Coup: Folks, the next few weeks may well be the most dangerous...

[Junkdrawer]

since the Cuban Missile Crisis.

There's a coup going on in the Pentagon. According to Sy Hersh, there's a large group of "high level generals and old-time CIA types" that are pissed purple (my words) with the direction Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz et al are taking this country. So they are leaking. And not just your usual "damning studies" that Pentagon types usually leak when they're in a snit. No, they're leaking the good stuff. And it's escalating. And if Rummy et al have done one tenth the things we suspect they've done, well, let's just say it could get extremely interesting....

So, what can Rummy et al do to stop it? Well...

1.) I'm sure there's a "plumbers" type group set up to stop the leaks. But it may be too late. I'll bet a lot of the documents are already in hands with instructions as to if and when to leak.

2.) They can provoke a national security crisis. Invading the mosques in Najaf, bombing reactors in Iran, bombing weapons sites in North Korea all come to mind.

3.) They can let down the guard and give the terrorists (another??) unguarded shot on goal.

4.) They can wag the dog themselves with a fake terror attack. Dirty bombs would be perfect for this (lots of fear, little death).

Keep an eye to events and remember the old Chinese curse: "may you live in interesting times".

[Unknown Known]

1. Repukes are hanging themselves while the Pentagon slowly LEAKS

By the time this is over - it may very well be the end of the repuke party - if they don't blow us all up.

[Newsjock]

2. L.A. Times was spreading the dirty bomb meme just today

And such a story wouldn't be in the Sunday Los Angeles Times unless someone wanted it there.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-dirtybomb9may09,1,3417461.story?coll=la-home-headlines

Threat of 'Dirty Bomb' Growing, Officials Say
Radioactive material is common and often not secured. Al Qaeda is said to be planning an attack.

By Douglas Frantz, Times Staff Writer

VIENNA — Concerns are growing that Al Qaeda or a related group could detonate a "dirty bomb" that would spew radioactive fallout across an American or European city, according to intelligence analysts, diplomats and independent nuclear experts.

Although safeguards protecting nuclear weapons and their components have improved, experts said the radioactive materials that wrap around conventional explosives to create a contaminating bomb remained available worldwide — and were often stored in non-secure locations.    
   
Detonating a dirty bomb would not cause the death and devastation wrought by a nuclear weapon, but officials and counter-terrorism experts predicted that it would result in some fatalities, radiation sickness, mass panic and enormous economic damage.

Intelligence agencies have reported no reliable, specific threats involving dirty bombs or nuclear weapons, but senior U.S. and European officials and outside experts said several factors had heightened fears in recent weeks.

more
Several factors. Let's see... prisoner photos, military deaths, inflation, etc.

[Junkdrawer]

6. That and Najaf are my top worries...

Iranian reactors are also in play. When the mainstream press starts talking about the Military Intelligence types and the private contractors in Abu Ghraib, I think Rumsfeld will act.

[ikojo]

3. My advice......

Once things are leaked (a la Taguba) SAVE THEM TO YOUR HARD DRIVES!!!

[libhill]

4. I`d place my bets on-

2 or 4, or a combination of both. But I don`t think that they don`t have the kahunas to strike N. Korea, they could fight back.

[spotbird]

5. Do you have a Sy Hersh link?

It is a little surprising is that there are any left that are loyal to the country. Rumsfeld orchestrated a pretty large purge of the patriotic in the last few years.

[Junkdrawer]

10. Have I got Sy Hersh links....

Here's the Diane Rehm interview where he talks of the "high level Pentagon and CIA types" - about 20-25 minutes in... (ON EDIT: 27 minutes in)
http://www.wamu.org/ram/2004/r1040504.ram

Here's the first New Yorker piece (TORTURE AT ABU GHRAIB):
http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content /

Here's the followup(Chain of Command):
http://newyorker.com/fact/content/?040517fa_fact2

Here's todays CNN Interview:
http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0405/09/le.00.html

[hang a left]

23. May I ask a favor of you Mr. Drawer.

I can not get the link to work (the first one).

Can you please post the part you speak of from the interview.

Thanks

[Junkdrawer]

34. Sy talks very fast and I'm not good at transcription...

...There are high ranking officers in the Pentagon and CIA who, though loyal (to a point), are upset with the new direction Rumsfeld set. ... Assassination and torture were never part of their game. Rumsfeld changed everything top down...They refused, but were asked to contract with Murder Incorporated.

It's a Real streaming feed. You really should hear it for your self.

[hang a left]

36. Thanks.

I thought maybe there was a transcript. Stupid me.

:-)

[Junkdrawer]

37. PS: All this was in response to how he got the Taguba Report...

arguably the most damaging leak in the last, what, 20 years?

[KittyWampus]

7. The White Hats Have The Upper Hand

there is no doubt in my mind.

You are right though, Junior and his miscreants are in denial and will try to hang on.

[Poiuyt]

8. Don't forget Valerie Plame and the CIA

It's been discussed here many times how the CIA might want to get back at the bush administration for outing Plame. Maybe this is part of that.

[LuLu550]

9. I was speaking with a friend whose brother works in the Pentagon

"right of center" 20 year bureaucrat, just a couple levels down from the appointees. He said he brother and all his friends are just hunker down and trying to get Bush out. He doesn't listen to anyone who is not an appointee - those in the know what Bush gone. Might b where all the leaks are coming from....guys like my friend's brother....

[Ladyhawk]

11. Can you give us a link to Sy Hersh's article?

Is it "Hersh" or "Hersch"?

[Junkdrawer]

12. See post #10 n/t

[maggrwaggr]

13. I wouldn't rule out an Iranian incursion into Iraq

which would give Bushco an excuse to declare war on Iran and nuke them.

[LunaC]

14. You may be on to something......

If they need an excuse, this may be it....

N. Korea selling big missile in Mideast

PYONGYANG, North Korea, May 7 (UPI) -- North Korea has
begun marketing its Taepo Dong-2 long-range missile to Middle
East clients, the Middle East Newsline reported Friday.

The most likely client to purchase the Taepong-2 is Iran,
intelligence sources report.

Teheran has been negotiating with Pyongyang for the Taepo
Dong-2 as Iran's first intercontinental ballistic missile as well as
a space launcher.

"Iran wants an ICBM and China and North Korea are already
helping in the development of engines," a senior intelligence
source said. "North Korea could eventually reach a deal to sell
the Taepo Dong-2 to Iran."

http://interestalert.com/brand/siteia.shtml?Story=st/sn/05070000aaa01907.upi&Sys=siteia&Fid=FRONTPAG&Type=News&Filter=Front%20Page

[spotbird]

15. The plan was to go into Iran all along.

But Iran isn't going to be stupid enough to give them a reason, at least not prior to the election.

On 9/11 I remember telling a friend who thought the attack was from Iraq that Saddam was evil but not stupid, he didn't do it. The Iranians aren't stupid either so they must be set up, but I doubt that is in the cards before the next "election" here.

If Chimp manages to maintain power then an Iranian invasion is inevitable.

[Junkdrawer]

16. Remember this from Will Pitt (Najaf)...

....
Najaf is the site of the tomb of Ali, the most important Shi'ite saint. It is a holy city, like Mecca and Medina, and is the symbolic capital for Shi'ites all around the world. If American forces attack Najaf, every Shi'ite on the planet will have a dog in the fight. Iran, a Shi'ite-controlled nation, will surely become involved. Shi'ite religious leaders will issue fatwas demanding massive numbers of suicide attacks against Americans.
...
Simultaneously, American forces attack Najaf, a holy city central to the spiritual lives of millions of Shi'ites around the world. An explosion of rage will engulf the Middle East. Iran, which has something resembling a real army, could very well drive across the border to engage American forces that are already stretched. This war, already a ridiculous mess, will become an unmitigated catastrophe.
....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1470744

[spotbird]

19. There are countless scenerios for unmitigated catastrophe.

Sadly, many are probable. There is also a strong argument to be made that this administration will do anything to provoke an expansion before the election, and ideally (from the administrations perspective) another homeland attack that would rival Pearl Harpor.

Where we disagree is that I think it won't be state-sponsored. Unlessthe state is certain it will be invaded otherwise. There won't be anymore that wait either, fool me once and all that.

Chimps goal may really be Armageddon.

[yardwork]

35. Do we think that BushCo is smart enough to understand

about Najaf? Except in the area of torture, they've been singularly clueless about the culture and customs of the country we invaded and now occupy.

Unless their actions have been deliberately provocative, NOT to win the hearts and minds of Iraqis but to turn them against us in a huge conflagration.....

[maggrwaggr]

45. yes, your first statement assumes they want peace.

They want chaos, not peace. They thrive on chaos.

[maggrwaggr]

44. The Iranians don't actually have to do anything, Bush can fabricate it

like he's fabricated everything else.

[randr]

17. I, for the first time in my life, can see a positive side

to a military coup.
Will the defenders of our great nation see the threat this administration poses and react in the interest of the democracy?
Can they arrest Rummy etal and hold them for military trial?

[Cleita]

22. Ugh, being from South America, coups do get rid of Bushista

types, but then you are stuck with the liberators, who aren't much better. Killing doesn't solve a whole lot of problems. I would rather our pols got a spine and used the Constitution to get rid of Bush. He shouldn't just get voted out. He and his cabal need to go on trial.

[Junkdrawer]

26. Well, so far the tactics are to "leak the dirty laundry". I don't think..

tanks coming down Pennsylvania Avenue is in the cards. But then who could have guessed they would have leaked what they did?

[spotbird]

30. Rummy cleared out the upper ranks rather throughly.

or at least he thinks so, let's hope he's wrong.

It would be ironic if the military saves democracy.

[Junkdrawer]

40. Well, there's a whole lot of bodies buried and someone is...

saying "Dig Here"

[seattlesteph]

18. Clark said this would happen.

If you remember early in his pre-campaign days, he mentioned Pentagon officials were pissed off that they were being told to manage Afghanistan and then divert resources to Iraq. And they were incredibly mad because soldiers were being used for policing - not their job.

Plus, there is no respect for Wolfowitz and Rumsfeld.

This could get really messy.

[Junkdrawer]

20. The "not their job" part probably explains some of the Private Contractor.

(read mercenary) stuff.

[Beam Me Up]

21. Are we READY, People?

I'm telling you all: The neoconservative cabal that stole the election of 2000 and paved the way for the atrocities of 9/11--and have used them ever sense to advance their fascist domestic and foreign agenda WILL NOT GO PEACEFULLY. We all know that the ONLY way they can possibly 'win' the 2004 election is through subverting the electoral system. That is their plan. Denied it they become EXTREMELY dangerous.

I'm saying in another thread that WE HAD BETTER GET READY.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1557381
There may come a time in the very near future where OUR DIRECT ACTION may be needed to help correct the course of the ship of state.

I think it is going to be a BUMPY year.

[Valerie5555]

25. Or the Highjacked Airliner of State

"Squawk 7500 anyone???????????" "Let's Roll anyone????????????"

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Beam Me Up]

29. Perhaps if you would follow the link and read the thread

you'd find the answer to your question.

I assure you, assault weapons are not in the program.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Cleita]

28. There are many threads on this site you might find interesting

and informative. This has been discussed a lot so there is a lot of evidence posted, but not repeated in this particular thread.

[Junkdrawer]

31. Well, the "coup" part is my characterization of leaking the kind of....

dirty laundry we've seen the last few weeks. The source of the leak and the displeasure at the Pentagon comes from the first link in post number 10. And the "more/worse" leaks to come warnings from the likes of Lindsey Graham is where I get the "escalation" part.

[Beam Me Up]

32. Israelis planning a preemptive strike against Iraq?

I have no idea how reputable "Middle East Newsline" is. However, given that OUR COUNTRY has initiated PREEMPTIVE WAR against a country in the M.E. that, apparently, posed far less threat to us that Iran could to Israel, I see no reason to discount it:

QUIETLY, U.S. PREPARES FOR ISRAEL STRIKE ON IRAN
http://menewsline.com/stories/2004/may/05_07_2.html

WASHINGTON -- The United States has been examining the prospect that Israel will attack Iranian nuclear facilities in an attempt to prevent the Islamic republic from completing an atomic bomb as early as this year.

U.S. analysts and government sources said the Bush administration has discussed the prospect of an Israeli air strike at several levels of government. They said the issue has been examined in terms of the diplomatic, military and security implications for the United States, particularly its military presence in Iraq and the Persian Gulf region.

The issue of Iran's nuclear weapons program was discussed by President George Bush and Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon during the latter's visit to the White House on April 14. The sources said the two men were alone during the brief discussion in an effort by the president to gauge a likely Israeli response to the completion of an Iranian nuclear bomb.

"It would be intolerable for the Middle East if they get a nuclear weapon," Bush said after meeting Sharon.
-----------------------------------------------
NOTE: The above is not the full item.

This service contains only a small portion of the information produced daily by Middle East Newsline. For a subscription to the full service, please contact Middle East Newsline at:
[e-mail] for further details.

[Junkdrawer]

42. s/b "against Iran", but there are many reports of this coming...

That and Najaf are double provocations against Iran.

[mmonk]

33. If it takes someone high in the military

to restore or provide checks and balances for our democracy's survival, then so be it. Can't seem to get it from members of congress.

[indigobusiness]

38. Heads Must Roll & Bush Must Go...

There are some serious skeletons in this closet...but enough has been seen to IMPEACH BUSH.

Buy a Cap. Show your Patriotism.



http://www.cafeshops.com/indigobusiness

[leesa]

39. We've already had the coup. Happened in 2000.

The Bush Crime Family will most certainly attack America again though.

[indigobusiness]

41. good point

It's time the coup flew the coop.

[Beam Me Up]

43. "COUNTER-COUP," I believe, is the correct term in this case.

Hopefully it will be BLOODLESS. And, HOPEFULLY, it will set the stage for a Kerry presidency.

[Name removed]

46. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Junkdrawer]

47. If you're talking "violent overthrow", not me...

if you're talking "expose the bastards", I'm in.

[Failure]

49. whatever it takes to save our country and the world from the evildoers

in the white house.



failure.

[Junkdrawer]

52. I pray peaceful means will do it...

if it comes to violence, I think they have us a tad out gunned...

[Failure]

55. But we have them outnumbered...and BTW, I hope peace will

prevail...I also hope the american people will wake up and get their consciences back.

failure

[Bandit]

57. I also swore an oath "Against ALL Enemies both Foreign and DOMESTIC"

:shrug: If the time comes I will be there.

[Failure]

63. I'm ready. <nt>

[tom_paine]

48. God Bless those True Patriots and Real Patriots!

May their efforts to Stand and Be True meet with success.

[Norquist Nemesis]

50. The problem with the anger is

the it's directed and Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz who are doing the bidding the the Bush administration. I'm not in any way defending the bastards; I hope they can leak some good stuff that proves without any question that all of this is DIRECTLY linked to Bush and Cheney et al.

In other words...Watergate redeaux

[maggrwaggr]

54. Yes. Here is how the president is responsible.

Here's what I wrote him:

Dear Mr. Bush:

Not only is your administration administration responsible for the torture at Abu Ghraib, but the media is as well.

How?

The media has permitted you to spread your lies about linking Iraq to 9/11. The fact that most Americans believe that Iraq had something to do with 9/11 speaks volumes as to the media's FAILURE about getting the truth out.

They have failed to point out your lies.

Furthermore, every time they use the term "The President's War on Terror" with regards to the invasion of Iraq, they further spread the lie.

They are as bad as you are.

Not only that, but the media letsyour administration, and the generals in Iraq use the term "terrorists" to describe anybody who isn't on our side.

This goes back to YOU, who announced "you are either with us or against us".

To many Americans, and to many soldiers, all Iraqis are "terrorists".

Thanks to you, there is more hatred in the world than ever before.

You have made it clear that "terrorists" have no rights as human beings.

And who is a terrorist? Anybody who is not "with us".

We even passed laws to that effect. They are not POW's, they are "enemy combatants" who can be held as long as we want to hold them, in dog kennels in Cuba.

The soldiers know this. They've been told this. By the generals under your command.

The fish rots from the head. Who is at the head? You are, sir. George Bush. And you stink.

And you should look in the mirror if you want to know why so many Americans think it's okay to abuse Iraqis.

This entire country, and especially its mainstream media, should be fully ashamed of itself.

[Norquist Nemesis]

59. Good letter but be sure and watch for the white van

outside your door. You might want to protect yourself and send a copy to several national news outlets and editors. ;)

[HamdenRice]

51. Spot on

analysis -- but as I've written elsewhere, this could also be a good opportunity to build a tactical consensus with the sensible elements in the military.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=1569535&mesg_id=1569835

[mrgorth]

53. I'll believe it when I see it.

[robertpaulsen]

56. If Perle and Frum still have Bush's ear, anything is possible.

Personally, I think they'll keep up their "plumbers" op until right before the election, unless things really spiral out of control. If it does, they could choose any one of your options and more. Richard Perle and David Frum wrote a book "An End to Evil: How to Win the War on Terror". I haven't read it yet, but they ask "for the United States to overthrow the government of Iran, abandon support of a Palestinian state, blockade North Korea, use strong-arm tactics with Syria and China, disregard much of Europe as allies, and sever ties with Saudi Arabia". Interesting times indeed.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1400061946/ref=ase_commondreams-20/103-9838607-0408644

[blm]

58. No doubt, Junkdrawer.

There have been high-level brass turning on BushInc for a few years now.

We heard about John O'Neill, Rand Beers and Joe Wilson and Richard Clarke, but we haven't heard about the military brass who told John Kerry about what really happened at Tora Bora when Bush and Rumsfeld were trying to keep it secret.

I always thought that one incident provided a great clue that not all the military were in step with BushInc.

[NNN0LHI]

60. Novak says kind of the same thing

http://www.suntimes.com/output/novak/cst-edt-novak10.html

Few friends rush to aid Rumsfeld

<snip>Rumsfeld is paying the price for the way he has run the Department of Defense for more than three years, but the price is also being paid by George W. Bush. From the first months of the Bush administration, I have heard complaints by old military hands that the new secretary's arrogance and insularity were creating a dysfunctional Pentagon. That climate not only limits the government's ability to deal with the prisoner scandal but also may have been its cause.

Rumsfeld is a man of extraordinary talents. When I first covered him almost 40 years ago, he was a House member from Chicago's North Shore whose future seemed limitless. But he alienated the party's Old Guard leadership, the reason he left Congress in 1969 to head the Nixon administration's poverty program.

The Rumsfeld style was apparent when he was still in his 30s and President Richard Nixon named him ambassador to NATO. On his first day in Brussels, Belgium, he publicly humiliated a young briefing officer with a barrage of questions he was not prepared to answer. It was a management technique that he perfected in high federal office and as a successful corporate CEO.

In 2001, a few months after Rumsfeld was brought back for a second hitch at the Pentagon, an old friend of his gave me a disturbing report. A former senior government official who was now a defense industry consultant, he told me Rumsfeld was a disaster waiting to happen. Rumsfeld, insulated by his inner circle, was at war against the uniformed military, the civilian bureaucracy, and both houses of Congress.

This same former official last week told me the Iraqi prisoners fiasco was the inevitable outgrowth of Rumsfeld's management style. ''If it had not happened with this,'' he told me, ''there would have been a different disaster.''

more

[Junkdrawer]

62. It's becoming real clear it's Rumsfeld vs The Pentagon...

the only question now is whether The Pentagon is a united front or a motley mixture of vastly different grudges.

[Junkdrawer]

61. Two more points:

First, I'd like to add another option to "what can Rummy et al do to stop it?", and that is "Purge". Coups invite purges and, from what I've read on other threads, Ruummy has been purging the military from the first day he got there. Expect for it to escalate.

Second, the desperate options only occur if the truth makes it mainstream. It's maddening to read conclusive proof that Rummy et al are directly responsible for all this and then see the "it's only a few bad apples" line being promoted by most of the mainstream press, but that's where we're at.