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Monday, August 30, 2004
BLITZER: Do you regret your vote in favor of giving the president the authority to go to war against Saddam Hussein's Iraq?
CLINTON: You know, Wolf, I have said I don't regret giving the president authority. I regret deeply the way he used that authority. And I think there is plenty of reason for us to question the decisions that were made from the moment that he received that authority.
BLITZER: But when you voted for that resolution, like almost everyone else, you believed Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction?
CLINTON: Right, right. Well, indeed I did. And if someone asked me that if we had known then what we know now, there wouldn't have been a vote. You know, no administration would have come to the Congress and asked for a vote that would have authorized any kind of action based on what we now know.
But, you know, we are where we are. And what we have to do at this point is get new leadership, so that we can prosecute the war on terrorism more effectively, so that we can actually have a fighting chance to be successful in Iraq.
BLITZER: Did those nearly 1,000 U.S. troops who have died in Iraq die in vain?
CLINTON: Oh, Wolf, I think that, you know, the removal of Saddam Hussein and the actions that our brave men and women in uniform have taken are a great credit to them, their families and our country. And they paid the price of their service in an ultimate fashion with the loss of their lives, plus the many who have been grievously injured. You know, what we need to be focused on is which president is more likely to make decisions that will achieve our objectives with putting the least amount of lives at risk? You know, we were successful in Kosovo and we didn't lose a single American military person. And I think we need a smart strategy.
You know, I resent it when the Republicans say that we're better, meaning they are better, on national defense than the Democrats. It was Democratic presidents who prosecuted the wars that were successful in this past century that, you know, there's no debate about. And I am a strong proponent of a national defense that is smart.
BLITZER: But you have to admit, it was Democratic presidents, your husband, and Republican presidents, the first President Bush, who really didn't do enough to prevent this al Qaeda terror organization from developing the way it did throughout the '90s.
CLINTON: Well, I think, Wolf, the 9/11 Commission has it right, that there were probably 10 missed opportunities -- six of them during the first eight months of the Bush administration, four during the eight years of the Clinton administration.
But they also pointed out that the exemplary fashion that the Clinton administration dealt with the millennium threat is what should have been done going forward.
You know, every one of us learned things. The American people learned things about what our real threats were. Now we have to make sure we're doing all that we can do.
And that's where I part company with the administration. I don't think their homeland security strategy is up to the task that we confront.
BLITZER: We only have a little time left. I want to get through a couple points: Iran, one of the axis-of-evil countries based on what president said a couple of years ago.
How worried are you that the Iranians are developing a nuclear bomb? And what, if anything, should the U.S. do about it?
CLINTON: Well, obviously I'm concerned. I mean, the information coming out of Iran is somewhat mixed but, I think, points to a continuing desire to at least have nuclear capacity. And we need to be, you know, as engaged as we possibly can. And we need, this time, to try to bring the rest the world along with us.
BLITZER: Can the U.S. tolerate a nuclear power in Iran?
CLINTON: Well, I hope we never reach that point. I hope we're able, through a different approach than this administration has taken to date, in trying to muster public opinion and working with others as well as the Iranians, to try to reach a point where that's not necessary.
You know, the principle architect of the Iranian nuclear capacity is Russia. And, you know, we have a lot that we should be doing with Russia that we're not.
I just came back from a trip with John McCain to Estonia, the Arctic, and Iceland. And there's a lot of concern about, you know, Russia's actions and motivations.
There's a lot we should be doing. And we are so totally diverted in a way that I don't think leads to a safer, stronger America in the world.
BLITZER: You're a member of the Senate Armed Services Committee. There are reports now that the FBI's investigating the possibility of an Israeli spy at the Pentagon. What have you heard about this? Can you give us some perspective?
CLINTON: Wolf, all I know is what I read in the paper. I returned from this trip to the Arctic and Iceland, Ireland, other places last night. I've read the articles, and I'm waiting to see what the investigation proves.
BLITZER: You haven't checked? Your staff hasn't checked?
CLINTON: No. Well, they've been checking, but, you know, we're going to stick with what the public information is.
BLITZER: One final question. We spoke when you were running for Senate in Buffalo, New York, my hometown. You promised, at that point, you'd serve all six years, if elected. You've been elected. You're obviously going to serve six years.
But what about down the road in 2008, 2012? Would you like to be president of the United States?
CLINTON: You know, in 2008, I hope I'm going to be working for the reelection of John Kerry and John Edwards.
You know, I love my job. And I think you have a sense of it. I mean, you're from Buffalo. You know what a fabulous place New York is. I enjoy what I do every single day. I want to keep doing it.
BLITZER: A lot of conservative radio talk show hosts would love you to run for president.
(LAUGHTER)
CLINTON: Well, it's a perverse form of flattery, I know, their obsession with me. But I'm doing what I want to do. And I'm going to do the best job I can do to elect John Kerry president.
BLITZER: Is it possible that Rudy Giuliani, you think, might be challenging you for reelection?
CLINTON: I have no idea. I have no idea. You know, that's not how I think. I'm just focused on what I can do, which is the best job that I'm capable of doing for the people of New York and everything that I can possibly do to elect John Kerry, elect, you know, more senators in the Senate, which I think would be good for New York and the country.
BLITZER: Senator Clinton, thanks for joining us here at the Republican National Convention.
CLINTON: Indeed, indeed. Thank you, Wolf. Thanks very much.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Welcome back to "LATE EDITION." I'm Wolf Blitzer, reporting from Madison Square Garden, the convention site for the Republicans, here in New York. The convention formally opens tomorrow.
Joining us now from Burlington, Vermont, the man who would have liked to have been president of the United States, the former Democratic candidate, Howard Dean. Now the former governor of Vermont, as well.
Governor, thanks very much for joining us.
Let's take a look at the latest poll numbers that we have. Time magazine, our sister publication, their brand new poll, has Bush at 46 percent; Kerry, 44; Ralph Nader, a man you debated, at 5 percent.
Incredibly close race right now. Doesn't get much closer than that, does it, Governor?
HOWARD DEAN, FORMER GOVERNOR OF VERMONT: No. But, of course, as we all know, if polls meant a lot, I'd be sitting where John Kerry's sitting right now.
So, you know, it's going to come right down the end. It's going to be a very close race, and I think John's going to win.
BLITZER: Well, take a look at three battleground states that had polls this week. The L.A. Times had polls in Ohio, for example. Bush ahead in that key state, 49-44 percent. Look at Wisconsin, the L.A. Times poll, Bush ahead 48-44 percent. In Missouri, 46 percent for Bush, Kerry for 44 percent. Those are states that this president desperately needs, obviously, but John Kerry needs them, as well.
DEAN: Sure. And I think in the end, John's going to win. The reason I think so is, if you're president of the United States, you've got to get two things right: You've got to get foreign policy right, and you've got to get the economy right. And this president's gotten both of them wrong.
After 9/11, he's taken some actions that have put us at greater risk. He's picked on the wrong country, Iraq, which is a relatively -- you know, Saddam was a tin-horn dictator who couldn't punch his way out of a paper bag, but the president's allowed Iran and North Korea to become nuclear powers on his watch.
On the economy, we know we've lost a million and a half jobs, the first president in 70 years to have lost jobs on his watch.
BLITZER: Governor, let me interrupt for a second. When you say Saddam Hussein was a tin-horn dictator, couldn't get his way out of a paper bag, your candidate, John Kerry, voted to give the authority to the president to go to war against him. If he was nothing, did he make a major mistake?
DEAN: First of all, that's not the same thing as actually going to war. Second of all, the president just simply was not capable of defending the United States. He sent over 135,000 troops we have in Iraq now. Now he's talking about cutting down troops elsewhere, including in South Korea, which John Kerry has correctly said was a mistake.
I think this president has gotten us in a lot of trouble, trouble that we didn't need after 9/11.
BLITZER: The favorable/unfavorable ratings of John Kerry are very interesting right now. This Time magazine poll, I was looking at that: favorable, only 44 percent; unfavorable, 33 percent.
He still has a problem, doesn't he? (What an asswipe)
DEAN: Well, his biggest problem is what the campaign is about. He is not that well-known. And most people are not going to pay attention to -- or the most undecided people are not going to pay attention until the last two weeks.
John is a very strong closer. I can tell you that from personal experience. And I think he's going to do fine.
He has the right message: jobs, national security policy that's consistent with American morality, health insurance and public education. The Republicans get zero for those.
The president has decided that he's going to be on the far right. I think somebody in the center like John Kerry will have a better shot at running the country right and a better shot at winning the next election. BLITZER: In that Time magazine poll, "don't know," among those who don't have a favorable or unfavorable attitude, 22 percent. So there's still a big chunk of the American public who not made up their mind about John Kerry.
DEAN: That's right.
BLITZER: The last time, Governor, you were on "LATE EDITION," you made a commotion, you made a lot of news by pointing out -- that was the same day that Tom Ridge, the secretary for homeland security, raised the threat level in parts of New York, New Jersey, Washington, D.C., amid terror reports. And you suggested, at least partially, politics was behind that.
I wonder if you've had a chance to rethink those controversial words since then.
DEAN: Yes, I think it's very likely. Now it seems, given the past events, that it's extremely likely that politics have something to do with it.
We now know that the president has broken the law. The president's campaign had two of its members working in cahoots with this Swift Boat ad, which turned out not to be true.
And so, the president himself is now responsible for an ad that's been on television that's not true. There will be an investigation about that. Unfortunately, the results won't be known until after the election.
You know, you wonder why so many people are demonstrating against the president. It's not the president's policy. It's his integrity that's in question here.
Whether the president of the United States told us the truth when we went to Iraq, whether the president of the United States told us the truth when his people put an ad on television that wasn't true, questioning John Kerry's service.
The president gets to have it both ways. He says, "Oh, no, we don't question John Kerry's service"; his own people are in cahoots with the people who put those lies on television.
This is a president whose word is no good. At least many Americans believe that, including me.
BLITZER: When you say he broke the law, those are strong words. And Governor Marc Racicot, the chairman of the Bush-Cheney campaign, was on this program earlier. He made the point that lawyers, when they're giving legal advice, that's not necessarily the same as having an active political operative working for a campaign, working for the so-called 527 advocacy groups.
Because, as you well know, Governor, if you take a look on the Democratic side, there are a lot of Democratic Party activists who are intimately involved in those same MoveOn.org or advocacy 527 groups, as well.
DEAN: Well, now, Wolf, you sound like the Republicans. Their defense is, "Oh, the Democrats are doing it too." The truth is that there's a firewall that you're -- those groups are not allowed to talk to John Kerry or his campaign, and they haven't.
However, what we have seen is two people, both of whom have resigned, which ought to tell you something, who have been intimately involved, and one of whom appeared in the ad.
That is against the law, and we're going to find out, unfortunately not until after the election.
This, really, I've often said that this administration reminds me very much of the Nixon administration. We hope we won't have the opportunity to find out after the election whether they've broken the law. We hope the American people will look at what they're doing.
You know, I'm tired of this. We saw this in the first Bush campaign, with Lee Atwater attacking, with racist ads. Then we saw it in previous times against John McCain in the primaries in South Carolina, where this president besmirched John McCain's Vietnam record.
BLITZER: All right.
DEAN: I'm sick of this. I think the American people are sick of it. We need a new president, and I'm hoping we'll get one after November.
BLITZER: We're all out of time, but one quick follow-up, Governor. When you said earlier that politics were partially behind the terror alert, raising of that level, and you pointed to the fact there hasn't been any terrorism since then, is that really what you meant to say?
DEAN: I didn't say that. What I said was, it appears from the political goings-on that there was very much of a connection. Secretary Ridge himself went out to lavishly praise the president during his announcement. Several newspapers have looked at this, including The New York Times and The Washington Post.
I might add, I'm surprised there hasn't been more play with The New York Times story this morning, or yesterday, that showed that the Abu Ghraib scandals may well reach into Secretary Rumsfeld's office.
What is going on in this administration? How come you guys aren't paying more attention to it?
BLITZER: Well, we're paying attention. Those reports, the Abu Ghraib prison investigation reaching the office of the secretary of defense, that was widely reported, once the reports, those two reports came out, the Fay report, the Schlessinger report came out last week.
Governor, unfortunately we're all out of time. We're trying to do the best job we can covering all the news here on CNN. Governor Howard Dean...
DEAN: Thanks, Wolf.
BLITZER: ... the former governor of Vermont, thanks very much.
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