The Democrats' brewing civil war

[Iris]

From Salon.com:

"News & Politics

The Democrats' brewing civil war
By Michelle Goldberg

Deans, Greens and liberals say the party needs to scream the anti-Bush truth at the American people. New-Democratic centrists say Americans just aren't that left-leaning. The schism is wide, and it's going to get wider"


I've been wondering about whether Americans are "left-leaing" or not. Could it possibly be that the words "left" and "liberal" have been so maligned by the right that they basically cause gut reactions from people? If you asked most people about progressive political ideas without using the terms "left" and "liberal" and, now, sadly, to some extent "progressive," would the average person really be opposed to those ideas?

I can't think of a particular example right now because I'm feeling a little brain dead today.

The full article is at salon.com

[ChrisNYC]

1. I posted this in Articles & Editorials...

But obviously not as many people make it over there. I thought it was a very interesting article though, and maybe at least convinced me the DLC wasn't evil, just misguided.

[LoZoccolo]

2. If someone doesn't position themselves against Bush...

...why is there any reason to vote for that someone? I don't get it. What do all these anti-Deans think we should be doing instead?

[loyalsister]

3. I've got one----

We DEFINITELY need to reclaim language.
It's unfortunate that "Liberal" and "Conservative" have become classification labels.
It causes a great deal of confusion, because I really think many people use those words to describe their positions on a spectrum of a given position with "conservative" right in the middle.
I have worked on a couple of campaigns, and going door to door, I discovered that many many people believe in progressive ideals on a "conservative" level. Meaning, they think these things are a good idea, but they aren't ready to carry signs, and it is always possible that they may prefer a different idea in the future.

Back to the spectrum...with "conservative" right in the middle.
Oddly enough, if liberal is the opposite, whether left or right, liberal just means more of it. It is a question of degree on EITHER SIDE of a position.
For example, consider that * is being VERY VERY "LIBERAL" in his spending.
So, I think we desparately need to reform this language!

Being more liberal JUST means being more attached to an idea. Whether it was on the right side or the left side.

We are PROGRESSIVES along a spectrum from conservative to liberal. (right to left).
AND, the self-proclaimed WINGNUT "conservatives" are not conservatives at all. They are actually "LIBERAL" right wingers.

They've hijacked the language. People prefer to be called conservative when the are really what has been labelled as liberal. This is difficult to repair, but Howard Dean has started it. He SAID it He said that Bush was making language meaningless by calling himself a conservative. Think about it....

How do we work this? What would be a better name for what used to be called conservatives?

[inthecorneroverhere]

4. language usage

'Liberal' as a word is more appropriate for the campaign of a Libertarian who argues for completely non-regulated markets. In Britain, 'liberals' are more free-market than are the Tories (Conservatives).

Dems need to use some of the common words in use now, just a bit differently.

Dems need to use "fiscal conservative" to describe themselves when talking about balancing the budget.

Remember: Clinton had a surplus. *Shrub is running gigantic deficits, as did *shrub_32 and Reagan.

Example: "A true patriot protects American jobs and is a fiscal conservative while ensuring that America's health care needs do not go unmet. I will work to balance the budget to ensure the future of America."

This means:
1) I support legislation that protects American workers and their jobs
2) I will work to balance the Federal budget, and I know this has to do with protecting the future of both the elderly and of children who will grow up in the next 20 years.
3) I propose to do something about the health care system and the skyrocketing costs

:dem:

[ferg]

5. "fiscally responsible"

Or, better yet, "fiscally liberal". :-)

"fiscally conservative" now means blowing huge deficits to pay for tax cuts for the rich.

[GreenArrow]

6. Select Smart test

This online "presidential candidate selector" test has been posted several times lately. It's been interesting to note that most people's test choices have leaned towards Kucinch, the Green Party, and generally the most liberal choices, while the candidates they espouse on the board tend to rank lower. More Americans have more liberal ideas than they realize, but they have been infected by sloganeering, IMO.

http://selectsmart.com/PRESIDENT/

on edit: added link to select smart test