http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5058535/PRIEST: In a post-9/11 war on terror, there‘s a new urgency to extract intelligence from suspected terrorists. Even top administration officials hint that past restrictions no longer apply.
COFER BLACK, COUNTERTERRORISM COORDINATOR, STATE DEPARTMENT: This is a very highly classified area. But I have to say that all you need to know, there was a before 9/11 and there was an after 9/11. After 9/11, the gloves come off.
PRIEST: Today‘s techniques, approved at the highest level, include food and sleep deprivation, constant noise, and stressful physical positions. Those who cooperate are rewarded, hot baths and meals, rest and sometimes money. But uncooperative suspected terrorists are sometimes secretly kidnapped or—quote—“rendered” for harsh interrogations to other countries like Egypt, Jordan, and Morocco.
BLANTON: So the problem that you get into, when the CIA is there with both feet and with boots on, is the same problem we saw in Vietnam. Our allies put people in tiger cages. And we could say, oh, it wasn‘t us. But was it? We were given the orders. We were doing the training. They knew what we wanted, which was information out of these people. So where does the responsibility lie?
PRIEST: They don‘t go to court. They never see a lawyer. They just disappear. That‘s the point.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MATTHEWS: So, Dana, what we‘re seeing in all these horrible pictures the last couple weeks is not the worst. Some of these people are being shipped off to third countries, where they have absolutely no scruples about what to do with prisoners.
PRIEST: That‘s right. And that‘s at the CIA‘s hands. Abu Ghraib, the big question there is, did they take the leeway given to the CIA to be harsher with terrorists and water it down, but use it in the military at Abu Ghraib?
MATTHEWS: So what actually you‘re saying is, this is the tip of the iceberg, to use an old cliche. Only this time, we‘re seeing a softer treatment. So the guys with crap all over their backs, the guys being asked to do all these ridiculous things sexually, all that‘s nothing compared to what‘s being done by the third countries we‘re shipping these guys off to.
PRIEST: Which, unless Congress asks, we will never know. These people leave. They disappear.
MATTHEWS: But aren‘t they sworn as members of the CIA to lie? And if Congress calls them in and say, did you ever ship a guy to Egypt or to some horrible Arab country in the middle of nowhere where they‘ll do anything, they‘ll say no?
PRIEST: No. In fact, they tell Congress. They tell a very small number of members of Congress on the Intelligence Committee what they‘re could doing. Those people know.
MATTHEWS: How many people do you think have disappeared so far and have been killed by us, by rendering, it is called?
PRIEST: It is impossible to tell, but there are dozens.
(CROSSTALK)
MATTHEWS: And what‘s the purpose of all this? Is it to get intel or to kill people?
PRIEST: It‘s to get intel by using very harsh techniques that the CIA itself will not use. So they send them to Egypt, which has a well-documented human rights abuse problem, when they can no longer do anything with them.