I Think That I Owe An Apology To Gay/Lesbian DU'ers

[MarianJack]

A few weeks ago, there was a thread about the last accepted prejudice. In my response, I said that one thing that distressed me was the fact that since **'s "mandate", the number of acceptable prejudices has INCREASED. I also suggested age as a prejudice since I (who will be 50 in June), have gone through absolute HELL in my now 20 month long search for a decent job and that i was considering taking dates off of my resume and dying my hair for the first time in my life (I've been gray since my 20's). I've done both, although the dye is actually Grecian Formula, which just reduces the gray, not eliminates it.

Where I've come to believe that I owe you an apology is in my personalizing prejudice to my own situation. My wife and I are watching with absolute horror and dismay at the hatred and venom you are being subjected to by hatemongers who think they are Christians and use Jesus' teachings to justify themselves. We are reminded of the treatment of African Americans in the days before the civil rights movement. The major difference is that in the 50's and 60's, the news media shined a light on the conduct of whites who turned dogs and fire hoses on civil rights workers. Today's media just accepts the bile directed to you with NO QUESTION OR REMARK.

I am sincerely sorry that I haven't, until now, realized just how bad things are for you now. I never thought that we would have a press that allowed the fringe right to use cartoon characters to preach hatred of a whole segment of our society because of who they love without making them out to be the laughing stocks they deserve to be.

In our own small way, my wife and I are working against the fundies. We teach our son respect and acceptance for all and we have e-mailed PBS over their spineless acquiescence to the religious right by shelving a cartoon! We also confront homophobia and bigotry wherever we see it. This is not much, but we believe that the worst sin is silence.

Anyway, I apologise, sincerely and heartfelt, for being somewhat insensitive.

[BR_Parkway]

1. Well, thank you, I 'm sure you didn't mean it - to be honest, I didn't

realize just how bad things were for us right now. During the past 30 years I've sat back and watched things becoming more open and accepting - and pretty well took it all for granted.

The level of hate, hostility and open bigotry that seems to be swelling right now is getting pretty scary indeed.

[MarianJack]

19. It's Amazing How Fast Hatred Can Spread...

...when the news media doesn't give a damn about reporting it.

[Cuban_Liberal]

2. Apology accepted.

:pals:

[MarianJack]

20. Thanx, Cuban_Liberal,...

...and a big :pals: back at'cha!

[Dark]

3. Apology accepted.

Now give us a big hug

:hug:

[MarianJack]

21. Sure, Dark!

How 'bout 2? :hug: :hug:

[beyurslf]

4. Oh hon its all right. As long as we know you are on our side.

[MarianJack]

22. Gracias!

:pals:

[libnnc]

5. Wow, what a beautiful post

As a lesbian I really appreciate what you've said, but don't be so hard on yourselves. I'm just now (within the past year or so) realizing how dark a situation we're in.

I never imagined when I came out back in '89, that we'd be so marginalized today. I remember feeling so joyful and happy at the big LGBT March on Washington in '93--a million GLBTs and straight friends marching in fellowship for our rights and humanity...it seems so long ago.

You and your wife have nothing to apologize for, but it is wonderful that you are aware of the bile and hate that we're up against. Hey, it took me a while to realize what we're up against.

Thanks for your honesty and your willingness to see and comprehend what's happening. I've got a sinking feeling it may get worse before it gets better.

Keep an eye on the GLBT issues board and other related threads. There's bad news every day. Part of our reaction is recognizing reality. That's what you have done with your post. Rock on and thanks.

[MarianJack]

23. Recognizing Reality!

Wouldn't it be wonderful if we had news that embraced that as a concept?

My father taught me a great saying when I was a boy. I don't remember who said it but the saying is; All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good (people) men to stand by and do NOTHING.

I wish I could disagree with you about it getting worse before it gets better. It saddens me that I honestly can't. For my wife's and my part, we WILL NOT be silenced!

To you, libnnc, I can only say :headbang: :yourock: :thumbsup: and:hug: !

[lcooksey]

6. Hey, thanks

Thanks for the apology and the support. We can use all the straight folks willing to stand up to bigotry that we can get. Kick PBS' ass! :)

[MarianJack]

24. I Got a Response From Maine PBS!

The lady said that each station is free to make their own decision. We encouraged them to make a decision that reflected Maine's blue state views.

[Old and In the Way]

7. Well stated.

As a hetero, I totally agree with your points. It's about freedom of association. If this government/media can condone targeted hatred against one segment of our population, what's to stop them from coming after other segments.....like Democrats? If you don't like or feel uncomfortable, don't associate with gays or heterosexuals. But appreciate the freedom that is guaranteed in our Constitution - that this right is protected for all.

[MarianJack]

25. Yes, But the Fundies Can't Be Bothered...

...by anything as archaic as the U.S. CONSTITUTION!

BTW, Hi fellow Mainer! :hi:

[stevedeshazer]

8. That's great

I'm also married, straight, about to turn 50, have been un- and under-employed (26 months now, save four working as a temp), and we teach our son the same thing. You sound a lot like me.

Keep making a difference, and we will all be better off.

[MarianJack]

26. Good Luck Finding Work!

It's good to find like minds. That's one of the things I love about DU!

I tink that I'm about to get a nice offer this week. I hope something happens for you soon, too! :thumbsup:

[ultraist]

9. What a thoughtful and sincere post!

Thank you for that. All of us, should take the time to increase our awareness and take action as you and your wife are.

I admittedly, do not have the insight into gay issues that many do but it's not hard to spot the hateful oppressive ways of bigots these days, they are so blatant about it. These freakazoid conservative *religious* groups are so outrageous that I foresee a backlash on the horizon. We can only hope that it's sooner rather than later.

As a white hetero female, I will never know oppression in the way that many do but we all have a social responsibility to continue to learn and work for change.

[MarianJack]

27. We All have a Social Responsibility!

You're absolutely right, ultraist.

Sadly, one of the differences between now and the early Civil Rights movement is the willingness of the news media to give the hatemongers unchallenged access to the airways. I remember my parent's outrage in the early 60's at dogs and firehoses being turned on human beings exercising their constitutional rights. This is one of the things that turned many people towards support of the movement.

Wouldn't you love to hear ONE "journalist" say "I don't know a single gay or lesbian who acts in the way you describe them". I guess that that would be too much to ask of today's press. It might get in the way of reporting on Scott Peterson's bowell movements.

[Modem Butterfly]

10. Wow. I started that thread. I remember your post

I think you had a valid point, in that hatred and divisiveness have become more acceptable. But I agree that gays and lesbians have a very difficult, if not the most difficult time of it now. The number of deluded fools who believe that our nation was actually founded on homophobia seems to have increased. It's horrifying for a straight person to watch, I can't imagine what it must be like for someone to have to live it.

Gay and lesbian DUers: We will stand with you! We will fight beside you! And we will win together!

[MarianJack]

28. Your Last Sentence...

...says it PERFECTLY!

That which unites us on this board is MUCH greater than that which divides us!

[Behind the Aegis]

11. What a nice thing to read!

I wish more people would have an "awaking" like you. I am include my own, other gays, in that wish. I always welcome straight supports, but am dismayed at the number of gays who don't really see what is happening. You serve as an example to straights and gays! I wish my own parents would see what you see.

[MarianJack]

29. It Must be really tough out there in Oklahoma!

Remember, Behind the Aegis, at the very least you have a community here at DU where you are loved and respected! Take 2 :hug: :hug:

[Festivito]

12. Very nice, but note, Jesus never taught anything against gays.

Off the gay's toes on to the Christian's toes. Hmmm. I'm sure you mean well. You've shown a willingness to understand another group's problems, and I'm sure it's appreciated.

Many people, many on DU, are angry at religions and rightly so. Religions have been misused, and the misuse continues, and I support your effort to expose them and to bring those hateful people down. But, they are not all hateful. And, Jesus' teachings do not, anywhere, reflect what you said it reflects. I defy you to find it.

Biblical Paul speaks against gays and women's equality, but he also says that followers build churchrs on a foundation of Christ and individual churches may, for example, follow Jewish law while other may have pork roast dinners. So, when you say that Christ spoke against gays, I take exception to your saying that.

Money, intelligence, religions, and DU can be used for good things or bad things. Fight the bad side of each, but, be careful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Best of luck on the job search.

[MarianJack]

16. You May Have Misunderstood Me,Festivito.

I didn't, or at least I didn't intend to, say that Jesus taught against gays. The point I was trying to make (and possibly garbled) was that people who call themselves Christians are trying to wrap themselves in Jesus' teachings to justify their hatred.

My wife and I are Roman Catholics. In fact, my wife used to be a nun. We know that Jesus taught love and acceptance. I probably should have included in my thread a line that I used in my e-mail to PBS. In that e-mail I stated that, unlike the religious right fundies, we have read the gospels, rather than letting the falwells and robertsons of the world tell us what they say.

I had no intent to say that Jesus taught against gays. If you got that impression, please accept my apology and this clarification.

BTW, I think I'm about to get an offer by the end of this week.

Thanks for the feedback,
Jack

P.S. I'll be responding to everybody else after din-din. I never thought this thread would get soooo many responses!

[Ms. Toad]

35. You are absolutely correct,

but unfortunately many who call themselves Christian are stretching farther and farther to avoid the reality you have recited. Witness the letter to the editor in our local paper today:

<<Gay marriage is accepted, despite Christ's indirect criticism of homosexuality in Matthew 10:14-15 that is verified in Genesis 19:4-26 and Jude 1:5-7.>>

http://www.ohio.com/mld/ohio/news/editorial/letters/10794158.htm?1c

(About 2/3 of the way down the page under "the religion of liberalism")

For those who don't want to look up the references, the Matthew reference is about evangelizing and indicates that towns that will not listen to the disciples will be treated worse than Sodom and Gomorrah, the Genesis reference is the original story, and Jude notes that Sodom and Gomorrah and surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual perversion and are eternally damned.

Now that it is fairly universally known that Christ said nothing about homosexuality, folks like the author of this letter are stretching to find anything that can be used to support their continued assertion that Christ condemns homosexuality (the other explanation I heard recently was that because Jesus said nothing about homosexuality he intended old testament law to continue - that he only addressed when there needed to be a change in the law {although I do not generally agree with what these same folks would recite as old testament law - that is another topic}).

I do not label myself Christian, but I find that individuals who do generally fall into one of two categories - those whose personal spiritual experiences very close to my own (which I rarely find among folks who do not label themselves Christian), and those (like the LTE letter author) whose experiences and understanding of how God would have us live in the world are so completely foreign to me that it seems as if they are from another planet. Unfortunately, the second group is much louder.

I struggle with this dichotomy - when I see a cross jewelry, or know as one of the first things about a person that s/he defines him/herself as Christian my gut reaction (unfairly) is to look for the nearest door. I try to fight against this reaction because I also know it is this same group of people among which I am likely to find true spiritual kinship (and a whole host of other wonderful things). I am, unfortunately, not always successful - and am sure that when I am less than deliberate about what I say I lump vocal Christians together in not terribly pleasant categories.

[Bluebear]

13. Please, WE didn't even know how bad it was

One longs for the good old days when you were just made fun of. The way the false Christians are going, we'll be lucky if we're not in camps shortly. Your post was enormously thoughtful.

[MarianJack]

30. I Just Love Getting a "False Christian",...

...and doing 2 things to him/her.

1 Showing them that liberal Democrat Roman Catholic ME knows the Bible better than they do, and

2 Demanding that they cite 1 SINGLE GAY PERSON tht they personally know who is an example of the demonization that they put on them.

The silence can e deafening!

[donheld]

14. Very nice post

:toast:

[MarianJack]

31. Mucho Gracias

Have one on me! :toast:

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MarianJack]

32. No Bells,...

...but the college I attended, also in the 70's, was pretty accepting of the gay/lesbian lifestyle. The most homophobic thing I heard in my prety diverse circle of friends was that we were all personally straight and weren't attracted to members of our own sex.

To each his/her own!

[cally]

17. What cartoon did PBS cancel?

First, that's a great post. I'm hetero and I'm just realizing all the hatred and venum gays and lesbians face. I thought we were growing in tolerance, but I was wrong. Here's a :hug: to you and to my fellow DUers during this difficult time.

[MarianJack]

33. An Episode of "Postcards From Buster"...

...that featured a family with 2 moms.

Maine PBS may broadcast it. I've encouraged them to make a decision that reflects Maine's values. If they do, it will be shown up here!

[KnowerOfLogic]

18. Thanks. Things are really getting crazy now, so we are going to need

everyone on our side that we can get.

[MarianJack]

34. My Wife and I, KnowerOfLogic, Are on Your Side...

...and we WILL NOT be silenced! :headbang: