would anyone here support splitting the US in two?

[leftofthedial]

give the neocon, neofascist, theocratic fundies their own country

and have another for the progressives

Seriously, could it be done somehow? How? Would it necessarily have to be geographical? If it was, where would the borders be drawn?

[lilymidnite]

1. I vote Alcatraz island for the fundies

[Dutch Courage]

6. Ha ha ha ha ha

[cidliz2004]

10. No, How about Texas, Arizona for a new country for all of the

Repubs??? Let them deal with the immigration problems in their own country AND Texas is sure big enough to hold allof them!

[atreides1]

28. Hey

How about this Arizona Democrat kicking your a**.

Let's send them to your house instead, and they can start from there.

[blondeatlast]

34. No kidding...

Let me know if you need some assistance!

[leftofthedial]

37. don't worry. You can trade your Arizona house

for a nice mobile home in rural Massachusetts somewhere.

Just kidding. I don't know how it would work. Balkanization is sure a messy prospect.

But I find myself hating the repukes about as much as Serbs seemed to hate Croats.

[cidliz2004]

68. Last I checked your state wasn't going to support Kerry

and you are next to Texas and border Mexico. So logically if we were to divide, Texas is big enough to hold all of the riecht wingers and we'll be generous and include Arizona so that they won't be crowded. The immigration (illegal immigration) starts at YOUR boarders as well as Texas, so let the problem be solved where it originates! Why should I 1000 - 2000 miles away have to deal with it? I live in a blue state anyway. The red states divide the nation literally, so that wouldn't be a good idea, dividing the nation anyway. Don't want to give up California, (another blue state and a economic powerhouse). Texas is red, Arizona is red, the economic value overall to the country isn't that much to lose and they physically could be cut out without having to draw a line through the middle of the country. If the Democrats in those states don't like it we would more than welcome them here in the rest of the country. Texas is a shoe in, Arizona was just trying to be nice to the new Red country.

If you don't like my suggestion, that is your right, but you don't have to get so hostile and threatening about it. I am using pure logic and nothing else.

[leftofthedial]

69. umm Arizona is about 500 miles from Texas

You have to cross the entire state of New Mexico in between

But AZ IS bushturd country.

Now if we are going to argue over this simple matter of splitting the world's largest economy and military power in two, I'll just send you all to your rooms right now!

[cidliz2004]

75. Oh well, was never very good a geography

Maybe Arizona could be a purple state -

[leftofthedial]

76. No worries

we New Mexicans are used to it.

Much of Arizona is classic wack-job freeper bushturdland. If we drew lines just by red and blue states, it would be a red state.

[cidliz2004]

117. Check out the map

You are right and I never doubted it, But there is such a small sliver of NM between Arizona and Texas that you could slice that off and include that to. New Mexico would not be affected too much and honestly that part that is affected is connected to Mexico, so that would alleviate thier problem with immigration!

See, not so big a problem after all!

[atreides1]

119. Not In Pima County

Up north in Maricopa is where you'll find most of the wack-jobs.

[blondeatlast]

32. I love my state, they can't have it! (Arizona) nt

[leftofthedial]

58. well the fundies already stole the Grand Canyon

and gave it to Noah!

Plus, they can have Phoenix and good riddance.

(used to live there, so I'm entitled)

[hippiegranny]

61. ahem...

as an Arizonian... I resemble that remark. I doubt you can pick a state that will not get a similar reaction. "WE" are everywhere.

[leftofthedial]

70. so would you want to move to the blue country

or stay "covert" in the red country?

[blondeatlast]

79. We aren't so covert. Went Blue in '92, and if the majority votes,

we'll do it again.

And I display my blue-ness everywhere but at my home, I have a child who has been hassled about it in his own yard.

By adults.

[leftofthedial]

80. I'm not demeaning AZ or you AZ Democrats

Every state is actually a shade of purple.

But we seem to be such a bitterly divided country that I don't see how we will ever be able to solve the serious problems we face, much less build for the future.

Any "progress" that is made by whichever group you happen to support will be fought tooth and nail by the other side and then undone as soon as they can seize power.

why not just agree to disagree and, in effect, get a divorce?

[alittlelark]

86. What about NM!!!

Right in the middle!!

[leftofthedial]

96. NM is invisible

LOL

I've been dealing with that all my life

[alittlelark]

108. I grew up there, and still have to occasionally

explain that it IS A STATE!

[Ilsa]

106. Stupid Texans already have an email on this,

Really corny BS, that they can have their own space program with NASA there, own energy, plenty of farmland, etc. Then they mention "...and we could make Bush our leader in perpetuity..."

[The Wielding Truth]

116. Sounds good to me I don't live in Texas and don't want the US of Texas

we have now.
I think the "string'em up it'll teach em a lesson" attitude of this administration is so 1950's redneck. This ego driven
"hate anybody that isn't me cause I'm so right mind set will destroy our union and democracy.
Trust that JohnFKerry can pull us together,cause these close minded closet bullies have done their best to divide and conquer.
I can't get past their lies.

[Maestro]

124. No, I live in Texas

Send the rethuglicans to Alaska.

[69KV]

126. Never

Don't send em here to the southwest, I'll just send 'em back. We need to make every state blue, and that includes Texas. It's possible and it's almost been done before:

http://uselectionatlas.org/USPRESIDENT/national.php?year=1932
http://uselectionatlas.org/USPRESIDENT/national.php?year=1936
http://uselectionatlas.org/USPRESIDENT/national.php?year=1964

No, I am not in favor of letting the Freeptards have *any* state. Screw them.

[cidliz2004]

13. Sorry Computer acting up

[Out the Parasites]

2. As far as I'm concerned...they could have the middle red states :-)

[donco6]

17. Hey! They can't have Colorado.

But I'd volunteer Idaho.

[leftofthedial]

25. and Wyoming LOL

I want to keep New Mexico and Colorado though

[donco6]

39. Yeah, I never go to Wyoming anyway.

:)

Just teasing, you Wyomingans. Wyomingites? You people who live in Wyoming.

[Cha]

59. I've never seen a DUer from Wyoming..

that doesn't mean they don't exist but I just realized that!

[donco6]

65. Surely there must be SOMEONE!

But now that you mention it, I don't think I've ever seen one either.

[Cha]

73. Yeah, there is..I just went to the States

and under Wyoming..I saw someone from "Laramie"..

[fishwax]

107. Well, I grew up in Wyoming

But I no longer live there. (Oklahoma instead. Oy. :shrug:)

But anyway, they can't have Wyoming. They would screw up some of the most beautiful (not to mention geologically significant) land in the country. Give them SouthEast Wyoming. It's ugly and mostly unpopulated, but we must keep Yellowstone, the Tetons, and the Big Horn Mountains. :D

[leftofthedial]

71. baaaaaaa!

baaaaaaa!

[Out the Parasites]

87. well ok not colorado...but no the rest..they can have them as long as

we get to keep the coasts and most of the good ski areas.

[Worst Username Ever]

3. Nah, that would create more econimic and violence problems

than we have even seen from 4 years of Bush. Kerry need to repair to country.

[gospelized]

4. ummmm

that would mean we would have to live with neocon foriegn policy.

no thanks.

[leftofthedial]

48. true, but they'd be much weaker

and we'd could ally with other enlightened nations to counter them more easily

I mean we have to live with the domestic consequences of it already.

[hatrack]

5. Sure, we get the United States, they get Block Island & South Carolina

That should be enough space for most of them, anyway.

[Dark]

7. Aren't some fundies trying to secede right now from South Carolina?

Great idea. Worked so well last time. . . :eyes:

[Shopaholic]

15. In case you haven't noticed. . it is a divided country already

in everything but geography.

And hey, there are Democrats here in South Carolina too!

[leftofthedial]

27. it is because we are divided

that I ask the question

[Cha]

60. As well you should...it sounds very

tempting! I think we were talking about this before..maybe in the 2002 elections.

I think Kerry will win but the neo fascists won't stop there..they will spend four years Dumping on him..and it will probably make the Clinton years seem like kindergarten.

And this is what the groper wants for our Country!

[Anarcho-Socialist]

8. Only as an absolute last resort

[Bucky]

9. No, no, hell no.

I believe in converting sinners, not shipping 'em off. Geographic partition of a country is far too Apartheidy for practical people like Americans. 90% of the electorate loves their country more than their ideology, so at least 90% of the country would say "fuck off" to any such stoopid suggestion as rounding up and exporting everyone who happens to disagree with you.

Really, what an obtuse suggestion.

[leftofthedial]

18. do you think you can convert a freeper?

do you think 150 million enlightened people can convert and assimilate 100 million delusional, irrational fundie-freeper-extremists into civilized society?

Apartheid didn't create two sovereign nations. It segregated one nation. I'm talking about mutual secession, if you want to think of it that way. Not one group expelling another.

[The Straight Story]

90. Should we convert? Sounds a lot like religion.

[leftofthedial]

98. sounds a lot like mental illness

or some sort of congenital defect

[Mike L]

95. I got a Fundie in SC to vote for Inez Tenenbaum for senate.

However, the Fundie used to be a Dem in Tennessee many years ago, so I had an advantage with her.

[kendric]

115. convert a freeper?

Do you thing we really nned to covert 100 million? I don't thing there's that many. The views on DU and on Free Republic are probably more like 2 percent of the country. Most in the HUGE middle don't care.

[cidliz2004]

19. How many hard line Reicht Wingers have you really talked to?

They don't love their country 1st and foremost, they love their ideologhy 1st and foremost. Think about how they are supporting a President that is RUINING this country?!!!!! I mean, if you love this country, truly love it, you WOULD NOT be supporting 43'.

[seabeyond]

11. if we have learned anything in time, seperation doesnt work

ever

[leftofthedial]

23. It's working pretty well for the Czech Republic and Slovakia

It worked pretty well for some of the Baltic States

[Coyote_Bandit]

12. I Live in a Red State

it is comforting to know that there are many others elsewhere in the country that share my views. Please don't abandon me.

[Qanisqineq]

56. don't worry

I've lived in 4 red states and one blue state. People need to understand that red states are not 100% red, nor are they even 75% red. Just like blue states are not 100% blue, nor are they 75% blue. Some red states have democratic senators and representatives or governors while many blue states have republican senators, governors, and representatives. If these states were so blue, why do they have these republicans in office?

My 2 cents. I just wish people would get over the red state bashing.

[Cha]

62. I realize what you're saying..

I'm not condemning red states..only a red state of mind.

[Qanisqineq]

64. thank you

[Starlight]

14. The first thing they'd do would be to bomb the blue states...

and steal the property. They're like that. :nuke:

[ClintonTyree]

16. Wouldn't work.......................

after we built a Utopian Society where things were fair, everyone was fed, clothed, housed, had good paying jobs, higher education was valued........the Slugs would bomb the hell out of is, take it away and flush that down the crapper along with their own country that would undoubtedly be a piece of shit.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to do it. But those butt wads never play fair and they'd screw it up for us somehow, that's all they're good at is destroying things.

[Slit Skirt]

21. sure.....

then we could invade them, blow up their cities, kill their civilians, and show them what "democracy" is all about..and shove it down their throats even if they might not want it...........oh, forgot to mention the part about crushing the Bush regime based on his terrorist's ties as well as....torture for the innocent.

[leftofthedial]

29. they'd start out by infiltrating all the trailer parks

with freeper stealth insurgents

[Toby109]

103. One tin soldier rides away...

[siliconefreak]

20. I would go for it

The problem is that we'd be like Bosnia - fragmented and bulkanized. If all of the Dems lived in one area of the country, it would be much more practical.

I can see some combination of California, Oregon, and Washington wanting to form their own union sometime in the future.

[cidliz2004]

24. No leave the oceans states alone for the most part

Just let it be Texas and Arizona, that would be just perfect.

[Sick_of_Rethuggery]

22. There is probably no other alternative.

Did you all see the thread about rethug ignorance? How do we govern ourselves effectively if we will not ensure that we get the truth?

[movonne]

26. Yes especially if bush steals this thing again....but don't know

how it could be done...the problem is as soon as we have everything nice on our side these rubugs would try and move in.

[Ksec]

30. I vote for giving them a few Southern states.

Not Florida though.

[redstateblues]

38. Not TN please- we're trying to do better-We Got Dem Gov!!

[leftofthedial]

47. I'd keep parts of Nashville and Memphis

but they can have the rest

Just kidding.

[kitkatrose]

104. Yeah, we also have the Smokies

and lots of trees. :)

[Arkana]

31. Good

They can have Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming, and we'll take the rest.

[DS1]

121. I'm waaaay more generous

I'd ~keep~ New England, Michigan, Minnesota, Illinois, Ohio, Penn, New Jersey, Delaware, Washington, California, and Hawaii. They can have the rest.

[many a good man]

33. How about semi-autonomous regions?

Its being done all over the world: the nation-state's natural evolution is toward a loose federation of smaller semi-autonomous mini-states. The smaller scale is more conducive to democratic participation, and fosters a sense of identity and community.

I don't think it'll ever fly in this country because the red states are net takers from the federal treasury even though they complain the loudest about taxes...

[leftofthedial]

45. interesting idea

do you mean to split into several regions instead of two countries and share a collective but much smaller than now federal government?

I was thinking almost the opposite. That the division not be geographic at all. Eveyone stay where you are or go wherever you want. Local government--streets, sanitation, education? (hmm; problem there), etc. would be shared by everyone locally much like now, but at a federal level, we would have two distinct separate governments--each with its own taxes, foreign policy, military, healthcare, etc. Each person would decide which "country" they wanted to be part of.

[carpetbagger]

113. Uh, they screwed that up royally. Remember slavery?

Then there's that picky little Jim Crow thing.

The only thing that makes life here in Texas tolerable is the enforcement of constitutional freedoms.

[Steelangel]

35. Well, if give the neocons, neofascist, theocratic fundies

their own country.. within 5-10 years, more than half of them will escape and beg us to let them in. Also they will ask us for help right after they utterly destroy the environment and have health problem crisis, high crimes, etc etc..

that will never work, it will be better off for us if we dump them on the isolated planet such as Mars (red planet :P) or somewhere and let them handle their own problems.

[Cuban_Liberal]

36. It's been tried.

It was called the Civil War. No, thanks.

:eyes:

[redstateblues]

41. good comment- I hope were not heading that way

[leftofthedial]

42. that was one-sided though

what if both sides wanted to separate?

Like a national divorce.

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[leftofthedial]

52. no. why?

know where I can get some? just asking

[Cha]

63. LOL!

:smoke:

[kixot]

78. I wish.

I'm out right now and the current drought makes things edgier.

[leftofthedial]

81. not to mention the economy

all this talk about the high cost of prescription drugs

doesn't anyone care about the cost of nonprescription drugs!?

Cheers :toast:

[rndmprsn]

43. No i love this country to much...

but i would have nothing against shipping all the RW wacko's someplace else and letting them found their own country...maybe call it the rejected states of america...or how about Heaven on earth?

[MoonRiver]

44. Yes!

I'd feel like I'd died and gone to heaven, literally.

[NV Whino]

46. I support taking a chainsaw to Florida

and letting it float on down to Cuba. Having first saved the good guys and repopulating it with all the neo cons.

[kixot]

50. Sure, Cuba will welcome us with open arms.

:eyes:

[naufragus]

49. just turn idaho into a labor camp

send all the fundies there...then we can be competitive with the chinese

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

51. No - I think we need more education

We need to teach real history and science in our public schools, particularly in the bible belt. We need to expose young kids to world literature and philosophy. We need to encourage cultivation of the intellect and eliminate proms, football, and other time-wasters from our high schools. For that, we need leadership.

Even though I disagree with intellectual conservatives, I at least have respect for them. I have no respect for the masses of ignorant anti-intellectuals who flock to hear the Chimp perform his primitive rituals who never question anything he says.

[leftofthedial]

54. can't argue with education

but hwo do we get the anti-progressives and anti-intellectuals out of the way long enough to institute change?

The status quo ensures that our society will always make less than the best decision, if not a downright disastrous decision. Is that sustainable going forward? Or does that doom us to failure and possible destruction?

[unfrigginreal]

53. As long as we don't get stuck with Utah it's fine by me.

[tedoll78]

55. We could give them one state, perhaps?

Texas? Who'd miss Texas? Really?

I live here. Besides Austin, there really isn't much I'd miss..
(no offense..)

[leftofthedial]

57. Austin would be about it

would borders necessarily have to be contiguous. Maybe Austin could stay part of the blue country while the rest of Texas became red. Colorado Springs could stay part of the red country while the rest of Colorado became blue.

[Sean Reynolds]

66. Just as long as Salt Lake City gets to stay with the lefties!

I don't care if you take the rest of Utah...or Salt Lake County for that matter.

[jdots]

82. No one would take them

Give them Venus i have had the same thought many times,but what scares me is they want us to go to hell and leave them alone so they can return to the dark ages and be royalty.
It is our job in a way to save the planet from little plots like thiers and fuck em if they can't take a joke.

[Onlooker]

67. Absolutely not

The neocon nation would attack us again and again, and each time we negotiated peace, they would simply lie, steal, and do what ever was necessary to attack us again. Further, the neocons, neofascists, and fundies need us to prevent them from devolving into a society that sacrifices their children for some perverted form of martyrdom.

[cidliz2004]

72. Hey if we did divide, how would we handle immigration for the Reds

that would want to live in the wonderful new prosperous peaceliving Blue states with us and take advantage of what we have created? Would we let them in and under what circumstances?

[leftofthedial]

99. check your assault weapons at the border

I'd have very liberal immigration policies

But I'd also have a very robust Constitution

[leftofthedial]

74. sounds like a miniseries on the Sci Fi Channel

but without the ray guns

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

77. I would support expanding the US instead

I think eventually we will form a type of confederation with Central America, the Caribbean, Mexico and Canada, similar to the European Union, with free travel and work authorization throughout the region and the ability to establish businesses and own property in any area. A common system of laws and a shared economy would follow. I think it's only a matter of time, especially once China becomes a dominant power in the world and the European Union gets their act together.

[Zero Division]

83. No, hell no. Even though I get fed up and fantasize about it occasionally.

It's just not possible without extreme suffering for everyone involved.
Besides, we're not quite to the point where it's necessary. Let's hope we never get to that point.

[Moderator]

84. This is not a campaign-related topic.

This thread is being moved to the
General Discussion forum.


DU Moderator

[leftofthedial]

101. oh so right

my bad

[Soup Bean]

85. I suppose we could call one half "Israel".....

...and the other half "Palestine".

It would be really sad. I think we ought to just start having honest debate in this country and iron out our differences with healthy doses of compromise.

[chaska]

88. We're in the process of doing it already.

I heard a snippet of something on the radio about reapportionment and/or gerrymandering that said that we increasingly self-segregate: blue with blue, red with red.

There are differences between people. I don't think it's a particularly good idea to force people to live together against their will. There is a website and semi-serious movement towards Vermont seccession already. More power to 'em, I say.

Before oil, natural landmarks (rivers, mountain ranges, oceans, etc.)made natural boundaries and natural nations. No reason those boundaries need be observed today, but no reason not to either.

I think people often fail to realize how much of an experimental time we live in. So much of modern society goes against the grain of tens of thousands of years of human development.

They (reptards) want to go and I want to let 'em.

It really is a very interesting and deep question. I wish the intellectual community would take up this issue, and not leave it to the wachos.

[porphyrian]

89. How would we keep them from invading us?

I must admit that the idea is tempting, but I'm not sure we can leave them to their own devices. They'd destroy the world.

[leftofthedial]

100. they'd be much smaller and weaker than the neocons are now

in control of the entire US

[Beaverhausen]

91. No- if they don't like it here they can leave

I love all of this beautiful country and don't want to see us split in two.

[CelticWinter]

92. I cant think of any place I would send them

or any other country either, I wouldnt wish that on any anyone, it would be cruel and unusal punishment.

[prayin4rain]

93. United we stand, divided we fall.

We fall. We fall. Just Kidding. But seriously hell no. Too many people have died for this country for us to give up now.

[leftofthedial]

102. but most of them didn't die for Hawaii or Alaska

so let's give the neos those, or keep them

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

94. Baja Canada on the west and northeast coast? Sounds good to me.

I could even try to say "Eh" with conviction.

[Andy_Stephenson]

110. It would not be hard for me...

living close to Canada...hell I say it all the time anyway.

[cidliz2004]

118. Why would you give the REDS the coastlines therefore the borders?

That makes no sense! Besides how could we GIVE them Canadian Territory, NOT ours to give.

[Mike L]

97. It's been tried before-- didn't work.

[dave502d]

105. No

Them neocon can get the hell out of U.S.A.

[Robeson]

109. Let the Repugs leave and have them go colonize Antarctica

[Andy_Stephenson]

111. Why ruin a perfectly good

continent?

[Robeson]

112. You've got me there. What about the planet Mercury?

:think:

[mike_c]

114. U.S. out of Humboldt County....

Yes, I would gladly secede from the Fascist Fundy States of Amerika. It's not my country anymore.

[DS1]

120. YES! OMG the South would be SO FUCKED after losing the tax

coddling they get from the rest of the country.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

122. That's what I've been dreaming about.....

I'm so tired of being associated with those freeper idiots. They and their President are an embarassment to the rest of us. The reputation of this country has been totally ruined becasue of them.

[slackmaster]

123. We tried that once

Back in the 1860s.

It didn't work out.

Next!

[Pharlo]

125. Think outside the box.....

Due to the foresighted George W., we now have a substantial military presence in Iraq. I say we maximize the opportunities afforded us by the current regime.

1) Declare Iraq our 51st state.

2) Declare this a free land grab sight for any American citizen who can prove a right wing political fundamentalist pro-war attitude.

3) Provide free transportation for these wing nuts to Iraq.

4) Ship 'em out.

5) Declare Iraq an independent state.

6) Remove US troops from Iraq

7) Let gung ho, pro-war wingers use their automatic assault weapons to fight their own damn war.

Voila!

Solved the problem of the wingers and Iraq.

Next....