Am I a racist?

[rhino47]

I was at the post office where I was doing my package mailing.I do th is at a different post office from where I get my mail(my post office is also a feed mill and it`s hard for them to handle more then a few packages at once due to space).
I had in my checkbook my mail.I had just received a thank you letter from the naacp for a donation.The person behind me was a middle aged African American woman.She saw me being white having a naacp letter.I guess this really offended her.She asker me what business I had getting mail from them.To which I calmly replied that I donate to naacp because I believe in them.She was sarcastic and said "Well isnt that sweet.Hidden racists like you can buy your guilt away"I was somewhat aghast.I still rather calm told her that I believed that
this country had a long way to go in race relations.That the advancement of all people is everyones responsibility and moral obligation.I guess this really pissed her off and she started ranting to the effect that my pompous white ass just really felt that the African Americans (though she used the N word) were just too stupid to help themselves and I felt as a superior white that their advancement could only come with the help from white middle classed people like me.
White liberal guilt ? I really dont think so .I feel that all persons in this country should be afforded the same rights and access to advancement no matter what the race,religion,or sexual orientation.Her statements really have shaken me.Made me question my motives for donating,volunteering for gay rights activities when Im not gay,for African American causes Im not black.

[bigbillhaywood]

1. Yes you are! And a goddamn right-winger freeper! Just kidding.

[rhino47]

2. lol Thanks for making me smile

[JohnLocke]

3. You should have told her that it's none of her business.

[rhino47]

8. You are probly correct.

However she felt very strongly about the issue.When confronted with a persons passion wether I agree with it or not I feel its only right that I at least aknowledge it.

[tritsofme]

4. You're not racist,

You're just a good person.

I would have filed a complaint, I wouldn't have a federal employee, regardless of color, verbally abuse me in that manner.

[playahata1]

24. Mega-bitch wasn't a Federal employee,

She was just another customer, like Pinto.

To Pinto: I am black. However, not only is Sisterfriend WRONG, she is LOUD and WRONG. And WEAK.

While there are black endeavors that have succeeded and survived and thrived with little or no help from whites, the truth is that the majority of black institutions in this country NEVER would have gotten off the ground, let alone would have survived to this day, without at least some assistance from whites.

Take the goddamned Underground Railroad, if you will, for example. How about the majority of HBCU's (Historically Black Colleges and Universities)? Do you think recently freed ex-slaves after the Civil War had the money to donate towards the establishment and sustenance of schools such as Fisk, Morehouse, Spelman, Atlanta University, Morgan State, Florida A&M and Howard? Hell, no! And the few free blacks with money -- let alone wealth -- sure as hell weren't forthcoming with funds. While some white benefactors no doubt had/have acted in a patronizing manner towards blacks -- under the assumption that blacks were (intellectually, financially, morally, name your adverb) incapable of going it alone -- there are/were whites who helped out simply because IT WAS/IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO. I see NOTHING patronizing or condescending about this.

My mother always taught me to get my love wherever I can find it. In my experience, I have found that color doesn't mean a damn thing when it comes to my well-being -- personally and professionally. I have benefitted from the generosity and the services and the expertise of people of all races. The woman who directed my master's thesis and doctoral dissertation and hooded me when it was all over is Latina (and lesbian). Most of my Communications/Liberal Arts colleagues at the community college at which I teach are white -- and they have helped me in more ways than one, especially once I was diagnosed with cervical cancer this past winter. Hell, my team of oncologists is white, Latino, and Asian -- AND THEY ARE DAMN GOOD! They are the same team that treated my late great-aunt's (Peace be upon you, Evelyn -- we miss you!) cancer until they could do no more for her. And her daughters -- my cousins -- they have had nothing but good things to say about them.

Fuck Mega-bitch and her ilk. While black people should be and are taking responsibility for themselves and their destiny in America, most white people are NOT "out to get" black people, period. Peace.

[tritsofme]

25. oops...my bad...nt

[iconoclastic cat]

78. Good luck, playahata!

Kick that cancer's butt! We're sending good thoughts....

[playahata1]

135. Thanks.

Began my sixth -- and hopefully last -- cycle of chemo today.

[NJ Blue Collar]

156. Wow!

Awesome post.

[xultar]

5. nope, she was being an effin asshole

lets get this straight if the naacp depended totally on black folk they wouldda folded way back in the day.

[wellst0nev0ter]

6. That's Funny

It's the "white liberal guilt" that helped found the NAACP in the first place. Jackasses come in all shapes and colors, and if that woman think she and her ilk can actuate change without the help of at least some white people, then they can live in their dead-end fantasy world for all I care.

[noiretextatique]

149. it was not "white liberal guilt" that helped found the NAACP

guilt is SELF-SERVING, folks...it does NOTHING for anyone, except the person who feels guilty.
what the original founders and supporters of the NAACP were motivated by...who knows. but i certainly believe it had a little something to do with equality and social justice...those are values. they aren't self-serving feelings.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

7. It could be argued that everyone is a racist to some degree.

But based on the information you've provided, I don't know whether I'd label you as such. But the woman you met -- she's definitely a racist.

[Cheswick2.0]

47. there is no such thing as racism against white people

she may be angry and perhaps a bigot, but she can't be a racist.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

52. You're not the only one to feel that way

but that doesn't make your nonsensical statement any more true.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

64. Actually there is a distinction between racism and bigotry

Racism is believing your race is superior whereas bigotry is basing your opinions of a race on generalizations and prejudice.

The woman in the post office demonstrated prejudice.

For most white people to experience racism, they would have to move to Japan since it is deeply engrained in THEIR culture that they are superior to us.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

65. You are splitting hairs that I prefer to remain whole.

And I don't buy the argument that institutionalized racism is the only form of racism.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

66. Look up the definition of racism. Calling things accurately is not hair

splitting...it is using language that accurately reflects the condition being described and is necessary if one is to think critically or think at all.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

69. That's easy enough, but it doesn't bolster your argument.

Main Entry: rac·ism
Pronunciation: 'rA-"si-z&m also -"shi-
Function: noun
1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
2 : racial prejudice or discrimination
- rac·ist /-sist also -shist/ noun or adjective
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=racism

I submit that the woman in question did exhibit 'racial prejudice'.

I might also point out that nothing in the definition of racism supports the idea that "there is no such thing as racism against white people" which is the statement with which I was taking issue.

[meow2u3]

54. Under which rock did you pull up that idiocy?

There is such a thing as racism against whites. A racist is a racist, no matter who the racist is.

[Cheswick2.0]

91. you clearlty have no idea what you are talking about

Please go back to Liberal 101 and take a few sociology courses. I am sick to death of ignorance on the left. How the hell are we supposed to fight ignorance on the right when some of us have bought their worst arguments?

[LoZoccolo]

133. Thanks for making your idea clear to us...

...instead of using it as an opportunity to pull a liberaler-than-thou and brag that you've taken a sociology course too. I think it's our cooperation ethic here that truly makes this a great forum. Hope you get a four-point this semester! :hi:

[Terran]

137. There IS Black racism toward whites, clearly...

...but IMO it is all in *reaction* to white racism toward Blacks. White racism is irrational; Black racism has a clear source. There is that difference between the two.

[tom_paine]

73. That is an old semantic dodge and I cannot allow it to pass

Nonsense.

Now my reasons:

1) We've done this before, so here's the condensed version

2) Read the dictionary definition of racism. Nowhere in there does it mention qualifiers for who can be racist or not.

3) "A doctrine of racial supremacy" is equally able to be applied by the race that is currently on the "bottom", so to speak.

That sentiment is a dodge and a copout.

If I am going to call Right-Wingers on their bullshit directly, can I do any less when someone on my side says something equally as ridiculous and untrue?

[Cheswick2.0]

92. sorry bub, you aree plain wrong

first of all there is no such thing as race. The word racism is only kept around at this point to discribe an institutional and societal problem which involves the subjegation of dark people by light people. White people who claim to experience the victimization of racism are pathetic.

[texastoast]

101. No races?

How about breed? Homo sapiens breeds?

[Runcible Spoon]

144. ethnicities...homo sapien ethnicities....

nt

[texastoast]

150. So . . . I'm ethnic now

Hypothetical here.

I'm a pale tan color, but I've been growing up with the Bushmen in Africa since birth, who are all a deep shade of brown.

So, I'm a homo sapiens and the Bushmen are homo sapiens. Culturally, religously, nationally, and environmentally, we have grown up ethnically the same. What about our skin color? Our genetic differences?

I'm finding "ethnic" defined as follows:

1. Of or pertaining to a religious, racial, national, or cultural group. 2. (how arrogant) Pertaining to a people not Christian or Jewish; heathen.

[Runcible Spoon]

154. you are whatever you say you are

that's the beauty of reflexive terminology. Though as an anthropologist I am loathe to rely on Webster's as the Gospel for satisfactory definitions regarding anything as complex as "race" and ethnicity, I think definition one is encompassing enough for this discourse. Definition two is deplorable. So what is your point again?

[texastoast]

158. How do you account for

The sickle cell anemia gene being absent in "pure" caucasian homo sapiens and the near total lack of osteoporotic bone loss in "pure" negroid homo sapiens females and a general lack of a double eyelid in mongoloid homo sapiens? How do you classify those genetic generalities if not "breed" or "race"?

[Runcible Spoon]

159. GASP! you've FOUND "pure" caucasians and negroids??

WHERE?? point me in the direction and I've found my dissertation topic. Ahh, yes one example of a genetically linked trait now suffices as a concrete classification scheme for "races". So we are cherrypicking what genetic traits constitute a race now? Considering only 8% of US African Americans carry sickle cell anemia gene, I would be loathe to label that a "genetic generality". BTW 1 in 500 in the US pop. carry sickle cell anemia gene. So I guess those who are not "pure" (whatever the hell that means anyway) have no "race" and are thus no identity. How sad.

PS. google "pure negroid" and you come up with some pretty scary stuff, christianparty.net for example!

/sarcasm on/off where applicable

[texastoast]

161. That is not my point at all

Of course, there is no "pure" anyone (much as many ethnocentrists really hope otherwise).

Since you are working on your dissertation in a very fascinating area of science, would you mind addressing the questions I asked? How do you account for these "loathsome" genetic generalities? Many anthropologists do not agree with your viewpoint (although certainly some do). How would you address another anthropologist who would espouse "race-based genetic tendencies"?

[doni_georgia]

126. Anthropologists are not in agreement about race

Technically speaking if all humans were dogs, we'd be the same breed, only with different colors of fur. But historically, anthropologists do recognize the following races: black (Negroid), white (Caucasoid), East Asian (Mongoloid), Melanesian/Australian (Australoid), American Indian, and Polynesian. Whether or not there is scientific evidence to support these races is irrevelent in this discussion, because the vast majority of humans do identify and recongnize races. And regardless of whether science recognizes and supports the concept of race, racism as a condition does exists. There are people of all skin colors, ethnicity, cultures, etc. who believe that people who are like them are better than people who are different, and who believe that people who are of a different color, ethnicity, or culture are somehow inferior to them. There are also people who dislike people of other skin colors, ethnicity, or culture based on either these beliefs or on past experience. Whatever the motivation behind said prejudices it is still, technically racism - whether this person is white, black, latino, Asian, etc.

Technically, the definition for racism is thus:
rac·ism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (rszm)
n.
The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
Discrimination or prejudice based on race.

[Runcible Spoon]

143. gotta call bullshit on this one

Anthropologists who take genetics into0 consideration have completely and utterly dismissed any notion of negroid, caucasoid, etc. races. The concept of "race" arose firstly from "The Great Chain of Being" which put all living things into a heirarchy, and colonialism used this to justify slavery. After this scheme was indoctrinated by certain churches into mainstream culture, the concept of biologically separate races became an acceptable scientific perspective, before genetic theory. Some studying evolutionary theory, specifically multi-regional evolutionists ("splitters") said "races" were a bi-product of their brand of theory. However, even then, there was disagreement. Google Wolpoff vs. Stringer. Whether or not "race" was a biologically relevant classification scheme before colonialism and then globalization, it is not justifiable now, given the extent of interbreeding. Anthropologists realize many people recognize "race" based on physical characteristics, but that does not make it a valid categorization scientifically. We prefer to use "ethnicity" and avoid any reference to "race". Ethnicity is a flexible enough term that people can self-identify based on whatever they please, and we can avoid messy disagreement when discussing the genetic reality of race. From the American Anthropological Association:
"In the United States both scholars and the general public have been conditioned to viewing human races as natural and separate divisions within the human species based on visible physical differences. With the vast expansion of scientific knowledge in this century, however, it has become clear that human populations are not unambiguous, clearly demarcated, biologically distinct groups. Evidence from the analysis of genetics (e.g., DNA) indicates that most physical variation, about 94%, lies within so-called racial groups. Conventional geographic "racial" groupings differ from one another only in about 6% of their genes. This means that there is greater variation within "racial" groups than between them. In neighboring populations there is much overlapping of genes and their phenotypic (physical) expressions. Throughout history whenever different groups have come into contact, they have interbred. The continued sharing of genetic materials has maintained all of humankind as a single species"
more...http://www.aaanet.org/stmts/racepp.htm

[doni_georgia]

163. You can't deny, however that HUMANS do recognize race, and

there are still anthropologists (Jared Diamond for one) who still divide people into races. How we got off on genetics in this discussion is beyond me. To say there are no races is to deny the very real fact that racism does exist. Whether there is genetic justification for race or not, this country and others do recognize races, and individuals certainly identify themselves as members of a race based on the color of their skin.

The point I was originally trying to make is that racism as a condition is not something that only denotes white people being prejudiced against people of color. People of color can be and sometimes are by definition racists.

[wubbathompson]

107. Is that a joke?

Racism defined by Webster's Dictionary.

Racism-The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
Discrimination or prejudice based on race

Racism-n 1: the prejudice that members of one race are intrinsically superior to members of other races 2: discriminatory or abusive behavior towards members of another race

There are most certainly members of other races who feel this way towards whites. In fact, she sounds like she fits this bill to the T.

[noiretextatique]

113. individual vs. instituional racism

can anyone please show me, example the equivalent of the kind of INSTITUTIONAL racism exhibited by whites towards non-whites?

i'm not talking about people being rude or making racist comments,
because of course: ANY ONE CAN DO THAT.

i am talking about systemic discrimination (slavery, jim crow, racial covenants, internment...just to name a few) that favors non-whites and punishes whites

people talk by each other on this subject of definitions because they are often talking about two different things.

I DECLARE THIS RESOLVED: INDIVIDUALS OF ANY RACE CAN BE RACIST

so, can anyone address the kind of racism my bolded comments address...let's call it INSTITUTION RACISM, for lack of a better term.

and let's say for argument's sake that non-whites CAN do this kind of racism. my question is: which group HAS exhibited this kind of GROUP racism in this country, and against which GROUPS?

thanks.

[doni_georgia]

121. WTF? Do you know what racism is?

Racism is the belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability. It is also discriminating or prejudging someone based on his/her race. People of all ethnic groups can be racists (and there are racists in all racial groups).

[noiretextatique]

148. these self-serving defintions explain individual behavior...BUT

i haven't, as yet, heard that black south africans have instituted apartheid, or that black americans have enslaved white americans. or that mexican americans have passed laws to prevent white americans from owning land.
yeah, everybody CAN be racist...

[doni_georgia]

164. You are confusing institutional racism with individual racism

They are two very different things. I did not say that the woman in the post office was setting up a racist government. She was just a biggot. Individuals can be racists without there being any institutional support for their biggotry.

[noiretextatique]

165. i am not "confusing" anything...but i think eveyone else is

of course individuals can be racist, and of course if this woman made those statements, they were racist and stupid.
i was commenting on all the definitions of racism that DID NOT include any mention of institutional racism.

[dsc]

She is a fool

Today gays are getting married due in no small part to the courage of four straight people who read a constitution written by John Adams (another straight man). She has the right to vote, in no small measure, due to whites like Lyndon Johnson and Earl Warren deciding that the 14th Amendment really means what it says.

People in the minority depend upon people in the majority to get basic rights. She should know that. You are in the right and she is in the wrong.

[theboss]

53. James Madison wrote the Constitution

Not Adams.

[bluestateguy]

9. I would have told her to go fuck herself

How does she know if you're racist? What right does she have to peek at your mail and pass judgement?

[Taylor Mason Powell]

10. Speaking as a gay man...

if only gay people could (or did) care about gay rights, then we'd all be in a world o' hurt.

African Americans didn't achieve all those civil rights gains in the 60's all by themselves. It took decent white folk everywhere seeing and feeling their plight to create the critical mass that culminated in, for example, the passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. How many blacks were in congress then, I wonder? I would bet nearly none.

So put that lady's comments out of your mind and keep fighting the good fight.

[Maestro]

11. I can't believe that really happened. What was her malfunction?

I think I would have given her a big glass of

But seriously, she obviously is racist herself. She can't stand the idea of anyone except her own helping her it would seem. I don't know. It's like Hispanics calling me racist for helping them since in my job I work almost exclusively with Hispanic children. I would be completely confused and angered if that ever happened to me. Thank God she is not representative of most African-Americans.

[rhino47]

14. I was rather pole axed too when she started on a rant.

I just cant figure out what she was so upset about.Was it territory?She felt whites were edging into African American icon.Perhaps she just had a bad day.

[seabeyond]

12. she is angry and took it out on you

i would have been more interested in listening to what she had to say so i could better understand what is up in her world, though i certainly wouldnt have taken what she said personally. she, nor i have a clue who you are, your motivation and you are or want out of life. that is yours to do

and i bet naacp is really appreciative of you effort and donation, so they can get rush of being persecuted for abusing drugs, wink,. lol lol lol

[Catherine Vincent]

13. Thank you for your contributions to the NAACP.

That was just some ignoramous you were talking too. They come in all creeds.

[wicket]

15. She's the racist one...

not you :)

[HootieMcBoob]

16. of course not

but she obviously is

[fujiyama]

17. She sounds like a jerk

Ass holes can come in all races.

She must be bitter about something or has a chip on her shoulder. She obviously has some problems.

[lachattefolle]

18. My daughter won a NAACP honorable mention award

for her essay on George Washington Carver. I helped her write it. Good grief, who KNEW peanuts had so many uses? Anyway, we're white so I guess this woman would have come unglued. Hey, what's that saying, don't sweat the small stuff? She's probably been majorly hurt in her life and is taking it out on you.

[Tomee450]

19. Very doubtful.

I am African American and I strongly doubt your story. I don't know of any black person who would have gotten angry and insulted you because of your support for the NAACP. Furthermore, if you truly believe in what the NAACP represents,why would you be shaken because of one incident? Should blacks who believe that many whites are not racists change that view after encountering the white bigot? I am surprised that so many people are accepting this story. Also, those people speaking of "white guilt" are usually conservatives. They use the phrase to bash policies aimed at assisting African Americans.

[bermudat]

20. I am not buying that exchange either.

I don't believe your story. I know lots of black folks, and short of a schizophrenic meltdown or your wearing the stars and bars, that incident sounds like bullsh*t to me.

[Terran]

28. Thank you, that was my first reaction too.

Barring an unusual level of eccentricty or downright mental illness, I do not see any Black person saying something like that in public to a white person. They know quite well what the NAACP is all about, and they know a lot of whites have a history with the NAACP. I think this little tale if totally made up; why I cannot say, except that it makes the woman in question look like a fool.

Edit: I forgot; since you probably made this story up, you probably are a racist too. To answer your question.

[Lisa0825]

30. I had a similar experience before, so I don't doubt the story.

Some people either just have a bad attitude, or are having a rough day/week/year and take out their frustrations on others... regardless of race. I think this was more likely just the result of something totally unrelated.

[Tomee450]

38. I agree

that people have attitudes, have bad days but getting upset because someone is donating to an organization that has done so much for black folks? Absolutely not. This story is highly doubtful.

[Stuckinthebush]

32. I don't doubt it

Rhino47 has been around here for a while, and I trust her account.

Regardless of race, there are people with major issues all over the place. It looks like Rhino47 had the misfortune of running into one of these people.

[Tomee450]

37. The story

imho, is just not believable. I know lots of blacks, am one myself. I do not believe any African American would have behaved as described. I firmly believe that this story is untrue. As I said earlier, "white guilt" is often spoken of by conservatives. I believe arch conservative David Horowitz and others of his ilk have used the term in their effort to dismiss policies that might assist black people.

[KittyWampus]

56. Funny! "I Know Lots Of Blacks, Am One Myself"... Everyone Knows

all blacks think alike!

:D

[Terran]

67. I'm betting you haven't been married to one for 17 years, have you?

I know they don't all think alike, but some things are shared in common as culture. It's no different with white people.

[CTLawGuy]

75. well I don't believe you are black...

no real African American would believe that all African Americans would think the same way...


:eyes:

[Tomee450]

76. Believe what you wish.

While black are not always in agreement on all issues, there are some things black people will not do;one is to attack someone for contributing to an organization that has been in the forefront of attempts to improve the lives of African Americans. I've discussed this story with several African Americans today and not one believes this incident occurred. This is not the first time that I have encountered such a post supposedly written by a progressive. They think they are being clever but are not. When such posts have appeared on African American forums that I've frequented, the red flag was raised immediately and the post was discounted. Organizations such as the NAACP need all the financial assistance they can get. I do not believe any black person would attack a white person for trying to assist.

[CTLawGuy]

86. even if they are

"there are some things black people will not do;one is to attack someone for contributing to an organization that has been in the forefront of attempts to improve the lives of African Americans."


...Clarence Thomas or Alan Keyes? Do you think they like the NAACP?

[Tomee450]

89. I wouldn't know if they like the NAACP

but I don't believe even Keyes or Thomas would berate a white person for contributing to the NAACP.

[Terran]

95. He didn't say he believed that. n/t

[CTLawGuy]

130. he would have to believe that

in order to come to the conclusion that absolutely no black people would berate a white person for contributing to the NAACP and therefore that the poster must be lying about her story.

[Terran]

134. No, that's merely your interpretation.

There's more to it than "thinking alike". If you don't know any Black people on an intimate basis, I doubt you would understand this.

[CTLawGuy]

138. no,

in order to be confident that NO black person would ever act like this woman, you must

1. Know the state of mind of every single black person on the planet (unlikely)
or
2. Work from an assumption that all black people think the same way and know one black person who thinks that way. (more likely)

Without either of those statements being true, you cannot rule out that the woman COULD have acted this way.

[Terran]

142. No one said it was impossible for her to have acted this way.

I am expressing my own very serious *doubts* that she acted that way, or was I not clear on that? As I said in my original observation, a strong degree of eccentricity, or mental illness, could account for it. All I'm saying is that strong cultural patterns of behavior and belief tend to make this extremely unlikely. I never said it was impossible.

[shanti]

70. rhino47 is a woman?

hmmm, that puts a different spin on things, imo. there ARE some bw who absolutely detest ww involved in "black" things, because they think what the ww *really* want is their men. i've read this on numerous black message boards - the anger and hatred is palpable. however, i don't believe that ALL bw are like this, no way.

40. People of all races get stupid at times

I'll assume you're telling the truth, because I have no reason to doubt you (having dealt with some "reverse" racism myself) and because I just can't see what you stand to gain from telling such a story if it were a lie.

Are you a racist? Not based solely on what happened in this story, no way.

But ask yourself honsestly - do you judge people based on their racial heritage?

If you do, you're a racist. If you don't, you're not.

[Tomee450]

41. Yes,

people of all races do act stupid at times. However, in all my years of being black and associating with other blacks, I have never heard of any African American thinking or behaving as this black person.

[CTLawGuy]

74. give me a break

this is totally believable.

there was ONE person who for some reason mistrusts white people. I'm sure you'd agree that black people are not a monolith, and don't think with one mind, but rather harbor a diversity of opinions. Just like the occasional feminist who is mistrustful of men, it is not unreasonable to assume that there exists at least one black person who is disillusioned with and suspicious of the white community.


Also, what reason does the poster have to lie about this?

[Tomee450]

79. Oh please!!

I don't care how angry a black person gets with whites, he still would not object to contributions to an organization formed to help black people. African Americans are not stupid. If one was starving would he attack the person trying to feed him? This poster was attempting to bring in the issue of so called "white guilt" a pet issue of the arch conservatives. She was trying to get whites angry and succeeded. She also said she was questioning her commitment to helping minorities. If she truly believed in justice and equality why would one incident lead her to question whether she should continue that commitment.

[CTLawGuy]

87. because some people are

sensitive about things like that, especially after the incident just happened. Not everyone is thick-skinned. If a minority got upset about something I did, even though I may feel the action was something that is not a big deal, I would probably have to question what I did, because I consider myself sensitive to the feelings of others.

[Tomee450]

90. One can be sensitive

but a single unfortunate incident would not lead him to wonder if he should abandon the cause.

[CTLawGuy]

131. I dont think Rhino was questioning whether to abandon the cause

but rather her motives, as she explains below.

[rhino47]

105. Exactly

I did question my own motives not my actions.I am not letting the congfrontation stop me from supporting something that is important to me.

[Blasphemer]

85. Are you serious?

If you've never met anyone like this woman, consider yourself lucky. I've known quite a few, and they loved lecturing me especially when I was dating outside of my race.

[Tomee450]

93. That's a different issue.

"they loved lecturing me especially when I was dating outside of my race."

I strongly doubt that the black woman who lectured you because you dated outside of your race would attack a person for donating to a civil rights organization. She might be angry but not that angry. I just do not believe this story.

[Blasphemer]

110. Disagree... it's the same issue alright

Similar words were certainly used towards my ex about his reasons for dating me. It's the same garbage to me. The kind of person who thinks that interracial dating only comes with an agenda would likely think that a white person donating to the NAACP involves an agenda as well.

[Tomee450]

115. I disagree

One can disapprove of interracial dating but not object to others acting to benefit one's race. Not the same issue at all.

[rhino47]

104. I used the word white liberal guilt not she.

I was questioning if my motivations for strongly supporting the NAACP was due to white liberal guilt.It is a catch all phrase that is easily identified.I was somewhat shaken at the womans passion and wondering .I think what was said that shook me actually was that I was condescending in feeling that African Americans couldnt help themselves.Which I do not think but it did have me questioning myself.I feel the cure to the problems addressed by the NAACP should be every Americans priority and too everyones benefit.

[Nevernose]

21. NAACP: founded by liberal white Jews

(at least according to legend; their founding is a bit more complicated than that. When I -- a white guy -- donated money to them, they sent me an info packet, but alas, I cannot remember the details. Something about a group of black men in upstate New York? Erie Society, or something like that? At the very least, "The NAACP was founded and financially supported by a bunch of liberal white Jews is a pretty good come back to anyone questioning your loyalty to the cause of minorities.)

I wonder: would that lady in line behind you be allowed to vote next November if it weren't for Freedom Riders, white FBI agents, and white attorneys working with the SLPC?

Ignorance comes in all colors and all creeds. Give her a pass. *sigh* How depressing.

[Tomee450]

23. The fact that the NAACP

was founded with the help of whites is well known among black people. We are also aware of the money and time contributed by Jews and other whites towards the civil rights movement. I don't for one minute believe this story. An African American would have been grateful that this person was contributing to the NAACP. There would not have been an angry confrontation.

[RoyGBiv]

33. NAACP - Founding

The NAACP was formed by a merger of certain liberal intellectuals reacting to a recent race riot in Springfield, Illinois and the Niagara Movement. The Niagara Movement had been formed in 1905, in part, as a response to Booker T. Washington's "Atlanta Compromise" speech.

WEB DuBois, historian and author of The Souls of Black Folk, was the driving intellectual force behind the Niagara Movement and later the original incarnation of the NAACP.

[voice of reason]

22. no you're not

and it sounds like she needs to switch to decaf.

v.o.r.

[mellowinman]

26. Only you can answer that question.

But if it makes you feel better, my guess is you are not. I am white. But I often forget I'm not black. I'm a rock and roll/soul fan, and I like Black Culture very much. I had an argument once with a Black guy I knew, who I had asked not to use the "N" word, because it offends me.

He said it was stupid and racist of me to tell a Black person I am offended by a word that should offend him, if it offends anyone, and I offered that racial matters are not always logical.

I do not apologize that I do not like a word that has such obvious racist connotations. People can use it, but if I have a choice, I'd rather they didn't.

I don't make whatever statements I make on racism to impress anyone. I just have to be true to myself, right or wrong. I don't hate people for being a different race. I don't discriminate against people for being a different race. I also don't hate people for being the same race as me.

I'm having a hard time writing anything good tonight for some reason, but I hope I can come away from this making a point. We all have some ingrained racism, big or small, but we can grow, and basically all we need to do is give it our very best, and most sincere effort.

I hope that doesn't sound like placating crap. I'm very sincere about this. I was raised to believe White people are somehow superior, and not on purpose, either. My parents are a lot less racist than many White people, but they had to overcome their upbringing, and there's always society at large to consider.

I hope I've overcome that horrible training. I hope I can be as cool as Ray Charles. I hope every person of every race can live together in peace and harmony.

That's why I'm a liberal.

I might be a little bit of a racist, but I sure as fuck don't want to be.

I'm guessing this wasn't a post for the mellowinman hall of fame.

Sorry.

[Catherine Vincent]

60. That's a terrific post!

Are you married by chance?:)

[doubles]

27. I would have cursed her out but then again I'm black! I hate it when I

hear about bullshit like this! I would have called her manager to the floor.

[playahata1]

29. See the subject line of my post.

This woman was a fellow customer, not a postal employee. She was in line behind Pinto.

Speaking on POSTAL: People like her deserve to be gone postal on. You and I would have been within our rights to do so.

[daligirrl]

31. Speaking as a real, live Sistah. . .

If this really happened you were dealing with a nut, pure and simple. Believe me, this is rare. You know, like the guy downtown who rants at you because your shoes were obviously manufactured by aliens?

[lachattefolle]

34. Maybe she was a republican nut. They seem pretty unbalanced to me.

[AspenRose]

71. Soy "hermana," tambien

and I agree. She's the one who was off base.

Thank you for your empathy toward race relations. And I might add that black america is NOT a monolith; therefore, just because one idiot says things like this (or a small group of idiots do) doesn't mean they speak for everyone else.

[pezcore64]

35. actually

she was the racist.
racism knows no colour, it can control anyone!
damn.
how harsh can you get about something that was a donation and none of your business.
that girl needs some medication.
haha

[TahitiNut]

36. Isn't it nice to know that assholes come in all colors?

As far as I know, the color of one's skin doesn't mean a damned thing about either what or how one thinks. Why expect it?

So, I guess the answer is "Yes" but most accept it as a "nice" kind of racism. :shrug:

[AP]

39. She's entitled to her opinon, but it's good to have a response

that shuts her up and makes her think.

I might have said something like, 'you're right, I am doing this for myself. But not out of guilt. I think a society in which capable people who want to work and are held back from achieving and contributing their full talents to society, and getting all the rewards they deserve is a poorer society, and I don't want to live in that society. If that makes me selfish, then I guess I'm selfish. I want a better world for everyone because it's going to make my life better So I am doing this for myself.'

Sure she might have said something after that just to say something, but she would have gone home and thought about what I said, and she'd think twice next time she wants to make assumptions about people's motivations.

Oh, by the way, you never know what her experiences are. She might have just met ten people in a row who are racist and buy off their guilt with donations to the NAACP. I'm sure that people like that aren't rare.

[misunderstood]

42. I'm Sorry But.......

your story sounds suspect to me, how can someone that don't know you start letting off steam by seeing your mail. Wouldn't you have called security on her or better yet I suppose there where other people around, they could have got involve too, did you think about that (not). Bravo!!! its well thought and well put together, I think you using this to make yourself feel good. Black women can be spontaneous but not that dumb to act like that. Obviously she must have thought about creating a scene if anything.

Thats my take.

[Cheswick2.0]

48. really? There aren't any black women that dumb?

Amazing, since I know some white women who are fully that dumb.

[noiretextatique]

61. i'm having trouble believing that the poster is so dumb

as to question her values and beliefs because of the ravings of one person. why would she ask if SHE is a racist because of this incident? something about this story bothers me.

[Cheswick2.0]

97. I can understand you POV to some extent

However I can't buy the argument that Tomee knows exactly how all African American people would act. Her arguments sound the same to me as when someone tells me Jews can never do anything cruel because they have all been inoculated by the Holocaust. I don't buy that argument either.
BTW, you have not experience what it is like to have white liberal guilt. It's a real phenomenon and it causes some of us to constantly reexamine the societal messages we may have internalized. That's not such a bad thing. So I think if someone said to me what the original poster claims was said to her, I too would examine my motives.

[Tomee450]

102. Well I guess

we are quite different. I would never wonder if I should not be assisting a white person simply because of an incident with a bigot. I have been called the N word by whites but I just passed it off as the act of an ignorant person and went on with what I was doing. Those incidents did not lead me to examine my relationship with other whites.

[noiretextatique]

114. actually...i have experienced "white guilt"

but i won't bore you with the details :hi:

[noiretextatique]

43. why would you ask if you are a racist?

because of the rantings of one lunatic? and why on earth would this ONE encounter make you question your (obviously) deeply held values and beliefs? i don't know why anyone would make up a story like this, but i confess, i am perplexed about why you would ask if you are a racist just because someONE, who happened to be black, was very rude and insulting to you.
i am curious...
why did you engage this woman?

[DrWeird]

44. Depends.

What details are you leaving out?

[Guaranteed]

45. Seriously: You should have told her that you don't feel too guilty to tell

her to go fuck herself.

[cleofus1]

46. this is a strange story...

She must have had a very, very bad day...probobly someone shit in her cheerios...probobly someone white. You just happened to be the handy white person for her to vent on. Otherwise the story sounds improbable. If I saw some white person with a NAACP contribution envelope I would try to get them to contribute at least 100 bucks or more and then tell them to give it to me so I could drop it off for them. Someone's perception is being left out here...and I think it's mine.

[Tomee450]

103. If I saw that

a person was contributing to the NAACP, I would think what a nice, tolerant person. The idea of White guilt would never enter my mind. The only people I ever hear speaking of white guilt are conservatives.

[union_maid]

49. Assholes come in all colors

I work with a diverse crowd. Liberals of all colors, orientations and persuasions. They're too busy making things happen to judge other people's motives. They feel if you're doing the right things, hell, even if you're just voting for the right things, that's all they need to know.

[LWolf]

50. Donating to the naacp doesn't make you racist. n/t

[Skittles]

51. I would have told her it's none of her f***ing business

none of this has anything to do with race - you just ran into your standard f***ing a**hole; they are a dime a dozen.

[Mountainman]

55. Some white people were founders of the NAACP

1900 - 1918 Top
1909
On February 12th The National Association for the Advancement of Colored People was founded by a multiracial group of activists, who answered "The Call." They initially called themselves the National Negro Committee.

FOUNDERS: Ida Wells-Barnett, W.E.B. DuBois, Henry Moscowitz, Mary White Ovington, Oswald Garrison Villiard, William English Walling and led the "Call" to renew the struggle for civil and political liberty.


http://www.naacp.org/past_future/naacptimeline.shtml

[vetwife]

58. I held an NAACP meeting in my home

I am an activist on Civil Rights and Veterans and disabled rights but it is not about color really to be a member. It isn't. We all have color or else we would be transparent. We just come in different shades. It is about creating equal rights under the law and helping minorities which cover many categories and the chapters of the NAACP that I have been involved with say this quite strongly. I speak to Cong. John Lewis often and I think more races should belong as well does he. Sounds as Bush is pushing the envelope of dividing and we don't want to go back to the 50's and 30's and anytime before Equal Rights. One of a million problems with the bunch in power is that they changed their sheets to robes and spew their hate which is the only case where I know trickle down works. The lady was frustrated but misguided. I have more African American friends that I do Causasian. Maybe that is because in the deep south..Old Ga. Dixieland..if you have black friends the so called christian white don't want to have anything to do with you. Good riddance. Ask me if I care !

[Fleshdancer]

57. well I guess I can't donate to environmental causes because I'm not a tree

what an idiot! I'm sorry you had to deal with her. The advancement of all people in this country, and in this world is up to each and every one of us. You're contributing to society and what is she doing? Bitching about it.

[hughee99]

59. It just goes to show you...

that a$$holes come in all colors. See, we're making great strides toward equality.

[CulturalNomad]

62. She probably had a bad day!

Maybe you should have asked her if she had enrolled in the TIPS program and was looking over your shoulder to spy on you!

[ibegurpard]

63. I'm sorry

but I just flat-out don't believe this story.

[Tomee450]

80. I don't believe it either.

In fact no black person I've discussed this with today believes it.

[metasphere]

160. What if the tables were turned?

And a white (or Asian or Latino or ...) person doubted your story because "no white would act like/think like that" for some similarly wrongheaded behavior?

Isn't it important that people from all races and backgrounds be prepared to acknowledge that members of their groups can at times have unreasonable prejudices and bias-related behavior?

[shanti]

68. that woman was totally out of line

sounds like she was having a bad day and just felt like venting. once she made the first comment, i would've just smiled and not said a thing. you definitely don't sound racist!

[SemperEadem]

72. next time you stand in line at the post office

don't have all your business out on display for others to read it... seems that one thing would have averted this whole incident, if it truly happened, and happened the way you say it did.

Any nut can look over your shoulder and get your address and phone number. That was a lesson about being careless with your private information.

[funkybutt]

77. HAHAHAHA!!

not sure why but that is the funniest story i've heard all day! Sounds like somethign that would happen to me.

[iconoclastic cat]

81. I know a lot of teachers that have that happen

I would say that about once a week, one of the teachers we (Ms. IC and I) hang out with tells a story about a parent/student/administrator who accuses them of being racist out of the blue.

Sure. This teacher went to college for six years, took a 10-hour-per-day (in reality) job that requires staying away from the classroom windows to avoid stray bullets for $36K just to torment black kids. One of our friends, who is herself African-American, was called into a meeting with a disgruntled parent and the principal to defend herself against the charge of having a light-skin bias!

I, actually, have a theory: The atrocities done to many ethnic/religious/ideological minorities in this country have created a festering wound that flares up under certain stimuli. It's like a reflex borne of trauma.

We never had that "National Conversation on Race" that Mr. Clinton wanted to have (before becoming distracted). We need to have it, or the repressed anger will always keep this country from reaching its potential.

[Nimble_Idea]

82. This sounds like you made it up.

sorry I don't buy it, It's very unlikely this happened.

[Puglover]

111. Nimble_Idea

LOL....what a piercing observation.
:eyes:

[DFLer4edu]

83. Yes, you are a racist!

but I hope you have better judgement than to listen to me, racist.

[Blasphemer]

84. I hate people like this woman

I am black and have met quite a few of her type in my day. It's the kind of angry, bitter rhetoric that is divisive and completely undermines the ability to improve race relations in this country. Accusing someone who supports the NAACP of being a "hidden racist" is ludicrous. I've met my fair share of hidden racists and they'd die before supporting the NAACP. Don't question your own motives - question hers. Some of the most extreme "black power" activists have an agenda that involves keeping this country divided. I support gay rights and I'll be damned if anyone told me that I couldn't because I was straight.

[Tomee450]

88. Really?

Your are black? Hmmm.....

[Blasphemer]

109. Yes and I don't understand...

what's so hard to believe about this story. Quite frankly, it has me scratching my head that it's so hard to fathom for some.

[noiretextatique]

116. a nationalist would probably not bother

even discussing the issue, since many of them wouldn't have much use for an organization like the NAACP. or for white people, for that matter.

[carolinayellowdog]

94. Calling the thread originator a disruptor, liar, impostor etc.

is against DU rules for a very good reason. It's a truly awful experience when the accusations are false, something the rules try to protect members from suffering. If they are true, that's the mods' business. Don't confront and accuse; use alert.

[Tomee450]

96. What are you talking about.?

Do you believe everything that is written on a message board? I don't. Who has called the poster a liar, disrupter, etc.?As an African American I just find this story hard to believe and have stated my opinion.Is stating one's opinion really against the rules? I did not think so.

[Cheswick2.0]

98. you have called her a liar

though you may not have used the actual word.

[Tomee450]

100. And you

have never disagreed with a post and not said so? If someone posts a message on this board and one feels strongly that it is untrue, he is not allowed to say so?

[noiretextatique]

117. Actually, several people don't believe the story

not just Tomee450.

[Puglover]

112. Yeah and as a Gay American

I am the final word on everything that anybody tells me about other Gay Americans behavior. Cmon!
:eyes:

[Tomee450]

118. Please!!

I suggest that there are some things that gays will not do. Would you attack a person who was acting to benefit gays? I don't think so and I firmly believe that there are certain behaviours that blacks are very unlikely to engage in such as the berating of someone trying to help them.

[Puglover]

119. Tell me, if a co-worker told such a story

would you stand there and calmly tell them, "I don't believe you" Not knowing you I don't know but I would not. To me it's unnecessarily confrontational. I think that even on this board you should afford someone the same courtesy...if you don't believe it fine...MOVE ON....or PM them...why people feel it's okay to high jack someone elses post into a flame fest is beyond me. You simply do NOT know what happened in this situation. People are people, Ive met other gay folks who are complete assholes and yes, I think gay people attack folks who are trying to help them all the time. Case in point the Log Cabin Repukes. To them the rest of us are "activists". I don't think you can pin behavior expectations on ANYONE....based on color of skin, sexual orientation...etc.etc...period.
Honestly, I'm not accusing you of anything really...just disagreeing with you.
:)

[Tomee450]

123. I strongly disagree

One should be able to state his opinion as long as he does not engage in vicious attacks and name calling. People disagree on this board all the time. Why is this situation involving race to be treated differently. If one disagrees, he should be able to say so. Further when someone challenges your disagreement you should be able to say why you are refuting their assertions. I would also say that, unlike you,I do not accept outrageous statements from anyone, not even my friends. If a coworker came to me with such a story, I would not believe them and by the incredulous look on my face they would know it. What good does it do to remain silent when someone says something you believe to be untrue. Martin Luther King did not remain silent,thank God. He challenged people.

[Puglover]

125. With all respect

I would hesitate to compare Dr. King's outcry with this situation however to each his own. Cheers.

[Tomee450]

128. I suggest that

small offenses that go unchecked only embolden the perpetrators to commit greater offenses. The original post may have achieved what might have been its objective. For many here, it's look what that racist black woman did. People are riled who have no idea whether this story is true or not.

[carolinayellowdog]

129. This goes beyond "not believing" into confrontation and...

accusation. Stating one's opinion IS against the rules when one's opinion is "calling out" another DUer with accusations of lying, misrepresentation, imposture.

[Tomee450]

136. I totally reject your assertion.

I must say that black people often encounter people who confront them angrily after hearing the black person's opinion. We are not supposed to disagree but accept claims we strongly believe are not true. People have often disagreed on this forum, why is this situation different? Your attitude reminds me of the time that my mother was called uppity when she dared to expresse her opinion. I answered the original poster and was responded to by others to whom I then answered. I believe I responded only once to the original poster. It's really sad that a black person should not be able to express his disagreement without being called confrontational. I guess some things never change.

[GOPBasher]

99. She's a bitch!!! Don't let her get you second-guessing yourself.

Oh I get it, so if I support civil rights even though I'm not black, I'm a hidden racist???? :shrug:
This person is obviously a stupid bitch. Don't pay attention to her.

[wubbathompson]

106. YOU ARE A HORRIBLE PERSON.

Just kidding. Sounds to me like this woman is the racist one. Well, she may not be racist, just stupid. Keep your chin up!

[LynzM]

108. I don't think you are.

And I don't understand the reactions of everyone here saying that 'no black would ever think/act like that'... isn't that, in and of itself, a form of racism? If I answered a story with "no white person" or "no Jewish person" or "no woman" or "no _________", wouldn't I get a lot of flames for my prejudice? Just because you've never met someone like that, doesn't mean that someone doesn't exist. There are people within any group who will disagree with or hold different opinions than the majority of the group members. I don't think that makes rhino a liar, just someone who was unfortunate enough to run into someone with a lot of anger. And I know that I, for one, would be replaying a scene like that in my head and questioning my own motives if criticized by someone from a group of people I was theoretically supporting.

'Sides, even if it were made up, it brings up and interesting dialogue, doesn't it? :D

[doni_georgia]

120. Racists come in all colors, and you, my friend, met one at the post office

Using this woman's philosphy, only people with AIDS should give to AIDS resarch, only those people with Cancer should give to the Cancer Society, by all means, don't any of you uppity non-disabled folks give to the March of Dimes! Think of this woman's comments the same way you would have from a white racist. Would a white racist questioning your giving to the NAACP make you question your motives? If not, don't let this woman mess with your head!

[Name removed]

122. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tomee450]

124. Unfortunately

there are too many people like you. When they get angry at a black person, the first thing out of the mouth is the N word.

[Fescue4u]

127. If you have to ask, then you are not.

Racist is one of the most overused words in our volcabulary.

(just a little insight into my comment in the subject, EVERYONE is a little bit racist, but if you then assert that everyone is racist, then the meaning of the word is lost....IMO, "racist" should be reserved for the folks who actively discriminate..hence if you don't know if you are, then you arent)

[boobooday]

132. Sounds like maybe she was a little off her meds

Maybe she was having a bad day.

Maybe she just shared an elevator with Saxby Chambliss . . .

http://www.wgoeshome.com

[Catherine Vincent]

139. Seems like this thread won't die anytime soon.....

JOHN KERRY 2004!

[myopic4141]

140. My best replay

When confronted a while ago about being racist, I replied: "I cannot be a racist. I do not care about your race, creed, color, sex, or sexual preference. I am not ever going to like you for I dislike everyone equally and the same. Learn to live with that."

[Angelus]

141. Geez...

you try to help out with getting rid of racism and supporting the cause to end it in this world and she jumps on your back about it.

Seems like she's a racist against whites.

You should've told her to go fuck herself. I would've.

You're not racist.

[Runcible Spoon]

145. WTF? So now only pandas, tigers, and sea turtles can donate to WWF???

grrrrrrr !

[GiovanniC]

146. What Are You Trying to Say?

That black people are animals that can't take care of themselves?





/sarcasm

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

147. Her stance wasn't much different from Malcolm X's before his Hajj

He didn't want any white money in the uplifting of the black race. He wanted blacks helping blacks, he felt white money - no matter howwell intentioned would poison the movement.

[phoebe]

151. Judging by the comments on this thread, this country has effectively

been divided along lines of race and religion, to say the least.

"Culture wars" are specifically designed to keep us fragmented and on guard against each other. That is why this country has fallen so far in the last 3 1/2 years. Until we can clearly understand that we are all in this together then, and only then, are we going to be able to mount any kind of defense against what is going on.

[Delano]

152. No, you're not, but you shouldn't have belabored it with her.

I would have just said "I'm sorry you feel that way, goodbye."

All kinds of people have their own special little axes to grind, and you stumbled across this lady's.

Anyway, it's very unprofessional for a postal worker to ask a customer questions about their personal mail, much less excoriate them for it.

You'd be well within your rights if you complained to her supervisor about her rude attitude. (Of course then you would feel even MORE "white guilt! ;)"

[Deb-Ter]

153. Of course not,

that person was probably having a really bad day.

[JVS]

155. I haven't read your post, but you shouldn't be asking this on DU.

It is the DU equivalent of do I look fat in these jeans. Somebody along the way is going to say yes and then we have a nice flamewar on our hands.

[NJ Blue Collar]

157. Of course not.

Either she was having an incredibly bad day, or she's just a nasty, hateful person.

[libhill]

162. Seems to me -

that she is the real racist in this anecdote- racism runs both ways, and she needs to take a good hard look at herself.