Ignorance is Conservative Bliss

[Soth]

Okay, so just like everyone else here, I read the poll about Republicans being far more in the dark about reality than Democrats. And I figured, yeah, I guess there are some Republicans like that; but coming from a conservative state, many of my friends and family are Republicans, so I thought it couldn't be possible that the majority actually work that way. I figured they must know most of the facts, and simply believe different things or draw different conclusions. After all, how many could out-and-out ignore the truth?

Enter this week. I get a forwarded e-mail from my conservative parents about how Teresa Heinz Kerry contributes money to extremists and supports terrorist groups. I don't believe it, so I look it up on FactCheck.org, and sure enough, they have an article detailing how the whole thing is fabricated. So I respond to my parents with the FactCheck article, as well as sending a response to everyone else that got forwarded the e-mail (aunts, uncles, and the rest of my conservative family, except for my thankfully liberal older siblings). And the response to this e-mail?

Nothing. From anyone. It's been several days now, and my response has not even been acknowledged.

Earlier today, I started arguing on another board with an extreme right-winger (he believes women should not be allowed to vote, though this wasn't the particular topic we were arguing). He kept saying that my own statements weren't arguments, even though his statements were even further from being actual arguments than mine were. So, finally, I posted on his terms, citing point by point why he was wrong and backing it up with documented evidence. And the response?

Nothing. He's ignored me since that post.

So my question is, is this kind of willful ignorance what others have encountered? Are you DUers used to this kind of thing by now, because it honestly still kind of shocks me. I try to listen to every argument, so long as that argument supports itself with facts. Yet I'm seeing more and more that conservatives could care less about facts. Is this everyone else's experience?

[prayin4rain]

1. Yeah, republicans are people who refuse to confuse themselves with facts.

[sister moon]

2. There is more than one way to interpret silence

Argumentative people usually become silent when confronted with evidence/proof that they are wrong. They suddenly have no reply. You are right to point out the errors in their thinking. We should all do more of that. Hopefully, you have got them thinking.

[Rabrrrrrr]

3. They've rarely, if ever, cared about facts

Not only do they lie about things, they lie about where they got the data to lie with.

cf. Ann Coulter's and Rush's and O'Lielly's books. As Franken points out in his book, they consistently claim that some publication said so and so, and thus they can have the conclusion thus and such. But when Franken went and chekced their sources, they were false. Not just misinterpreted, but false.

And yes, when one gives them a list, with legitimate references, they will indeed clam up. Especially when you can give them references to actual things Shithead McAWOL War Criminal said. Such as Shithead denying he ever said that Osama wasn't a concern, when in fact he did say it, and said it rather damned smugly.

And it goes on and on and on with those assholes.

It's the black and white thinking - they can't handle gray areas at all. So they clam up when their house of cards are prodded; they can't admit "Oh, I was wrong on that one", because in their way of thinking, you can't be wrong on one thing - otherwise everything is automatically suspect, and that's pretty damn scary. So the Bible has to be literally true, because if any one part of it might not be utterly factually true, then the whole thing hasto be thrown away.

But smart people, whose brains are wired properly, can easily hold to an entire framework while also admitting that some of the struts and bricks are in error.

[XanaDUer]

4. Yes.

And, when presented with rational, nonpartisan proof of the absurdity of their positions, came back at me with either profanity ("asshole Clinton"), or telling me that I support terrorism and have betrayed the country AND minor child relatives by voting for Kerry.

:wtf:!!!!!!!

[XanaDUer]

5. Question..?

What is his argument that women should not have the vote?

[Soth]

6. Oh, it was a beauty...

He had two reasons:

1. Women he works with apparently say they're voting for Kerry/Edwards because Edwards is hot.

2. "Women will NOT stand up to the bully and thus we end up with more problems down the road..."

Both of which are obviously completely devoid of common factual evidence. Brilliant, isn't it?

[XanaDUer]

7. Well, some are stading up to the bully Bush..

;)

[charlie]

9. Women will NOT stand up to the bully

Haha. Albright and Thatcher would clip his nuts if he mouths off like that around them.

[Mikimouse]

10. Hey LC, get a load of this...think you'll get a good laugh...

I use this website frequently when I present my gender lectures. Must be taken with a pound of salt, but it is quite real.

http://christianparty.net/19th.htm

:evilgrin: :hi:

[XanaDUer]

11. Um...

not too many signatories, and some of them are writing to complain about the site! Lol! Bizarre, truly bizarre.

I also think we should base voting rights on how much money someone has, not just race and gender.

:eyes:

[XanaDUer]

12. PS

Ironically, I have a female relative who is a physics professor.

[Mikimouse]

14. I haven't checked the signatories lately...

but the site has been there, if memory serves, since 1998 or 1999. My students (especially the women) get a real charge out of it, while I have actually had male students defend it.
You may be interested to know that it was actually openly circulated among some of the students at the other university where I taught for 5 years (Thank the unnamed Gods, not where I am am now!)

[bobbieinok]

21. was that earlier college in TX?

[Mikimouse]

24. Yep, right in the heart of Freeperland....Hi Bobbie!!!!!

:hi:

[porphyrian]

8. Yes, and that's why I fucking hate them.

They've enabled an administration of criminals and traitors to ruin our country for four fucking years. Our kids are going to be cleaning up the mess these assholes have made, and probably our grandkids as well. I fucking hate them all.

[greekspeak]

13. Facts just get in the way. They are confusing and cumbersome

They are boring. It is much more fun to live in fantasy world. Giving tax breaks to rich people trickles down. Sadaam Hussein and Osama are gay lovers, so lets bomb Iraq. Libruls are taking away our religion and want to ban the Bible. All I do is pay taxes.

Why listen to facts, when we can all live in this Reich Wing utopia full of good little June Cleaver Stepford wives and husbands coming home from the office with a head full of Brylcreem, white houses on every corner, white people in every house, and a sock hop for Buzz and Kitten every Friday night down at the soda shop. Everyone gets married right out of Christian College and immediately starts spurting out offspring that will grow up just like Mom and Dad and Buzz and Kitten. No abortion, because nobody has sex until they are married. No gay people...they would be weeded out. Everyone goes to First Fundevangelical Protestant Church 5 times a week, because it is the law. But because nobody ever breaks the law, people forget it even exists. Just like they forget such utopias are fig newtons of their maroonic little imaginations. Isn't fantasy fun time great?

[Gemini Cat]

15. Conservatism is emotionalism as well.

Conservatives or right wingers hate to think. Facts... they don't trust. If their preacher, teacher, and or favourite right winged radio said it, they will believe it and it's settled in their minds from now on.

[leftofthedial]

16. agressively ignorant--there are four possible reasons

1. They are mentally defective and incapable of reason--delusional. retarded in some way, extremely stupid.

2. They are single-issue zealots, who will refuse to change their opinion no matter what.

3. They are "evil"--either racist or sociopathic and actually derive pleasure from advocating the worst possible outcome.

4. they are among the million or so murkans who actually benefit from the bushturd's policies and have no social conscience.

[Disturbed]

17. Ronald Reagan

His statement although it may havwe been in jest that facts are stupid sums it up. Many people have a mind set that does not allow any contradictions to it prevail. Facts are brushed aside.

I stopped debating with any Right Wingers many months ago because I found that it was useless to do so and it took too much energy and time and was extremely infuriating.

[tom_paine]

18. 5th possibilty

5. The Busheviks have for 25 years constructed the Propaganda Edifice of Goebbels v2.0 from "think tanks" to their own party-Loyal Sub-Medai to the substantial number of them busy parasitizing and destroying the wretched remnant of the Mainstream Media and more...

...this is the most owerful Drone Programmer and Lie Laundry humans have ever designed, quite dwarfing the Nazis and Soviets in size and the subtlty of technique.

Orwell's vision is almost come true and the Animal Farm is open for business.

Like the Nazi and Soviets machines one whic the Bushevik machine is founded, it is designed to make a person "unconvertable", unable to ever embrace reason again. ALL inconvenient facts from Non-Party Soucres are automatically dismissed, thus NOTHING can ever get inside.

And they are forever enslaved to it. "Drinking the Kool Aid".

This is Mass marketing, Public Relations and Psychomaniupkative Advertising at work. Orwell's vision.

And THAT is why more and more, arguing with a Bushevik is no different with arguing with a Nazi or Soviet.

[leftofthedial]

25. the neocon lie machine infects people with #1

makes them mentally defective

[sandnsea]

27. That would be it

Although I sum it up with "Reaganism".

[TahitiNut]

19. "Conservatives" are made in elementary school

Think back. The kid that resented "teacher's pet" because he wasn't. The kid who hated the kids that got good grades - because, after all, he was entitled to an 'A' except for the stupid teacher. The kid that hated the 'nerds' because of the way they 'looked' - not cool like him.

Anti-intellectualism is born in grade school, and nurtured by "me first" parenting. For such kids/people, it's never really about learning; it's about being "boss." Cliques. Biggest toys. Fads. Logos. By far, the most of what's "learned" in elementary school is "It's who you know, not what you know" ... and self-indulgence is the goal.

These are today's "flat-earthers" - and they can just burn the others at the stake.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

23. You are so right about that

It became clear to me after only a short while teaching college that a lot of students (and their parents!) simply wanted The Good Grade as a stepping stone to a good job, preferably without learning anything, and even more preferably without having their assumptions challenged.

Students' stubborn and insistent lack of intellectual curiosity was my greatest frustration as a classroom teacher. They avoided chances for intellectual enrichment, even if the opportunities were made easy and affordable for them. Townspeople responded better to the campus's opportunities much more readily than the students did. Townspeople, not students, packed the halls when the likes of Jimmy Carter, Elie Wiesel, Helmut Schmidt, Alan Hovhanness, Amy Tan, Wendy Wasserstein, and Studs Terkel spoke on campus.

It is not hard to imagine my intellectually lazy students as Bush voters. Interestingly, the one Bush voter of my siblings is the one who since early childhood always valued fitting in with the crowd over anything else.

[HEIL PRESIDENT GOD]

20. They don't need facts. Here's why:

They agree that they all agree and disagree with us. What they are "conserving" is their socioeconomic status. Pure inertia will keep them where they are, and they like where they are. So all they have to do is sit and exercise their power in "passive mode" and stonewall any opposition. They have no stake in information, because information per se has the tendency to foster change.

[ElectroPrincess]

22. CNN must have received a call from KKKarl Rove this AM

I switched between World News International and CNN. WNI (Canada) was reporting that the woman hostage Hassan (Care) begged Tony Blair to not allow the British Troops in Bagdad. HOWEVER, CNN's talking heads said with great authority, "There were NO specific demands from the kidnappers."

Gosh, best to put away my tin foil hat but the above seems in line with the numerous suicide bombings and scores of Iraqi National Guard troops being wasted, but miraculously, only "wounded" US Troops are reported from our Corporate USA Media.

Weird Mahn!

[m berst]

26. They have no point of view

I have noticed this same thing. I don't think they have a point of view to defend or an argument to make, they just have phrases that are designed to derail supposed liberal arguments. When that doesn't work for them, they have nothing else to say because there is no philosophy or thinking involved in any of this for them. Once they have run out of catchy little phrases to throw at you, their quiver is empty and they have no way to replenish it until they plug back in to Rush.