Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Pentagon spy = Tectonic Plate movement?

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU
 
Redbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-30-04 03:28 PM
Original message
Pentagon spy = Tectonic Plate movement?
Can somebody explain how Josh Marshall gets from one to the other?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Langis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-30-04 03:30 PM
Response to Original message
1. I think we will find out later this week
At least I hope we will.

All this waiting for something big is driving me crazy!!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nostamj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-30-04 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Thursday?
to sink the chimp "speech" ???
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Langis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-30-04 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Oh that would be nice
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shraby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-30-04 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. It involves most of the civilians in
the Pentagon, and right into Cheney's office because the Franklin thing and the Plame thing are connected, without a doubt. If that isn't tectonic plates, I don't know what is.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lancdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-30-04 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Wayne Madsen says they are connected
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
notadmblnd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-30-04 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. I posted this on another thread last night. I think it's a nice ....
little time line so far:
Larry Franklin actively participated in the following events:



June 2003 Complete Iraq timeline

The Pentagon Office of Special Plans sends two Defense officials, Harold Rhode and Larry Franklin, to Paris where they secretly meet with Manucher Ghorbanifar, an Iranian arms trader who had been a central figure in the Iran-Contra affair. Michael Ledeen of the American Enterprise Institute is said to have arranged the meeting, which is not authorized by the White House. It appears that the purpose of the meeting is to undermine a pending deal that the White House is negotiating with the Iranian government. Iran is considering turning over five al-Qaeda operatives in exchange for Washington dropping its support for Mujahadeen Khalq, an Iraq-based rebel Iranian group listed as a terrorist organization by the State Department. The Office of Special Plans is reportedly interested in using this group to help destabilize Iran?s government. When Secretary of State Colin Powell gets wind of its activities, he complains directly to the office of Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, saying that Feith's missions are against US policy.
People and organizations involved: Michael Ledeen, Manucher Ghorbanifar, Larry Franklin, Harold Rhode


http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/entity.jsp?entity=la...

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-30-04 03:49 PM
Response to Original message
5. "Sort of" an update from Josh
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/

A lot more should be coming out about that Report in the next couple weeks and on the Niger matter. Make a note of Bond's remarks for future reference
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AmerDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-30-04 04:00 PM
Response to Original message
7. what is with this term"tectonic plates"
This term is batted around here so much it's at a point of nausea. I sware people have overloaded on too many sci-fi movies or something.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-30-04 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Here:
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/week_2004_06_13.php#003068

From June 17, 2004

A few points before signing off, though. You may have noticed a slight down-tick in the frequency of posts of late. And that’s for a few different reasons. But a principal one is that I and several colleagues have been working on a story that, if and when it comes to fruition --- and I’m confident it shall --- should shuffle the tectonic plates under that capital city where I normally hang my hat. So that’s something to look forward to in the not too distant future.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
allemand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-30-04 04:23 PM
Response to Original message
9. I think it will be along the lines Juan Cole describes here
Pentagon/Israel Spying Case Expands: Fomenting a War on Iran

"Here is my take on the Lawrence Franklin espionage scandal in the Pentagon.

It is an echo of the one-two punch secretly planned by the pro-Likud faction in the Department of Defense. First, Iraq would be taken out by the United States, and then Iran. David Wurmser, a key member of the group, also wanted Syria included. These pro-Likud intellectuals concluded that 9/11 would give them carte blanche to use the Pentagon as Israel's Gurkha regiment, fighting elective wars on behalf of Tel Aviv (not wars that really needed to be fought, but wars that the Likud coalition thought it would be nice to see fought so as to increase Israel's ability to annex land and act aggressively, especially if someone else's boys did the dying)."

More:
http://www.juancole.com/2004_08_01_juancole_archive.htm...

There might also be a yellowcake connection.

He comments on the new article by Josh Marshall, Laura Rozen and Paul Glastris:
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2004/0410.mar...

"Josh Marshall, Laura Rozen and Paul Glastris have just published a piece in the Washington Monthly that details Franklin's meetings with corrupt Iranian arms dealer and con man Manuchehr Ghorbanifar, who had in the 1980s played a key role in the Iran-contra scandal. (For more on the interviews with Ghorbanifar, see Laura Rozen's web log). It is absolutely key that the meetings were attended also by Rhode, Ledeen and the head of Italy's military intelligence agency, SISMI, Nicolo Pollari, as well as Rome's Minister of Defense, Antonio Martino.

The rightwing government of corrupt billionnaire Silvio Berlusconi, including Martino, was a big supporter of an Iraq war. Moreover, we know that the forged documents falsely purporting to show Iraqi uranium purchases from Niger originated with a former SISMI agent. Watch the reporting of Josh Marshall for more on this SISMI/Ledeen/Rhode connection.

But journalist Matthew Yglesias has already tipped us to a key piece of information. The Niger forgeries also try to implicate Iran. Indeed, the idea of a joint Iraq/Iran nuclear plot was so far-fetched that it is what initially made the Intelligence and Research division of the US State Department suspicious of the forgeries, even before the discrepancies of dates and officials in Niger were noticed. Yglesisas quotes from the Senate report on the alleged Iraqi attempt to buy uranium from Niger:

http://yglesias.typepad.com/matthew/2004/07/when_in_rom...

' The INR nuclear analyst told the Committee staff that the thing that stood out immediately about the documents was that a companion document -- a document included with the Niger documents that did not relate to uranium -- mentioned some type of military campaign against major world powers. The members of the alleged military campaign included both Iraq and Iran and was, according to the documents, being orchestrated through the Nigerien Embassy in Rome, which all struck the analyst as "completely implausible." Because the stamp on this document matched the stamp on the uranium document , the analyst thought that all of the documents were likely suspect. The analyst was unaware at the time of any formatting problems with the documents or inconsistencies with the names or dates. '
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-30-04 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. AIPAC's Overt and Covert Ops
AIPAC's Overt and Covert Ops
Juan Cole

..........

"The purpose of the meeting with Ghorbanifar was to undermine a pending deal that the White House had been negotiating with the Iranian government. At the time, Iran had considered turning over five al-Qaeda operatives in exchange for Washington dropping its support for Mujahadeen Khalq, an Iraq-based rebel Iranian group listed as a terrorist organization by the State Department."

The neoconservatives have some sort of shadowy relationship with the Mujahadeen-e Khalq Organization, or MEK. Presumably its leaders have secretly promised to recognize Israel if they ever succeed in overthrowing the ayatollahs in Iran. When the U.S. recently categorized the MEK as a terrorist organization, there were howls of outrage from "scholars" associated with the Washington Institute for Near East Policy, such as ex-Trotskyite Patrick Clawson and Daniel Pipes. MEK is a terrorist organization by any definition of the term, having blown up innocent people in the course of its struggle against the Khomeini government. (MEK is a cult-like mixture of Marx and Islam). The MEK had allied with Saddam, who gave them bases in Iraq from which to hit Iran. When the U.S. overthrew Saddam, it raised the question of what to do with the MEK. The pro-Likud faction in the Pentagon wanted to go on developing their relationship with the MEK and using it against Tehran.


..............

The FBI has evidence that Franklin passed a draft presidential directive on Iran to AIPAC, which then passed it to the Israelis. The FBI is construing these actions as espionage or something close to it. But that is like getting Al Capone on tax evasion. Franklin was not giving the directive to AIPAC in order to provide them with information. He was almost certainly seeking feedback from them on elements of it. He was asking, "Do you like this? Should it be changed in any way?" And, he might also have been prepping AIPAC for the lobbying campaign scheduled for early in 2005, when Congress will have to be convinced to authorize military action, or at least covert special operations, against Iran. AIPAC probably passed the directive over to Israel for the same reason – not to inform, but to seek input. That is, AIPAC and Israel were helping write U.S. policy toward Iran, just as they had played a key role in fomenting the Iraq war.

With both Iraq and Iran in flames, the Likud Party could do as it pleased in the Middle East without fear of reprisal. This means it could expel the Palestinians from the West Bank to Jordan, and perhaps just give Gaza back to Egypt to keep Cairo quiet. Annexing southern Lebanon up to the Litani River, the waters of which Israel has long coveted, could also be undertaken with no consequences, they probably think, once Hizbullah in Lebanon could no longer count on Iranian support. The closed character of the economies of Iraq and Iran, moreover, would end, allowing American, Italian and British companies to make a killing after the wars (so they thought).

Franklin's movements reveal the contours of a right-wing conspiracy of warmongering and aggression, an orgy of destruction, for the benefit of the Likud Party, of Silvio Berlusconi's business in the Middle East, and of the neoconservative Right in the United States. It isn't about spying. It is about conspiring to conscript the U.S. government on behalf of a foreign power or powers.

more

http://www.antiwar.com/cole/?articleid=3467
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
allemand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-30-04 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
12. In short: neocons forged for Iraq war and now manipulate for Iran invasion
With the help of the Italian intelligence agency (SISMI) the neocons themselves launched the Iraq-Niger-yellowcake story that made it into the SOTU.
And with that forgery they were already targeting Iran, too.
They also undermined US policy towards Iran and want to provoke an invasion.

The Sharon government had (and has) an interest in all of this, so they might have been involved (via Franklin or others). I don't believe that Mossad was involved, because they are very professional and the Niger forgery seems to have been rather amateurish.

Another tectonic question is: What did the Vice President know and when did he know it...?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
allemand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-31-04 06:29 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. Josh Marshall also points out the linkage between Feith and Cheney
"Feith's operation has been at the center of a number of bizarre intelligence snafus and embarrassments -- at least two of which have now spawned criminal investigations. One of the more memorable ones was being in charge of post-war planning for Iraq, which didn't pan out that well. Feith's office is also closely tied to Vice President Cheney's office, which is the focus of the Plame investigation."

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/week_2004_08_29.php#003379
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Sat May 04th 2024, 08:20 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC