What do they mean when the ysay 'Hanoi John'?

[Deja Q]

What did soon-President Kerry do in Vietnam to deserve the nickname?

And what can we call * in return? La-la-land Bush* comes to mind. :shrug:

[flamingyouth]

1. Jane Fonda was called Hanoi Jane for traveling to N. Vietnam

so it's a tie-in to that. I don't have all night to sit here and type out what we could call the AWOL usurper in return... ;)

[TahitiNut]

13. It really has almost NOTHING to do with her (apparent) anti-war stance.

(I know you didn't say it did, luv. I just got keyboard diahrrea as I was replying here.) :hi:

It has to do not only with the fact that she visited (without any kind of clearance) North Vietnam (including Hanoi) during the war, but that she also did two radio broadcasts (demeaning and smearing US troops in South Vietnam - much like Tokyo Rose) from North Vietnam and was photographed in various settings, including sitting in the seat of an anti-aircraft battery.


Jane Fonda was a pin-up girl. She was part of what guys dreamed about in getting back to the US. Barbarella. Then she smeared us.

I, for one, felt betrayed.

Betrayal is the word that I believe describes what most of us felt "coming home." Our trust that "We the People" would risk our lives only in just wars was betrayed. For most of us, the trust we had in girlfriends and wives was betrayed.

Then, along with betrayal, we got blamed. All of us.

Yes, atrocities were committed and covered up on all sides (US, ARVN, VC, NVA, RoK, Anzac, etc.) - but by a small minority: 1-2% at the very most. And yes, the fall guys for US atrocities that couldn't be covered up were always the enlisted grunts and the occasional junior officer (like Calley). But there's absolutely no question that the senior command (both US and RVN) promulgated and covertly supported those atrocities. None.

When we "came home" we were met by a public that partly, unable to control their own government's entry into an illicit war, went again to the bottom of the "authority totem pole" (the troops) and called us "baby killers." The other part of the public treated us as "losers": an embarrassment to AmeriKa. Scattered throughout the public were those who didn't "want to talk about it" and didn't "want to get involved." All of them turned their back. The guy who 'romanced' my wife did so by playing upon her alienation from others as a 'poor girl' whose husband, without the 'courage' to run to Canada or the 'smarts' to avoid the draft, was over there in a losing war and complicit in war crimes.


Jane Fonda became a voluntary and eager archetype for that betrayal. Despite her rhetoric in support of the Vietnamese people, she never lifted a finger to help Vietnamese refugees ("boat people"). I regard her as an opportunist and hypocrite.


John Kerry didn't behave like a hypocrite. He sure as hell earned the 'right' to voice his opinion. He NEVER smeared all the troops like Jane did. His testimony before Congress was about what hundreds of other vets told him they did - many at the Winter Soldier meeting in Detroit. His trip to Paris and short meetings with the North Vietnamese diplomatic mission there was with clearance. He never smeared the troops and never sat for photo ops in North Vietnam and never broadcast like Tokyo Rose.

When the right attempts to smear Kerry by equating him to Jane Fonda, THEY'RE LYING.

[RaleighNCDUer]

16. And if Hanoi John isn't Hanoi Jane, neither is Jane Fonda. She

has long since recognized how naive she was, and how she let herself get used by NV propagandists. She really thought she was acting in support of the anti-war movement at the time. Since then she publicly apologized to our vets.

Few heard her, or believe her.

[TahitiNut]

17. WADR... bull!

She made limp-wristed statements on Barbara Walters 20/20 and then in Oprah's magazine. The first time, sixteen f*cking years after her trip, was an attempt at 'damage control' because the movie (she was in) being filmed on location was being protested by Vietnam Vets. The second time, only a few years ago, was the same lame crap.

Both times she merely said she was young (so what?) and regretted that anyone felt bad.

Big deal.

Hit someone with your car.
Tell them you're sorry they feel pain.
Drive on.

---

There is no valid or ethical comparison between what Jane did and what the VVAW protestors did. None.

---

Here's what she said in August 1988 to Barbara Walters on 20/20:

""Well ... it's not ... I would like to say something not just to ... the Vietnam veterans ... in New England ... but ... to ... to men who were in Vietnam who ... who I hurt ... or who's pain I caused to ... deepen because of things I said ... or did ... I ... I feel that I owe them an apology ... my intentions were never to hurt them ... or to make their situation worse, it was ... it was the contrary ... I was trying to help end the war ... but there were times when I was thoughtless and careless about it and I ... and I am very sorry ... that I hurt them ... and I want to apologize to them and to their families ...."

Barbara Walters remarked, "Somehow I don't think they will accept your apology."

At the time, Fonda was filming "Stanley and Iris" on location in a number of blue-collar New England towns. Production on the movie was being severely disrupted by protesting veterans and this was causing a serious problem for the film. Fonda decided that something had to be done, so she went on 20/20.

Here's what she said in August 2000 in Oprah's 'O' Magazine:

"I will go to my grave regretting the photograph of me in an antiaircraft carrier (sic), which looks like I was trying to shoot at American planes. That had nothing to do with the context that photograph was taken in. But it hurt so many soldiers. It galvanized such hostility. It was the most horrible thing I could possibly have done. It was just thoughtless. I wasn't thinking. I was just so bowled over by the whole experience that I didn't realize what it would look like."

---

I'm a Vietnam Vet and I get a bit pissed when those who aren't have the unmitigated chutzpah to pretend to accept her (non-)apology on my behalf.

[nostamj]

2. RW/freeper attempt to tie Kerry to Fonda

who was called "hanoi jane" for meeting with the VC during the war

[NMDemDist2]

3. Jane Fonda went to VN at the height of the war and posed for pics

with AA guns and other unfortunate things.

They started calling her "Hanoi Jane" so the "Hanoi John" is a play on words

somewhat like the bumpersticker i saw last week "I'm not FONDA Kerry"

[Deja Q]

6. the one I saw said

"I'm not Fonda Hanoi John"

Sad group of people, these reprick republicons...

[ThomWV]

4. Jane Fonda

During the Viet Nam war Jane Fonda was refered to as Hanoi Jane by the right who held with Nixon to the bitter end. This is simply a take off on that name and an attempt to associate John Kerry with Jane Fonda, a woman who the brain dead think comitted treason.

[TahitiNut]

14. Wrong.

The pro- and anti-war contingents were NOT congruent to right and left, or Republican and Democratic in those days. There were both pro- and anti-war people in both parties.

Please ... don't take today's divisions and think that they were the same then.

[NightTrain]

5. They mean, "I'm an ignorant jerk-off and can't think for myself."

:grr::nuke:

[dave502d]

7. It mean their sick in the head.

They just can't get over the fact that Kerry knew the war was no good,
All he did was try and stop it.So I say fuck them.

[dave502d]

8. It mean their sick in the head.

They just can't get over the fact that Kerry knew the war was no good,
All he did was try and stop it.So I say fuck them.

[dave502d]

9. It mean their sick in the head.

They just can't get over the fact that Kerry knew the war was no good,
All he did was try and stop it.So I say fuck them.

[dave502d]

10. Sorry about the same replys

[emulatorloo]

11. It means they think the Vietnam war was Great and we should be there

still today!

[Barney Rocks]

12. a freeper said something

about Jane Fonda that I didn't know if it was true or not. Can someone help me? Is it true that she was given some kind of a ring by the North Vietnamese when she visited? And if so--why is this a big deal? I don't get it....

[jdj]

15. meme, meme, meme, meme, lie, lie, lie

[Vickers]

18. It means, "George W. Bush was too much of a pussy to go into combat"

Well, that's what it means to ME.