Florida approves touch-screen vote system

[Sticky]

But Diebold's equipment has raised flags in at least four states.
(Hope this hasn't already been posted)

By J. TAYLOR RUSHING
Capital Bureau Chief
TALLAHASSEE -- Florida has certified the state's first touch-screen voting system by Diebold, a company whose machines have been banned or scrutinized in California, Maryland, Ohio and Washington.

The Diebold AccuVote TSR6 will be available for use in all of Florida's 67 counties, including Duval, where an official said they will be used as early as the Aug. 31 state primary election. Diebold had applied for certification on March 22 after past applications for earlier versions of the machines failed.

-snip-

"The system banned in California was different and was never presented to Florida for certification," Nash said. "Also, the version criticized in Maryland and Ohio was different, too. This is a newer version and includes improvements that eliminates those problems."

-snip-

"We're completely satisfied and we have no reservations about the integrity of the system," Carlberg said.

Touch-screen machines have been disparaged by critics who note they do not allow paper records or recounts, and Diebold's models have been particularly questioned by computer experts who say they can be sabotaged. Political donations by company executives or relatives -- more than $325,000 since 2000, much of it going to President Bush -- also have been criticized.

-more-

http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/051804/met_15634426.shtml

[BabsSong]

1. Well, if your doubted the corruption of Diebold and these machines

before, you just got proof to the contrary. Kerry, please use your money and time to campaign elsewhere....they will never, never, never let you win in Florida (you can go to the bank on it).

[NMDemDist2]

2. CHITCHITCHIT this sux! Florida's gonna get had again n/t

[PretzelWarrior]

3. my friendly African-American and Jewish Florida voters....

GO ABSENTEE BALLOT. This is disgusting in it's blatant disregard for all of the findings around these machines and this company.

I'm starting to think that Democracy will only be restored in this country through the barrel of a gun.

[SCRUBDASHRUB]

5. Great. F*cking Jeb Bush.

[tom_paine]

10. God Forbid.

Let it not come to that.

[PretzelWarrior]

12. I don't want it either. These lawless ones need to be held to account

I think armed insurrection is the worst possible direction this could go if it doesn't pass the smell test.

I want the US back! Maybe we can get some more democrats in the Senate and House...freeze Bush's ability to move forward...get him impeached.

[Andy_Stephenson]

23. On Diebold machines?

Hope we all enjoy never ending facism.

[otohara]

4. Of Course They Did

Anything to disenfranchise voters works for Florida

[Rebellious Republican]

6. Did anyone expect less from Prince Jebs Fiefdom?

No surprise here, our only hope is that there will be a statewide power failure on election day!

[whistle]

7. FUCK!

:wtf:

[Wind Dancer]

8. Wow!

What's next?

[kimchi]

9. This Just In: Florida goes to Bush--before any votes are cast.

Freakin' idiots.

[tom_paine]

11. You beat me to it: Bush just "won" Florida

God, how awful.

Already that bastard has a 10% Diebold Head Start.

Wally O'Dell is making good on his promise.

[TinfoilHatProgrammer]

13. let's not overreact or anything

The story says Diebold's touch-screen machines were certified for use in Florida. I think it's important to note that Florida doesn't actually have any of them at this time. Duval county apparently plans to use a few Diebold touchscreens at election central for any blind voters who want to show up there and vote on them; the county uses optical scan technology in all of its regular voting centers. The rest of Florida will vote on optical scan paper ballots, or on non-Diebold touch-screens.

I seriously doubt that Diebold/Jeb/whoever is going to try to rig the Florida election by manipulating a miniscule number of ballots cast by blind voters on a handful of touchscreens at election central in a single county. They'd be better off rigging the election the old-fashioned way, using the time-honored tradition of "losing" or stuffing a bunch of paper-based ballot boxes. ;)

:tinfoilhat: JC :tinfoilhat:

[Eric J in MN]

14. Don't you think the other electronic voting machine companies

Don't you think the other electronic voting machine companies are pro-Bush?

[TinfoilHatProgrammer]

15. nope

At least, not to the extent of trying to secretly program the computers to rig the election in their favor.

Here's an example: look at Diebold's touch-screen voting software (why not, everyone else has :)). ITAs have looked at it. Various internet BBV people purporting to be programmers have looked at it. Avi Rubin and his pals have looked at it. SAIC looked at it. RABA looked at it. CompuWare looked at it. California secretary of state's chief auditor has looked at it. The Florida state certification people have looked at it. The list pretty much goes on and on (and it really does kind of make you wonder why we need open source when the vendors apparently distribute the code to any clients who ask for it, lol.)

Back to the point. All of these people have looked at it. And all of these people, with the exception of the BBV people and maybe the California guy, are arguably computer experts. And to date, there have been zero reports of any secret election-rigging code in the software. Avi Rubin himself called the suggestion absurd. And Kevin Shelley, chief nutbar in the great state of California, declared in his report decertifying the Diebold TSx machines for other reasons that they actually counted votes "with 100% accuracy". One hundred percent. You can look any of this stuff up. Seriously.

So do I think that other electronic voting machine companies are pro-Bush? I have no idea. Certainly most of them appear to have made donations to the Republican party. Certainly various individuals in the industry are clearly pro-Bush. Wally O'Dell, CEO of Diebold Inc. is a big-time Republican (although Bob Urosevich, president of Diebold Election Systems is a card-carrying Democrat, amusingly enough). Either way, there's no indication that any of these systems are rigged one way or the other. Feel free to post any conclusive demonstration to the contrary... I've been asking for it for close to a year now.

:tinfoilhat: JC :tinfoilhat:

[PretzelWarrior]

16. you really haven't learnd much during all these discussions

wow. hey...if you are just arguing the other side for the heck of it or truly want to convince us because that's your belief, why don't you tell me that there's NO WAY someone could hack into them during the elections to change vote record?

It's been proven over and over again. Screw the "secret code" to rig the results. That would be only one way to do it.

I've had it with all of this naysaying. Clearly, there are valid concerns about security and til they have been adequately addressed, there's no reason to hold elections using them.

WTF? Do we need to know results the first night? NO! Do the counting by manual methods, get it right, and stop with all the shilly shallying about how to change the system at this point.

If they want fair and accurate elections, we have the ability to make it happen.

[Eric J in MN]

27. At most, you've provided evidence that one 2002 race wasn't

At most, you've provided evidence that one 2002 Georgia election wasn't rigged with last-minute software.

Whether the Georgia 2002 election was rigged with earlier code and whether electronic voting machines have been rigged in other elections would still be an open question.

[stickdog]

17. Fraud-o-Matic machines have been approved in Florida.

I'd say it's impossible to OVERREACT to this news.

[Kazak]

18. Gee...

couldn't see that one coming.

[shraby]

19. They have to have paper

ballots on hand in case the machines quit working for any reason..have people outside the polling places with big signs "ASK FOR A PAPER BALLOT". Keep them at least 100 feet from the polling place so no one can say someone is campaigning at the polls.

[vetwife]

21. Well there goes Florida..Help Bev ! Help !

We knew he would steal it if he had to blow us up. After all he and Snarl have the bunkers. i hate this. Wonder what Back Box voting can do about this. Look at Ga. and you got Florida.

[thecrow]

20. Well, some one who tried to change things is DEAD!

http://www.unknownnews.net/030314truvote.html

<snip>
With a federal mandate for states to review and upgrade their vote casting systems by 2006, Mr. Gibbs' invention was getting increasing attention nationwide, Cooper said.

"Every once in awhile, we see a fundamental need in this country and someone comes up with a fundamental discovery to fill that need, and that's what Athan had," Cooper said. "This is a tragic loss for the entire country."

<snip (on same page)>
"I can honestly say that I have never in my life worked with a person on a project who was more dedicated," says Michael A. Grant, Gibbs' vice president for marketing. "He was a visionary. He had a fantastic idea. It was the right idea for the right time. It was a genuine concern for fixing what was broken with our democracy. And I give him credit because the whole country is now talking about an audit trail."

Adrienne Brandon, chief financial officer for TruVote, says only weeks ago Gibbs asked her: "‘If something happened to me, would you carry this on?'" She says, "Even with him gone, we will."

[Andy_Stephenson]

22. And now Microsoft is moving in...

I wonder how much MS has invested in TruVote?

Edit: Changed the spelling of TruVote so TFHP had no reason to comment.

He will anyway...watch.

[RedEagle]

24. Does Florida require Federal certification?

Since the last were not federally certified, and the back log at the old ITA is pretty good by now, (2002 standards and all) did Diebold just sell machines again on the promise they would get certified?

What is the deal with Florida? Usually if the state certifies them it's a good indication they have to have federal certification, too.

[spokanelaw]

25. New American Bill of Rights

I propose a positive program embodied in five new amendments to the United States Constitution, a "New American Bill of Rights." I hope that people from all political perspectives might accept these new "Rights."

New American Bill of Rights

Health Care - Every person living in the United States has the right to basic health care. This means providing the treatment reasonably necessary to prevent and cure diseases and injuries to the body or mind, with respect and compassion. If a cure is not reasonably available, then care shall be provided to sustain the patient free of pain, in dignity and comfort. This care shall be provided at public expense if not otherwise available.

Opportunity - Every citizen in every region of the United States who obeys the law and works hard has the right to economic opportunity for them and their children. No law shall be enacted by the United States or the several states which give any person or corporation, foreign or domestic, any economic advantage at the expense of other citizens. Laws designed to redress historic social and economic disadvantages are encouraged and shall be reviewed periodically to insure that they are effective in carrying out their remedial objectives. Laws restricting or taxing specific activities which are designed to promote the health, safety and welfare of the people are permitted and shall be reviewed periodically to ensure that they continue to promote their stated goals.

Education - Every person living in the United States shall have the right to a basic education which trains them in independent life skills, the duties of a citizen and for basic employment. Every citizen of the United States has the right to be trained for employment to which their abilities and aptitudes are best suited and for which there is a demand in their region.

Unequal Influence in Government - Every citizen of the United States has the right to participate equally in the selection of elected officials and other public choices made by way of initiate, referendum and recall in the United Sates and the several states. No decision process shall be permitted which allows any greater participation to citizens who have substantially more resources than other citizens involved in that decision process. Only United States citizens and not corporations or other persons, shall participate in decision processes. All candidates for election and participants in other choices shall have equal access to all communications media.

Undeclared Conflicts - The people of the United States shall be free from undeclared military conflicts. The President and Congress of the United States shall not engage in any substantial hostile military activities unless War has been declared according to law. There shall be a grace period of thirty days after the commencement of defensive military activities during which the President may direct defensive military action. No funds of the United States shall be expended unless a state of war has been declared, and no member of the Armed Forces shall be punished for declining to participate in military activities without a declaration of war except during a defensive grace period.

[tom_paine]

26. Inetersting. But it gioes way too far in the opposite direction, IMHO

Health care-- Good basic idea. Where I respectfully diagree in the "injuries of the mind" part. Unlike physiological injuries, in which the sciences of diagnosis and cure are relatively firm (a viral infection or gangrene, is not open to "Pundit Interpretation") psychology is open to wide interpretation and individual diagnosis varies with perspective. If your appendix is going to burst, doctors won't stand outside arguing with some saying that it's just a tummy ache and will go away...

So, "injuries of the mind" cannot be a right, IMHO, because the science is not concrete enough to warrant it. It may never be. And you've seen these pills for "social-anxiety disorder"...these people are SHY. You really want to write that shit (don't get me wrong, much of psychiatry and psychology is beneficial, if relatively young for a science i.e. chemistry is 400 years old) into the Constituion, I think.

Opportunity--Again, good idea, disagree with the individual wording and again, I think it goes way too far as you have written it. First, consider the wrangling over the 2nd Amendment wording as example. This line is troublesome: No law shall be enacted by the United States or the several states which give any person or corporation, foreign or domestic, any economic advantage at the expense of other citizens. Think of the interpretation fights over THAT. Too close too Communism, to me. Too far in the opposite direction. People who don't just work hard, but REALLY HARD, people who take risks and try things, should be rewarded for going above and beyond, IMHO. (yes, uyes I know that they aren't always the ones rewarded, it's an imperfect world and all we can do is try) I would end Corporate Welfare, too, and some others, but I wouldn't go that far.

That line could be applied to ALMOST ANYTHING.

Education--In general, total agreement. The wording is a little too Marxist for my tastes. There better not be ANY WAY that such an Amendment can even COME CLOSE to being interpreted as coercive education or give the government power to choose what a person trains in.

NEVER!

Unequal Influence in Government-- Again, way too far, There should be a LITTLE unequal influence. In other words, a bum on the street should NOT have the same ability to effect the political processs as a productive member of society. Societies which try to legislate TOTAL EQUALITY, wind up being the most UNEQUAL of all.

Undeclared Conflicts -- I think I like this one 100%.

Good post. Thought provoking.

Welcome to DU, spokanelaw! :toast: :toast:

[dusty64]

28. A hackable "voting" method

with NO way to ever do a recount. Yeah that sounds about right for Florida. I'm beyond trying to figure out how they get away with this outrageous shit anymore.