Has DU become banal?

[Ernesto]

It seems to this old geezer that, as time has passed since the DU beginning (because the chimp was "appointed"), some of the "freshness" of our outrage has dissipated. I guess this is to be expected as these 3+ wretched years have dragged on. While we are over 50k strong in registration, I just don't see the frequency of quality posts growing. More & more I am seeing frustration expressed in nasty language posts & exhaustive (too long) posts on topics that are already common (DU) knowledge..... Apparently, we have lost many of our inovative "pioneers" because this progression. Any ol' timers agree?..... The bottom line for this ol' vet is that I just can't find many reasons to post here in the last couple of months or so.... Trust me though, I'm payin' attention & I've sent Kerry plenty of CASH.

[mahina]

1. It's a predictable cycle.

People gather around a particular issue, the issue changes, and the group disperses. That's why progressives have had to reinvent the wheel constantly in the past. But now this vehicle will remain to exchange information and organize. I think this will be a really useful tool in the struggle ahead after Nov. 2.
We will be patient and we won't let them steal it again, in part because this vehicle exists to inform each other, to out the b.s. and exert pressure on the media.
86W!

(If I may make a newbie contribution. )

[ropi]

2. not an old geezer here...

but if it's getting banal, Ernesto, generate some topics and discussions to get it back to where it once was! I wasn't here in the beginning so I don't know if it's become banal.

[prolesunited]

3. As the number of posters and posts go up

the quality may appear diluted, but that doesn't mean there still aren't plenty of gems here. I still find excellent posts and threads here every day.

And, if I don't find something interesting, I'll start my own thread about something that needs to be discussed.

Rather than shaking your head and walking away, why don't you help steer the conversations or start threads on things that are important to you.

Your strategy makes as much sense as not voting because you're not thrilled with the choices. Things won't change unless you participate. Silence and inaction are irrelevant.

That's my two cents as an old-timer.

[progressivebydesign]

4. I'm not an "old geezer" but I've been with DU since 2001...

.. and I don't think it's gotten "banal" at all. You have a right to your opinion of it.. perhaps you're just burned out, that happens to me sometimes. I actually have been enjoying DU so much MORE lately, it's been more calm, informative, and activist oriented. There is less of the rants, the ego-posts, and time-wasters. I feel as though DU has become a great community, and I love it.

I don't find supporting each other banal. Nor do I find the sharing of important knowledge for the upcoming election battles, banal. I imagine there are fiery places for you to visit if DU is becoming too tame for you... but I happen to love the tone we've taken lately, and am REALLY loving all the new people joining DU lately. You mention that some threads are full of information that DUers already know, but you know what? We have lots of new people here, who are just learning about the inner workings of the GOP, etc... it's just been so much more productive here lately, and we're making a difference in getting Bush un-selected in November.

[liberalcanuck]

20. Here, here Cali - I was one of those who first came to DU only

for the Top Ten Conservative Idiots list. Then I started reading the articles by my faves punpirate and Plaid Adder. After a little more browsing I came across the message forum where I just lurked for awhile. It was like a huge proverbial fog had been lifted from mine eyes!

The message forum has become an invaluable resource to me. It never ceases to amaze me how often I'll hear something hypothesized here and then see that scenario play out on the national scene. DU's the reason I was a little disappointed with F911 -- only because none of Moore's info was new to me since I had heard it all on DU before.

Many of my talking points with repukes or even fellow democrats are not anything that I originated but borrowed from DUers, young and old geezers alike, whom I've come to trust way more than any of the corporate 'media'.

DU kicks ass!

[Forkboy]

5. No more or less so than the human race already is.

[autorank]

6. I'm relatively new, so my answer is no but...

...at times, the manners here are just appalling. The nastiness aimed at fellow users, particularly using the "Troll" slander is nothing but warmed over McCarthyism. As a new user, I think the interactive format, the content, and the general vibe are excellent. It all goes for naught when new users are insulted. I see this in waves but it's definitely there. I work in a field where there is a lot of emotional intensity and confrontation at multiple levels and I like it. I don't expect, however, to have to see others take insults or take any myself when I'm on a forum of fellow Democrats. Like you Ernesto, I'm giving as much as I can and working extra hours to give more plus time. I also give to DU. For this place to grow, the chicken-shit stuff has to stop or be heavily condemned.

[Kanary]

7. Everything I post is *extremely* important.....

Would you like for me to send you PMs to alert you to those?

~~guffaw~~

What topics do you consider of pressing importance?

:hi:

Kanary

[scarletwoman]

8. More chaff, definitely.

But that's to be expected, I suppose, with such a vast increase in the population here.

I wasn't here at the very beginning, but I remember when the first DUer hit 1000 posts, and what a big deal that was. Back then things were more intimate, it was pretty easy to get to know all the regular posters, and the discussions seemed to be more thoughtful and less frenetic.

I don't post much anymore either, but I still read here pretty regularly. It's changed for sure, but change is inevitable. I loved the way it was when I was first here, and I'm glad I got to experience it. I've also learned to accept that as this place got bigger, it was going to be different.

While I am often dismayed at the ratio of nonsense to edifying discourse, I still find enough value here to keep checking in.

sw

[Cleita]

9. Maybe November will bring

a whole new outrage. I hope not. However, if Kerry wins, I don't trust a lame duck Bush administration at all. I hope someone out there has the balls to begin impeachment proceedings. It should keep him occupied and on the defensive until Inauguration Day.

[nightperson]

10. Who knows? I don't have the time to notice!

Life is short and I am busy. There are so many sites! I suspect I am not the only person who reads far more than he/she writes, and I have so many memberships and passwords at so many sites I barely remember who I am :cry: . Who is the sick puppy who thoroughly reads and astutely comments daily on every one of the links (and the accompanying links ) here for instance? I don't sweat it.

[WLKjr]

11. I've been on since Feburary or so and defintely not a geezer

but I have noticed that the post have changed a bit lately.

(I have been guilty a few times for language and ventage in some of my posts, I should try to stop) but sometimes that is a little hard to do.


Plus I think that there are quite a few of us that are out getting organized and volunteering right now (just did some today myself) and that is one of the reasons for the shortness on good quality posts.



Just my 2 cents

[Eloriel]

12. Yeah, I agree

I'm not nearly the "old timer" you are, I joined when the membership was about 12,000. I can remember that there was a time when I spent all day, every day looking at just 3 forums: LBN, Editorials and GD and STILL didn't feel like I'd plumbed the depth and breadth of all the material that was there for the picking. Nowadays I'd probably do well enough to spend just an hour or so here a day. Lots of utter silliness and just plain dumb shit, and if I see many more celebrity (and not-so-celeb) death notices in LBN I shall surely tear out all my hair.

There are some truly great minds still here with new ones added, but I mourn for some of the brilliant minds and fabulous researchers and analysists we've lost (some of them, incredibly, having been tombstoned).

[OneBlueSky]

13. Catch 99 . . .

a lot of what goes on on DU is commentary on current events as reported by the US corporate media . . . and since that coverage defines "banal," it's not surprising that the discussions can, at times, reflect that banality . . .

[FormerOstrich]

14. I think DU has changed a lot....

I don't know if it has become banal but different.

When I first came to DU it was a life saver. I had felt so alone and isolated in my views. Then I found DU and discovered I was not alone after all. I spent entire days here. I don't know what I would have done without it.

As time went on I had to temper my emotions just so I could survive (i.e. pay the mortgage). I realized I wasn't going to do anyone any good if I was living under the viaduct. So as I tried to normalize my post-* life my posts were fewer and farther between.

I still come and visit all the time. I don't post very much, but some. I wish I could have harnessed a lot of the raw energy and emotion so as to work it into something more productive. But I didn't know how. I was jealous of those that did. I have a ton of respect for them.

I think we are not as isolated in our opinions as we were at one time. We are a tad more mainstream so the forum has picked up more mainstream. Personally, I think we are the reason that is so. I think we have probably had much more of an impact than we will ever know. I will always feel like I was part of something that was very important.

Why I miss the DU of old, I don't want to bring back those days, as they were very dark for me. Hopefully, after the elections we can start with new energy in days of light to make our contribution to the restoration of our country.

[Ernesto]

27. "When I first came to DU it was a life saver"

That about sums it up for me, FormerOstrich...

[Rabelais]

15. I'm losing interest in the entire internet

not just one site, but the whole thing is getting boring.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[0rganism]

17. I think it's part of the bush malaise

It's a lot of work to sustain outrage for damn near four years now. I used to work up a genuine righteous activist anger against bush maybe twice a day, for hours at a time. Now I'm lucky if I can get angry twice per week. Most of the time I try to ignore them and wish they'd go away.

I'm tired. I feel like we've lost so much over the last few years, and it's going to be an almost insurmountable task to rebuild under the best of circumstances. Sucks.

[Ernesto]

30. Agreed.. n/t

[Lexingtonian]

18. It's not DU so much

though I agree, things used to be more fun here when people had actual conversations and revealed interesting things about themselves. It feels thinner as a community now, but the comradery is/was based in pretty virtual reality in the first place.

But DU is more uncreative and less full of life because, well, the whole country has been degenerating in those respects for three plus years; DU reflects a crosssection of large parts of the society and can't escape the trend. The wealth accumulated during the Clinton days is consumed, the philanthropic optimism and innovation it gave rise to has vanished. The country's business these days consists of making its plutocrats richer, applying itself to killing people in the Middle East, and becoming utterly absorbed in the political conflict about the domestic balance of power.

Just about everything that is going on in public and professional life is radically politicized and turned brutish, and it certainly bleeds over into personal life too. There is a dark cloud over the whole society, and it's that everyone feels their lives being ruined by the domestic conflict. The corporate wealth/power Establishment, whose fate is the essential object of the fighting, of course has the media tell us that the sense of gloom and destruction is All Due To The Terrorists And Saddam Hussein, Well- All Them Ay-rabs.

In short, everything the country is doing is stifled and mediocrity and beside the point. The Presidential election, which demonstrates which side has the majority of people willing to fight and whose stakes are whether the Establishment turns Modern or stays Pre-Enlightenment feudal lords for a while longer, is the epitome and, in some sense, all that is really going on in this country of 290 million people.

It's degrading, really. It's all a waste of four years of every citizen's life because we've all spent the time being held hostage and plundered by the immoralists and the stupid. The good news is that when our side defeats their alliance they're defeated in a historical way- their Party will implode, their social reactionaries will collapse and their faux paganized Christianity they pretend to and their whole medieval European social ideal with it. Their plutocrats will have to accept their confederated kingdoms- their Corporations- being defeated, stripped of privileges, and getting, well, federated with the society rather than parasitizing it.

[enough]

21. Now THERE is a great "old fashioned" DU post.

Thanks, Lexingtonian.

I simply avoid any thread whose title doesn't give a clear idea of the subject. These threads have multiplied greatly in recent times. That cuts down on a lot of the chaff.

[The Wielding Truth]

23. Clear and Smart .I'd like to vote for you.

[Ernesto]

31. Welcome Aboard to TrulyMe

And all the energetic young warriors that want to contribute in this rightous battle.

[mopaul]

19. everything changes

ya gotta keep up old timer!

[Zorra]

35. LOL.

So fucking true.

[robbedvoter]

22. As another geezer, I'd say part of the debating energy went in activism

Lots of DU-ers fork for the campaign, GOTV. It's not as exciting as debating, protests - but it's what needs to be done at the moment.
I for one am just as angryas I was on december 13, 2000 - my haandle still fits.

[greekspeak]

24. Could it be that your impression of Banality reflects culture in general?

American culture is becoming more banal and vapid by the hour. One could edit his or her daily observations into a novel, take it back 30 years in time, and people would class the writing with 1984, Farenheit 451, or Brave New World.

I am sorry that you find that DU has become as banal as the rest of society. Sure there are banal posts. Not everyone has been divorced from American society. Some people come here to vent frustrations. Others come to report their observations. Still others want to know how to handle Republicans. Inevitably, when you get angry, confused people of different walks of life all under the same tent, you are going to find posts you do not like. People curse when they are fuming mad. People catch 5 minutes of "news" on TV and want to report the outrage to sympathetic ears.

For some reason, I feel that I am probably one of those posters who you place into the "unfit for DU" catagory. So be it. I have only been here for about a year and a half, and barely have 1100 posts. I am sorry if I have helped ruin DU for you.

[Ernesto]

32. No one said that DU has been ruined

Changed perhaps... evolution happens. Please don't take my opening question personally, after all, this is GD isn't it?

[kentuck]

25. You have to believe that you can make a difference...

And that words have the power to change the world. Somewhere out there amongst all the wheat and chaff is a magical word or phrase that can stop war and bring peace to the world.

[The River]

26. All Communities Have a Life Cycle

Both in the real world and on line.
Both have their "founding fathers" and
early settlers. If any new community has
something of value to offer (as DU does) the population
grows and the dynamics change in many many ways.
After almost 4 years of bizzaro-world politics, I think the DU "collective" is suffering from
P.E.S. (Pre Election Syndrome).
It's a state akin to "High Anxiety" that comes from being exposed to:
Endless Polls that yank you around like a bi-polar yo-yo.
Endless media propaganda pushing their "product" de jour.
Government fear mongering, Trolls and our own brand
of "battle fatigue". If the quality of posts has suffered
recently it's understandable and temporary. After Kerry wins,
DU will become more relevant than ever, again.

With 5 weeks to go, we just can't wait to know, officially,
that our national nightmare will soon be over. At the same time
we secretly dread what might come to pass if the election process
is "manipulated" again. It won't do them any good though.
Kerry will win in a landslide. Remember those record numbers of preliminary voters in state after state?
Just wait till you see the record numbers of voters who will turn out November 2nd.

[Ernesto]

33. Good call, The River.

This Nov 2nd business is serious, very serious. BTW, Welcome Aboard!

[JudasBetrays]

28. It is like

this new breed od dems just want to call names, insult family members and shout conspiracy theory..that is why the credibility gets lost..

[HuckleB]

29. Alas, I can't disagree, in general.

It's become more and more difficult to find posters who will discuss issues at a high level, and with curiosity and the ability to seek understanding from all angles. I wish I could say you are wrong. But I cannot.

[Zorra]

34. What we consider "common knowledge" may be a new revelation

to others. For example, I have been astounded many times by how many posters are unaware of and uninformed about the electronic voting issue.

Also, many of the seriously political folks are often out actively working trying to register voters, etc. at this time.

Registration is up at DU and this is, I think, very important right now.

IMO, at this time, DU may be more valuable and necessary as a vehicle for methods of, and discussion of, political activism in getting Kerry and other Dems elected, rather than as a forum for philosophical or personal discussions.

Unfortunately, due to the fact that the most important election of our lifetimes is just a month away, it seems we must concentrate on those issues and methods which are most likely to get our Dems in office, rather than in depth discussions of political process or philosophies. Campaigns at this time do not, it seems to me, always address the issues that are most important, but what is most likely to get candidates elected.

After Kerry is elected, maybe DU will slow down a little and once again resemble what you were comfortable with in the past. I suspect, that DU will slow down some after the election.

But I hope not. There will still be a lot to accomplish after the election