27 Florida Counties with superior Democratic Registration vote

[Tony_FLADEM]

for Bush?

1st line - voter registration
2nd line - how voted for president


GOP DEM

Baker 3,126 8,926
7,738 2,180


Bradford 4,168 9,039
7,553 3,244


Calhoun 993 6,879
3,780 2,116


Columbia 10,737 19,374
16,753 8,029



DeSoto 3,787 8,838
5,512 3,910


Dixie 1,454 7,495
4,433 1,959


Franklin 1,212 5,893
3,472 2,400


Gilchrist 2,750 5,295
4,934 2,016


Glades 1,479 3,867
2,443 1,718



Gulf 2,557 6,464
4,794 2,398



Hamilton 1,140 6,029
2,792 2,260



Hardee 2,779 6,630
5,047 2,148



Hendry 5,279 9,688
5,756 3,960


Holmes 2,344 7,988
6,410 1,810


Jackson 5,962 19,411
12,115 7,552



Lafayette 570 3,570
2,460 845




Levy 6,241 13,503
10,408 6,073



Liberty 320 3,597
1,927 1,070


Madison 1,695 9,042
4,196 4,048



Okeechobee 5,537 10,891
6,987 5,151


Osceola 42,462 52,064
43,108 38,617


Putnam 12,728 26,184
18,305 12,409


Suwannee 5,885 13,941
11,153 4,521


Taylor 2,170 8,679
5,466 3,049

Union 1,291 5,331
3,396 1,251


Wakulla 3,730 10,293
6,777 4,896

Washington 3,666 9,668
7,368 2,912

[BOHICA06]

1. Every One Optic Scan ...

Pick one and count the votes.

[goclark]

5. Need a Visual Recount Day in at least one county

Have everyone that voted for Kerry come to a meeting and sign a loyalty oath.

[DaveinMD]

2. many of those counties

are filled with dixiecrats.

[Hog lover]

4. Explain where these counties are

Also, how does this compare with 2000 D vs. R votes, if you know?

[DaveinMD]

11. I saw a post

in the other discussion forum how many of them went for Dole over Clinton.

There are tons of Dixiecrat voters left. Not many officeholders, but many haven't changed their registrations.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

31. Baker is in the panhandle....

It seems that a lot of them are pretty similar to what happened in 2000 percentage-wise. There were huge number gains in votes for Kerry and also Bush, however, over 2000.

[Hello_Kitty]

8. I just don't believe there are that many "Dixie-crats" left.

Plus some of those counties have large African-American and Hispanic populations.

[BOHICA06]

12. Hamilton County

Has a large African American population, but is still 58% white - it is one of the closer contests listed. Look up Gadsden County - majority African American and went dark blue in 2004 - also because they got robbed in 2000!

[Hog lover]

3. Never mind - I understand eom

[ShaneGR]

6. You forgot they were registered as pre-Reagan Democrats

Old Style DixieCrats who started voting Republican in the 80s. There are tens of thousands of them all over north Florida. Some of them voted Clinton, but I know for a fact those people were not about to vote for Kerry.

[tridim]

7. The results were flipped

There's no doubt about it. Either they were flipped in the booths (the wrong punch cards were used) or flipped in the optical scanner software. Both methods will be easy to test.

[BOHICA06]

10. Count Away ....

...ask for the ballots. But these are small, rural, and fundamental counties where Catholics are still called Papists and Episcopalians are akin to Devil Worshipers.

[CAcyclist]

13. Get this into the hands of the little local papers

If the data's been flipped, its so extreme the locals will know it - I am sure the data's been flipped. Most of the Southern states' dixiecrats have reregistered as republicans - why would Florida be a hold out?

[Fla_Democrat]

9. Cough

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2499161#2500936

Let me handle the ones I know. Franklin, Gulf, Liberty, Taylor and Wakulla did. The problem with using those counties as sterling examples is that you are assuming that the Democratic party members living there even remotely resemble the members of DU. They are conservative Democrats. They will not change party to match ideology, since Florida is a closed primary state.

[Straight Shooter]

14. Tony, why have the numbers changed for Columbia, please?

Your prior post:

Columbia
Dem Rep
19,374 10,737
K/E B/C
8,029 19,374

This post:

Columbia
Rep Dem
10,737 19,374
16,753 8,029

Is there a correction to the 19,374 voting for B/C, being changed now to 16,753? Any other corrections I need to make? I've already emailed this wrong info to friends.

Thanks.

[Tony_FLADEM]

16. I double checked after I read your message, I made a mistake

before. I apologize.

[flowomo]

19. official list link is below

[DoYouEverWonder]

15. Which counties in that list

were also hit hard by the hurricanes?

The people that are in counties that were hit hard are really po'd at the government right now.

This isn't being reported in the press, but people who lost their homes are dealing with up to 10 different government agencies & insurance companies and are getting nowhere with anyone. Jeb promised to find housing for everyone who was misplaced by the storm by Thanksgiving. You don't think these people aren't pissed?

My point is that in these counties you would expect a trend toward DEMS and against Bush because people are blaming Bush and Jeb at this point.

Also, look at Alachua County, which is a Democratic stronghold. There is no way that that many DEMS crossed over and voted for Bush around here. No friggin' way. I live here. I went to the protests and the rallies. There was very little support for Bush in this town. If that happened, REPS on the ticket for local elections may not have won, but they would have faired much better.

[BOHICA06]

17. DeSoto, Hardee, Hendry, Osceola, & Okeechobee ... eom

[flowomo]

18. If you want to check the official Fla county numbers for yourself:

http://enight.dos.state.fl.us/

click the President link on the left and get a new page, and then click the "President and Vice President of the United States link" above the statewide totals to get a new page with county by county results

[leyton]

20. How did these counties vote in 1992 and 1996?

I'd forget about 2000, since that was stolen too. But in 1992, Bush pere actually did carry Florida, so it's a comparable election.

[kerry2win]

21. 55% d 26% r 19% in avg all 52 counties op/scan

bush won that by 500,000 how???

[BOHICA06]

22. Read the thread ......

"d" does not mean "D"

[demgrrrll]

23. They did not think Kerry would do as well as he did and they probably

thought if they were within a point they could mix it up and no one would notice and they were probably right under that scenario. They realized that they were losing in a landslide and had to do something quick and sloppy and hope for the best. That is one explanation. That would also explain the pundits and the people on right wing radio being frantic and then calming down, remember when Karl got off the phone called everyone and told them we have Ohio? These folks put the Corteleones to shame.

[m berst]

24. DU saves the Republicans a lot of work

Every time someone points out suspicious patterns in the election returns - the same patterns that election monitors watch for as warning signs, by the way - several DU-ers go into debunk mode.

"Yeah but how many Hostess cupcakes do they eat in Broward co. Hmmmm? Got you there!"

OF COURSE it could be true that people who are registered Dem voted Republican. That isn't the point.

- Results that are consistently mirrors of the registrations are too uniform - 7-1 registrations; 1-7 results

- The differences between the variance in one county and another depends on the type of machine.

Does this "prove" anything? Of course not. It doesn't need to. It IS however sufficient grounds - and then some - to warrant a full investigation, and that is the ONLY burden of proof that it could and that it needs to meet.

Do police investigators tracking a murderer need to have proof beyond a reasonable doubt that the suspect is guilty before questioning him or looking at any evidence? Of course not. If they did, no crime would ever be solved.

[JohnnyCougar]

25. These counties voted in similar fashions in 2000 and 1996

although not this extreme.

[Sara Beverley]

26. This election was stolen again, this time BIG TIME!!

And they knew they had demoralized the Dems and that Kerry wouldn't fight. Sorry to say, but they have us pegged. Unless we adopt the methods and tenacity of the civil rights movement of the 60's, we will just turn this country over to the neocons and evangelicals.

[progressivebydesign]

29. Do you have those numbers for us?? Or a link?

I remember the moment, on this election night, when the media breathlessly reported that Jeb had called George to tell him that 'counties that were previously GORE counties, were ALL going to Bush this time'. I'd like to know about that, in particular. Which counties went to Gore last time, and then supposedly switched to Bush THIS time... Do you have facts and figures for us??

[JohnnyCougar]

32. here

Actual votes:

Baker: Dem/Rep
2000 - 5610/2392
2004 - 7738/2180

Bradford:
2000 - 5413/3072
2004 - 7553/3244

Calhoun:
2000 - 2873/2155
2004 - 3780/2116

Columbia:
2000 - 10,964/7047
2004 - 16,753/8029

Dixie:
2000 - 2698/1825
2004 - 4433/1959

Hardee:
2000 - 3764/2341
2004 - 5047/2148

Holmes:
2000 - 4985/2154
2004 - 6410/1810

etc....

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2000/results/FL/frameset.exclude.html

We see that this is normal behavior for these counties. While it looks like people really turned out for Bush this time around, Dem voters didn't much show up more than usual. Now one can be suspicious of the high turnout numbers by Republicans. but by no means is this kind of turnout absurd. Surely we can't say the numbers were flipped. We must look elsewhere to find the fraud.

[m berst]

33. understood

This of course, is not, as I said, proof positive of anything, nor does it need to be. No crime is ever solved by casually glancing at the first piece of evidence regardless of who presents it or how they explain it.

The main point though is that the burden of proof is not on the people. The burden of proof is on the officials.

The other problem is that by nitpicking every post or attacking every bit of evidence in isolation from the whole, we risk missing the forest for the trees.

With all of the updating of registrations in Florida, would it not be reasonable to expect LESS variation and not more than in 2000?

But of course we need to look at past voting patterns and other data. To get that data in the right hands though, we need only to raise suspicion. If we invalidate each suspicion because it isn't final proof, then the truth can never be arrived at.

The Green Party, Nader and Congressmen Conyers, Nadler and Wexler are all cally for one simple thing - a complete investigation of this election.

I can see no sane reason why any DU-er or any Democrat would refuse to support them in this call. If we all do get behind it, it will happen and the truth will come out. I wasn't expecting Fladem to solve the crime here on his (her) own, nor should anyone else. The goal is to gain support for an investigation, in the words of David Cobb:

"Pure and simple: there needs to be an investigation"

“It’s Florida all over again. Except this time, it’s Ohio where the person responsible for counting votes is chair of the state Bush campaign. Once again there are widespread reports of intimidation, mis-marked ballots and the targeted disenfranchisement of African American voters. It’s very possible the election has been stolen for the second time in a row and again the Democrats have conceded rather than standing up for the right to vote and the right for people’s votes to count,” said Cobb.

http://www.votecobb.org/news1/document.2004-11-05.8107345760

on edit - spelling

[JohnnyCougar]

34. I agree wholeheartedly with everything you said

I just think it's important not to go around half-cocked, because if all our facts are not as straight as can be, we will be reviled as lunatics.

Some people on here had been suggesting that the votes got reversed and such. This is obviously not true. What we do see here is a massive increase in Republican votes for president in these areas. Whether these votes came from the Rethug GOTV machine of from thin air is what we have to figure out.

[m berst]

35. you made my night jc

We are a long way from knowing the whole story. My worry though is that if the public is apathetic or dismissive that we never WILL know the truth.

No one should object to verifying and validating an election in a democracy. No one. That is all we need to say.

If the shoe were on the other foot, and the Republicans had seen even 10% of what we are seeing, they would have an army of people out screaming 24 hours a day about it on every media outlet in the country.

[progressivebydesign]

27. I'd love additional info.. as in WHICH were NEW demo registrations..

I think that would be quite helpful in all this. Who would specifically register as a Democrat this time, then vote for Bush? That would be interesting... indeed.

[theboss]

28. Are those Democrats or Dixiecrats?

There are still a lot of registered Democrats all over the south who wouldn't vote for a modern Dem if you put a gun to their head.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

30. I called the Dem leader in Baker to ask about it....

She told me that the Dems there often vote Republican for the national races and that they are all Pentecostal and Conservative Baptists there so they were all bent out of shape about the gay marriage thing and that they liked Bush becasue he was a Churchgoer.

They are apparently "old-time Dems" who vote Dem for everything else. I think they voted for Clinton and Carter also.

I asked her if personally knew any Dems who had voted for Bush - and she told me "Yes - several."

Interestingly, she thought Hillary could win there. She thought a lot of the women would vote for her....

I still think it's worth looking into fraud though. I wouldn't exactly call my "research" a full-fledged investigation... lol!

[LTRS]

36. That's right - they basically just flipped the votes

Every vote for Kerry was recorded as a vote for Bush, and every vote for Bush was recorded for Kerry. It amazes me that no one is down there right now looking at this - or are they?

[DeepModem Mom]

37. kick