ten commandments must go...and go now!!!

[scarface2004]

hey we should set it up so anybody who wants to can smack it with a sledge hammer for $1!!!

[CO Liberal]

1. And Sell the Fragments on eBay

With the proceeds used to reimburse the State of Alabama for the costs incurred by their asshole Chief Justice.

[Brian Sweat]

74. No, you fool

We need to build an guilded box to carry the fragments in. Then we will have a powerful weapon with which to smite our enemies. Didn't you see "Raiders of the Lost Arc?"


Man, what I wouldn't pay to see a good old-fashioned smiting.

[Nobody]

2. One dollar for 3 whacks!

That sounds like the sound of the church being forcibly separated from the state.

[Hippo_Tron]

3. Don't we have better things to worry about

I'm sorry but whether the chief justice is an asshole or not I think he has the right to decorate the building how he chooses being that he is the chief justice. Granted the pro ten commandments rally I saw on C-SPAN consisted of some VERY scary people but still, nobody should be making a big deal over this because it is not a big deal.

[Booberdawg]

4. He is under court order to remove it

He is not above the law. Not only should it be removed but he should be sitting in jail.

[scarface2004]

5. you must have taken a wrong turn fella....

there is something very wrong and we should worry about it. this punk is a supreme court justice. he should be completely impartial when it comes to administering justice, not foaming at the mouth about some 'moral foundation' of the law and other such moronic blathering.

the ten c's belong in a synagogue...not in a public courthouse..the ten c's have absolutely nothing to do with the law in 'bama (or anyplace else)!!

[BigDaddyLove]

6. The Ten Commandments.........

may not belong in a public courthouse, but if more people actually took it's advice and followed a few of it's "thou shall nots", we might all get along a little better.

[artr2]

8. IN YOUR OPINION

NT

[BigDaddyLove]

53. Damn right it's my opinion. You got a problem wrong with................

not killing, or not stealing, or not coveting the wife or the house of a neighbor etc., etc.?

What's wrong with this advice? Is it somehow faulty? Or is it bad simply because it comes from the BIG BAD BIBLE?

[ieoeja]

55. Well, I dunno.

If you'd seen my neighbor's wife....

[WillyT]

64. Heh... Good One !!!

:evilgrin:

[Walt Starr]

56. Most of the decalogue can be simply dismissed

5 of 10 are of no use whatsoever as they are strictly useless.

Coveting is the basis of capitalism, damn straight I covet and coveting keeps the economy flowing.

Adultery, Pshah! I don't give a crap about it.

So how much of this crap is left?

[Brian Sweat]

77. George Carlin on the Ten Commandments.

The Ten Commandments are another way to keep people in line, just other laws.What happened was that some big religious juggernauts and political figures got together, and put together ten commandments. Not nine, not eleven, but ten. Why ten? Because that it is an official number. It is the basis for all numbers; the decimal system, a decade, Top Ten Movies, Top Ten Most Wanted List. If they would have made nine commandments, then people wouldn't have believed them, so in fact- the Ten Commandments were a marketing scheme. They were made to fool the ignorant, because if anybody thought for themselves, then the Christian religion, or any religion, wouldn't be in existence.

I think we can change the Ten Commandments to a short list of three commandments.

Lets look at the first four commandments,

"I am the Lord thy God.... Thou shall have no other gods before me."

"Thou shall not make unto thee any graven images.... Thou shall not bow down thyself to them."

"Thou shall not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain."

"Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy."

Those were made to scare you, don't they sound scary? Spooky..ooh..throw those suckers out.

We are down to a list of 6 commandments.

Lets look the fifth commandment

"Honor thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long."

That one is complete bs. Respect and obedience are to be earned, not forced. Some parents deserve respect and obedience, some of them don't. So lets throw this commandment out.

We are down to a list of 5 commandments

The sixth commandment

"Thou shall not kill."

This commandment is bs in religion. People die every day in the name of God. "God" kills all animals, humans, and the Earth. Most religions, if not all, have a religious background. So you are not allowed to kill unless they believe in a different invisible man than you, or worship him different,

Now there are 4 commandments left.

Lets add some commandments together

"Thou shall not commit adultery"

"Thou shall not steal."

We can add these two together because they have the basic principle of honesty. So lets make it a positive commandment and make it "Thou shall be honest and faithful"

We have a list of 3 commandments left

Lets look at some others.

"Thou shall not bear false witness against thy neighbor."

This one is bs. America is based on this. Somebody sees something of their neighbors, and wants it himself, so he goes out and buys it. This can be an article of clothing, a piece for entertainment, or whatever. This makes our economy fatter.

So throw that one out.

Lets look at the last commandment

"Thou shall not covet they neighbor's house."

This one goes along with the honesty commandment so lets add them together.

So now we have two commandments.

"Thou shall not kill unless somebody believes in something that you don't"

and "Thou shall be honest and faithful".

Moses could have put them in his pocket and read it off to the people and it
wouldn't have been so hypocritical to faith.

But lets add in one more commandment

"Keep thy religion to thyself."

[goddess40]

69. Honor you mother and father is the one I have trouble with

sometimes they don't deserve to be honored and people live their lives torn up trying to honor an abuser or molester.

[Liberal_as_Fuck]

14. IN YOUR OPINION

N/T

[BigDaddyLove]

54. You should have simply said "Ditto".......

as I'm sure it would have made you feel more comfortable.

[Iluvleiberman]

16. So he must throw out all his views?

Become sanitized?

[Skittles]

7. DEAR GOD

HE IS A JUDGE WHO IS BREAKING THE F***ING LAW AND YOU DON'T THINK THAT'S A BIG DEAL ?????????

[ima_sinnic]

9. hello? is anybody home?

so you think a judge who is partial to fundie Christians isn't a big deal? you think subverting the Constitution, the law of the land, in official capacity as a judge entrusted with interpreting the letter and spirit of the law isn't a big deal? No the chief justice does NOT have the right to decorate the building "how he chooses." That building belongs to the people of Alabama--even the atheists, Muslims, Shikhs, Buddhists, pantheists, Gaiaists, satanists and everybody the heck else.

[Hippo_Tron]

10. I can't help the fact that he's partial to fundie Christians

Nor can I prove it nor can I get him removed from office, which believe me I would love to do just as much as any of you. The point is that it's a f***ing statue, just because a statue is sitting there doesn't mean that we are breaking the seperation of church and satate. Breaking the seperation of church and state would be something like Catholic Bishops get automatic seats in congress. If the supreme court decides to stick a statue of the ten commandments in THEIR building then how is that different if the president decided he wanted to stick a statue of the ten commandments in the west wing of the white house. I somehow doubt that there would be a court case as to whether they can be there or not.

[greekspeak]

11. Are you high?

You say:

"The point is that it's a f***ing statue, just because a statue is sitting there doesn't mean that we are breaking the seperation of church and satate."

Its not just a "f***ing statue." It is a deliberate attempt by a government official to favor one religion over another in a government setting. As intergal as it is to American freedom, the seperation of church and state is precarious. This judge does nothing but flaunt that seperation.

[Hippo_Tron]

20. Since...

The Ten Commandments are part of MANY religions I don't see how he is favoring ONE religion over the other.

[redeye]

40. No...

...only of some Christian sects. Jews believe not only in the ten commandments but also in the hundreds of commandments outlined in Leviticus, and many Christian sects consider the Ten Commandments as obsolete, having been replaced by Jesus' commandments.

Moore not only favors Christianity over Wiccanism/Islam/Buddhism and also Protestantism over Catholicism (Protestants emphasize the OT more than Catholics), but also religion over lack thereof.

[FireHeart]

75. Tell ya what...

When that asshole allows the Wiccan Rede to be published in stone alongside his precious commandments, then I'd say--go for it.

But you won't see that, now, would you?

[ProudGerman]

12. Dude, get a clue

What is Commandment number one?

After you tell me that, explain to me how that one has any business being anywhere inside a building that represents justice and liberty? Tell me how having that sitting in a courthouse can work with our seperation clause in the First Amendment (the most important amendment)

[Hippo_Tron]

15. It's simple

Like I said, the justices can put whatever statues they want in THEIR building. The United States Supreme Court needs to be concerned with other things (like how Bush is depriving suspected terrorists of their constitutional rights) than how some ass-hole justice decides to decorate their building. BTW those of you who say it isn't the justices building but the peoples' building, well aren't state judges elected? If they elect this guy then they should live with what he decides to do.

[ProudGerman]

25. But its not their building

It doesn't belong to them, it belongs to the citizens of Alabama.

on edit, forgot to add:

Yes, they are elected. Elected to serve us, key word being serve. The White House doesn't belong to chimpy, the Supreme Court building doesn't belong to the Justices. The justice, or any other elected official are not above the law, nor are they the embodiment of the law. They are mearly instruments of the law. Having "I am the Lord, thy god" on a monument in an official government building basically makes it an official statement. It sitting in a goverment building means the government approves, and supports it.

[Hippo_Tron]

34. And if he gets re-elected

A majority of the people in Alabama must think he's doing a darn good job of serving them. Sure the Whte House doesn't belong to chimpy but do we have the white house interior decorators create design plans for the oval office and then put pictures of them on the ballot and have people vote for which one they think is the best? By electing chimpy (or having him appointed) we give him the power to decorate the White House the way he chooses (except the historic parts but that's under a specific jurisdiction). By electing Representatives and Senators we trust their judgement in deocrating their respective wings of the capitol etc... Having "I am the Lord, thy god" on a monument in the Alabama Supreme court building means that the justices support it, not the government. Besides, the seperation of church and state didn't say that government. I Congress were to pass a law replacing mount rushmore with a giant ten commandments statue and Bush were to sign it, that would be the government supporting it.

[jafap]

29. just think of it as bad art

first, just because a statue is there does not mean that the judge is using it as a basis for his rulings. Why do you invest it with more meaning or power than any other statue? Why is your hatred of it any more extremely ridiculous than other people's reverence for it?
You are up in arms about a friggen statue and I have seen about sixteen billion ten commandments threads on DU, and not one GD GD thread about the innocent people on death row in this country. Has there been a thread about Ashcroft's hunt for judges who are giving out less than the maximum sentances?
It can work with our separation clause because a block of marble with letters on it have no more power to change rulings whether the letters are "thou shalt not ..." or "run, if you will, to the top ..."
Finally, it is a little scary to see people of the left get all up in arms about civil disobedience. He's breaking the law - hammer him! Crucify him!
I say chill with the hatred already or redirect it (no, not at me either).

[Hippo_Tron]

33. Well at least somebody gets it...

The Innocent people on Death Row and Ashcroft's hunt for judges who aren't giving out the maximum sentance are the perfect examples for why my first post was "Don't we have better things to worry about". Personally one of the things that scares me the most in this country are the fact that there are innocent people being put to death.

[Iluvleiberman]

19. Block of rock and nothing else n./t

[MassDem4Life]

32. devils advocate here

how is he shredding the Constitution?

Where does the Constitution say anything about the Ten Commandments being in a public building? And to remind you they have been in public buildings for 200 years.

so has the Congressional Chaplain.
The Military Chaplain corps.
Congressional benedictions
and many more

[Az]

37. Its called the 1st ammendment

It seems some lawmakers thought it important enough to make it the first mentioned. We also refer to it as the establishment clause. That is that the government cannot establish a favored religion.

[Brian Sweat]

79. I am an atheists and I do not think a judge who is partial

to fundamentalist Christians is a big deal. What I think is that he is violating the law and the constitution.

I don't think someone should be automatically disqualified from being a judge just because the have extreme religious views. As long as they don't allow their religious views interfere with the law, then there is no reason why a fundamentalist southern baptists or a wiccan should not be allowed to be a judge.

I would probably be hessitant to appoint a fundamentalist if I were in the position to appoint judges, but that doesn't mean they don't have the right to be judges.

[Az]

36. Its not his building

Its the people's building. He just gets to work in it. The people are neither christian nor jewish. The people are neither theist nor atheist. The people are all these things and the buildings that represent them cannot favor one subset of people over another.

Roy Moore has been shoving religion down peoples throats under the guise of the law for years now. This is just his latest game. It is simply part of the religious rights attempt to take away from the people their freedom of thought and religion.

[Hippo_Tron]

38. I explained this "its not his building" thing already

n/t

[Az]

39. Badly

He is not the owner of the building. His job is to uphold the law. He is not the intereor decorator. It is particularly problematic when he starts placing his religious trappings about a building he shares with other justices. This is not his house.

Moore has a history of imposing not only his decorating tips but also prayer and other religious practices. Simply put he is not representing the people. He is representing his religion. This is not the position he was elected to. If he so strongly felt the calling he should persue a carreer in the clergy.

He has consistantly defied the law. He is legislating from the bench. He is leading the charge in the desecularizing of America.

Many people seem to fail to realise that an elected official has responsibilities that prevent them from saying whatever they want to while serving. Away from their job they are as free as anyone else to say what they want. But when they are functioning on their official capacity they are speaking for the people. In those cases they must remain secular in their deportment and cannot favor any religion over another. Placing a 5000 pound monument of the christian 10 commandments (the jewish and catholic set differ) is a very specific violation of the 1st ammendment. Its not just some thing to get over. Its against the law. It violates the spirit of the law. And it is an attempt to overturn the intent of the very foundation of this nation. Heady stuff if you ask me.

[Hippo_Tron]

46. Okay would you agree to this?

How about the people of Alabama take a vote on whether the monument goes or stays. Makes a hell of a lot more sense than some justices in washington deciding.

[sybylla]

50. The founding fathers and

the Alabama Supreme Court have already decided. Tyranny of the majority is not the rule of the land. The Consititution was specificaly amended in 1791 with the bill of rights to protect the rights of the minority from such tyranny when it comes to basic inalienable rights.

edit: spelling

[Az]

52. We are not a mob rule country

We have certain rights which are inalienable. That means you cannot vote them away. If enough people voted to execute you would it be right to do so? Of course not. We are a Democratic Republic. Not a pure democracy. The purpose of the Republic is to protect the minority from the tyrany of the majority.

Consider this. Lets say that 20% of the US does not share the belief in Jesus with the christians. Should that dominant 80% be able to determine what religion the other 20% must be subjected to? George Bush sr once famously said that he believed that atheists should not be citizens. Should by dominant vote 20% of the population have their citizenship revoked because they do not share a belief? Should we rip 10 stars from the flag? Should we evict 10 states from the Union? Should we turn our back on 58 million people?

We are a union. A union of people from different walks and different beliefs. It is what we share in common that allows us to progress. It is our differences that gives this country strength.

[coda]

45. That's about the worst reasoning I've seen so far.

You would hope that a Justice, above all others would be able to distinguish between public property and his own.

It's simply where he works, in a building paid for by the owners (all taxpayers) and his wages paid for by the owners (all taxpayers). He no more has the right than any other citizen.

He is putting himself above others and you think that's a good thing ?...for a judge?

[Hippo_Tron]

47. I never said that was a good thing

I said that the people elect him and give him the power to do so.

[ErasureAcer]

13. can we get "god" off my money next? please! pretty please

It makes me sick.

[Liberal_as_Fuck]

17. I agree, I never really thought about it, but yes it makes me sick too.

Thank, you made me realize something I had not previously acknowledged.

[Iluvleiberman]

21. How would we round up all the money in circulation? n./t

[Liberal_as_Fuck]

24. Wouldn't need to,

just stop printing the crap, and slowly phase them out. And anytime a bank gets money, have them exchange it or the new stuff.

[Iluvleiberman]

26. And make possession of it totally illegal

I love it!

[Sinistrous]

44. Non-sequitur. Try again. n/t

.

[Ein]

31. and the goddamn illuminati symbol

that freaks me out even worse.

[Hippo_Tron]

35. Sure no problem

Just write to your Representative and Senators and ask them to get it off of your money.

[redeye]

41. And why should they listen...

...when atheists have no majority or anything close to it in any state or district?

We need proprotional representation, that said.

Oh yeah, and since "in god we trust" violates the constitution, it's also the Supreme Court's business to strike it down.

[Hippo_Tron]

49. I hope you don't mean

We need proportional representation by religion because that would be probably the most damn obvious violation of first ammendment I've ever heard. Besides why do you think only aheists would vote against having "in god we trust" on the money. I bet there would be pleanty of members of congress who would vote against it, but you're right int he sense that it wouldn't pass.

Now onto the Supreme Court thing... By saying that 9 people should have the power to defy the will of the majority of Americans (if the measure doesn't pass congress and especially if it doesn't pass either house then that would represent a majority of Americans) then you are basically saying that it was okay for the supreme court to defy the will of a majority of Americans and put Bush in office.

[opiate69]

51. Will of the majority??

It is not, nor has it ever been, the job of the Supreme Court to do the bidding of the majority. It's sole job is to interpret the law of the land, as laid out in the constitution.

[Ein]

18. I'm an agnostic

And I wouldn't even smash a depiction of the 10 commandments :)...

[Hippo_Tron]

22. And it's people like you...

Who are living proof that what religious fenatics say about agnostics is bullsh***. Thank-you!

[Liberal_as_Fuck]

23. Please explain hippo,

Is it noble to not want to bash a monument of the ten commandments? Is it civilized, to sympathize with it?

[Ein]

27. I don't know what he's saying

I take it the fundies he mentions hate agnostics for the same reasons they hate atheists: They don't believe in thier god.

The ten commandments is overall a very good set of moral laws. I don't think it should be presented in a place of political significance in a religious sense. But however if someone put it up in a courthouse with the religios references taken out and a sign above it saying "Try not to do this:", I would have no problems.

I have too much respect for the teachings of Islam, Judaism, and Christianity to pay to smash a depiction of the ten commandments.

[Hippo_Tron]

28. Okay I will explain

He is showing that agnostics are not the stereotypical "religion haters" that religious fenatics make them out to be. I don't have any problem with anybody smashing their own statue of the ten commandments with a sledge hammer, nor defacing any other symbol for that matter.

[Yentatelaventa]

30. Right on!

After that we'll chainsaw all the worshipped old-growth trees!

[redeye]

42. Exactly my thoughts...

...maybe 15 mintues ago I had the thought that it's be graet if McDermott or any other politician who supports Newdow vs. Congress paid from his own pocket to smash the ten commandemnts monument.

[NightTrain]

43. But let's keep the Ten Commandments of Love!

To wit:

1. Thou shalt never love another.
2. Stand by me all the while.
3. Take happiness with the heartaches.
4. Go through life wearing a smile.
5. Thou shalt always have faith in me in everything I say and do.
6. Love me with all your heart and soul until our life on earth is through.
7. Come to me when I am lonely.
8. Kiss me when you hold me tight.
9. Treat me sweet and gentle.
10. Always do what's right.

\o Oh how happy we will be if we keep the Ten Commandments of Love o/

--Harvey & The Moonglows, 1958

[blm]

48. That's rude. I'm an atheist and I would no sooner promote that

then I would tearing up a Koran.

No tolerant, mature mind would.

[Blue_Chill]

57. They shall go but your comment is annoying

I have a few suggestions on where you can put that sledge hammer. That is if you're not to busy giving mothers at the store dirty looks for having children.....

[mopaul]

58. i find this thread offensive...why hasn't it been locked or removed?

just kidding

[sybylla]

59. Hey, Mo, be nice

We've discussing the separation issue today on several threads and by and large everyone has been very civil and on their best behavior. I love ya, man, but if you come in here and turn this into a free-for-all, I'll send you some photoshop to make you cry. :P

[Blue_Chill]

60. Even I have been nicer then usual

Sybylla you are a very nice person. I enjoyed our debate.

[sybylla]

61. Thank you, BC

That is quite a compliment. Months ago when I first saw you on DU, I wasn't so sure we could ever share a sane debate but I have to say I think the day went well.

I enjoyed it as well. :toast:

[mkregel]

62. This is a distraction - Don't play into the Right-winger's game

Like the "Under God" fracas, this is meant to distract the left and further polarize the nation.

Don't buy it - there are bigger fish to fry

[sybylla]

63. If you think separation of church and state isn't a serious issue

why are you here? I mean on DU, not on this thread. If it weren't for the principles of the separation of church and state we could be living under a theocracy. If you can't recognize that there are individuals in our country, principally gathered on the right, who would like to see that happen again, you haven't been paying attention.

[mkregel]

67. Separation of Church and state IS a serious issue

and I am against this monument. However, while we are all distracted debating this or "One nation under g-d," the BushCo is out shredding the constitution, detaining hundreds we will never hear about or from again, and funneling as much $$$ as they can out of the country.

Yes, the monument needs to go - it is a government endorsement of religion. However, it seems a bit like tearing down the statues of Lenin before the wall falls...we will have plenty of time to take care of these issues after we DEPOSE Bush and Co.!

[sybylla]

70. it's only a distraction if multi-tasking is a problem for you

And if we let a supreme court justice in Alabama write his own laws and convince the people of that great state and many in the rest of this country that it is the right thing to do, then there may be little left for us to do here in 2005. If you've followed these threads at all today, you'd see that the original posts(in LBN and GD) are more about the rule of law than whether or not the ruling by the Alabama Supreme court is right or wrong, though several threads have devolved into it.

For many of us, there apparently weren't any bigger fish to fry this afternoon - and for a few of us, never.

[mkregel]

71. I can give you one big Fish with a capital "F"

Ashcroft pushing his so-called "Victory Act" He's going around the country trying to shore up support for it.

Have you seen this thing? If it passes, any dissent could be labled as "terrorist" and your citizenship could be revoked. That's why they're distracting - they don't want a national discussion on this act since they know it simply shreds our liberties. Just like they passed the Patriot act right after 9/11 when no one was noticing.

Don't get me wrong - separation of church and state is important but we NEED TO STOP ASHCROFT NOW!!!!!

[sybylla]

73. Agreed

And if I could have left my business and my kids at home today, I'd be in Milwaukee protesting his ass (if he had the courage to show up) rather than debating with you which is the bigger fish. I'm on the board of my local county dem party. I have huge e-mail lists of state dems I communicate with regularly and actively keep people informed of issues that I find out about here first (because my local "news" isn't news). I write letters to my congressmen, when I'm not preaching to the choir (I think Russ Feingold is already on board with this). I donate to great causes like DU which help to spread the word. And when I'm done with all this, if I have time, I write letters to the editors of the five county newspapers in my area when they say or print something stupid.

I think I'm doing my part but maybe there is something I forgot. Perhaps you can help me out with this.

[mkregel]

76. I'm not arguing with you...really

My main beef is that the media feeds us these stories when they need a distraction. I have no beef with you.

The problem is: the average voter has a short attention span, and very little time to take in all the issues. When a left-leaning voter with that attention span and lack of time comes across a hot-button issue like the granite slab, he or she will get distracted by that and not notice when some loser like Ashcroft comes in and wipes away his or her rights.

Just like Bill Clinton used the mantra of "IT'S THE ECONOMY, STUPID" I think we progressives should adopt a similar strategy. Clinton knew the biggest issue in 91 was the economy, and kept everyone focused on it 24x7. We need to do the same, rather than being fragmented and disorganized.

[SyracuseDemocrat]

65. You're so scared of the Ten Commandments,

It's kind of funny. What is so scary about them? Why are you so pissed off?

[Walt Starr]

72. The decalogue itself is not scary

The government cramming the decalogue down everybody's throats is what's scary.

The first four I dismiss out of hand. They have nothing to do with law. They are strictly religious dictates and nothing more.

Coveting is the basis of our capitalist society. coveting drives the economy. Coveting is good. I dismiss the commandment against coveting out of hand as a socialistic bit of tripe.

The commandment against adultery is also tripe. It's nobody's business who sleeps with whom. And coveting my neighbor's wife is nobody's business but my own.

Okay, I honor my mother, but my father was a son of a bitch whom I will never honor so to the dung heap with that commandment.

Lying is bad.

Killing is bad.

Stealing is bad.

So three of the ten are worth giving a shit about and are so pervasive throughout the world as to be unicultural.

So put them up outside public buildings.

Don't lie.
Don't steal.
Don't murder.

'Nuff said.

[Shanty Oilish]

66. Don't touch that dollar! It's got references to God on it!

Eeew! Cooties!

Let's be consistent. Don't take any oaths in court either! Let's irritate one another over petty crap while Bush leads us (deleted) knows where.

[oneighty]

68. Judge Moore

could put the holy stone to a test.

Take it up to the Tennesee river, right around Sheffield would be good.

Throw the stone into the river. If it floats then he can put the stone

wherever he wants. Kinda like Salem.

180

[Yentatelaventa]

78. Why not place an ad in their local paper?

Do you have the nads it takes?