already here

my mentor was humiliated stripped labelled a terrorist joked at felt up and had her belongings in her luggage torn apart by airport security at age 60 just because she happens to be palestinian american

[leftofthedial]

41. wow. deadly graphic

no pun intended.

[Aidoneus]

36. What he refers to should disgust you more

I'd say he should stay his course and not water himself down.

If the rabid dogs howl at the thought of him, maybe he's on the right track.

[Bridget Burke]

37. What do you mean by "too far"?

"Too far" as in--"I really don't agree with him on this."

or "Too far" as in--"He ought to be stifled."

I'd tend toward the first statement. If he's wrong--that's his right.

[RBHam]

42. IMHO, Ted Rall is a TRUE American...

Speaking truth to power and making people confront the disturbing truth about themselves.

[Chomskyite]

43. I think he's our Ann Coulter

He oversimplifies. He makes inflammatory comparisons. He picks fights that shouldn't be picked. He's not particularly funny or clever.

People on the right kept wanting to equate Michael Moore or Al Franken to Ann Coulter, but no. They'd be too squeamish to write or say anything like "Pat Tillman was a moron" or "American troops have become Nazis."

[RBHam]

45. Pat Tillman was lied to, 9-11 was a BFEE black op

And the American troops are acting exactly like the invading Nazis did. Torture for the sake of intimidation and collective punishment against any resistance to the occupation.

It's the truth, Ted Rall simply points it out.

You ignore him and ridicule him at your own eventual peril.

[hasbro]

44. I agree with Rall on alot of policy, BUT...

I think he's a total asshole.

The way he characterizes Tillman who could have been many things, including a racist, but never said a word to anyone about what drove him. And using invective like "inbred," yeah rubbing the wrong way.

[Moloch]

46. He is quickly becoming the Ann Coulter of the left..

This article and the Pat Tillman cartoon do nothing to advance the anti-war cause.

[JackDragna]

47. That was a brilliant cartoon..

..and I'm glad Rall published it. Supporting the troops should not have to include lauding those who kill people in foreign lands under false pretenses. I cannot vouch for Pat Tillman's state of mind, but I seriously question the good sense of anyone who joined the military with the expectation that shooting at Afghanis or Iraqis was going to make the world safer somehow. Tillman signed up to shoot people for pay, a dangerous job, and got shot as a result. He sure as hell isn't a hero and neither are most of the troops over there.

[ShaneGR]

48. Basically he's just a Coulter/Hannity of the left

He says really crazy things to get everyones attention and hopefulyl make a lot of money. Nothing more, nothing less

[RetroLounge]

50. "Has Ted Rall gone too far"

Why? Are you disturbed by it?

Good. Wake the fuck up. You should be.

RL