I feel like a dirty American (Bowling for Columbine)

[Gothic Sponge]

I just got done watching Bowling for Columbine. WOW! I've heard people on the center/right crying "it's not a documentary, because he does no real investigating and provides no answers!" Well, i think the answers are right in front of everyones face even if Moore doesn't spell them out. The simple answer: the paradigm of this country has to change! How do we change it? That's not so simple.

This is a quote from an amazon.com reviewer from Ottawa, Canada:

"Why do Americans kill each other at much higher rates than other developed nations, why does America still have the death penalty, and why are Americans obsessed with patriotism and guns. I just don't understand, to me patriotism gives a sense of belonging, not a justification for actions."


"to me patriotism gives a sense of belonging" That line just sticks with me so, because more, and more i don't feel like i belong, and i wish i could feel that sense of true pride for my country.

[JackSwift]

1. I bought it the other day and I'm watching it

I'm not done yet, its just a tour de force. There are very few logical gaps or failures. We need to make sure that lots of people see this.

[George_Bonanza]

2. Actually, it's not a documentary because it's full of lies

I think Moore's premise on making it is good, but the way he warped facts and blatantly lies about things just undermines his whole noble effort. He's an entertainer, period.

Read this: http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110003807

[Julien Sorel]

3. I agree and disagree.

There are tons of factual errors in it, but I think he does communicate, powerfully, a central truth in the film, which pure entertainers aren't interested in. He's kind of a political witch doctor, in the sense that his methods are unorthodox, but they yield results -- at least in this film. I hated 'Roger & Me,' because it was so maudlin and bathetic, but this film impressed me.

I'm a fairly well-educated person when it comes to the media, but I never really thought about the culture of fear the media helps create and sustain. Opening my jaded eyes was impressive. Perhaps he could have accomplished that without the distortions, and perhaps not, but the distortions added to the entertainment value of the film. Pure documentaries get ignored, except by awards committees and the like; with this film, Moore managed to express an important message loudly, and generate enough buzz to get people's butts into the theater seats to hear it.

[Maple]

5. It's called a 'docudrama'

a documentary with some sections dramatized

He's making a point...just like 'Guess who's coming to dinner'...only that was purely fictional

It's a search for answers on a serious subject...not an answer itself.

[maggrwaggr]

8. Uh, that's the Wall Street Journal's editorial smear piece on the man

not exactly an objective critique

[votein04]

9. Uh, no. It is a documentary

Even if there are a few stagings in it, it's still a documentary. Any way you slice it.

Why would you believe everything written by someone so obviously bent on slamming Moore? Why do you give the benifit of all doubt over to a right-wing biased rant on a right-wing site??

As for exaggeration....isn't "full of lies" a bit of artistic liscense on your part?

It's a fantastic thought-provoking documentary. Period.

He is far beyond an entertainer, that's for sure.

[FrancoUnamerican]

11. Enlighten me George,

what facts were blatant lies?

You're telling me that you got nothin from this movie, it was just about enertaining you, that's all. You weren't energized to make a difference, you weren't ready to get rid of guns? It didn't make you think at all?

If he's an entertainer, then the above statement would be the thruth.

[ThirdWheelLegend]

15. "you weren't ready to get rid of guns?"

Actually I don't think that was necessarily the message of the movie.

The message I got was that America breeds violence because of the media and the government preaching it every minute.

He compared/contrasted Canada and the US. How Canada has alot of guns per capita but has a miniscule amount of gun violence and the US makes violence a hobby.

TWL

[JVS]

23. I have a lot of trouble mustering up any kind of belief in ...

a newspaper in which people making less than $12,000 a year are called "lucky duckies"

It would be like asking you to believe a paper in which Kerry is described as "The running dog lackey of the American plutocrat overlords"

[Lefty48197]

37. Is the WallNut Journal a bastion of truth?

Dear God, these are the people that hounded Vincent Foster to suicide. I don't turn to the WallNut Journal for the truth on ANY subject.
Also, I'm not sure how you define 'Documentary', nor what your connection to the motion picture industry is, which allow you to consider yourself an expert on documentaries. The following groups COULD be considered experts on the subject of documentaries, and they honored Michael Moore's "Bowling for Columbine" with these awards:

The Academy Awards - Best documentary feature.
The Independent Spirit Awards - Best documentary.
National Board of Review - Best documentary.
American Cinema Editors (ACE) - Best documentary.
Amsterdam International Documentary Film Festival Audience Award -
Best documentary.
United States Broadcast Critics Association - Best documentary.
Chicago Film Critics Association - Best documentary.
Toronto Film Critics Association - Best documentary.
New York Film Critics on line - Best documentary.
Dallas - Ft. Worth Film Critics Association - Best documentary.
Las Vegas Film Critics Association - Best documentary.
Southeastern Film Critics Association - Best documentary.
Florida Film Critics Circle - Best documentary.
Phoenix Film Critics Circle - Best documentary.
Kansas City Film Critics Circle - Best documentary.
Online Film Critics Society - Best documentary.
International Documentary Association - Best documentary of all time.
(from a members poll)

So apparently there are some people that DISAGREE with your assertation that this film is not a documentary. I know for a fact that the NRA agrees with you, and I'm guessing that Ann Coulter does too.

[Renew Deal]

4. Falsehoods.

Parts of that movie are false. Most notably the Heston dead body thing. There were a few other things.

[Maple]

7. Did you get the point?

Did it make you think?

Did it make you ask yourself some serious questions?

Or look around you and observe others?

Then to quote Bush...'mission accomplished'

[votein04]

12. A "few other things"? Whatever...it was a well-deserved oscar.

It was a fantastic thought-provoking movie.

He is definitely on to something when he spotlights the US culture of violence that co-exists with heavy gun ownership.

A well deserved Oscar, for sure.

[BigDaddyLove]

20. A well deserved Oscar.............

Tell that to the handful of other 'Oscar for Best Documentary' nominees who busted their collective ass, spending years making real documentaries (that you'll never watch and probably never heard of), and not a deeply flawed "thought provoking" video essay in their spare time.

[VolcanoJen]

6. I watched it tonight for the first time...

... and during the montage where they enumerate the deaths the U.S. is directly responsible for, with "What a Wonderful World" playing in the background, well, it tore me up, basically.

:-(

I also found the scene where the Lockheed-Martin guy is saying he has no idea where American youth get their ideas of violence as solution, while standing directly in front of what looks like a nuclear warhead, to be fascinating, duplicituous, and illuminating.

Brilliant film.

[ErasureAcer]

10. that's my favorite part too...

the whole wonderful world part and the lockheed guy's comments leading up to it.

Makes you wanna cut pentagon spending, doesn't it?

www.kucinich.us

We don't need to practice Empire anymore...cut the pentagon budget!

[Avalon Sparks]

13. I watched it tonight too~

That whole wonderful world bit tore me up too.

I almost couldn't bear to watch parts of it.

The whole Columbine videotape was chilling too.

It made me want to move out of this country as soon as possible. I think for the first time I am seriously considering it.

[VolcanoJen]

14. The Canada Question

Just a few weeks ago, I was enjoying an idyllic Nova Scotian vacation, and adored and appreciated my well-spent time with our wonderful neighbors, the Canadians.

Before watching this film, I had no idea that Canadians were eager gun owners, just like us. Isn't it incredibly interesting that their murder rate is so low, given that fact?

Why couldn't anyone, including Moore, answer the most important question the film posed: "Why do Americans kill each other so much?"

[Ein]

16. b/c we are a warlike country.

If not since before our founding (my opinion), then certainly since WW2. It ain't the movies and video games, folks, its what our taxes support.

[Julien Sorel]

17. Culture of fear. I thought he explained it well.

The real answer, of course, is that no one knows for sure. If you'll recall, Heston blamed it on race, poor man. If there was a definitive answer, perhaps the problem would have been solved by now.

[Lars39]

28. One thing that I wondered about.....

does Canada (or any other country), have the US equivalent of the NRA?
That was an eye opener, realizing that the year the KKK was ruled illegal was the same year that the NRA was formed.

[Spazito]

29. To answer your question re Canada...

no, we don't have any organization that mirrors the NRA, thank goodness! I remember a few years ago when the gun registry question was hot, Heston actually came to northern B.C. and tried to get something started. He failed!

[MotorCityMan]

33. Living in Detroit, right next door to Windsor

I expected that Windsor's gun statistics would be comparable, but they are not.

Great, thought provoking documentary.

A few years ago, HBO did a documentary on violence in America. Their conclusion was it is violent here because it always has been. I was surprised to see this is the NRA's reasoning, too.

I think Michael Moore makes a very valid point that is being kept in a constant state of unrest and fear that is more responsible. It was very effective in the doc how he points out that alot of other countries (Britian, Germany, Japan) have violent histories, but do not have our shameful record of gun deaths.

[Woodstock]

18. Kind of like Arnold telling little kids violence is bad!

Agree, Moore deserved the Oscar for this.

[sierrak9s]

25. Appearances

can be deceiving. The thing that "looked like a nuclear warhead" wasn't. That facility doesn't make weapons -- it makes satellite technology. Communications.
THAT is the kind of deliberate misimpression that Moore created throughout the movie, and why it shouldn't be considered a "documentary."

[tameszu]

19. I think Moore's work would be brilliant

if he didn't play fast and loose with the facts.

I mean, most of his statistics might be right, but that bit about no one in Toronto locking their doors was a bit ridiculous--I grew up in T.O. and we certainly locked our doors (at least when we were out and at night).

Also, the part where he just goes to a Canadian Tire and buys a gun without a permit or anything. You definitely need a permit (later, the people at Canadian Tire said that if someone sold Moore a gun without a permit, they messed up).

And I found parts of his logic contradictory. And the Sept. 11 thing was over the top. Also, the classical music in the background got a bit grating after a while.

But someone needs to make these kinds of movies.

[molok555]

32. Seen it twice...

don't recall him buying a gun at WAL MART in Canada. Bullets, however, he did.

[Lisa]

38. I think he's being satirical again ...

Anyone who's spent any time in a large Canadian city, even as a visitor, knows that we don't leave our doors unlocked! (Though one thing that is evident is the much lower use of visible security precautions, such as bars on windows and electronic gates -- this was one of the first differences I noticed when visiting friends in the States.)

[oasis]

21. The two wounded kids from Columbine who confronted Walmart

was the high point for me. Great film. Others of course, may have a different take according to their personal life experience.

[JVS]

22. K-mart, not Wallmart

We wouldn't want to play fast and loose with the facts now, would we? ;)

[oasis]

24. whoops,thanks

[Lars39]

26. Just watched it.

Most people get hung up on the gun issue, but the guns are just the vehicle of the violence. His message was that it is the corporate media feeding our fears, resulting in the mindset that turns to guns for protection. Just my 2 cents.

[in_cog_ni_to]

27. I just watched it

and thought it was a thought provoking message. I liked the comparisons he made with the UK, Australia and Canada on gun deaths per year....holy cow! Something IS wrong in this country and I thought he made a great point...we have to do something. People leaving their doors unlocked???? Huh??? I haven't done that for YEARS and I live in the burbs. I liked the movie/docudrama a lot...LOVED the cartoon ..The history of America....made us look pretty bad, I'd say.

[waggawagga]

30. Greedy False Patriotism vs. Sanctimonious Self-Loathing

The biggest problem I have with the term liberalism, why I'm uncomfortable with the term and usually choose the label "moderate", is the self-loathing which many liberals seem to believe just comes with the territory.

I'm not writing this as a critique or slam. I'm truly appealing for guidance. Because if I just consider issues I should be a liberal. And yet this self-loathing bothers me a lot.

I liked "Bowling for Columbine" but it's a pity party. "Oooh, if only people loved each other more, why can't they be as sensitive as I am?". I offer no defense of conservatives when I suggest that the left is unmindful of the extent to which it has overinvested in the politics of sanctimony.

We live in a strange country.

[maggrwaggr]

31. interesting point. You bring up an important notion

and that is how liberals are portrayed as "whining".

I think this is the main reason Ronald Reagan won in 1980.

People want positive messages, they don't want complainers.

People respond to positive people, not negative people. They'd rather follow a dumb positive guy than an intelligent negative one.

Michael Moore, while I agree with his points, is pretty damned negative and I think that's why so many who aren't liberals people despise him.

While I think his work is brilliant and everyone should see it, I understand why it pisses some people off.

[VolcanoJen]

35. maggrwaggr has a point, here.

For further reference, see the 1984 "Morning in America" political spots, sponsored by the Re-elect Reagan folks...

[Zuni]

40. exactly

those are the truth--we have uberpatriotism on one hand and self-hatred on the other--I try to stay in middle ground

[SideshowScott]

34. I think its a Great film.

Well derserved of all the accolades and awards its gotten..Even though im a hard core dem i really like Moore alot..I dont understand all the hate and bile from people who say they are on the left about him. Do you know anyone else who is doing the kind of work he does in a the big brother dominated media?
Basicly Moore uncovered the turth that american voilence is created by people who profit from it..

[ewagner]

36. Saw it just last Thursday

The point isn't guns but the culture of fear laced with racism.

those my friends are our enemies...we need positive messages to overcome these...........

as for the inaccuracies.....I saw a lot of them but I don't think they were central to the theme....I considered it dramatic license.

[dudeness]

39. Moore is a powerful film maker

I have been advising my friends of all political persuasions to view this film...for us here in australia it does answer some questions as to the current psyche of the worlds super power..I imagine that some US citizens could find it disturbing but it is your society and are Moore's reflections accurate?