Why The Anti-War Movement Was Right ~ April 16, 2003

[mzmolly]

by Arianna Huffington

The Bible tells us that pride goeth before the fall. In Iraq, it cameth right after it. From the moment that statue of Saddam hit the ground, the mood around the Rumsfeld campfire has been all high-fives, I-told-you-sos, and endless smug prattling about how the speedy fall of Baghdad is proof positive that those who opposed the invasion of Iraq were dead wrong.

What utter nonsense. In fact, the speedy fall of Baghdad proves the anti-war movement was dead right.

The whole pretext for our unilateral charge into Iraq was that the American people were in imminent danger from Saddam and his mighty war machine. The threat was so clear and present that we couldn't even give inspectors searching for weapons of mass destruction -- hey, remember those? -- another 30 days, as France had wanted.

Well, it turns out that, far from being on the verge of destroying Western civilization, Saddam and his 21st century Gestapo couldn't even muster a half-hearted defense of their own capital. The hawks' cakewalk disproves their own dire warnings. They can't have it both ways. The invasion has proved wildly successful in one other regard: It has unified most of the world -- especially the Arab world -- against us.

Interesting to reflect upon the past year.

Woops, guess I should include the link huh?
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0416-04.htm

[NMDemDist2]

1. kick n/t

[mzmolly]

2. Thanks, sorry I forgot the link.

:hi:

[Name removed]

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[Sparkly]

6. I missed the part

where anybody "suggest(ed) that we ignore them and their plight." --?

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[ixion]

7. their plight? is their plight to die at the hands of the US military?

in that case, I'd say we're helping them with their plight pretty well.

The case for liberation has always been week at best. The US rarely acts as a truly liberating force. More often than not, the result is a dictatorship when the US 'liberates' a country.

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[mzmolly]

9. I suggest that the war was not about "torture" it was about a threat

to AMERICA.

I suggest that Bush and his cronies lied to the nation when they said that Saddam had WMD in and around the area of Tikrit.

I suggest that you were lied to when they said that OIL in Iraq would pay for the war.

I suggest we had alot on the proverbial plate, namely OSAMA BIN LADEN *who remains at large* and that should have taken precidence over ousting dictators.

I suggest that Saddam Hussein is a typical ruler in the Mid East, and in fact, was kind comparatively.

I suggest once again, that you were lied to, and are using the *liberation* excuse to pretend that Bush had noble reasons for an invasion of Iraq.

Thanks for your suggestion on the use of BOLD letters, however I will continue to stress my points as I wish.

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[Sparkly]

16. Hoo boy, start making your list

of all the other countries we need to "liberate," by that standard!! And while you're at it, figure out how many soldiers we'll need to draft, and how many generations it'll take to pay it off.

(Hmm, "loose..." Where have I seen that spelling before?...)

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[Sparkly]

21. So make the list!

We wouldn't want to make any mistakes like "Bill," now would we?

Who's first?

[mzmolly]

23. Are you a Bush supporter

notimetolose?

[Name removed]

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[mzmolly]

30. Riiiiight. Your not a very good Libertarian...

Libertarians Fear War Against Iraq Will Lead to Military Draft

(CNSNews.com) - America's third largest political party claims that legislation signed by President Bush could place graduating high school students on the front lines in a "senseless" war against Iraq.

But the U.S. Departments of Education and Defense say they're just providing "military opportunities" to America's youth.

Libertarian Party Political Director Ron Crickenberger said the No Child Left Behind Act of 2001 contains an overlooked amendment to the Elementary and Secondary Education Act of 1965. That amendment requires public high schools to turn over students' names, addresses and telephone numbers to military recruiters.

Crickenberger said the Libertarian Party has long opposed a military draft and federal Selective Service requirements for young men between the ages of 18 and 26. He fears that, faced with an imminent war against Iraq, the U.S. military will reinstate the draft to send young men to fight an "unpopular" war of "aggression."

Seems you have more in common with the Republicans.

http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewPentagon.asp?Page=%5CPentagon%5Carchive%5C200210%5CPEN20021023a.html

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[bpilgrim]

27. the U.N. inspectors were all over iraq

hello...

peace

[tabasco]

31. Oh god you're cracking me up.

If Clinton had sent troops to Rwanda, you and your ilk would condemn him for sending American boys to clean up the world and do nation building. You freaking hypocrites have no principles other than support what your fuhrers tell you. Nation building bad today - good tomorrow - whatever Rush tells me!
Are you a vet? If not, get down to the recruiting station and support the troops. HUA? You don't even know what it means.
It's not America's job to clean up every government on the globe we don't like.

[mzmolly]

35. Yes, and lets remember deficits are now "good" for America.

Along with *outsourcing* and importing slave labor. What am I forgetting here?

[Sparkly]

43. Well, thrift is no longer a virtue and

according to Cheney, conserving gas is "not the American way."

[mzmolly]

45. Right. And ... Up is down - black is white.

;)

[Name removed]

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[mzmolly]

49. You mean brainwashing.

Which is necessary in order to continue the thought process you adhere to.

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[mzmolly]

51. Sure, let's start with Bush.

That's the number one thing that's wrong.

[Sparkly]

60. Aw now, msmolly, we can't blame the poor little Bushboy

The hapless little leader of the free world didn't know! Whatever the problem being discussed, the answer is, he didn't know!

It was an intelligence failure, that's all! er...

[mzmolly]

61. I spose, especially when the guy is as dumb as he is.

:shrug:

I'll try to remember that Sparkly. :hi:

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[Sparkly]

53. There were no terrorist cells in Iraq threatening us.

The Bush regime *enabled* new groups to organize in Iraq. They were not there when he rushed in with his invasion.

[mzmolly]

56. Interesting to note that the looney left warned of this.

*Shakes head*

[NMDemDist2]

62. Israel has violated many more UN directives than Saddam did

shouldn't they be next?

[Djinn]

103. want a list of OTHER nations in violation of UN directives

how about we start with the USA - p'raps the Nicuraguans can get together a coalition of the willing and invade.

[mzmolly]

104. And, I spect that would be one mighty big coalition with * in the OO?

;)

[mzmolly]

19. What dictator do you want to oust next?

How many people has Bush killed with his so called Christian agenda?

Did you know that EVERY major Christian Church in the US was AGAINST this invasion (with the exception of the Southern Baptist congregation?) Bush's own church the UMC was a critic of the war?

To what Church do you belong?

Do you think the removal of Saddam was MORE important than finding Osama Bin Laden?

Do you think Saddam is the last evil dictator or are there more?

Do you think people would rather die at the hands of the US then Saddam Hussein?

Do you think that the Iraqi's wanted our invasion?

Did you know that:

"our State Department gave a "green light" to Saddam Hussein to go into Kuwait in August 1990" Ahh, the Reagan years.

And...

"the US Army War College tells us that 1.4 million Iraqi civilians have died as a result of the sanctions, which is 3,000 times more than the number of Kurds who supposedly died of gassing at the hands of Saddam."

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/helms.html

This war was bullshit, p-e-r-i-o-d.

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[Sparkly]

28. Yes, many countries are in violation of the UN

Should we start with Israel?

Man, that is going to be one loooong list...

[mzmolly]

32. Uhm, The United States.

Under the Bush regime.

And...

Resolution 252 (1968) Israel
Urgently calls upon Israel to rescind measures that change the legal status of Jerusalem, including the expropriation of land and properties thereon.

262 (1968) Israel
Calls upon Israel to pay compensation to Lebanon for destruction of airliners at Beirut International Airport.

267 (1969) Israel
Urgently calls upon Israel to rescind measures seeking to change the legal status of occupied East Jerusalem.

271 (1969) Israel
Reiterates calls to rescind measures seeking to change the legal status of occupied East Jerusalem and calls on Israel to scrupulously abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention regarding the responsibilities of occupying powers.

298 (1971) Israel
Reiterates demand that Israel rescind measures seeking to change the legal status of occupied East Jerusalem.

353 (1974) Turkey
Calls on nations to respect the sovereignty, independence, and territorial integrity of Cyprus and for the withdrawal without delay of foreign troops from Cyprus.

354 (1974) Turkey
Reiterates provisions of UNSC resolution 353.

360 (1974) Turkey
Reaffirms the need for compliance with prior resolutions regarding Cyprus "without delay."

364 (1974) Turkey
Reaffirms the need for compliance with prior resolutions regarding Cyprus.

367 (1975) Turkey
Reaffirms the need for compliance with prior resolutions regarding Cyprus.

370 (1975) Turkey
Reaffirms the need for compliance with prior resolutions regarding Cyprus.

377 (1979) Morocco
Calls on countries to respect the right of self-determination for Western Sahara.

379 (1979) Morocco
Calls for the withdrawal of foreign forces from Western Sahara.

380 (1979) Morocco
Reiterates the need for compliance with previous resolutions.

391 (1976) Turkey
Reaffirms the need for compliance with prior resolutions regarding Cyprus.

401 (1976) Turkey
Reaffirms the need for compliance with prior resolutions regarding Cyprus.

414 (1977) Turkey
Reaffirms the need for compliance with prior resolutions regarding Cyprus.

422 (1977) Turkey
Reaffirms the need for compliance with prior resolutions regarding Cyprus.

440 (1978) Turkey
Reaffirms the need for compliance with prior resolutions regarding Cyprus.

446 (1979) Israel
Calls upon Israel to scrupulously abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention regarding the responsibilities of occupying powers, to rescind previous measures that violate these relevant provisions, and "in particular, not to transport parts of its civilian population into the occupied Arab territories."

452 (1979) Israel
Calls on the government of Israel to cease, on an urgent basis, the establishment, construction, and planning of settlements in the Arab territories, occupied since 1967, including Jerusalem.

465 (1980) Israel
Reiterates previous resolutions on Israel's settlements policy.

471 (1980) Israel
Demands prosecution of those involved in assassination attempts of West Bank leaders and compensation for damages; reiterates demands to abide by Fourth Geneva Convention.

484 (1980) Israel
Reiterates request that Israel abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention.

487 (1981) Israel
Calls upon Israel to place its nuclear facilities under the safeguard of the UN's International Atomic Energy Agency.

497 (1981) Israel
Demands that Israel rescind its decision to impose its domestic laws in the occupied Syrian Golan region.

541 (1983) Turkey
Reiterates the need for compliance with prior resolutions and demands that the declaration of an independent Turkish Cypriot state be withdrawn.

550 (1984) Turkey
Reiterates UNSC resolution 541 and insists that member states may "not to facilitate or in any way assist" the secessionist entity.

573 (1985) Israel
Calls on Israel to pay compensation for human and material losses from its attack against Tunisia and to refrain from all such attacks or threats of attacks against other nations.

592 (1986) Israel
Insists Israel abide by the Fourth Geneva Conventions in East Jerusalem and other occupied territories.

605 (1987) Israel
"Calls once more upon Israel, the occupying Power, to abide immediately and scrupulously by the Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Times of War, and to desist forthwith from its policies and practices that are in violations of the provisions of the Convention."

607 (1986) Israel
Reiterates calls on Israel to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention and to cease its practice of deportations from occupied Arab territories.

608 (1988) Israel
Reiterates call for Israel to cease its deportations.

636 (1989) Israel
Reiterates call for Israel to cease its deportations.

641 (1989) Israel
Reiterates previous resolutions calling on Israel to desist in its deportations.

658 (1990) Morocco
Calls upon Morocco to "cooperate fully" with the Secretary General of the United Nations and the chairman of the Organization of African Unity "in their efforts aimed at an early settlement of the question of Western Sahara."

672 (1990) Israel
Reiterates calls for Israel to abide by provisions of the Fourth Geneva Convention in the occupied Arab territories.

673 (1990) Israel
Insists that Israel come into compliance with resolution 672.

681 (1990) Israel
Reiterates call on Israel to abide by Fourth Geneva Convention in the occupied Arab territories.

690 (1991) Morocco
Calls upon both parties to cooperate fully with the Secretary General in implementing a referendum on the fate of the territory.

694 (1991) Morocco
Reiterates that Israel "must refrain from deporting any Palestinian civilian from the occupied territories and ensure the safe and immediate return of all those deported."

716 (1991) Morocco
Reaffirms previous resolutions on Cyprus.

725 (1991) Morocco
"Calls upon the two parties to cooperate fully in the settlement plan."

726 (1992) Israel
Reiterates calls on Israel to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention and to cease its practice of deportations from occupied Arab territories.

799 (1992) Israel
"Reaffirms applicability of Fourth Geneva Convention…to all Palestinian territories occupied by Israel since 1967, including Jerusalem, and affirms that deportation of civilians constitutes a contravention of its obligations under the Convention."

807 (1993) Croatia
Demands return of heavy weapons seized from UN storage areas.

809 (1992) Morocco
Reiterates call to cooperate with the peace settlement plan, particularly regarding voter eligibility for referendum.

815 (1993) Croatia
Reaffirms UNSC resolution 807.

822 (1993) Armenia
Calls for Armenia to implement the "immediate withdrawal of all occupying forces from the Kelbadjar district and other recently occupied areas of Azerbaijan."

853 (1993) Armenia
Demands "complete and unconditional withdrawal of the occupying forces" from Azerbaijani territory.

874 (1993) Armenia
Reiterates calls for withdrawal of occupation forces.

884 (1993) Armenia
Calls on Armenia to use its influence to force compliance by Armenian militias to previous resolutions and to withdraw its remaining occupation forces.

896 (1994) Russia
"Calls upon all concerned to respect the sovereignty and territorial integrity of the Republic of Georgia."

904 (1994) Israel
Calls upon Israel, as the occupying power, "to take and implement measures, inter alia, confiscation of arms, with the aim of preventing illegal acts of violence by settlers."

973 (1995) Morocco
Reiterates the need for cooperation with United Nations and expediting referendum on the fate of Western Sahara.

995 (1995) Morocco
Calls for "genuine cooperation" with UN efforts to move forward with a referendum.

1002 (1995) Morocco
Reiteration of call for "genuine cooperation" with UN efforts.

1009 (1995) Croatia
Demands that Croatia "respect fully the rights of the local Serb population to remain, leave, or return in safety."

1017 (1995) Morocco
Reiterates the call for "genuine cooperation" with UN efforts and to cease "procrastinating actions which could further delay the referendum."

1033 (1995) Morocco
Reiterates call for "genuine cooperation" with UN efforts.

1044 (1996) Sudan
Calls upon Sudan to extradite to Ethiopia for prosecution three suspects in an assassination attempt of visiting Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak and to cease its support for sanctuary and offering of sanctuary to terrorists.

1054 (1996) Sudan
Demands that Sudan come into compliance with UNSC resolution 1044.

1056 (1996) Morocco
Calls for the release of political prisoners from occupied Western Sahara.

1070 (1996) Sudan
Reiterates demands to comply with 1044 and 1054.

1073 (1996) Israel
"Calls on the safety and security of Palestinian civilians to be ensured."

1079 (1996) Croatia
Reaffirms right of return for Serbian refugees to Croatia.

1092 (1996) Turkey/Cyprus
Calls for a reduction of foreign troops in Cyprus as the first step toward a total withdrawal troops as well as a reduction in military spending.

1117 (1997) Turkey/Cyprus
Reiterates call for a reduction of foreign troops in Cyprus as the first step toward a total withdrawal troops and reduction in military spending.

1120 (1997) Croatia
Reaffirms right of return for Serbian refugees to Croatia and calls on Croatia to change certain policies that obstruct this right, and to treat its citizens equally regardless of ethnic origin.

1145 (1997) Croatia
Reiterates Croatian responsibility in supporting the political and economic rights of its people regardless of ethnic origin.

1172 (1998) India, Pakistan
Calls upon India and Pakistan to cease their development of nuclear weapons and ballistic missiles.

1178 (1998) Turkey/Cyprus
Reiterates call for a substantial reduction of foreign troops and reduction in military spending.

1185 (1998) Morocco
Calls for the lifting of restrictions of movement by aircraft of UN peacekeeping force.

1215 (1998) Morocco
Urges Morocco to promptly sign a "status of forces agreement."

1217 (1998) Turkey/Cyprus
Reiterates call for a substantial reduction of foreign troops and reduction in military spending.

1251 (1999) Turkey/Cyprus
Reiterates call for a substantial reduction of foreign troops and reduction in military spending.

1264 (1999) Indonesia
Calls on Indonesia to provide safe return for refugees and punish those for acts of violence during and after the referendum campaign.

1272 (1999) Indonesia
Stresses the need for Indonesia to provide for the safe return for refugees and maintain the civilian and humanitarian character of refugee camps.

1283 (1999) Turkey/Cyprus
Reiterates UNSC resolution 1251.

1303 (2000) Turkey/Cyprus
Reiterates UNSC resolutions 1283 and 1251.

1319 (2000) Indonesia
Insists that Indonesia "take immediate additional steps, in fulfillment of its responsibilities, to disarm and disband the militia immediately, restore law and order in the affected areas of West Timor, ensure safety and security in the refugee camps and for humanitarian workers, and prevent incursions into East Timor." Stresses that those guilty of attacks on international personnel be brought to justice and reiterates the need to provide safe return for refugees who wish to repatriate and provide resettlement for those wishing to stay in Indonesia.

1322 (2000) Israel
Calls upon Israel to scrupulously abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention regarding the responsibilities of occupying power.

1331 (2000) Turkey/Cyprus
Reiterates UNSC resolution 1251 and subsequent resolutions.

1338 (2001) Indonesia
Calls for Indonesian cooperation with the UN and other international agencies in the fulfillment of UNSC resolution 1319.

1359 (2001) Morocco
Calls on the parties to "abide by their obligations under international humanitarian law to release without further delay all those held since the start of the conflict."

1384 (2001) Turkey/Cyprus
Reiterates 1251 and all relevant resolutions on Cyprus.

1402 (2002) Israel
Calls for Israel to withdraw from Palestinian cities.

1403 (2002) Israel
Demands that Israel go through with "the implementation of its resolution 1402, without delay."

1405 (2002) Israel
Calls for UN inspectors to investigate civilian deaths during an Israeli assault on the Jenin refugee camp.

1416 (2002) Turkey/Cyprus
Reiterates UNSC resolution 1251 and all relevant resolutions on Cyprus.

1435 (2002) Israel
Calls on Israel to withdraw to positions of September 2000 and end its military activities in and around Ramallah, including the destruction of security and civilian infrastructure.

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=11&ItemID=2417

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[bpilgrim]

39. how will you ask the last man or woman to die for a MISTAKE?

a WAR CRIME

peace

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[Sparkly]

57. You might start by reading the original post here.

Maybe a few newspapers would help, as well.

[Sparkly]

41. No, I don't have a list because

I don't believe there was cause for this war, nor for another based on these changing rationales (WMDs threatening the US... No, it was about UN violations... No, Saddam was bad, had to liberate people...)

"Do not attempt to destroy the US" -- Huh?!

By the way, nobody was ever "taxed to death."

[Name removed]

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[Sparkly]

55. Is this "change the subject" time?

Or do you think Iraq attacked us on 9/11?

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[mzmolly]

92. There sure is, but Saddam was not that threat. The threat you speak of

remains at large, and the number of threats are growing thanks to the War in Iraq.

[Djinn]

106. first it was

give me a list of other nations that defied the UN - done

now it's 9/11??? WTF

[mzmolly]

58. My thoughts were "I want to get who ever is responsible and bring them to

justice." Along with many other thoughts.

Note that wish has not come to conclusion. OSAMA is still at large and we pulled some senior citizen packin a 45 out of a spider hole in his place. The irony is people like you fell for it.

The bait and switch (Saddam for Osama) didn't work on me.

[Name removed]

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[mzmolly]

78. Well I would like it if they did. I think we'd have him by now had Bush

not sent us on a wild goose chase in Iraq. Imagine if we'd spent the $$ on getting Osama that we are spending in Iraq. Surely we'd all be celebrating his capture, and Bushie boy would be kicking Kerry's arse in the polls.

Too bad Bush chose to make a buck in Iraq instead.

[mzmolly]

42. LOL

do not attempt to destroy the US

I will be working to redeem the US by voting for John Kerry. I suggest you do the same.

[Name removed]

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[Djinn]

102. do you really think

that when the next dictator takes over (and if you honestly beleive the US will allow a fully sovereign and democrat government in Iraq you're either mad or have little grasp of history - ask some Iranians or Chileans what the US opinion of democracy is) that any Iraqi will differentiate much between THIS brutality and the OLD brutality

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[Sparkly]

17. Saddam killed his own people

So we killed more of his own people -- it's okay when we do it.

Saddam tortured people in Abu Ghraib, so we tortured people in Abu Ghraib -- it's okay when we do it.

Meanwhile, hundreds of our own people were killed, the Arab world is united against us, Iraq is a new haven for terrorists to organize, and it only cost how many billions of dollars so far?

Make that list! We've got more dictators to depose!

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[mzmolly]

40. When will Bush and Rummy be tried for War Crimes?

????????????????

Your numbers are debatable by the way.

http://www.rense.com/general45/discard.htm
Saddam Is Not The Issue - He's A Discarded Tool

Lest we forget: America killed at least 1.5 million Iraqis via the first gulf war and the subsequent use of sanctions. It is estimated another couple million will die from US DU radiation in years to come. Did Saddam kill that many Iraqis...of course not. And don't forget how he was tricked into invading Kuwait to create a pretext for the first US Gulf War.

The US/CIA created the guy and helped build his Baath Party in the 1970's, and then used him to fight the 8 year Iraq-Iran war from 1980-88 in which over a million died.

Saddam, the dictator, is NOT the real issue; he's now just a piece of propaganda who will be milked in every way imaginable to obfuscate and obscure the economic rape and sell-off of Iraqi national assets - not to mention the gifting of reconstruction contracts - now being personally directed by the one and only James Baker.

Wake up ... smell the coffee.

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[Djinn]

110. no he isn't

"being held on" suggest there have been charges - to the best of my knowledge this isn't the case.

and I doubt that he'll ever be charged because certain uncomfortable questions are bound to arise - "who sold you the bombs" being the first.

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[Sparkly]

65. That's funny

Misled? We didn't invade Iraq on a "mandate from the UN," we didn't invade Iraq because the "people were desiring liberation," and in case you hadn't noticed, we are hardly "welcome" there now.

We invaded Iraq because Bush said Saddam had WMDs that were threatening America. That's the United States of America. Us. Here.

That was a lie, and everything after it has been an excuse.

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[mzmolly]

70. Not sure whether to laugh or cry at this one.

Saddam has killed at least 300,000 of his own people.

And we have killed over 1.5 Million

He tortured people...see the Houston article about the 7 businesmen he cut hands off of. Nudity does not equal torture.

The US has "tortured" and killed innocents in Iraq, so what's your point?

Our own people died for a noble cause. The Iraqi people welcome us.

The Iraqi people *welcome* us? Not exactly. Some do, most don't.

Frankly, I do not mind the money spent in this venture. What I do mind is money wasted on the UN, World Bank, etc. and aid to countries that diss us.

Yes, if there's one thing the right wing loves more than money, it's war. I am certain you don't mind paying for this bullshit death and destruction, but I do.

The point is, we had a clear mandate from the UN and Saddam's flauting of their directives.

You must be joking. The UN stated that we should allow the inspections to continue, Bush refused because he KNEW they would find NOTHING. Don't trash the UN on one hand, and then claim to be their police force on the other hand. Bush snubbed the UN and you know it. The rest of the world is hoping and praying for a John Kerry Presidency.

As for the rest of your propaganda, it's not worthy of a reply.

[charlie]

75. "The Iraqi people welcome us"

Uh-uh. The most recent poll commissioned by the Coalition Authority found that:

"...80 percent of the Iraqis questioned reported a lack of confidence in the Coalition Provisional Authority, and 82 percent said they disapprove of the U.S. and allied militaries in Iraq."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A22403-2004May12.html

[Djinn]

114. if anyone needed proof that propaganda works!

"Saddam has killed at least 300,000 of his own people."

I assume you're referring to the mass graves found that "prooves" this - the graves that contained the remains of Iran/Iraq war victims - you could certainly argue that boys sent to fight a stupid war ARE killed by their leaders but I doubt Cheney/Rumsfeld/Bush (and many Democrats) et al will come to THAT party.

"He tortured people...he cut hands off of. Nudity does not equal torture."

How/Why do you think those prisoners GOT naked - the soldiers just asked them and they said "yeah why not" or do you think maybe they were threatened with beatings and getting shot?

Do you think RAPE qualifies as torture- or do you think that an iraqi woman surrounded by US soldiers pointing guns at her just got all horny and decided she wanted to have sex with them all?

[mzmolly]

22. Warning: Graphic Photo

Gosh have you heard about the SEVERED LIMBS OF INNOCENT CHILDREN?

WTF? Stop reading Newsmax and get a clue.

Are you saying that Saddam was responsible for all that happened in Iraq under his command? If so, do you hold Bush to that same standard?

http://www.robert-fisk.com/iraqwarvictims_mar2003.htm

THIS IS NOT MY VERSION OF CHRISTIANITY! Is it yours?



GO SELL YOUR WAR SOMEWHERE ELSE!

Bush is responsible for this war, and it is in NO WAY CHRISTIAN!

Further, it merits more than a comparison to a nude ass. It's a child without limbs who may not be alive DO TO YOUR SO CALLED COMPASSION.

Here's more if you dare to take responsibility for the war you support.

http://www.robert-fisk.com/iraqwarvictims_page1.htm

[mhr]

25. If This Was Bush's Daughter, The Freepers Would Be Apoplectic!

Oh, but innocent little brown girls dying is OK.

Wealthy white girls must be protected at all costs.

Freepers, the lot of you are such hypocrites!

Save your flames!

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[mzmolly]

34. It's "Perpetuate" - and you are the simpleton here.

I mean, bionic hands? C'mon ... :eyes:

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[mhr]

38. Simpleton Freepers Only Understand Simple Talking Points

The message is tailored for the intellectually challenged.

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[mhr]

98. With Freepers? You Must Be Kidding! Sarcasm On Purpose.

eom

[Sparkly]

4. True! They change the argument...

They say the fall of Baghdad is proof the opposition was wrong, as if we were saying, "We can't invade Iraq, we'll never be able to take Baghdad!" That wasn't the protest at all.

They did the same thing when Saddam was found. "See?" As if we'd all been saying, "This is a failure because we don't have Saddam! Where's Saddam? We must find Saddam!" when nobody was saying that.

[mzmolly]

13. Yes indeed they do.

They change the argument

Today they are saying "do you suggest we ignore the plight of the Iraqi people..." :eyes:

Funny how that story keeps a changin' ain't it?

[bluestateguy]

5. Now we are the ones saying "we told you so"

And those are four words I LOVE saying, especially to arrogant people.

[mhr]

8. Oh, But The Freepers Were Right Because They Thrive By Seeing Death!

We progressives are just not down with the program.

eom

[FlemingsGhost]

44. The Tortured Iraqi War Supporter (for "notimetoloose.")

We tried to tell them: Invading Iraq was going to prove to be a
disastrous mistake. We were told to, "sit down, shut up and support the
Commander-in-Chief." "Traitors" and "Saddam-lovers," we were called.
Well, it turns out, we were right, they were wrong. Liberals! And deep inside, it must be eating away at them. A humiliation worthy of anything dreamed up in an Iraqi prison.

Oh, they feel it all right. The deflection, parsing of words and
ridiculous quibbling displayed by the right-wing talking heads is
evidence of denial. The childish antics of some of the invasion's most
ardent supporters, illustrate the fact that these folks are no longer
even attempting to rationally communicate their point of view. Diversion and lashing out is all they have left. Both are rooted in anger and fear. Reality no longer jibes with the deluded fantasy they have created to define all that is good in the world. George Bush is not the "Second Coming." The United States is far from perfect. Things fall apart...

Too many human beings are dead or suffering to say, "I told you so." I
personally get no satisfaction from writing the words. Besides, we will
all be exposed to the fallout of shame brought on by this debacle.
Perhaps that's the common experience that will bring us together, so
that we can get on with the business of mending the soul of this once
great nation.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[NMDemDist2]

71. sure, lets find the common ground

9-11

osama bin laden

not saddam

we never should have gone to Iraq

are you with me?

[Name removed]

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[NMDemDist2]

77. what? that didn't make sense what opportunity? you didn't answer my

question at all

do we have common ground re: Osama?

[Name removed]

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[NMDemDist2]

93. OK let's start there then

Cryptic --- What is cryptic? 9-11?

3000 dead ---- OK that must be 9-11

happy Iraqi's igorned ---- I haven't seen many happy Iraqis, I have seen reports of bombed weddings, dead children, humiliated men, women forced to leave their husbands and homes behind in order to escape Fallujah, people in a desert with electricity that only works half the time

torture true as it really is--- torture is torture, it doesn't matter who does it, it's wrong. There is no such thing as "comparative pain"

are you with me?-- I' don't know, it would help if you were a wee bit clearer in your responses

[mzmolly]

74. Common Ground?

Sure, let's all vote for John Kerry, deal?
Unless you have another suggestion?

What do you see as common ground here with the people at DU?

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[mzmolly]

82. Nope, we've got lots of Nader supporters here.

;)

Welcome to DU by the way. I suspect your young and have learned a thing or two here ?

It's rough at first, but stick around and perhaps you'll see the light before 11/04. :hi:

Suggested reading:

"Blinded By the Right"

"Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them-A Fair And Balanced Look At The Right." *This book converted Howard Stern, so there's hope for you yet*

[Name removed]

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[mzmolly]

91. Cath, I am certain if you remain respectful the venue will remain

open. But, if you are a Bush supporter there are other venues for your conversations as this is a discussion board for Democrats and Progressives ok?

Peace :hi:

[Name removed]

81. Deleted message

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[NMDemDist2]

83. so you mean you don't think the war in Iraq is good

since we are killing children and bombing weddings then right?

[Name removed]

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[NMDemDist2]

86. i didn't contradict myself at all

i think the was in Iraq is NOT good,

I think we should have found Osama and not spent our troops and our treasure on Saddam edit to add Do You?

I think we need new leadership

no contradictions there I can see

[Name removed]

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[NMDemDist2]

90. i was going to start with some common ground

what we can agree on. when I find a disagreement then I can bring out the arguments. So far though you haven't acknowledged a starting point.

[mzmolly]

88. Do share what's merciful, loving and giving about war?

eom

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[NMDemDist2]

96. then explain please how Bush "has done a fine job" n/t

[Name removed]

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[NMDemDist2]

99. that's it? You really think Bush had much to do with that?

any person in the Oval Office could have done as much as he did. And he hasn't done much IMO

Most states haven't received the funds they were promised to upgrade the "first responders" in equipment and training
http://homelandsecurity.house.gov/release.cfm?id=181

He hasn't done anything to secure our ports
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/wnt/Primetime/sept11_uranium030910.html

He has cut the budget for air marshals and airport security personnel
http://www.poe-news.com/stories.php?poeurlid=24881

He has send our National Guard to Iraq instead of keeping them here where they are supposed to be, hence the name "National Guard"

[mzmolly]

101. He failed us on 9/11 F-A-I-L-E-D!

3000 Dead BECAUSE OF HIS FAILURES!

They were warned, and he went on vacation. That's a success?

[NMDemDist2]

107. Molly, I think it's you and me singing to the choir ROFL n/t

[mzmolly]

109. He he. Well it was fun.

One Freeper down, ??? to go! ;)

[mzmolly]

100. Bonhoffer was for killing Hitler. Not bombing Iraq.

But, I spose when there are no credible *living* people that support the war, resurrecting the dead is apropos?

G'Night

I really must be gone. zzzzzzz.

Peace out. :hi:

[mzmolly]

105. Well folks, notimetolose is no longer....

So long Cath. :hi:

Continue lurking, perhaps you'll learn the truth one day.

[NMDemDist2]

108. now that i have a star can I see dead (tombstoned) people too?

if so where???? hehehehehe

and I really like where first she said i contradicted my self, then when that didn't work called me dogmatic ROFL

[mzmolly]

111. Click on the user profile...in one of her posts...

< This little guy here...

I think there is another way too, but after a moment of silence, I decided to check it out LOL.

[NMDemDist2]

112. yes i figured that out after i posted but....

it was so funny where first she said i contradicted my self, then when that didn't work called me dogmatic ROFL

[mzmolly]

113. Yes amazing we were able to follow that RW drivel?

When logic fails, there is always drivel...

[NMDemDist2]

115. Hi fives for the ladies (us) woo hoo !!!! n/t

[mzmolly]

116. Have a great night Azdem. We'll catch ya round these parts ...

High five to you too! :)