The torture pix "Thumbs Up" and Buddy Jesus? WTF? Coincidence?

[hexola]

Can somebody enlighten me about "Buddy Jesus"? Am I reaching here?

[whistle]

1. Is the Buddy Jesus somewhere in downtown PA?

...That sure looks like the outside of a church in Harrisburg PA. Not to offend anyone in Pennsylvania, but isn't that where the National Guard Reserve Unit that the prison guards who committed the abuses was from?

[PittPoliSci]

5. it was in pittsburgh i believe...

not entirely sure though.

the guy who is one of the abuse guys lives in uniontown, about 40 minutes away from downtown pittsburgh. His family has been on the news almost everynight since it happened, THEY'RE INSANE. go figure.

[Fenris]

2. Kevin Smith abuses Iraqis?

[fishnfla]

3. "thumbs up" used to be considered an obscene gesture in Iraq

but now is accepted, maybe as a joke,

remember the Lance Bpl Bordreuax (sp) pic? Thumbs up all around

[MisterP]

6. I remember Wolfowitz getting all excited about

getting thumbs-up from hundreds of Iraqis as he paraded through Baghdad

[TexasMexican]

4. New Conspiracy Theory: Sivits is Buddy Christ with a trim.

[Merlin]

7. Where the hell is Bishop Carlin when we need him to explain all this.

Probably talking to the invisible man who lives in the sky...
...and who needs money; lots and lots of money.

[hexola]

8. Are there any "torture" scenes in Dogma?

I haven't seen the film...

[daleo]

9. I recall bumper stickers with an index finger pointing upwards

I think it was called "one way Jesus" or "one way with Jesus". My brother bought a used car that had one, which was quite amusing, as he was as far from the bumper sticker as could be reasonably imagined.

This was quite a while back. I don't know if Graner and others are alluding to this with their hand gestures or not.

[DoNotRefill]

10. I want Buddy Jesus...

for my front yard.

[Radical Activist]

11. LOL

Holy Cow that is the funniest thing I've seen all week. I'm sure everyone committing the torture was a good christian. Bush did say this was a crusade afterall.

[hexola]

12. am kick

kick

[hexola]

13. am kick

kick

[Hubert Flottz]

14. We'll for Christ's Snakes!

I believe you have hit on it! Rush will say the guards were just trying to bless the heathen terra-ists!

[ProdigalJunkMail]

15. yes, you are reaching

and apparently into a very large vat of sheer stupidity. Please tell me that this is just a plug for Dogma...which by the way is a terribly funny movie </my_plug_for_Dogma>

theProdigal

[hexola]

16. No - I'm very serious - it looks like the same gesture to me...

Initially there was speculation that this was just "thumbs up" - supposedly a the equivalent of giving the middle finger. Then another DU'er speculated that Lyddie was pointing a pretend machine gun.

If it were only thumbs up in the pictures I wouldn't post...

They are using 2 distinct gestures at once, the point and the thumbs up...this can't be a coinciendece and must mean something.

I then stumbled upon the Buddy Jesus image...and was struck that he is giving the exact same point+thumbs up...

As far as I'm concerned - it's worth some investigation...

Perhaps I'll rent Dogma...

But - is the Buddy Jesus image used by Christians? They make dashboard statues...

[ProdigalJunkMail]

22. no, buddy jesus was a bit of a farce used in Dogma

the whole movie is one big poke in the eye at Christian dogma, for that matter. This actually can and most likely is a coincidence. I can't recall ever seeing that gesture used to mean anything other than, 'hey look...i'm a real dork making an ass out of myself for the whole world to see.'

And Dogma is worth the rental fee...

theProdigal

[hexola]

23. Besides the Buddy Jesus statue - is the gesture used in the film?

[ProdigalJunkMail]

24. not that i remember

you are really barking up the wrong tree on this one...Dogma really couldn't have less to do with any of this. Rent the movie and watch it first. I doubt you would have any questions after that...

theProdigal

[hexola]

25. I think I'm on to something...check post #17

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=1630891&mesg_id=1632110&page=

Those images are from a google search for "Buddy Jesus"

Image 1 : Obvious military reference

Image 2 : titled "buddy2.jpg"

Image 3 : titled "buddybride.jpg"

2 and 3 prove that there is some pop-culture awareness of the gesture...and that people use it...

I have sent the Buddy Jesus image to fundy buddy of mine...I wouldn't be suprised if certain elements of Christianity like the Buddy Jesus idea and use the image to relate to youth...

[ProdigalJunkMail]

28. your search will end in frustration

sorry you are so fired up about this one...I am still hoping you are joking. I am a fundy by most people's definition and I am sorry to tell you that the Buddy Christ was never seen prior to Dogma and is not used in any Christian circles I know of...

theProdigal

[hexola]

29. Perhaps...but I'm not joking...

I understand that Buddy was created for the Dogma movie...I am not suggesting he existed prior...

Has anyone seen this specific combo gesture (thumbs up + point) used anywhere else...?

Perhaps every Humvee has a plastic Buddy Jesus on the dash?

I find this to be a more credible connection that the person who thought she was pointing a machine gun...

[tom_paine]

31. Dogma rocks!

"I figured (Sheridan) would be the kind of asshole who'd bless his golf clubs..."

Kevin Smith :yourock:

[ProdigalJunkMail]

33. I love that movie!

and I am a fundy whacko*!

theProdigal

*Terminology used in the creation of this post was licensed, free of charge, from people who have called me such...

edited for British spelling mistake

[hexola]

17. Here are a few more examples of the Buddy gesture being used....

The point is - it seems to be a widely known gesture...

Note sure about the "beatitude" graphic...who made that one...Lyddie?

[Atman]

32. Hex, your pics only show "thumbs up."

So what. We all know about "thumbs up." The Buddy Jesus gesture is NOT just a thumbs up. One hand points, the other is the thumbs up.

I admit, I had never thought about the connection. I only saw Dogma once. But...I did notice immediately that the hand gestures in the photos were rather odd. Not once, twice, but used over and over again, by different people. Taken in context, we are in a holy war. They stripped the guys naked and humiliated them in sorts of ways they knew to be highly offensive to muslims. I'd bet having "Buddy Jesus" give you the thumbs up while you're naked and being fellated by one of your cellmates while American soldiers photograph you...hell, that's gotta mean SOMETHING!

[hexola]

34. Google images link : in context they are labled as "Buddy Jesus"

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&edition=us&q=Buddy+Jesus&btnG=Search

They are both on the first page of results...and refer to the pose as the Buddy Jesus...even though they arent doing right...

[KoKo]

18. Hexola, I live in NC where there are some RW Fundies, but I've not seen

this "Buddy Jesus." I live in a city though and maybe it's out in the rural areas. Where did you find the pix of this?

I think it's worth investigating though, because the hand gestures of this "Buddy" sure look to be the same as the "torturers" were giving the Iraqi's and many of us here on DU thought something was odd about those hand gestures when we saw them.

When DU'ers think something is "odd" it usually means that our judgement is correct and something more is there than is apparent. Not that we are always correct, but even some of our more :tinfoilhat: seeming questions are coming true in this most bizarre time with that idiot in charge.

"Buddy Jesus." Sigh. What's next...

[hexola]

19. I actually stumbled on to Buddy Jesus in a DUer's sig...!!!

Last night I noticed a DU'er who had the Buddy Jesus in his sig...and I could'nt help but notice the similarity...(the DU'er hadn't noticed)

The rest of the images are from Google Images -search "Buddy Christ"

I have sent the images to one of my fundy Christian friends for his take...

[hexola]

20. pre-lunch kick...

...

[atre]

21. Outside of the US

"Thumbs up" is the universal greeting for Americans.

[bhunt70]

26. I think the thumbs up and pointing is something that pre-dates

Buddy Jesus, Dogma, etc...

I don't think there is a correlation between the two.

[hexola]

27. Where have you seen it before?

[bhunt70]

36. any where, Im sure you can drum up pictures

of people with their thumbs up and pointing for quite a while.

I don't see how something like giving the thumbs up and pointing with the other hand is really that big of a deal.

[hexola]

37. I did - and they all refer to Buddy Jesus...

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&edition=us&q=Buddy+Jesus&btnG=Search

It may not be a big deal - and the explanation may be very bening...maybe all the soldiers had watched "Dogma" that night...?

Or maybe it is just a coincidence...

[stilladeaniac]

30. I've never seen this combo of hand gestures before....

It's a conspiracy!

[Elidor]

35. Someday, Buddy Jesus is gonna be up for sale on eBay...

And I'm gonna bid a year's wages. That is the coolest fucking statue! I've coveted it ever since I saw Dogma. I want it. I want it. I want it...