About all these "Small businesspeople" Kerry is gonna hurt....

[BiggJawn]

...when he rescinds the ill-intended tax cut for the "200 Kilobuck Klub"...

I've known some small businesspeople. some are even rabid Bushites. the common thread is that NONE of them are making any money. not enough to be worried about rolling back the tax break for the obscenely wealthy, anyway.

We've all heard it and seen it here, even. the Entrepreneurs pissing and moaning about how they haven't had a day off in 75 years, and if it wasn't for the H-2 tax break, they'd be walking to work (if they don't live there) in holey shoes....<sarcasm>

Seriously, though, are there any small business folk here who got the 200 kilobuck windfall, and stand to lose it when Kerry takes the oath?

Anyone? Hell, I'd even settle for a word from an ambulance chaser with an office of 3....

More bullshit from Cheney, I'll bet.

[7th_Sephiroth]

1. us

if we land a new job from a client we will be in that range

[cheezus]

2. if they're making that much money, they should be hiring and expanding

why take a 200k paycheck when you can expand and create more jobs.

Take 100k for yourself and hire 2 new full time people


if this were a real issue, the sole propreitorship would just become a inc or lcc for tax purposes.

[RobertSeattle]

3. Tax Cuts = Small Business Hire More is a bogus argument

Just because a small business person gets a tax break (depends on profitability, etc), doesn't necessarily mean they are going to go out and hire someone or buy new equipment - it's a fallacy. You hire people when you NEED to hire people - not become some extra cash (in the form of a tax cut) gets plopped in your lap.

Heck a small business owner might just go spend it on a vacation - and that could be overseas where it does very little to help the US economy, or they could buy US Treasury Bonds with it, something that helps the Goverment but doesn't really help the economy, or maybe just stick in the bank where it doesn't do much either.

Trickle Down economics is the greatest hoax ever pushed in regards to taxes/economics in elections.

[BiggJawn]

11. That's another side of the coin....

let's take that 900,000 small businessowner figure just for grins.

Under the "Cheney Fantasy", if those 900,000 are actually elligible for the 200 Kilobuck Klub, and their tax break is un-molested, And let's say that they take a 100 kilobuck personal salary and fold the OTHER 100 into the business...

Then that means that each one of them ought to be able to "create" 5-8 "new jobs"...

Can the economy absorb the extra productivity those 4,500,000-7,200,000 workers will be producing? If business was THAT good, wouldn't they be expanding their operations already?

I see small businesses struggling and going under around here...

I think the reality is that you MIGHT see a slight uplift in the number of people working for Channel Island and Swiss banks...

[MidwestTransplant]

4. the 900K figure is total BS

It's includes partners in law firms, trusts and Real Estate Partnerships that for example own a bldg., etc.

[mckara]

5. I Read 90% of Small Businesses Would Be Unaffected?

Can anyone confirm that?

[democratreformed]

6. Hell no.

My husband and I own a small business that employs eight people in the summer (contracting) and four for part of the winter.

I work for another contractor to help pay our bills. I do not get paid for the work I do for our company.

Both of us, together, come nowhere close to the $200,000 mark. Although, I do have hope for SOMEDAY :).

[footinmouth]

7. Correct me if I'm wrong ...

I believe the argument was that the small business owners were claiming the income from their business as "personal" income, rather than "business" income. Mr footinmouth used to be a small business owner and he told me if he had been making that much money, he would certainly have incorporated and separated the business income from personal income (and personal liability).

The loss of tax cut would only apply to personal income, not business income. I'm no accountant, but it makes sense to me that you would take a personal salary below the $200,000 limit and shelter the rest in the business. That's how I understand it, but feel free to correct me if I'm full of crap on this one.

[sandnsea]

10. That's what Bush said

They'd just hire fancy accountants and shift their money around to avoid taxes anyway.

Yes, you're absolutely right. If an S-Corp got to the point where they had to claim $200,000 a year in income, they'd just go to a regular corporation and invest back into the business.

[durutti]

8. The small business lobby is controlled by big business. n/t

[napi21]

9. Everyone's missing the BIG difference between personal and business taxes.

Most people pay their taxes based upon a W2, and maybe a 1099 statement. There's no room for deviation in either of those forms.

When you own a business of any size, income & expenses are catagorized to show PROFIT! Profit is what you pay taxes on. There are many many things that can be expensed to reduce income (profit). Take a friend, including both your families) to dinner, and that friend becomes a business associate, and the dinners become an expense. There are thousands of similar situations that can enable even a small business to have quite a large income, but a relatively small profit.

[lectrobyte]

12. Can someone tell me for a 200K income, how much the tax cut

amounts to? It seems to me if you are clearing 200K profit on a small business, the tax cut savings aren't determining whether you hire someone extra etc.

[TahitiNut]

13. Lawyers, Accountants, Lobbyists, Doctors, & other personal "businesses" ..

... comprise the vast majority of "small businesses" that would be affected. "Professional Corporations." These people employ very few others -- quite often only a spouse, sibling, or child. They "incorporate" their personal lives. They drive a "company car" on weekends fueled on a "company credit card." They take their friends and family to "business dinners." They watch professional sports from "company seats" at the stadium. They vacation in Miami or Honolulu on a "business trip." They have a "company membership" at Sam's Club and the Country Club.


This is your so-called "ownership society." I have a couple of these people in my family and know the game well.

[BiggJawn]

15. These the people with the H-2's with stuff like...

...."Balloon Greetings by Judy" vinylled on the side windows (doesn't mess-up the paint) that they get the up-to-$100,000 exemption on for "business use"?

Like you really NEED a fuckin' H-2 Penis-mobile to deliver BALLOON BOUQUETS!

[jmowreader]

14. Very, very few small businesses will get the $200k windfall

Example: my old job. We did $3 million a year in business. Put that at the top of your tax return.

Now deduct ordinary and necessary business expenses.

By the time we were done, we paid taxes on less than four thousand dollars. (And we paid on the same amount in the Clinton years.) Hence the vaunted tax cut that was supposed to create all of these new jobs didn't even reach us.

On the other hand, the guy who ran the shop, who took home about $125,000, got a major tax cut from Bush.

There is a maximum average annual income that a small business can earn (this is pre-tax) before it's no longer considered a small business--and only a company that does services like accounting or stockbrokerage would be able to go into the Bush-windfall after deducting expenses without going over on the average annual income side. Anyone who deals in goods has that pesky Cost of Goods Sold to deal with.