What is the most frightening to me is the "Brave New World" of the right.

[Liberal Veteran]

Where everyone is basically alike. Anything that doesn't fit the approved "dogma" is bad. Your role in life is on rails based on a few very simple equations. Step off those rails for one moment either by choice or by chance and you have no place in the New World as envisioned by the republicans.

Seems to me we have been down this road before. Where everyone is expected to conform to a set of principles they had no part in creating.

Last time they played this game, if you happened to not be Aryan, heterosexual, and Christian, you had no place in the order of things that "people who knew better" decided. They had the perfect ideal for how everyone should be.

Conform or be cast out.

And the right actually thinks they are proposing something new?

It's sad.

[Melynn]

1. What's frightening to me

is that right-wing nut cases are on the verge of legislating their "Brave New World" in to reality. These people have always been around but they have never been a real threat to the liberty of the nation. When Nixon and Reagan were in office the Democrats controlled Congress. Now they are in control of all government branches so they maybe finally achieve their goals.

Hang on. It's going to be a weird and scary four years.

[ClayZ]

2. Hang on to what?

They pulled the carpet right out from under us!

There is still hope for charges of Crimes against Humanity. No?

[ramadoss]

3. Can't pull it off

I don't believe they could fully pull that off. To do it they would have to basically void parts of the constitution and become a dictatorship. That is not gonna happen anytime soon. Any small things they may gain can always be undone.

[Nihil]

4. One well-timed and well-placed "terrorist" attack will do it.

> ... they would have to basically void parts of the constitution ...

Like the P.A.T.R.I.O.T. act did after the previous "terrorist" attack?

> ... and become a dictatorship. That is not gonna happen anytime soon.

Oh don't worry, the changes will just be "temporary" - just for the
duration of the emergency - and then everything will be back to normal
again ... or so it will be claimed ...

> Any small things they may gain can always be undone.

1) Their gains will not be 'small things'.
2) The timescale for undoing will not be short.

Check back through history: how often after tightening their grip on
power did the same group loosen the grip again?

> I don't believe they could fully pull that off.

That is precisely how they can pull it off. They have successfully
brainwashed enough people to believe that they are right, that they
are above criticism and that doubters are simply disloyal rabble-rousers.

That is how they will pull it off: with the approval (vocal or tacit)
of the majority of the people. Before it gets to the state where the
questions start to arise in the minds of many citizens, the round-ups
of "traitors" and "dissenters" will remove the main resistance and
cow the rest into submission.

Nihil

[ramadoss]

5. You underestimate

the people of this country. I do not think a majority of the people, even full blown Bush supporters would allow our country to become a dictatorship. Our elected representatives would also not allow this to happen. Temporary martial law would be just that, temporary. Any unnecessary extension of this will not be taken lightly by anyone.

[KG]

7. You underestimate the evil of the RWers running things right now

and display very little understanding about power.

why do spend some much time here apolgising for the bush administration?

[ramadoss]

10. no apology

I am not supporting the Bush admin. I'm just stating things as I see them.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ramadoss]

13. How is

believing in the people of my country apoligising for or justifying the actions of Bush and Co.?

[Just Me]

8. We are already under the thumb of a corporate tyranny.

Any imposition of martial law would throw this country into total chaos which is exactly what the corrupt power-mongering neoCONspirators want to impose a "new & improved" order on us and the rest of the world.

I think you underestimate just how radical these people are.

They have already committed a fraud against our people. They have waged a war of aggression rather than protection. They are bleeding the nation economically to death. They are imposing a predatory view of humanity.

[Nihil]

9. No, I observe.

I have seen how the majority of the people allowed Bush to take power in 2000.

I have seen how the majority of the people allowed Bush to keep power in 2004.

I have seen how the majority of the people have given a free pass to all
of the "interesting coincidences" on, preceding and in 'response' to
September 11th 2001.

I have seen how the majority of the people have not questioned the
received 'truth' that trickle out between the adverts & the propaganda,
have not (in most cases) even realised how uninformed they are and
have shown no interest in educating themselves when the reality of
the situation has been presented.

I have seen all of this and more.

Do you think that this majority will suddenly change their ways?
That they will regain the "Sapiens" part of the name of their species?
That they will suddenly acquire the wisdom to first perceive then
challenge injustice, to risk loss for the sake of dissent and to
stand alone rather than simply cheer (or join) the mob?

> Temporary martial law would be just that, temporary. Any unnecessary
> extension of this will not be taken lightly by anyone.

Personally I find it frightening that you so calmly accept the "need"
for martial law. I don't find it surprising that such a view is held,
just worrying.

Temporary martial law will be stated to last as long as the emergency
lasts. Unfortunately, seeing as how the emergency will have been
generated to order, the need for it will also continue to order.
While this "temporary" state of control is in place, all manner of
repressions and more permanent changes will ensure that there will be
no danger of freedom once the original 'martial law' is lifted.

Nihil

[ramadoss]

11. there is still a difference

Support for a person is not the same as support for your country and all the beliefs it was founded on and stands for today. All those right wing rednecks would turn on Bush in a second if he tried to take that away. They are patriotic, they support their country first and foremost. Many of them support Bush just because he is the leader of the country. If he steps out of line and tries to pull some shit, I guarantee that loyalty to country will come before loyalty to man.

[Nihil]

16. In theory? Perhaps. In practice? I doubt it.

> Support for a person is not the same as support for your country ...

True or Bush would not have been re-elected.

> ... and all the beliefs it was founded on and stands for today.

That would be an interesting (though academic) exercise: determining
which of the founding beliefs are still extant in everyday US life.
It should be the subject of a different thread though so I'll drop it.

> All those right wing rednecks would turn on Bush in a second if he
> tried to take that away.

Only if Bush did so in a clumsy and overt manner that would be obvious
to even the most dedicated rightwinger. Whilst Bush may be stupid
enough to do such a thing, his minders would make sure that all
necessary changes were introduced in an appropriate manner. Their
jobs (even their lives) would depend on their behaviour, not Bush's.

> They are patriotic, they support their country first and foremost.

They are naive and believe whatever they have been told to believe.

If they are led to believe that "Action A" is necessary to protect
the country, they will go long with "Action A", regardless of how
much it goes against the law, Constitution or their personal belief.

There is a proverb regarding how to boil a frog. That is how the
fundamental changes will be made: a little bit at a time so that the
discomfort is not sufficient to raise alarm signals.

> I guarantee that loyalty to country will come before loyalty to man

You have a genuine faith in the values of your fellow countrymen.
I think we will have to "agree to disagree" as to whether that faith
is justified or misplaced.

Peace.

Nihil

[KG]

6. please stop apoligising for the RWers.

most unseemly.

[sweetheart]

14. America is a great house, filled with rats.

I can hear them gnawing on the constitution at night, and then every
day, their shit and filth is spread all over the place, whilst they
hide away from responsibility.

They are ignorant filth, and one must develop positive dissonance to
deal with them. When confronted by one of thier ilk, practice in the
mirror, smile genuinely and say "Praise jesus.". "God willing", "God
help us all", "Gawd blezz amurika". and then go about your business.
These rats are nothing if not shallow.

Then amongst ones own, we can plan to fumigate the house of the vermin.

[ramadoss]

15. While reading this

I couldn't help but picture you as a deranged preacher standing in front of a crowd, arms waving and fists slamming on the podium.

Nothing against you, that's just how it sounded in my mind while reading it.

[sweetheart]

17. yes "positive dissonance"

Make up your own psychotic right-wing television chat show character,
and practice being "in character". Jesus zealot by appearance,
underground writer by objective. They push their official mono-culture
to this point, so, heck, why not have some fun with it. If you're
around real friends, and you have to go in to character, everyone gets
a good laugh afterwards. :-)